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Car bomb found in Times Square - Page 2

post #51 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
There's a real big logical fallacy going on here.


Comparing the Austin guy to the entire Tea Bag movement is like comparing Mohammed Atta to the entire Muslim population.

Just because one bad egg exists doesn't make the whole dozen spoil.

The tea bagger movement is vastly peaceful. Sure, they are loud, obnoxious, and sometimes racist, but you don't see tea bagger riots in the streets overturning cars either.

Just because one may share a viewpoint with others does not mean the "others" hold similar viewpoints to the "one."
I don't think parading around with weapons exposed is necessarily peaceful, but I grant you the point.

One bad egg doesn't make the whole dozen spoil, but the other 11 eggs had damned well better explain to me why they're not rotted.

That is to say: Islamist movements that don't want to be seen as accepting Salafist ideologies are expected to, and in fact of the matter must, be clear in denouncing those ideologies.

Tea Baggers are not successful in denouncing their relatives' ideologies when they show up on the National Mall bearing automatic weapons (on the anniversary of the OKC attack, no less).
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post #52 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:42pm
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't say the person here was a tea bagger, I do believe in letting the police investigate the crime, but nobody is saying that all tea baggers are terrorists (or even most are). What people are pointing out is that the movement is full of paranoid people who talk like they are anti-US government and actually would like to engage in an armed conflict against the federal government.

You do know this is the movement that welcomes people brandishing their guns at rallies and holding up "don't tread on me signs" right?
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post #53 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post

You do know this is the movement that welcomes people brandishing their guns at rallies and holding up "don't tread on me signs" right?
Yeah, which further begs the question...

If your goal is to overthrow the socialist negro and get all the greedy politicians out of office, is the best way to go about doing that parking some firecrackers next to a McDonald's in Times Square?

Anyway...

Quote:
Material found in a gun locker inside the Nissan Pathfinder was "non-explosive-grade fertilizer incapable of blowing up," Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne tells CNN. Still, the gasoline cans and propane tanks that also were in the vehicle "could have exploded with enough force to split the vehicle in two and produce a fireball," Browne said. The vehicle's contents were "capable of producing human casualties and broken windows," but did not have enough force "to take down a structure, in the opinion of NYPD bomb experts," Browne said.
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post #54 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post
I wouldn't say the person here was a tea bagger
Just to specify where we differ: I am saying that. No other profile fits. (OMG profiling!)
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post #55 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:47pm
I think the problem with the Tea Party movement is exactly what they think is their biggest strength. They have no cohesiveness. No leadership. No real legs to stand on other than platitudes.

I had a discussion with a Tea Partier awhile back on a similar topic. It went something kinda like this.

"So, what do you think about the racist signs at the rallies?"

"It doesn't matter to me. They don't represent me. I represent me."

"But, doesn't it seem kinda odd that you're at a rally with racist signs? I mean, isn't the reasonable observer gonna see you standing next to said sign and assume you agree with their viewpoint?"

"Nah, if they understood our cause, they'd know that we're a bunch of diverse people with one overarching agreement that our federal government spends too much money and taxes us and rich people way too much."

"But, shouldn't you stand up for the group and say no racist signs?"

"No, I believe in the freedom of speech. If they wanna be racist, let em."
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post #56 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
If your goal is to overthrow the socialist negro and get all the greedy politicians out of office, is the best way to go about doing that parking some firecrackers next to a McDonald's in Times Square?

Anyway...
Bad argument. That plan of attack will prove to be just as effective as ambushing a cops' funeral or flying a plane into an IRS building.
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post #57 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:48pm
I'd argue that the rhetoric of the Tea Baggers could embolden some of the loonier fringe elements. Some are probably blissfully unaware what their language is doing -- they think they're following in the footsteps of Thomas Paine or something -- but some probably know, or even hope, someone gets the nudge-nudge wink-wink behind words like "target the Democrats".
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post #58 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Bad argument. That plan of attack will prove to be just as effective as ambushing a cops' funeral or flying a plane into an IRS building.
I'm not convinced. There was no governmental involvement with the Times Square incident. Putting that car in the US Mint's parking lot? Then I'd agree with you.

The police funeral?

The Alfred Murrah Federal Building?

IRS Building?

A bomb outside of a Mickey D's sounds more like Islamic terrorism rather than White supremacist right wing terrorism.
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post #59 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
I think the problem with the Tea Party movement is exactly what they think is their biggest strength. They have no cohesiveness. No leadership. No real legs to stand on other than platitudes.
Good point. It doesn't take anything more to become a Tea Bagger than to say you are one.
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post #60 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I'd argue that the rhetoric of the Tea Baggers could embolden some of the loonier fringe elements. Some are probably blissfully unaware what their language is doing -- they think they're following in the footsteps of Thomas Paine or something -- but some probably know, or even hope, someone gets the nudge-nudge wink-wink behind words like "target the Democrats".
The editorial staff of the Dallas Morning News would claim that they were unaware printing fascist literature from the John Birch Society in the A section of their newspaper the morning Kennedy was killed would have any effect.

Fuck them.
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post #61 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
I'm not convinced. There was no governmental involvement with the Times Square incident. Putting that car in the US Mint's parking lot? Then I'd agree with you.

The police funeral?

The Alfred Murrah Federal Building?

IRS Building?

A bomb outside of a Mickey D's sounds more like Islamic terrorism rather than White supremacist right wing terrorism.
Seeing how, as quoted above, the "bomb" didn't have the potential to do anything more than make a big fireball, it sounds like some yahoo who didn't know what they were doing. I hate to say it, but Islamic terrorists would have made that shit work.
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post #62 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Bad argument. That plan of attack will prove to be just as effective as ambushing a cops' funeral or flying a plane into an IRS building.
Effective how?


Per my earlier post, both of those instances could not be mistaken for anything else besides attacks against the government directly.

ETA: And again, for the love of Jebus, I'm not saying it couldn't have been a tea bagger. I'm saying that if it was, it makes absolutely no sense in the grand scheme of the tea party agenda.
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post #63 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
A bomb outside of a Mickey D's sounds more like Islamic terrorism rather than White supremacist right wing terrorism.
Except for the middle-aged white guy who (allegedly!) set the bomb?
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post #64 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Effective how?


Per my earlier post, both of those instances could not be mistaken for anything else besides attacks against the government directly.
Times Square is just as important a representation of the U.S. government as the World Trade Center: that is, neither one of them a direct relationship, but they are both representative of American (governmental) strength.
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post #65 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Good point. It doesn't take anything more to become a Tea Bagger than to say you are one.
They can never be a political party because they lack the structure to organize. They might claim that's their strength, but with the odds incredibly stacked against them in law and in practice, there's no way they can sustain popularity and strength without a cohesive party identification.
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post #66 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:54pm
Besides, they'd never be able to agree on a party platform, since each one you talk to seems to have a different misguided belief than the next one.
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post #67 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Times Square is just as important a representation of the U.S. government as the World Trade Center: that is, neither one of them a direct relationship, but they are both representative of American (governmental) strength.


I'll give you your kudos if you end up being correct, but that's a mean stretch there.
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post #68 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:57pm
How is that a stretch? Times Square is one of the most recognizable symbols of the United States in the world, and it's the cultural center* of Jew York, that fag-loving baby-killin, gun-controllin' smoke free Sodom and Gommorah where women don't know their place to a lot of these people.

*In the public imagination.
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post #69 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:58pm
It's more a cultural symbol than a governmental or economic one, but that doesn't make it any less of a viable target.
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post #70 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:59pm
What? That Times Square is just as important to America's self-image as the WTC?

Or are you saying the attack didn't originate from a white middle-aged tea-bagger? Maybe it was a white, middle-aged Hamas affiliate. If so, I apologize. I am jumping to conclusions in advance, and I will look foolish.

But I have wondered aloud for a while now: how will we react to the next terrorist attack, should it come from a (white, right-wing, fat) American?

Vacillating and dancing around the issue would both be high on my list of possible reactions.
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post #71 of 235
5/2/10 at 11:59pm
I deleted this post.
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post #72 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
If I was a crazed lunatic and wanted to blow up something government in New York, Times Square wouldn't even be on my radar.

Ellis Island? Show those immigrants who's boss!

Statue of Liberty? Fucking French!

City Hall? Can't smoke cigs in bars!
Be sure to couch your hypotheticals a bit more hypothetically, Pomp, or the FBI's Carnivore will track you down quick.
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post #73 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:02am
Astounding.
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post #74 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
What? That Times Square is just as important to America's self-image as the WTC?
As a representation of the US Government (which is what you said), yeah I don't see it that way. But then again I'm not big on New York as a whole, so maybe my hatred of overcrowded streets is clouding the issue.
Quote:
Or are you saying the attack didn't originate from a white middle-aged tea-bagger?
For the umpteenth time, I'm in no way saying it didn't. Im saying that if it did, it doesnt really make sense.

But that brings up another question...is it safe to assume that as long as the culprit is white he will be branded as a tea bagger, whether its true or not?
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post #75 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Be sure to couch your hypotheticals a bit more hypothetically, Pomp, or the FBI's Carnivore will track you down quick.
Yes, thus the kidding at the bottom.
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post #76 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
But that brings up another question...is it safe to assume that as long as the culprit is white he will be branded as a tea bagger, whether its true or not?
Unless he's some hitherto undiscovered brand of American Commie? Probably, yes.
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post #77 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
Yes, thus the kidding at the bottom.
You gotta kid up top too, hoss. I'm telling you, governmental overreach doesn't have time for humorous addendums.
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post #78 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Unless he's some hitherto undiscovered brand of American Commie? Probably, yes.
Awesome. In the hopes of saving face, I'm going to see if I can bribe one of my black Ron Paul supporting friends to taking the blame for this.
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post #79 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:08am
We're all just speculating here, but if I was a would-be fertilizer bomber who couldn't be bothered to research which type type of fertilizer to use, I can imagine the same lack of know-how and can-do attitude could extend to my target selection. He could have thought he was sticking it to Pakistani cab drivers, Hasidic diamond merchants, greedy fat-cat bankers, or just "liberals" in general. His ex-wife might work at the fast food dive where he parked the vehicle. I'm as curious as anyone to see what the story turns out to be when this imbecile is caught.
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post #80 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Awesome. In the hopes of saving face, I'm going to see if I can bribe one of my black Ron Paul supporting friends to taking the blame for this.
I think I have a stock photo of that guy.
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post #81 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post
We're all just speculating here, but if I was a would-be fertilizer bomber who couldn't be bothered to research which type type of fertilizer to use, I can imagine the same lack of know-how and can-do attitude could extend to my target selection. He could have thought he was sticking it to Pakistani cab drivers, Hasidic diamond merchants, greedy fat-cat bankers, or just "liberals" in general. His ex-wife might work at the fast food dive where he parked the vehicle. I'm as curious as anyone to see what the story turns out to be when this imbecile is caught.
As am I.
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post #82 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:11am
Maybe I'm wrong and freely admit that I could be but wouldn't something like this play right in to the extreme right wing belief that a Democrat can't keep America safe? What's to stop them from initiating said proof?
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post #83 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
Maybe I'm wrong and freely admit that I could be but wouldn't something like this play right in to the extreme right wing belief that a Democrat can't keep America safe? What's to stop them from initiating said proof?
Well... they did try this with the underwear bomber incident.
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post #84 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I think I have a stock photo of that guy.
You'd have to place him in New York at the time of the incident though.

As a black fasco-racist working in the greedy underbelly of the country (Wall St) I have a whole rolodex of free market supporting black folks I can call upon. More than a few live and work in New York.

Numbers > stock photo.
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post #85 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
You'd have to place him in New York at the time of the incident though.

As a black fasco-racist working in the greedy underbelly of the country (Wall St) I have a whole rolodex of free market supporting black folks I can call upon. More than a few live and work in New York.

Numbers > stock photo.
Holy shit, you're black?

For the record, I was referring to this guy, who I must have seen in at least 20 different publications:

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post #86 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
Holy shit, you're black?
I hope this isn't unacceptably racist. It's kind of like finding out someone who you have sort of known for a while is a Christian Scientist or plays Magic: The Gathering.

I don't know any white people who work on Wall Street either, for what it's worth. I would be surprised regardless!
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post #87 of 235
5/3/10 at 12:57am
Err, wasn't the bomb outside the Viacom building. Isn't Viacom the source of some of the Lamestream Media Elites?
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post #88 of 235
5/3/10 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post
We're all just speculating here, but if I was a would-be fertilizer bomber who couldn't be bothered to research which type type of fertilizer to use, I can imagine the same lack of know-how and can-do attitude could extend to my target selection. He could have thought he was sticking it to Pakistani cab drivers, Hasidic diamond merchants, greedy fat-cat bankers, or just "liberals" in general. His ex-wife might work at the fast food dive where he parked the vehicle. I'm as curious as anyone to see what the story turns out to be when this imbecile is caught.
If they find a note claiming responsibility for the attempted bombing and it's full of mis-spellings, well that's it for the Tea Baggers.
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post #89 of 235
5/3/10 at 1:11am
Wait, if the target is the Viacom building, we are looking at the wrong group of fat, middle-aged, white guys.

Was the Nissan modified to look like a shuttlecraft, and was there a Bring Back Kirk sticker on the bumper?
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post #90 of 235
5/3/10 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
Well... they did try this with the underwear bomber incident.
Well, with the underwear bomber the State Dept (read: Obama admin) OK'd him to get on the plane so they could track down his terrorist cell. Oppppssssss
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post #91 of 235
5/3/10 at 1:51am
Why would Tea Baggers ONLY target government buildings? The Tea Party is made up of racist, homophobic, religious extremists. While Times Square is greatly cleaned up, it remains a symbol of the modern godless fag and Jew system.

Also, any real governmental target in NYC would be impossible to hit. Even a guy who didn't understand how to make his fertilizer explosive would get that.

Now, I don't know that this guy is a Tea Bagger. He probably isn't, as much as I would love him to be one so that the entire movement could be put on watch lists, but the lack of a government target isn't that big of a deal.
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post #92 of 235
5/3/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I hope this isn't unacceptably racist. It's kind of like finding out someone who you have sort of known for a while is a Christian Scientist or plays Magic: The Gathering.

I don't know any white people who work on Wall Street either, for what it's worth. I would be surprised regardless!
Why would I consider you asking my ethnicity to be racist?

As far as that photo is concerned, I don't recognize his neck but I'll put some feelers out there and see what my brethren and I can come up with.

I'm glad were working together on this, Zhukov.
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post #93 of 235
5/3/10 at 9:19am
In other news...

Possible video of the suspect.
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post #94 of 235
5/3/10 at 11:47am
I just wanted to say that just because the bomb was apparently pretty MacGyver does not mean that it was tea baggers, it could have been a wannabe Jihadi
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post #95 of 235
5/3/10 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post
If they find a note claiming responsibility for the attempted bombing and it's full of mis-spellings, well that's it for the Tea Baggers.
Yeah, like we haven't seen that faked already.
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post #96 of 235
5/3/10 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Closer View Post
Oh, dear god, it's a guy taking off his shirt to reveal (dunh, dunh, dunnnnnnnh) another shirt. What a sick fucking human being! And then, he turns in a similar direction to wear the vehicle is....disgusting!

Seriously, this is the guy that people think may have done it?
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post #97 of 235
5/3/10 at 3:45pm
He's acting erratically and they don't have a hell of a lot to go on. They have to go with what they have at the moment.
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post #98 of 235
5/3/10 at 4:18pm
Can someone link to me articles that link the Austin Plane guy and the Hutatree militia people to the tea party? I didn't think they were related.

And for those that hope this is a "tea bagger", I hope you realize exactly what you are wishing. Having increasing amount of American citizens rain destruction and terror on their own will only force the gov't to remove civil liberties for the masses and not just the minorities (such as the "tea baggers"). Devin wants "watch lists" for anyone associated with the group. Sounds like a newer version of McCarthisym, but if deemed to protect the country than it's okay right?

Not only that, but the profiling people that may or may not be associated with the "Tea Party" in this thread is astounding.
It was a middle-aged white guy? Tea bagger for sure, but not only that he's racist. That's not right.
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post #99 of 235
5/3/10 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
He's acting erratically and they don't have a hell of a lot to go on. They have to go with what they have at the moment.
It's New York, Joey. Someone acting erratic is pretty much par for the course. It's like saying someone was acting old in Orlando. It's kinda dumb of the news and the government to be airing this video.
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post #100 of 235
5/3/10 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompoussory Estoppel View Post
Comparing the Austin guy to the entire Tea Bag movement is like comparing Mohammed Atta to the entire Muslim population.
I've got to call bullshit on this analogy. It's not like comparing Mohammed Atta to the entire Muslim population, it's like comparing Mohammed Atta to a specific political group of fundamentalist Muslims. In other words, it's an entirely valid comparison.

There are lots of small factions within the larger umbrella of Islamic radicals who hate each other, too. That doesn't mean they're not united in their hatred for the west. So saying "Well lots of teabaggers disagree with each other" doesn't cut it. You're associating yourself with a group that spouts extremist rhetoric and has members who are already guilty of acts of terrorism. If you want to disassociate yourself, you have to get organized and do so formally, or at least form your own rallies.
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