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Working on a Videogame based thesis, could use some help.

post #1 of 34
5/11/10 at 7:25pm
Thread Starter 
Well, its not like we have a homework/paper/reports thread, so I'll just post thsi here.
Due to some unexpected factors, I had to change my collegue thesis subject, and my teacher asked me to do the following subject: "The Evolution of Videogame Narrative".
Before anyone asks, no, the whole "are videogames art?" debate doesnt get touched into this; essentially the work would be a look and analysis of how videogame narrative has evolved over time as the genres got more complex and the technology advanced, usually by using 3 or 4 games as examples of each chapters theme.
My idea is to go through this in a timeline, going through genres and then moving into themes for each chapter, and I could use some videogame recomendations; so far, the original plan (as a rough draft) is something like this:

1)Interactive Fiction (Zork,Planetfall, A Mind Forever Voyaging, HHGTG)
2)Adventure Games (King's Quest, Gabriel Knight, Monkey island, Grim Fandango, I have no mouth and I must scream)
3) Early Western RPG's (Ultima, Wasteland, etc)
4)The JRPG and 16 bit Narrative (Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger, Phantasy Star IV, Earthbound, Lunar)
5) The reinvention of Western RPGs (Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1/2,Arcanum)
6) The JRPG during the 5th Console era (FF VII to IX, Valkyrie Profile, Xenogears, Grandia)
7) Survival and Horror in the home console (Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Clock Tower)
8) FPS and Inmersion (Half Life 1/2, Deus Ex, System Shock 2)
9) The 6th console era's narrative evolution (Silent Hill 2, MGS 2/3, Shenmue, FF XII)
10) The next generation western RPG, inmersion and morality gameplay (Fallout 3, Oblivion, Mass Effect 1/2, Dragon Age)
11) Massively Multiplayer Narrative (MMOG games in general)
12) Conclusion.

I know this is a VERY rough and non polished quick draft, so i could use some pointers or suggestion on what games you guys(gals consider key to examining the evolution of videogame narrative.
Any help would be appreciated, as Im currently reading "Dungeons and Desktops and Twisty Little Passages, and may very well start working on this next month.

EDIT: A good example is that a coworker is making his case for Assasins Creed 1/2 to be part of this given to their use of history and narrative devices (the Animus as a justification for gameplay/narrative limitations)...I'm not sure its worth including)
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post #2 of 34
5/11/10 at 7:30pm
I'd swap out FF VI for FF IV (or at least combine them). Actraiser is wonderful for the the narrative for a God game and it's attempt to reach non-God gamers (also addressing religion themes on Nintendo consoles).

Also Halo spawned novels and a bunch of shitty text. If you are going to address ME and DA:O, then go for Halo.

"Sorry, but our Princess is in another castle" must appear.

ETA" Assassin's Creed should be in the same jurisdiction as this paper.
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post #3 of 34
5/11/10 at 7:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
I'd swap out FF VI for FF IV (or at least combine them). Actraiser is wonderful for the the narrative for a God game and it's attempt to reach non-God gamers (also addressing religion themes on Nintendo consoles).

Also Halo spawned novels and a bunch of shitty text. If you are going to address ME and DA:O, then go for Halo.

"Sorry, but our Princess is in another castle" must appear.

ETA" Assassin's Creed should be in the same jurisdiction as this paper.
God dammit, I cant believe I forgot about FFIV, yes it should be combined with VI.
Actraiser goes for consideration, but I've got an extension limit, so it might get the chop.
Actually, Halo and AC1/2 are some of the "still deciding" choices here; ME and Dragon Age are being focused on because of their Morality sistems and consecuential narrative (as in the ME1 to ME2 transfer).

EDIT: Dammit, it seems like I'll need to play AC2 if it makes it in.
Edit2: "Sorry, but our Princess is in another castle" should be a chapter title.
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post #4 of 34
5/11/10 at 8:16pm
You should also address Video Games on film (why they don't work).
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post #5 of 34
5/11/10 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcassady View Post
You should also address Video Games on film (why they don't work).
I've been toying with the idea of the use of cinematics on videogames as a jumping point for that and the birth of machinima (using a book called "The end of celluloid"), but it may be too much of a stretch here.
Still, its a tempting idea to pull off.
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post #6 of 34
5/11/10 at 8:34pm
I feel you could mention thw modern "cinematic game" ala Uncharted 2. The defining characteristics are motion capture of actors and emphasis on characters and cinemtaic style action/gameplay scenes. It's where you can see game developers taking a lot of cues from blockbuster movies in particular.

Note: The Metal Gear series also takes a lot of influence from cinema, but it's plotting is a whole other story.
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post #7 of 34
5/11/10 at 8:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriegaffe View Post
I feel you could mention thw modern "cinematic game" ala Uncharted 2. The defining characteristics are motion capture of actors and emphasis on characters and cinemtaic style action/gameplay scenes. It's where you can see game developers taking a lot of cues from blockbuster movies in particular.

Note: The Metal Gear series also takes a lot of influence from cinema, but it's plotting is a whole other story.
Thats actually a chapter I'll need to research more; I'm focusing more on story/narrative and expsoition devices in videogames, but the ever developing link between video games and cinema must be adresssed.
If i HAVE to do one MGS game , I'll go with MGS3: Snake Eater, and because the Codec is an excellent example of an exposition device.

EDIT: I'm also deciding if I should give Bioshock and Planescape:Torment a separate chapter on Games and Philosophy/Religion.
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post #8 of 34
5/11/10 at 9:46pm
The original Ninja Gaidens need to be addressed.

The first game single handedly invented the cutscene.
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post #9 of 34
5/11/10 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
The original Ninja Gaidens need to be addressed.

The first game single handedly invented the cutscene.
God dammit, Id forgotten about that...need to show the 8bit era some love there.
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post #10 of 34
5/11/10 at 10:11pm
Portal deserves a mention for the way the narrative is essentially an optional meta-game that requires the player to actively seek out the various clues to the story.

I'd also include the original System Shock and the Thief series in the 'FPS and Immersion' section. You may even be able to go as far back as the Ultima Underworld series, but I'm less familiar with how the narrative was integrated with the gameplay in that series. SS1 originated the 'found audio/video logs as narrative device' system, Shock 2 followed that mold pretty much exactly, Thief and Deus Ex refined it a bit with the addition of overheard AI conversations. The Half-Life series also uses AI conversations, but a major difference is the way that Valve specifically divide their levels into narrative sections (where you can overhear conversations and read stuff and explore a bit without the risk of dying) and action sections (where you pretty much just move on a set path and kill everything), Thief and Deus Ex (and, to a lesser extent, No One Lives Forever) mix them together more, so every gameplay section where you learn story can just as easily be a section where you have to fight (or, in Thief's case, run away).
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post #11 of 34
5/12/10 at 12:44pm
If you're reaching back far enough and are including Ultima, you really need to use Ultima IV. Generally recognized as the first game to introduce morality as a central part of its design (the "psych test" character creation in Fallout 3 etc. began here). Was also the beginning of a persistent narrative over three games. Ultima III -> Ultima IV is the basically the transition from "classic" to "modern" RPGs.
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post #12 of 34
5/12/10 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
The original Ninja Gaidens need to be addressed.

The first game single handedly invented the cutscene.
I thought Gogol 13 was the first to use cutscenes.
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post #13 of 34
5/12/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA View Post
I thought Gogol 13 was the first to use cutscenes.
Huh. They were only a couple of months apart but Golgo 13 was indeed technically first. Still they were obviously developed simultaneously and the "cutscene" format progressed almost directly from Ninja Gaiden. Most of Golgo 13's story sequences were just character conversations you ran through by pushing "A".
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post #14 of 34
5/12/10 at 1:20pm
Also, Gaiden's scenes actually displayed rudimentary cinematography. From what little I remember of Golgo 13, the conversations were two people in a room, and nothing else.
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post #15 of 34
5/12/10 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Also, Gaiden's scenes actually displayed rudimentary cinematography. From what little I remember of Golgo 13, the conversations were two people in a room, and nothing else.
Well, they also had implied sex as you would see the outlines in the hotel windows from outside the hotel before the lights went. Also, there were the two sniper sections that really were there more for atmosphere and to move the story forward(which at the time, I thought they were really cool touches), as opposed to gameplay. Yes, they weren't as flashy as Gaiden, but they served the same purpose and arguably blended with the gameplay in a more seamless way.
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post #16 of 34
5/12/10 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
This paper's going to end up 300 pages long, aint it?
I kid, i kid...you guys have been really helpful, and I might have to rethink part of the work plan here thanks to your opinions.
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post #17 of 34
5/12/10 at 6:52pm
You think fighting games have narratives? Granted, it's beat first guy to get to second guy to get to boss fight, but it IS a narrative, basic as it is.
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post #18 of 34
5/12/10 at 7:09pm
There is something to say that as fighting games have evolved, so have the attached narratives (See Soulcalibur).
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post #19 of 34
5/12/10 at 7:33pm
Here's how I would approach the subject:

How have video games as a mass market art-form approached fictional narrative: aka, video games and the art of storytelling?

1.)Early video games as non-narrative affairs
--arcade type stuff
--early console games

2.)Video games begin to embrace fictional narratives
--originally, almost exclusively on p.c., mostly text based, historical/fantastical in nature, niche market
--for consoles, even in the NES era, we see the first indications that video games were going to be about telling STORIES, not merely accumulated points or navigating obstacles. See early role playing games such as Final Fantasy, maybe even talk Ninja Gaiden's primitive attempts at cut scenes.


3.)As technology evolves, video games began to embrace the characteristics of other media
--thematic music that matches the scene, not simply a soundtrack.
--voice acting: early examples, wing commander martian memorandum
--the use of cut scenes becomes prevalent. Cut scenes become more sophisticated
--the entire presentation becomes more cinema-like, with lighting, realism, and art direction become more integrated with the storytelling experience. Final evolution: games like Half Life 2, Bioshock.

4.)The future of the fictional narrative
--Games like Heavy Rain, Alan Wake, perhaps Bioshock, look to create characters that the person plays and interacts with in a fully realized fictional world, rather than present avatars that a player controls. Games are now as sophisticated as many movies in how they present themes, images, music, etc.


You clearly know your games, so you'll have no problems picking examples from various works to illustrate your points. I would divide your paper up by overall time periods or technological advances, rather than divide it by genres or specific game types.
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post #20 of 34
5/13/10 at 1:56am
I like Overlord's outline, but it's missing an important detail in Section II–

The primary reason why fictional narratives began to appear in the NES console era is because up until that point, video game designers were encouraged to create games without a real "ending." Games with a few levels on an infinite loop kept the quarters rolling in, since there was always a new high score to beat.

When the Famicom & NES were released, Nintendo realized pretty early on that they weren't going to make any additional revenue after an NES game was sold. Hence, the need to sell more "finite" games with clearly defined endings (and a closing credits reel), to encourage more game purchases.

If you need a citation for this, I'm pretty sure I read it in David Sheff's GAME OVER: PRESS START TO CONTINUE – THE MATURING OF MARIO (rev. ed. 1999).
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post #21 of 34
5/13/10 at 2:12am
Thread Starter 
Overlord and Ambler are right on the money here, since my main starting obstacle here is to either tackle the them chronologically (jumping from console/faming generation to the next), thematically (going from the different themes and features of each step in video game narrative evolution) or by genre.
I'm think I should do this chronologically, but focusing on the genres that define each gaming period, while also dedicating special chapters to feature/themes that are essential to the main thesis, like say, Immersion, morality systems and so on.
Also, a quick meeting with my teacher made it clear that Assassins Creed 1/2 must be included, both due to its immersion mechanics and its sue of real world history as setting/story....had to buy AC2, since i havent played that one.
On the plus side, AC2 is pretty damn good, and I' already impressed by its historical/visual accuracy.
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post #22 of 34
5/13/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCA View Post
I thought Gogol 13 was the first to use cutscenes.
I thought it was Karateka released in 1984?
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post #23 of 34
5/13/10 at 11:28am
Look, technically Pac-Man had cutscenes. Ninja Gaiden was the first to really try to mimic film cinematography, with camera pans and focus changes.
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post #24 of 34
5/13/10 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
4.)The future of the fictional narrative
--Games like Heavy Rain, Alan Wake, perhaps Bioshock, look to create characters that the person plays and interacts with in a fully realized fictional world, rather than present avatars that a player controls.
This is hardly a new idea that's just cropped up in game narrative. And Alan Wake and (especially) Bioshock are both pretty terrible examples of the idea, in both (player) character- and world-creation, and it makes me sad that you're holding them up as high water marks for both.
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post #25 of 34
5/13/10 at 11:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
This is hardly a new idea that's just cropped up in game narrative. And Alan Wake and (especially) Bioshock are both pretty terrible examples of the idea, in both (player) character- and world-creation, and it makes me sad that you're holding them up as high water marks for both.
Cool story, bro.
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post #26 of 34
5/14/10 at 8:14am
Ryoken, I would add that a...Major part of videogame history would be all the...Run N' Gun games and Beat Em Ups of the...80's-mid 90's. For Run N' Gun Games there are several, including...Contra, Heavy Barrel, Mercs, Smash Tv, Ikari Warriors and Metal Slug. For Beat Em Ups there are...Double Dragon, TMNT, Dungeon and Dragon's, X-Men The Arcade Game, The Punisher, Final Fight, Renegade and Streets Of Rage etc.
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post #27 of 34
6/1/10 at 1:39am
This deserves a bump because Dan Pinchbeck has uploaded his doctoral thesis on narrative in first person games. I haven't even looked at it yet, but apparently it's insanely thorough and full of charts and graphs and such.
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post #28 of 34
6/1/10 at 11:40am
Thread Starter 
Holy crap, Fafhrd, tahts great ,material..im really grateful for poimting that out to me
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post #29 of 34
6/1/10 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Holy crap, Fafhrd, tahts great ,material..im really grateful for poimting that out to me
Man, your link was so awesome that it broke his brain.
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post #30 of 34
6/1/10 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post
Man, your link was so awesome that it broke his brain.
Nope, work keyboard sucks ass.
There is a bit of brain damage, though.
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post #31 of 34
6/1/10 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Nope, work keyboard sucks ass.
There is a bit of brain damage, though.
Both of these apply to me as well.
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post #32 of 34
6/1/10 at 6:08pm
One aspect of video games that always fascinated me was that it is the only story form in which a completely mute hero is not out of the ordinary. The Legend of Zelda games, Half Life 1/2, Fallout 3, Ico... the list goes on and on.
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post #33 of 34
6/5/10 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeplesslumber View Post
One aspect of video games that always fascinated me was that it is the only story form in which a completely mute hero is not out of the ordinary. The Legend of Zelda games, Half Life 1/2, Fallout 3, Ico... the list goes on and on.
If I remember correctly, Chrono Trigger actually made fun of that convention as it practiced it.
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post #34 of 34
6/5/10 at 9:19pm
Man, some of those are some pretty hardcore games. If you'd like a contrast to narrative forms of games, you can deal with the roguelikes that were popular alongside the Infocom stuff.
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