Apple at last tops Microsoft as world's biggest tech company

The irony is that as Apple gets bigger, the more the company acts like Microsoft.

Sadly, I worry that Apple is here to stay. Google will eat into both market shares, but I'm betting it takes a bigger bite of Microsoft than it does of Apple.

Apple is too cool for people to realize how awful a completely Apple controlled tech world would be. The only thing keeping them in check is the competition.

I seriously hope that they never become the new Microsoft. I think our only hope right now is Google, but it may not be enough.

Maybe when Jobs finally dies, things will get better. We can hope, right?

Apple is and will be worse than Microsoft ever was when it is all said and done.

Yeah, I'd agree. I like their product design philosophy, but everything else is a pain in the ass. Buying an Apple product is like buying a TV that only lets you watch what the manufacturer thinks is worth watching.

The real irony is that Apple is more like Microsoft than Microsoft. Not only are they locking users into proprietary closed source software, like the big M, but they have a deathgrip on the hardware choices of their users as well. They are also advocates of drm, and sit on the panel that "guides" the task force that raided that journalist's home over the gizmodo iPhone fiasco.

Anyways, back on topic:

Microsoft has been in decline in both market and influence for years now, it just hasn't affected the average consumer yet. Businesses are wising up and using Linux for their servers, and you have what I believe is going to turn into a mass exodus into Apple (for most users) and Linux (for discerning users).

Seriously, why is a business going to pay for per-machine licenses not just for the OS, but every piece of M$ productivity software, PLUS licenses for malware protection on top of infamously short up time scenarios? There's no upside, in my opinion, and hasn't been since windowed navigation became common place in user space.

On the casual user side of things, I'm pretty sure people are tired of paying techs to "repair" their computer after it gets p0wned by some random malware that their 70 dollar/year licensed virus software was supposed to protect them from.

The recent McAfee "false positive" craziness is a good indicator of how things are going for Windows, in my opinion.

*Edited to fix formatting

Apples little tiff with Adobe Flash is annoying as hell. More so for us iphone users.

I don't know about that. The recent Google I/O conference showed some pretty interesting things.

Android tablets and TV's are going to be the central media experience that Bill Gates was only dreaming about with Windows Media Center.

And cloud based? Hellz yeah.

Case in point: A student put together a presentation for class on his Mac. I was unable to convert it into anything I could use on a PC. By unable, I mean there wasn't a program I could use on any computer. I have Linux- and Windows-based pcs and I could not get a program that would convert it. I had to have a Mac, with Keynote, and Quark something. The design philosophy is nice, but the fact I cannot use an open source program to convert it into something else nearly cost this kid a large grade, and caused me an hour of consternation trying to get his presentation to work with the rest of the class'.

This.

What if you lose network connection? You really want a device with a completely remote operating system?

Information privacy also becomes a pretty major concern, imo. Nothing on the internet is really anonymous unless you're a hacker experienced in IP spoofing.

What you have to keep in mind is that files work on different kinds of computers by design. There's no obvious or natural way to encode a file. Apple tries to make its soft formats as incompatible as possible with any company that isn't pre-approved.

FYI: Even the best AV/protection programs out there are only about 80/85% effective.

Shit's gonna happen. As the Mac OS gains market share, more and more shit's gonna happen.

Also, cloud computing is cool and all that. It's a great marketing tool in that it promotes subscription based services which are cash cows.

I could talk in lengths about how cloud computing is a bad idea, but I'll leave that for other conversations.

Yes, but there are a million options because Apple is forced to provide support for popular software such as Powerpoint, in order to be competitive. Imagine a computing world where that competition isn't as strong, or doesn't exist at all!

It was a Keynote presentation. Take Powerpoint. I can use Open Office to put the file into .ppt or .pptx or .odp or turn it into a .mov or .wmv or set the slides up as picture files or Google's open files. The file extension was .key. I had to have a Mac and I had to have the Keynote software to get it into anything else.

ETA: The problem isn't that I was using Keynote. The problem was that the student was using Keynote and I was unable to see what the student had created because Apple is closed computing. Was it a good opportunity to discuss file compatability? Yes. But time was of the essence, and, for an hour I didn't have time to waste, I spent trying to figure out ways of getting this file into a form I could use.

I'm more curious to see how things stand in areas like revenue and profits as opposed to market capitalization, which isn't the best measurement.

I'm also willing to bet this is less about desktop systems and more about iPod/iPhone dominance. With Apple's douchey approach to business, how long can their slick designs maintain market share with the introduction of quality competition from the likes of Google?

True, in the non *nix world. The truth is that the nixes provide the possibility for more hardened systems by the way they treat permissions.

Example: For a while I was (unwisely) using a VNC server to remote control my media server. I decided to put the VNC port on the internet. Not even five seconds, and I am not kidding, someone cracked the password and immediately attempted to format one of my drives! They didn't succeed because I paid REAL close attention to the user accounts setup and permissions scheme. Incidentally, I have removed VNC software from my computer.

Anyways, you're right that there's no such thing as a completely secure computer if it isn't filled with cement and dropped into a lake. Still, I feel that the common user has gotten used to a VERY middling standard of security from some of these big corporations.

Market Cap is a very fungible thing, as it's more about future value than, you know, actual value, but Microsoft really dropped the ball with their poor mobile showing in recent years.

It's difficult to run a business on low margin, high volume software licensing when your biggest competitor (No, not Apple) is out-Microsofting you by charging nothing for a product (Android) that you yourself make your living charging for (Windows Mobile). Even their Office monopoly is taking body blows from Google with their Google Docs platform, which, when coupled with OSS absolutely destroying their server software business, leaves Microsoft with very little room for growth.

This actually has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with Google and OSS taking Microsoft out to the woodshed.

As for Apple taking over the tech landscape, I just don't see it. Given their disinterest in razor thin margins, I imagine a world where Google is ubiquitous, yet invisible (think Apache HTTP Server), while Apple maintains a healthy 15-30% of the mobile computing market, along with the lion's share of retail profits.

I'm mostly talking about cloud back-up/syncing and being able to access that on different systems and temporarily bring the information down to the hub you are on.

I just lost a flash drive that the latest back-up I have for is over 6 months old. Manually backing up thumb drives is a giant PITA and so cloud computing is looking mighty good right now.

Do you have an opinion on the legal future of OSS? I'm not any good with legal analysis, and it's hard to find a layman's description of the current political terrain.

Backup convenience is probably the most compelling argument for the existence of cloud technology, I agree. However, I've decided that any cloud services I use will be personal servers administered by myowndang self. I really feel trepidatious about placing my information security in the hands of large corporation whose policies I have no say in.

*Edited for stupid, stupid typo

In a country where suicide is the leading cause of death for Chinese ages 15 to 34, it's kind of sad how people only seem to care when an American multinational corporation is tangentially involved.

Yes, but in all fairness, I should temper my vitriol a bit.

Without Apple and people buying iPhones, the smart phone market wouldn't be what it is today. It eventually would have gotten there, but may have taken at least a couple more years.

So what?

If the market has advanced at the cost of the freedom to use what you want on a smart phone, or evolved to a one-brand market where that brand can decide whether to access the iPhone you have bought and delete any app they deem unsuitable for whatever random reason they themselves decide on then what kind of market is everyone beholden to exactly? Everyone's now locked into a brand that has very little qualms about deciding what you can and can't do with their product.

If that was the price of this speedy evolution, maybe the market could have done with taking a bit longer to get to where it's at now.

My personal and highly thought out position - fuck Apple. They've turned into the very fascist corporate assholes they purported to rail against back in the day and now just make shiny toys for people easily wowed by well marketed bullshit.

I agree. Perhaps me Devil's advocating myself made me sound too soft on Apple there. I promise, though, look at any post I've made on here regarding Apple and you'll see my seething fury.

My post involved perhaps some wishful thinking and a smart consumer base (yeah, right). With smart consumers, we could have have jumped on the iPhone bandwagon to let everyone know we wanted smart phones, and then at the first signs of competition with a better long term outlook, everyone jump ship.

I refused to buy an iPhone because of my feelings, and I waited until the Android phones came out before I went full out smart phone.

For the time, though, Apple DID design a nice interface and showed us how phones should be used. If only they weren't so evil.

But yeah, sorry for apparently sounding mildly pro Apple, as I am not! I was just trying to point out that they are the reason this discussion includes smart phones and not just PCs, as I doubt people would be as interested in smart phones without Apple's push into the market.

So... screw Apple! /high five

My macbook isn't closed off as much as you would think. Anything I've done on the PC, I've done on the Mac.

Oh and that guy who did the Keynote presentation is a douche. Sadly there are some Mac fanboys out there and love to show it off (my anatomy professor was one, kept releasing everything in keynote, told us to get macs, we had the school twist his hand).

Interesting blurb on consumer lock in. Discuss?

Fuck'em.

That's my erudite contribution.

I own a nano that was given to me as a present and have iTunes on my laptop to put music on it, other than that they won't get a fucking cent out of me.

I feel the same. I guess I'm just trying to give some evidence for the less convinced among us...

*Edited for relevancy

I heartily disapprove, but I can't hate. Apple is where they are now because they built a complete computing and content ecosystem that delivers a consistent and intuitive experience for end users. Locking you into iTunes and proprietary formats is key to making that happen.

I don't have any personal use for it, as I had enough of this BS the first time around when AOL tried to present a walled off Internet with "freedom...freedom from porn...freedom from yap yap yappity yap". But it's working.

Apple stores are fun to play in, and my wife likes her iPod Touch, but I think that's where it's gonna stop for me.

What bugs me isn't so much Apple's proprietary attitude, but their attitude that they're doing us a favor by being that way.

I do love the functionality of their computers though, especially when it comes to creative stuff.

I've had zero problems over years of working with rather intensive audio programs, as well as video editing, design, etc.

My experience with PCs in this realm was terrible at best.

Good points all around though, and their DRM/walled in attitude pisses me off to no end. But at the end of the day, I go with their functionality and dependability which for me, works amazingly.

I'm not a "loyalist" though. If a better product for my needs truly came along, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.

Also, I know it's not their fault all the way, but the DRM shit on their videos from iTunes pisses me off something fierce. I buy Lost each week, but can't carry the files down to my PS3 to watch on my projector. I'm not allowed to convert my own files. Why? Oh, because then I could conceivably upload that more "universal"/DRM-free file to a torrent network where people would then pirate it left and right. And Christ knows they weren't doing that already, half a day before Apple even got around to uploading their file. Jesus...

ETA: Oh, but let's not forget that for all my whining I DO have an Apple sanctioned option: buy a fucking Apple TV! Those pieces of shit... old roommate had one. One of the most worthless, buggy things Apple has ever released.

Granted, I only work in the audio realm, but I never got the argument that Macs were vastly superior for creative stuff. I recorded two solo albums using a PC DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) program that was pretty intuitive and came with some awesome VSTs, and was able to do so because of the TONS of additional free VSTs, samples and effects that really helped me flesh out my sound. Never had an issue. All for much less than the cost of a stock Mac with no programs except Garageband and no samples.

Anyone who buys an issue of Computer Music magazine from the UK can pretty much do the same with the awesome freeware they put on their CDs each month (for PCs).

Why would I pay hundreds more for a Mac that does the exact same thing? For the neat looking dock and transitions? No thanks.

I'm no tech genius, and really don't want to be. So I'll plead ignorance to a certain degree.

I just base it all on personal experience. Every PC I've had, no matter how well put together or stocked with powerful RAM, etc., has totally crapped out in a relatively short window of time. Freezing up all the time when I really put it to work, etc.

I haven't had these problems with my two Macs. Call me superstitious, call me a moron. I don't really care.* I like how they're treating me for now, and will continue to use the ones I have for that reason. If and when they cease to be, I'll see about other options, including another Mac.

Also, their interface and aesthetic actually does a lot for me because I find it far easier and more intuitive. And for me personally, that counts for a great deal when I'm trying to be "creative."

*Not really directed at you, Michah. I only say that because anytime there's some discussion about this, there's invariably some Microsoft fanboy who a) accuses me of being a blind Apple follower, and then b) throws out lots of super-technical mumbo jumbo trying to sell me on why Apples suck.

If for example I need to by a hard disk for my PC I can buy one, fit it and install it with ease and very little cost. If I had a Mac I would have to take it to an authorised repair centre and it would cost me a fortune. That is why i say screw Apple.

Apple may have the handheld market sewn up but they will never fully overtake the PC in the workplace or home enviroment unless they lower the price of the products.

Cost of an average laptop £300 for a resonable spec and according to the Apple UK website the cheapest macbook is £800.

No offense taken. I'm not on Team Microsoft, and I find identifying with an inanimate object as if it were a fraternity to be silly. I have no problem paying a premium for what I perceive to be a measurably better product. I just haven't found anything about OSX and/or Macs or Macbooks to show me how measurably better they are.

I've used Wintel machines all my adult life. Only problems I've had were mechanical components from third parties like Seagate or Creative Labs failing. The only antivirus and firewall software I use now are Microsoft's own free Security Essentials, and I have no issues. I'm on Windows XP, and have no intention of leaving anytime soon, but Windows 7 seems fine to me for that eventual day.

Off the top of my head I think they are about equal in revenue but Microsoft is close to 70% more profitable.

And as someone who loves to tinker with and tune my computer, Apple seems to me like the church of scientology.

This, Apple treat you like a leaper if god forbid you actually want to repair the damn thing yourself.

Edited to add it's actually on the share price that is better...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10168684.stm

However, Microsoft still enjoys higher profits than Apple. Its most recent annual net profit was $14.6bn (£10bn), compared with $5.7bn for Apple.

Profit wise Microsoft are still on top.

I don't even see them having the handheld market sewn up. Google's using volume and attrition to overwhelm them. This will shift if/when iPhone is available on all four US carriers to some extent, but Android is here to stay as a top three competitor. Interestingly enough, they're rumored to just have poached the interface guy at Palm who helped design the WebOS UI.

I don't think Google is playing around. Personally, I'm waiting for a new WebOS handset and/or Microsoft Phone 7 handset to hit Sprint before I consider leaving my Pre.

Oh my god this. I've had PCs last me longer than they have any right to simply by putting in a new video card or adding more RAM. And I won't void the warranty just by opening it to clean it.

It's also nice to be able to play PC games when they come out instead of waiting for the Mac version. If it ever comes.

Not saying that isn't valid, because for many models it's true.

But my MacPro has super easy access for adding more RAM, drives, etc. You more or less just slide out a drawer and click it in.

Also, it is ESSENTIAL to my creative process that I be able to safely surf porn in between bouts of "creativity."

Another poor, imprisoned soul that Steve Jobs needs to free.