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A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET Post-Release

post #1 of 193
4/29/10 at 4:01am
Thread Starter 
Better than Friday the 13th, but it's a perfect mirror of all that film's successes and failures.

-An excellent villain that might be the best of the series.
-A group of decent actors who have nothing to do.
-A tone that's deadly serious coupled with major pacing issues.

It looks like a Platinum Dunes film and it sounds like a Platinum Dunes film (as usual, Jablonsky's score is nothing more than background noise; the Bernstein theme shows up long enough to get one string in over the title card, then that's that). Your opinion of it will likely depend on what you think of the series in general.

If you like Elm Street, this is probably the 4th best film in the series. If you weren't a fan before, stay away.

Remember how they said Freddy wouldn't crack silly one liners?

"How's this for a wet dream?" Yeah, they brought a line back from the Renny Harlin Nightmare sequel.
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post #2 of 193
4/29/10 at 4:16am
Is it better than Friday the 13th Part 2?

ETA - This
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post #3 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:41am
Yeah, no. This is the worst film of the year. All the major beats from the original are redone terribly, there are no characters, and the best part of the movie is that in flashbacks Krueger has Michael Bay hair. There is nothing good here, and the new stuff is unnecessary backstory for Freddy.
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post #4 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:14am
From my estimation, the more fan of the original(s) you are, the more you will dislike this. Which means I hated it. Whatever the faults of the first one, it had a low budget charm and good ideas. This has none of that (the only original concept of "micro naps" is both undercooked and overdone -- its like they broke through the sound barrier of bad scripting). Significantly worse than Freddy's Revenge, maybe equal with Freddy's Dead, but time has lessened that movie's terribleness for me.
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post #5 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:23am
It's too bad because this remake had the most potential.

It's also too bad that many a witless fucktard will go out and see it enabling the Fullers' to make more shitty remakes.
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post #6 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Yeah, no. This is the worst film of the year.
You see Furry Vengeance?
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post #7 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:57am
Ah, so much potential to expand the surreal dreamscapes, what with the tools available to modern filmmakers. Not this go around, I guess.
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post #8 of 193
4/29/10 at 7:06am
I liked their TCM remake, but the Friday remake made me angry, what a terrible film. I doubt I'll pay money to see this, but I might catch it on cable in a few years...
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post #9 of 193
4/29/10 at 7:23am
So I wonder, how long before horror fans finally turn on Platinum Dunes once and for all and see them for the snake oil selling tick on the bloated corpse of mainstream Hollywood horror films that they so obviously are? Surely the good will from the at-least-it-wasn't-awful TCM remake must be wearing off by now.

That said I guess, how many more sacred horror properties to PD have left to rape?
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post #10 of 193
4/29/10 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
That said I guess, how many more sacred horror properties to PD have left to rape?
Sacred? Have you seen those movies? Platinum Dunes stuff is at least better than a lot of those sequels.
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post #11 of 193
4/29/10 at 8:05am
I'll stay away from this one, then. At least in theaters. I'll watch eventually on TV I guess.
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post #12 of 193
4/29/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
So I wonder, how long before horror fans finally turn on Platinum Dunes once and for all and see them for the snake oil selling tick on the bloated corpse of mainstream Hollywood horror films that they so obviously are?
I think "horror fans" already have. It's the general public that generally don't give a shit.
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post #13 of 193
4/29/10 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

That said I guess, how many more sacred horror properties to PD have left to rape?
The Birds, Monster Squad, Big Momma's House
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post #14 of 193
4/29/10 at 12:21pm
Harry loved it.
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post #15 of 193
4/29/10 at 12:24pm
Harry loved a movie? Quelle surprise!
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post #16 of 193
4/29/10 at 12:25pm
Especially strange considering the producers and Haley were all at the screening with him.
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post #17 of 193
4/29/10 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
Harry loved it.
Well he's certainly not going to slam the film. That might might make it difficult for him to rub elbows with the cast, director and producers the next time PD has a film out. As much as Harry proclaims to love film the guy loves name-dropping the celebs he's "friends" with even more.
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post #18 of 193
4/29/10 at 12:59pm
Man, Harry's review is hilariously badly written.
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post #19 of 193
4/29/10 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

That said I guess, how many more sacred horror properties to PD have left to rape?
They had a Rosemary's Baby remake that thankfully fell through a couple of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to reboot Psycho into something that would make the Vandt version look like Bride of Frankenstein.
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post #20 of 193
4/29/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Yeah, no. This is the worst film of the year. All the major beats from the original are redone terribly, there are no characters, and the best part of the movie is that in flashbacks Krueger has Michael Bay hair. There is nothing good here, and the new stuff is unnecessary backstory for Freddy.
What's worse? This or Zombie's Halloween? Tell me this isn't worse than Halloween.

The Nightmare movies are hardly good films. The original is good fun at best. I can understand a big backlash for the Halloween and TCM remakes, as the originals are truly great, but as for NOES and F13, this is hardly sacrilege.
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post #21 of 193
4/29/10 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ritter View Post
The original is good fun at best.
So wrong.
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post #22 of 193
4/29/10 at 2:14pm
The concept of Freddy Krueger is great. The execution...not so much. The first Nightmare comes closest to getting it right.
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post #23 of 193
4/29/10 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ritter View Post
What's worse? This or Zombie's Halloween? Tell me this isn't worse than Halloween.
It's less what-the-fuck then Zombieween. It's boring and forgettable.
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post #24 of 193
4/29/10 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ritter View Post
The concept of Freddy Krueger is great. The execution...not so much. The third Nightmare comes closest to getting it right.
Fixed.
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post #25 of 193
4/29/10 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Yeah, no. This is the worst film of the year.
Not with Cop Out in the market, it's not.

My biggest issue with the new film is the complete lack of forward momentum. In Elm Street, Nancy is always proactive. She finds out what's happening, then she decides how she's going to kill Krueger. In this film, the characters trod from one location to the next with no real direction -- just the vague notion of "maybe we can find something to help us." Nancy doesn't even decide to pull Freddy into the real world until there are five-ish minutes left in the flick.
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post #26 of 193
4/29/10 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
It's less what-the-fuck then Zombieween. It's boring and forgettable.
They reshot a lot of the movie. Didn't you say you saw an earlier cut?
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post #27 of 193
4/29/10 at 3:50pm
Yeah, but nothing I'm hearing seems to support the notion that the reshoots fixed much.
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post #28 of 193
4/29/10 at 3:55pm
If push came to shove I would rather watch Rob Zombie's Halloween, because it is infinitely more interesting. This is a bad movie that misses the point of the original and mostly reminded me of Wes Craven's THEY.

One of the best scares/images in the original is when Freddy comes through the wall. In the original it was done spandex, and Freddy retreats. You can't tell if it's because of the cross on the wall, or because Nancy stirred. In the remake, it looks like an outtake from THE FRIGHTENERS, where it's all active but there's no real malice, but it's the same thing they did in the original but terrible. That's this whole movie.

Also, Freddy in the original, there was a sense that his kills were like the Toys in TOY STORY, that Freddy always killed people in ways that made it look like their or someone else's fault, which is why no one believes the kids. Here a kid in the middle of a jail cell explodes in front of his cellmate.
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post #29 of 193
4/29/10 at 4:21pm
I'm still not seeing a whole lot of talk about how Jackie Haley fares in this.
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post #30 of 193
4/29/10 at 4:58pm
I have no opinion on him in it, he's not bad, but there's just nothing there. For the most part he's in the make-up saying near one-liners. He looks gross, but it's a one note that gets reduced by being explained. The best thing that seems newish is that his Krueger often rubs his blades together to signal he's coming.

Oh hey, why would a pedophile have a knife-finger glove?
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post #31 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Here a kid in the middle of a jail cell explodes in front of his cellmate.
So I guess John Conner doesn't make it through the film. Explodes? That kinda takes away from any nuance the original had when the cops wouldn't believe the kids. How are they suppossed to explain that one away? 'That kid was part of the wrong crowd Nancy. Of course he ended up exploding.'
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post #32 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:02pm
A question: in the theatrical cut do they explain why Freddy hangs out in a boiler room? 'Cause I don't remember him abusing the kids in a boiler room in the cut I saw, so the boiler room imagery was really bugging me.

Did they keep the library scene? You know, the one where they find the book "Boiler Rooms In America". That was a great scene.
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post #33 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:07pm
Oh yeah, that's stupid. I didn't notice that book, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's still in there, unless it's a plot point then it's out.
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post #34 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:09pm
So there's no actual boiler room, right? Freddy just makes people dream of one --- for no good fucking reason. Just because that's what he did in the original series, and kids love boiler rooms.
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post #35 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:10pm
Will this be the movie that FINALLY gets Devin to realize/acknowledge that Brad Fuller and co. are the Tom Rothman of horror movie producers?

I was gonna go to the midnight show tonight - still may, but you guys aren't exactly encouraging me.
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post #36 of 193
4/29/10 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
You know, the one where they find the book "Boiler Rooms In America".
Bwa ha ha ha!!! Now I can't wait to see this.
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post #37 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
I have no opinion on him in it, he's not bad, but there's just nothing there. For the most part he's in the make-up saying near one-liners. He looks gross, but it's a one note that gets reduced by being explained. The best thing that seems newish is that his Krueger often rubs his blades together to signal he's coming.

Oh hey, why would a pedophile have a knife-finger glove?
The one interesting thing the trailers had was the idea that Freddy didn't actually molest or kill any kids, so what happens there?
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post #38 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:16pm
He did do it.
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post #39 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:16pm
He fucked them, specifically Nancy, and then he comes back for more. Conceptually that's okay but it doesn't play. Which has turned Nancy from a strong willful teenager to even more of a victim.
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post #40 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
The only time Freddy casts doubt on his existence in the first is when he hangs Rob, and at that time Nancy was in the dream and he knew she was coming. It's not a real point in Craven's film -- the very next kill has Johnny Depp geysering blood out of his bed. But I think it's unfair to criticize the remake for not acknowledging a point that really doesn't exist in the original.

What's actually troubling is that by giving Freddy a real connecction to the kids, you drop the adults from the story. Freddy hates the people who burned him -- the death of the children is just his way to punish them. By removing that, you cast people like Clancy Brown and give him nothing to do.

Freddy as written in this film is better than every incarnation of the character since 1984. Haley's great, it's just that the movie around him is stunningly bland.

No explanation for the boiler room, unless that warehouse was somehow supposed to be one.
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post #41 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:28pm
Wouldn't it have been more dramatic if I don't know Krueger was innocent?
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post #42 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:31pm
Freddy sets up Nick Corri's character as the murderer of the first girl, and then that character is hung, so the police don't investigate it as more than cause and effect, which causes the teenaged characters to not trust their parents who they talk to about it, but tell them they are dreaming. This isn't super awesome or whatever, but as a generational thing it works. The minute someone explodes from the inside while sleeping, you would think that people would want to investigate that and treat it seriously. But when scenes don't connect from one to the next in any way more than the trotting out of rehashed plot points.
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post #43 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
Freddy sets up Nick Corri's character as the murderer of the first girl, and then that character is hung, so the police don't investigate it as more than cause and effect, which causes the teenaged characters to not trust their parents who they talk to about it, but tell them they are dreaming. This isn't super awesome or whatever, but as a generational thing it works.
But it's not intentional, because Freddy wouldn't have know idea Rob had the switch blade. The only time Freddy actually sets something up to look like it's a suicide (or someone else is involved), is when Rob is hanged. And he only does that because he knows Nancy's peeking in the dream world and on her way to the police station. If he was trying to make it look like he didn't exist, he wouldn't have killed Glen as he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
The minute someone explodes from the inside while sleeping, you would think that people would want to investigate that and treat it seriously. But when scenes don't connect from one to the next in any way more than the trotting out of rehashed plot points.
With this, however, I fully agree. Nearly every connection to the original is wasted and could be cut out entirely. Freddy coming out of the wall? Tina/Kris in the body bag? They're all just there to play lip-service to the first. And Freddy coming out of the wall looks so terrible it makes the Freddy-pillar from FVJ look like it was rendered by ILM.
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post #44 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:49pm
I think the original NOES Freddy is cautious at the beginning in terms of his kills, or at least the filmmakers kill people in ways that could be perceived as not Freddy. That's not really a concern here. But I don't think Freddy hangs Rob if he doesn't want to avoid suspicion, but by the time he gets to Johnny Depp, it's third act escalation/boldness of the character.

And oh, god the ending of this film is so, so terrible.
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post #45 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:53pm
To be fair, it never made any sense that Freddy cast suspicion on Rob, except for the sake of fucking with him. It's not like the cops could arrest Freddy.
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post #46 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
And oh, god the ending of this film is so, so terrible.
It is, but it's also the only time the movie lets itself have fun. Was it horrible? Definitely. Did I laugh a bunch? Oh yeah.

At some point I'd like someone with more time than me to really break down how similar Friday '09 and Nightmare '10 are in terms of structure. Off the top of my head, there's the big teaser with "shocking" ending that leads to the title card (with the only real riff of the theme), the same tone, the same shot compositions, the same exact damn final shot, etc.
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post #47 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte View Post
I think the original NOES Freddy is cautious at the beginning in terms of his kills, or at least the filmmakers kill people in ways that could be perceived as not Freddy.
To be fair, there's only (if I recall correctly) 4 murders in the first film: Tina, Rod, Glen and Nancy's mom. Of those, Tina's death is made to appear as though Rod went to town on her with his switchblade. Rod's death is made to appear as though he hanged himself. Nancy's mom's death appears as though she fell asleep with a lit cigarette. So, yeah, Glen's death is the only one where we get full on later day Freddy destruction (i.e. trapping victims inside of their own water bed, etc.).
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post #48 of 193
4/29/10 at 6:57pm
Thread Starter 
How does Nancy's mom appear to fall asleep with a lit cigarette? Freddy literally chokes her to death on the bed, and two people see him do it.
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post #49 of 193
4/29/10 at 7:19pm
Aw, I was really intrigued by the idea that Krueger was wrongfully burned alive by the parents and he gets revenge on the kids for pointing fingers at him and making up stories.

After all the hooplah they made over making him a more sympathetic figure, I thought they'd go in that direction. I mean otherwise, just make him pure evil from the get go, but that would be "too much" like the original. Bwaha!

Either that or they would've made it so that he DID do it, but was unaware of it because he was possessed or had a split personality or something. Which would have explained nightmare Freddy. I mean it sounds stupid when you read it, but it was acted out really good in my head.
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post #50 of 193
4/29/10 at 7:22pm
The problem with that psyche out is that it never plays, because it doesn't change the audience's perception. At that point Freddy has been killing people, so he's a terrible figure of death. That he has a purpose for it changes no stakes, because you never get the sense that the characters are actively changing their goals in regards to this information. That's a really big terrible fuck up.
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