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The 'Games that hold up' thread

post #1 of 124
Thread Starter 
My own gaming behaviour of the last few months got me thinking...

See, in between the PS3 games I start & try to finish, I find myself firing up the ol' PS2 and Gamecube regularly, either to replay some stuff that I never got around to, or to get a taste of a game experience I lack on the current console generation (I'm talking PS3/Xbox, don't have a Wii).

So I wander: which games of last generation do you think haven't aged, and hold up well against the current titles? I'm talking specifically about either:
(a) games that were important to a genre which has in general benefitted from game development over the years, i.e. FPS, sandbox, or RPG. Is GTA Vice City still enjoyable after a generation of sandboxing? Or any FPS shooter pre-HL2?
(b) classics you're forced to get back to, if you want to play a certain genre nowadays. FE: apart from Ratchet&Clank, I find the platforming genre to be highly under-represented on the PS3 (esp. if you're looking for lighter fare), so I find myself going back to Sly Raccoon & Maximo on my PS2.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this.
post #2 of 124
Vice City might be the best GTA game ever. The humour and era-parodying aspects were at an all time high and the gameplay is focused on fun above all, before the series started getting bogged down by realism and increasingly laborious RPG shenanigans.

As someone who grew up alongside gaming technology I'm probably less biased against clunky old graphics than kidz today who grew up with their new fangled Xbox doohickies etc. It does surprise me how harsh people can be with their gaming 'cut off points' though - I mean Half Life 2, really? Gameplay wise the original Half Life still holds up pretty well, in some respects better than the sequel. Even the original Doom feels pretty evergreen to me, in terms of how it plays.
post #3 of 124
I'd be more interested in older generations.

My parents are putting their house on the market and a couple weeks ago finally found a bunch of my SNES and Genesis games. I have my SNES working at my house, so I'm looking forward to hooking them up as see what holds up coughActraisercough (or what the VC, GBA and DS has shifted in translation).

As for VC, StarTropics was interesting as a four directional game, with unforgiving puzzles.

The biggest question of all of this is: would Goldeneye 007 hold up as a VC/Live release. It's the Holy Grail of vaporware.
post #4 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
The biggest question of all of this is: would Goldeneye 007 hold up as a VC/Live release. It's the Holy Grail of vaporware.
It'd be fun in a nostalgic sort of way but the gameplay wouldn't be as good as we remembered. Perfect Dark on XBLA is just kind of fun if you remember playing it before, rather than being a satisfying gaming experience, and PD is just a more advanced Goldeneye.
post #5 of 124
Perfect Dark was a fun game, but there was something perfect about Goldeneye that transcended it's limits. I guess, that's the real debate, if perfection is forever.
post #6 of 124
I think Perfect Dark has mostly held up pretty great, gameplay-wise. Level design and mission objectives are another matter, but Goldeneye was better at those things to begin with.

Plus, there's something to be said for being absolutely swarmed with enemies, something PD never tried probably due to framerate concerns. Having cheats on in Goldeneye was a blast, just setting off an alarm and retreating back to a room or nook fighting off unlimited waves of randomly-faced henchmen(always got a kick out of the one who looked like Steve Buscemi).

Having said that(like Erik mentioned), I'm biased as hell because I loved those games so much back them and continued to be a fan of stuff like Timesplitters, where the gameplay is admittedly basic compared to something like the new Call of Duty games. I can imagine a kid playing Goldeneye today and hating it. "This game is ugly! You can't even jump?! Gayyy..."

Kind of a moot point anyway, I don't think it'll ever see a release in any legal form.
post #7 of 124
'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic'. I found myself going back and playing this again once I finished off/burned out on 'Dragon Age: Origins', and it still holds up very well. The story, with all of its choices, is still highly involving, and the gameplay is still fun. They really got it right with this game. The sequel has some severe issues, unfortunately.
post #8 of 124
Half-Life 1 still works for me as does many of the older Castlevania games, mostly Symphony of the Night. My friends and I still play Perfect Dark, mostly cause after Golden Eye, we played that game none stop back in high school, so I guess that has something to do with it.

If I had a joystick, Tie Fighter would be on my PC as well.

Jcassady, you'll be surprised how well the SNES still holds up. The classic side scrolling beat em' ups are a blast, Final Fight or The Avengers for example..To even the Star Wars games. While my SNES died a terrible death years ago, I still play games on my emulator.
post #9 of 124
I still play the Max Payne games every now and again. I enjoy the aesthetic and I don't think any game did the whole bullet time thing as well as those games did.
post #10 of 124
Amplitude, goddammit.

Panzer Dragoon Orta is aging spectacularly. There hasn't been a decent shooter of its type this gen yet.

I'm also still puzzled by the people who think Vice City wasn't trumped in every single way a game can be trumped by San Andreas. Hell, even with the two episodes, which are quality, it's still better than GTA IV.
post #11 of 124
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

2D perfection, available on everything (X360 Live, PSN, PSP, etc).

Edit: Beaten by Nick.
post #12 of 124
I could never get into the Metroidvania-type Castlevania games, but I still think III on the NES holds up great. Even better than the SNES one, except for those GODDAMN BIRDS THAT KNOCK YOU OFF LEDGES.
post #13 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I'm also still puzzled by the people who think Vice City wasn't trumped in every single way a game can be trumped by San Andreas. Hell, even with the two episodes, which are quality, it's still better than GTA IV.
Eh, gameplay wise it probably is a bit better I admit. But the radio in Vice City is just gold, both with the scene-setting music and the dialogue. Always found SA a bit disappointing in that regard.
post #14 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
It does surprise me how harsh people can be with their gaming 'cut off points' though - I mean Half Life 2, really?
Note that I was playing advocate to the devil here I'm of the generation that grew up on Atari 2600, so I'm still being wowed by moving in 3D, so to speak.

I mentioned HL2 as a starting point since it was the first newgen FPS that's universally accepted to set a new standard. But Goldeneye & Perfect Dark are great examples for this discussion- for me, GE is charming but outdated, PD is still very enjoyable. Another pairing from a different era: upon replay, I found Return To Castle Wolfenstein (2001) a crushing bore, while I had no problem going through No One Lives Forever (2000) again- and I enjoyed both equally well when they first came out.
It's hard to pinpoint what exactly makes graphically outdated games like those still work or not.. I think atmosphere and tone have a lot to do with it, to the point where they provide the immersion the graphics can no longer deliver. That even trumps gameplay issues, methinks.

Other case in point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
Vice City might be the best GTA game ever. The humour and era-parodying aspects were at an all time high and the gameplay is focused on fun above all, before the series started getting bogged down by realism and increasingly laborious RPG shenanigans.
Although I must say I still enjoy San Andreas AT LEAST as much as VC, RPG character building be damned. But again, that may be because the setting, the references & the soundtrack ('70s chase movies meets LA gangsta) resonated more with my own interests than '80s cop show nostalgia.

And finally:

Quote:
Jcassady, you'll be surprised how well the SNES still holds up.
Seconded. I'm still discovering unknown gems on my emulator that provide hours of entertainment.
post #15 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
I could never get into the Metroidvania-type Castlevania games, but I still think III on the NES holds up great. Even better than the SNES one, except for those GODDAMN BIRDS THAT KNOCK YOU OFF LEDGES.
IV narrowly wins that fight based solely on atmosphere. Aside from one stage with genuinely creepy, effective music (5-1, I believe. The one where you fight Alucard), and the final battles (5 mutant heads vomiting bile. NICE.), III is never out to immerse you in the horror the way IV does every step of the way.
post #16 of 124
See I'm the douchebag who enjoys III, but gets hard over II.

Also Vice City was a goofy fun, that San Andreas didn't have (for me). It's pure personal preference, so I begrudge anyone for liking one over the other.
post #17 of 124
I DLed a Genesis emulator, and the three games I have on it are NBA Jam, Tecmo Super Bowl and NHL 94. All three are still insanely fun.

I look forward to digging out the N64 for Perfect Dark, Starfox and Rogue Squadron when I'm home in August. Maybe if I'm lucky my copy of Goldeneye will appear, too.
post #18 of 124
I don't know why it's taken me so long to realize there's yet to be a bad Shinobi game, but this thread just forced me to that conclusion.
post #19 of 124
It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but any of the atmosphere you're referring to goes flying out the door when you see Belmont laughably spaz out with his whip. I kind of with they had left that feature out of the game, even though they refined it a bit later. It had some impressive use of MODE 7 when it came out, like the spinning room/hallway, doubt that's held up so well though.

I've got that for the super NES, might have to hook that sucker up and go through it again. I've played III much more recently on the VC, so I could be wrong between those two.

Oddly enough, Simon's Quest has amazing atmosphere for a NES game, but that game is the exact opposite of what this thread is about.
post #20 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
See I'm the douchebag who enjoys III, but gets hard over II.
As the asshole who loved Zelda II, i cannot in good conscience condemn this preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7
It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but any of the atmosphere you're referring to goes flying out the door when you see Belmont laughably spaz out with his whip. I kind of with they had left that feature out of the game, even though they refined it a bit later. It had some impressive use of MODE 7 when it came out, like the spinning room/hallway, doubt that's held up so well though.
The giant chandelier section two stages down the road holds up better. That's still kind of an eye-opener effect.

Both still pale in comparison to how Bloodlines fucked with the stage physics, though. I've yet to see a "holy shit" moment as cool as the interlaced mirror section of the final stage.
post #21 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
Eh, gameplay wise it probably is a bit better I admit. But the radio in Vice City is just gold, both with the scene-setting music and the dialogue. Always found SA a bit disappointing in that regard.
San Andreas went a bit too far into the RPG stuff as well (imo). Yeah, I get sucked into the dating crap but now I have to eat a bunch of fast food and get fat because this chick likes fat guys? Now I have to get sculpted for this chick? All a bit much (and not fun if we're being honest). When you ignore those portions, SA is probably the better game. I still prefer the property buying in Vice City though.
post #22 of 124
GTA III holds up pretty well when you're in a car. Otherwise... forgeddabouddit. I seem to remember Tommy in Vice City running so fast on foot that he was kind of unweildy too. People might bitch about the aiming in the last-gen GTAs(rightfully so for the most part, aiming in GTA III is REALLY bad), but I actually quite like the aiming in San Andreas. That game is still a blast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
The giant chandelier section two stages down the road holds up better. That's still kind of an eye-opener effect.
Totally agreed, that part is awesome.
post #23 of 124
Despite being butt-ugly by today's standards, I still have a blast playing through Thief 1 & 2. The level design of those games make them fun for me no matter how many times I've gone through Lord Bafford's Manor or Shoalsgate Station.

Thief 3 was okay, but it doesn't hold up nearly as well. The first two games are classics. Thief 3 was merely passable.
post #24 of 124
post #25 of 124
"Planescape:Torment" still holds up, no matter how hard i try to play the hell out of it, there's always something new in eacvh playthrough.
Castlevania: Rondo of Blood is easily the best of the "classic" castlevania games...sure, it took it a looooooooooooooong time to reach the west in its purest form, but the bastard still is a blast to play and the music and graphics are fantastic.
Going older, there is no way in hell Final Fantasy VI will ever be dethroned as the best in the series.
Also, Tetris...that will never, ever get old.
post #26 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I don't know why it's taken me so long to realize there's yet to be a bad Shinobi game, but this thread just forced me to that conclusion.
Uh, PS2 Shinobi and its "your weapon slowly kills you!" mechanic would like to have a word with you.
Going 8 bit, come on people, "Super Mario Bros 3", "Ducktales", "Contra" and "Super C" still hold up.
I also still play and LOVE "GI Joe: The Atalntis factor".
post #27 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Uh, PS2 Shinobi and its "your weapon slowly kills you!" mechanic would like to have a word with you.
I stand by my previous statement. That game's extremely fun. Moreso than even Ninja Gaiden, killing is a dance in that game, one that's so very satisfying to master. Same goes for Nightshade, though the level design gets awful in that one.
post #28 of 124
This thread FTW. This past week I busted out the dreamcast 4 times to play some Marvel VS Campcom II, Capcom vs. SNK, Crazy Taxi 2, Jet Grind Radio, Shenmue.

imho, Vice city is the peak of fun for the GTA franchise. Andreas just didn't resonate with me as much as VC. It's one reason why I still play Saints Row II, because it reminds me of VC.
post #29 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Uh, PS2 Shinobi and its "your weapon slowly kills you!" mechanic would like to have a word with you.
Going 8 bit, come on people, "Super Mario Bros 3", "Ducktales", "Contra" and "Super C" still hold up.
I also still play and LOVE "GI Joe: The Atalntis factor".
Contra is always a classic (until I played that PS2 beast), but anyone remember Rescue Rangers game. Almost as good as Duck Tales.
post #30 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuldinga View Post
Contra is always a classic (until I played that PS2 beast), but anyone remember Rescue Rangers game. Almost as good as Duck Tales.
Ah, "Rescue Rangers", the game that was co-op, but soon turned into a huge "I'm gonna knock you out with a crate, pick you up and throw you off a cliff!" all out brawl.
Good times, i loved that game.
Also, on the "its supposed to be co-op, but more fun to be dicks" camp, Double Dragon II on the Nes.
post #31 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I stand by my previous statement. That game's extremely fun. Moreso than even Ninja Gaiden, killing is a dance in that game, one that's so very satisfying to master. Same goes for Nightshade, though the level design gets awful in that one.
You're right, Justin, about the combat, but dammit, i ried my best to like that one.
I failed....never tried "Nightshade" due to the bad memories.
An old school, obscure game I loved was "Shatterhand"...god dammit, that one is still a blast to emulate.
post #32 of 124
Random list, in no particular order:

1.)Original gameboy Tetris
2.)Castlevania 1 and 3
3.)Half Life 2
4.)Mike Tyson's Punchout
5.)The original Final Fantasy
6.)Knights of the Old Republic
7.)Psychonauts
8.)Genesis NHLPA Hockey -- the year that had the blood
9.)Tecmo Bowl
10.)RBI Baseball
11.)The following arcade sidescrollers: Simpsons, X:Men, both D&D games, Golden Axe, Final Fight
12.)Street Fighter II
13.)Resident Evil 4
post #33 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Ah, "Rescue Rangers", the game that was co-op, but soon turned into a huge "I'm gonna knock you out with a crate, pick you up and throw you off a cliff!" all out brawl.
Good times, i loved that game.
Also, on the "its supposed to be co-op, but more fun to be dicks" camp, Double Dragon II on the Nes.
Why did they have it so you could hurt each other?! WHY


I'll keep playing Paper-Boy and The Last Starfighter

Anyone remember those table top arcade games? they had Pac-man and Galaga and so fourth, well, while I was younger I had my first experience with Castlevania on one of these and i can't find one for the life of me.
post #34 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
I
Anyone remember those table top arcade games?
Nope. Nobody remembers those but you.
post #35 of 124
is there a backlash on the Table-top arcades?
post #36 of 124
It's a Sith mind trick, Nick.
post #37 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuldinga View Post
Jet Grind Radio,
Excellent case in point.. gameplay in this is just flawless- whatever it tries to do it does really well. Also, it's a gaming environment you like to go back to once in a while. Sure, nostalgia plays a role in that, but it only takes you so far. I have fond memories of this game, but I'm much better off just playing the brilliant music nowadays, cause the sturdy controls drive me up the wall within minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuldinga View Post
imho, Vice city is the peak of fun for the GTA franchise. Andreas just didn't resonate with me as much as VC. It's one reason why I still play Saints Row II, because it reminds me of VC.
Really? I love me some Saints Row, but that's just because it's a monty python version of GTA, gameplay- and mission-wise. But the story, characters, music don't do anything for me, and it doesn't have the distinctive well-crafted 'flavour' VC or SA had. That's really what lifts both one notch above even the best of the other sandboxes, I feel (apart maybe, from Red Faction Guerilla). If I want a VC with better gameplay mechanics (I'm gonna get lynched for this, but fuck it, confession time) I turn to Scarface TWIY.
post #38 of 124
Goddammit, Princess Kate, I hate agreeing with you.

Deus Ex is as fun as it was when it first came out.
post #39 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheftournel View Post
Excellent case in point.. gameplay in this is just flawless- whatever it tries to do it does really well. Also, it's a gaming environment you like to go back to once in a while. Sure, nostalgia plays a role in that, but it only takes you so far. I have fond memories of this game, but I'm much better off just playing the brilliant music nowadays, cause the sturdy controls drive me up the wall within minutes.



Really? I love me some Saints Row, but that's just because it's a monty python version of GTA, gameplay- and mission-wise. But the story, characters, music don't do anything for me, and it doesn't have the distinctive well-crafted 'flavour' VC or SA had. That's really what lifts both one notch above even the best of the other sandboxes, I feel (apart maybe, from Red Faction Guerilla). If I want a VC with better gameplay mechanics (I'm gonna get lynched for this, but fuck it, confession time) I turn to Scarface TWIY.
to be fair, I have only played Saints Row II, and from what I hear it's a vast improvement over the first. The mission are amusing, the characters can be fun (Eliza Dushku even sounds sexy), and I don't mind the music. I do prefer the 80's stations of VC, but that's because I am old.

Response to P.K. and Patrick - Deus Ex is still one my favorite games ever, I just can't find my copy and I missed the sale Steam had for PC
post #40 of 124
Sorry for a bit of a derail, but this seems like as good a place to ask as any... Back when I was a kid there was an arcade machine made by Konami that was very much like Castlevania, but was not called Castlevania. There was a whip and as I recall the demo had Dracula themed stuff. The graphics more resembled the SNES Castlevania IV, but it was older than that. I never made it very far, but I remember it began in a spooky courtyard at night, then led into a castle/mansion, just like 1 and 4. I can't remember if there were candles or weapons other than the whip.

Does anyone have any idea what it was?
post #41 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
is there a backlash on the Table-top arcades?
I can't find the old threat, but we all pretty much decided table top videogames were impossible to use properly and were just plain awful. Several folks had cringe-inducing stories, and basically said they'd be enraged if the topic ever even came up again.
post #42 of 124
No love for Mario 64? I played it again about a year ago and it was still a blast. Controls are smooth and responsive, level design and gameplay are varied, and being able to tackle the levels in different orders cuts down on the frustration factor.
post #43 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
Sorry for a bit of a derail, but this seems like as good a place to ask as any... Back when I was a kid there was an arcade machine made by Konami that was very much like Castlevania, but was not called Castlevania. There was a whip and as I recall the demo had Dracula themed stuff. The graphics more resembled the SNES Castlevania IV, but it was older than that. I never made it very far, but I remember it began in a spooky courtyard at night, then led into a castle/mansion, just like 1 and 4. I can't remember if there were candles or weapons other than the whip.

Does anyone have any idea what it was?
Haunted Castle. I've only played it once. I remember thinking I wasn't missing much, especially since Castlevania IV came out soon after.
post #44 of 124
Sweet, thanks a lot, that was going to bother me for the rest of my years. I'll have to look it up on YouTube or something.
It was so remarkably similar it must have started as a Castlevania game. Maybe it just wasn't up to snuff and they renamed it.
post #45 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
Why did they have it so you could hurt each other?! WHY
Could have sworn you could turn that off. 2 Player A vs. 2 Player B?
post #46 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuldinga View Post
to be fair, I have only played Saints Row II, and from what I hear it's a vast improvement over the first. The mission are amusing, the characters can be fun (Eliza Dushku even sounds sexy), and I don't mind the music. I do prefer the 80's stations of VC, but that's because I am old.
Should make it clear here: also only experience with SRII. And yeah, the missions make me laugh, but reflecting on them, I can only consider them to be 'just weird shit thrown in for laughs.' It's the Naked Gun of sandbox games. Whereas VC is a terrific send-up on about every cop series & gangster movie from the eighties, while standing strong on its own as well.
Which makes me love SA even more: it starts off as a typical '90s gangsta movie scenario, then turns into a parody of that. THEN, you have to head for the hills and it basically turns into Smokey & The Bandit. Which gets infused with delicious parodies on hippie culture when you meet The Truth & set out for San Fierro. Then, after a short detour past UFO conspiracy paranoia, it climaxes in a balls-out heist scenario in Venturas/Vegas, of all places. All the while keeping a distinctive GTA flavour. It's a damn roadmap of popculture at the end of the 20thC, is what it is.
And the soundtrack just mirrors that, flawlessly. Old school & gangsta hiphop, seventies funk & country (featuring the best damn c&w compilation of all time) & rock, and early nineties house & indie rock/metal. Fuck it, just waxing on it makes me want to go & play it all over again.

Sorry to ramble here folks, but what other game does that? The answer, of course, is Bully (don't get me started ).
post #47 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheftournel View Post
Should make it clear here: also only experience with SRII. And yeah, the missions make me laugh, but reflecting on them, I can only consider them to be 'just weird shit thrown in for laughs.' It's the Naked Gun of sandbox games. Whereas VC is a terrific send-up on about every cop series & gangster movie from the eighties, while standing strong on its own as well.
Which makes me love SA even more: it starts off as a typical '90s gangsta movie scenario, then turns into a parody of that. THEN, you have to head for the hills and it basically turns into Smokey & The Bandit. Which gets infused with delicious parodies on hippie culture when you meet The Truth & set out for San Fierro. Then, after a short detour past UFO conspiracy paranoia, it climaxes in a balls-out heist scenario in Venturas/Vegas, of all places. All the while keeping a distinctive GTA flavour. It's a damn roadmap of popculture at the end of the 20thC, is what it is.
And the soundtrack just mirrors that, flawlessly. Old school & gangsta hiphop, seventies funk & country (featuring the best damn c&w compilation of all time) & rock, and early nineties house & indie rock/metal. Fuck it, just waxing on it makes me want to go & play it all over again.

Sorry to ramble here folks, but what other game does that? The answer, of course, is Bully (don't get me started ).
Saints Row 2 co-op>any GTA game experience by a very wide margin.
post #48 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuldinga View Post
This thread FTW. This past week I busted out the dreamcast 4 times to play some Marvel VS Campcom II, Capcom vs. SNK, Crazy Taxi 2, Jet Grind Radio, Shenmue.

imho, Vice city is the peak of fun for the GTA franchise. Andreas just didn't resonate with me as much as VC. It's one reason why I still play Saints Row II, because it reminds me of VC.
Oh, fuck, Shenmue. I thought I was the only one who played the thing. So much fun. The sequel was pretty tits too. They make any more them?
post #49 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheftournel View Post
Sorry to ramble here folks, but what other game does that? The answer, of course, is Bully (don't get me started ).
Bully has an excellent soundtrack. I would just hop onto my bike and cruise around the map for a while because I loved the "bike riding" music so much.
post #50 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post
Oh, fuck, Shenmue. I thought I was the only one who played the thing. So much fun. The sequel was pretty tits too. They make any more them?
They've been trying to get a third game off the ground for years now, but those games weren't cheap to make, and the second one sold like shit in the U.S. And they'd pretty much need to reinvent the wheel to work in this current gen.

Although Heavy Rain selling as well as it did may open some doors for someone to take a chance on that series again.
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