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Are You a Patriot?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
That's a loaded word for Americans. Of course - this thread was made for them.

Every sane American I've met has called themselves one. Especially the politically active ones, the ones who rant against, say, racism inherent in public institutions and otherwise - I guess because dissent is supposed to be an American quality. But while America has indeed had its share of great dissenters, I would think this is evidence that America is a shitty enough country to inspire some individuals to act against it.

It's damaging for certain parties to fight against each other, in hopes of earning the title of "patriot". Everybody loses - it's indefinable, and like the two-party system, it creates an arbitrary line in the sand between people, which will only reduce one's intelligence once it's been drawn. And despite Tea Party rhetoric, the term does support the status quo, especially in the example of the Tea Party's self-identified patriots.

Will no American break this taboo about not loving their country? The word patriot is all-encompassing. Even Bill Hicks would be quick to say he loved America, and I think George Carlin as well. But any thoughtful individual knows that America doesn't own any positive human traits unto itself.
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Will no American break this taboo about not loving their country? The word patriot is all-encompassing. Even Bill Hicks would be quick to say he loved America, and I think George Carlin as well. But any thoughtful individual knows that America doesn't own any positive human traits unto itself.
I think all people are patriotic to their countries in some way. I think the word patriotic has been made into an 'American' thing, which is narrow minded. I believe that you can be a patriot of your country, and still question its values and directions without 'denigrating' it in some way.

Thinking that America doesn't have any positive traits is pretty stupid actually. People tend to focus on the negatives (of which, I will admit, there are many) but the positives are still there.
post #3 of 14
America not having any positive traits? A bunch of rebels fighting the biggest empire for it's independence... It's ability to moblize and never back down from the Germans or Japanese.. To do whatever it takes and go againt the risks to put a few people on the moon. If you can't figure out any positive traits from that, I don't know what to tell ya.

But to say there are no positives in America is an insult.

Am I a patriot? No.. I've never risked or fsacrificed for my country
post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Of course people who live in America have done positive things. And because America is a state, these positive things have been done in spite of America. I know, it's easy to think, "What's the difference - you're talking about people who live in America who've done positive things. They're American" but the idea of what's American has always been changing. Obviously America doesn't own the concept of patriotism, but for the purposes of this thread, I'm picking on the world's current superpower.

MoonBaseNick: You never had anything to do with fighting Germans or the English.

The basic point I tried to make was that all the great things that residents of America have done was in spite of the state, as it is anywhere else.

Also, er, I should say: Being 'American' is meaningless in the way that mainstream America uses the term. The word is undefinable, and politicians only use it to manipulate voters.
post #5 of 14
I sit not as simple as being a patriot means you like your country and want the best for it, so naturally when people disagree on how the country should be run they assume that means the pother one isn't as patriotic, because people are dumb and can't be bothered examining other peoples point of views?
post #6 of 14
Of course there are positive traits associated with America. But this country was founded on utterly evil terms. No, I'm not talking about it's "founding values", but it's actual establishment -- America and what became America was founded on the enslavement of one race of the attempted genocide of another. What's seen as Germany's eternal black mark is where we started out... we sought the complete annihilation of the Native Americans simply because they lived where we wanted to. We enslaved every black person we could get our hands on so that we could live how we wanted to. This isn't ancient history, the effects of it are still felt today. We didn't commit these acts of our forefathers but we nonetheless inherit the responsibility to atone for them. Whatever good America does should be in an effort to live up to that responsibility.
post #7 of 14
I think it takes more patriotism to stand up and say what you think is wrong with your country than to say it can do no wrong. The original patriots everyone reveres so much became revered because they spoke out against their own country. Yet somehow now, doing that makes you unpatriotic.
post #8 of 14
I would just like to say that not only am I a proud American patriot, but I come from Massachusetts, one of the very few states in the union* that celebrate Patriots day. I've always found it the height of irony that the 'country first' crowd can't be bothered to celebrate Patriots Day

*I think Maine celebrates it too but they barely count because they used to be a part of Massachusetts anyway.
post #9 of 14
Of course, Boston celebrates Patriots Day by watching a bunch of Kenyans run faster than us.
post #10 of 14
I get what you're saying, DL, about the use of Pavliovian trigger words in domestic politics. The use of claims to patriotism as a wedge, in particular. I try to laugh at the way love of country inevitably fails to translate into love for one's fellow countrymen.

I imagine two seperate globules of nerve endings in the humain brain, one governing cooperative behavior as a survival mechanism, the other governing pecking order competition, each struggling with the other over a limited supply of nutrients and oxygen from the blood stream. The result is an animal who can't define itself unless it has something to oppose, who feels genuinely lost in the world without someone to look down on, but still manages to be part of aneurotic but functioning society. I think my brother's an asshole, me and my brother can agree that our cousin is even worse, and my cousin and I can toast over beers and thank God we're not the scumbag neighbor who lives down the street.
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post
I get what you're saying, DL, about the use of Pavliovian trigger words in domestic politics. The use of claims to patriotism as a wedge, in particular. I try to laugh at the way love of country inevitably fails to translate into love for one's fellow countrymen.
That's because a good deal of these super "patriots" are actually more akin to nationalists. Worse, too many are just plain nativist, with all the troubling irony that comes with.

Quite honestly, I don't regard very highly anyone who needs to exclaim out loud that he is a patriot. I subscribe to the credo of the Megaforce team...Deeds Not Words.
post #12 of 14
I'm the same way with people who make sure the first thing I learn about them is their religious affiliation. It just comes across like preemptive damage control, handing me the label you want me to apply to you.
post #13 of 14
I think far too many people in this world confuse 'patriotism' with 'nationalism' when they aren't the same thing. At All.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by soylentgreen View Post
That's because a good deal of these super "patriots" are actually more akin to nationalists. Worse, too many are just plain nativist, with all the troubling irony that comes with.

Quite honestly, I don't regard very highly anyone who needs to exclaim out loud that he is a patriot. I subscribe to the credo of the Megaforce team...Deeds Not Words.
This post made my day.
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