Hollywood Whitewashing - Page 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 

 

But, Dan, that only leads me to a worse question: Is there a lack of black extras in Hollywood or studios trying to keep the black man down? :D

Well, yes, that was basically my point. The lack of major ethnic characters sort of fits the premise, but the lack of diversity in the backdrop of the show suggests it's still guilty of whitewash-y casting on some level, though I suppose one could argue it's just a reflection of the highly segregated nature of this city (as a resident of Philly I can tell you that the gang tends to hang out in parts of the city that really are a little "whiter," for what it's worth). Still, that's a bit of a stretch and either way it points to deeper problems.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

In the publishing world, they DARKEN people on the covers!  

 

The opposite of what was done to Rosario Dawson in the Clerks II poster (some stylistic desaturation!!!!), but with a similar intent, it seems.

But I thought silhouettes were graphically cool. Are we sure it's to conceal race? Maybe that Haulin Ass mudflap girl's been black all this time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoolong 

Doesn't one of the characters kinda sorta get a black girlfriend he picked up at a college with a bunch of black people?  It was in the first season.  Truth in Television!

Yep. Just watched that one not that long ago actually. It actually "addresses" (AKA Pokes fun at) some racial/racist topics as well.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 

But I thought silhouettes were graphically cool. Are we sure it's to conceal race? Maybe that Haulin Ass mudflap girl's been black all this time!

 

Perhaps... but the clothes conveniently remain un-silhouetted.  STYLISTIC!  

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

 

Perhaps... but the clothes conveniently remain un-silhouetted.  STYLISTIC!  

So maybe they aren't concealing race, they're making him SUPERblack.

You may have a point, Darkmite8!  Remember the superwhite stars of Knight & Day?

Something occurred to me while watching HOW THE WEST WAS WON. Why is it that everyone brings up the ridiculousness of Charlton Heston playing a Mexican in Welles' TOUCH OF EVIL (in '59 no less), but no one has a problem with Brooklyn Jew, Eli Wallach, doing the same in THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN 1 year later and THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY 7 years later?

Is it just believability here? Hypocrisy, considering how well-loved Sturges' and Leone's westerns are?

Yeah, I recognize I'm looking at historical films from older decades, but I just thought I'd stir the pot. Heston gets no free pass here. ;)

Watching DUCK YOU SUCKER. Rod Steiger (like Eli Wallach before him) as a Mexican is kinda magnetic actually.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 

Watching DUCK YOU SUCKER. Rod Steiger (like Eli Wallach before him) as a Mexican is kinda magnetic actually.
 

 

I wish I wasn't quite so cynical about this but personally if I had to guess I'd say it's because among later generations of film geeks Wallach is much better liked than Heston is.

I also think that Heston was so known for being the lantern-jawed caucasian all-american throughout the bulk of his career that his turn as Ramon Miguel Vargas is more jarring for many.

It's been a while, my friends.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/thomas-jane-fired-from-sylvester-stallone-movie-fo,58219/

Sung Kang replaces Thomas Jane in Walter Hill's Stallone movie, Headshot possibly due to a Joel Silver mandate that the project has a multi-racial duo.  Jane is understandably pissed, and doesn't mince words.  Small penis reference!

Not that big a deal, considering Jane isn't really the "young" cop specified in the script, and because he's kind of borderline direct-to-DVD at this point. Kang is probably cheaper and has a little more visibility in some circles.

I do wonder if Sly signed off on this, however, as it doesn't seem he would kick a dude like Jane to the curb.

Ultimately, it's a good thing.

Oh, it's definitely a good thing in terms of the whitewashing issue.  No complaints from me.  Kang is cool. 

Sung Kang co-starring in a Stallone action movie directed by Walter Fucking Hill is kind of surreal.  If I die before I see this I'll be pissed.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/EGGuZtvwd7j/Sung+Kang+Set+Bullet+Head/No9YhKU4PhF

Fell asleep while watching THE LAST AIRBENDER last night. Take that, M Night!

White-washing? More like snooze-inducing.

Surprised this did $319 mill worldwide.

Hey!  The man gave you a good night's sleep!  Who are you to complain!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Hey!  The man gave you a good night's sleep!  Who are you to complain!?

You mean an "M Night's sleep". It was restless. At least THE HAPPENING's  laughfest wore me out from all the knee-slapping and side-splitting. This just defeated me with its bland.

I wish the casting was my only complaint. They removed most of what made the show good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 

You mean an "M Night's sleep".

 

Damn.  I missed that train.

Watched MACHETE, which is not only amazing for having so many Hispanic actors, but for having landscape-faced and ex-con Danny Trejo in the lead. The white-washing that made me think of this thread? Steven Seagal. He's playing a Mexican, but he's the villain (end boss), so I guess it's ok. ;)

Bumping to link this piece.  I should start watching LUTHER.

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/10/19/346546/luther-producer-phillipa-giles-on-race-and-the-shows-approach-to-casting/

Cracked covers some of the issues that have been mentioned in this thread... plus a few more.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19549_5-old-timey-prejudices-that-still-show-up-in-every-movie.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

Cracked covers some of the issues that have been mentioned in this thread... plus a few more.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article_19549_5-old-timey-prejudices-that-still-show-up-in-every-movie.html

Actually he is wrong about the Pelican brief. There was actually a sex scene but Denzel didn't want to upset his black female fans, seriously.

I remember reading that Denzel's wife told him to take that scene out.  Can't remember where I read that, but it was a long time ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 

Fell asleep while watching THE LAST AIRBENDER last night. Take that, M Night!

 

White-washing? More like snooze-inducing.

 

Surprised this did $319 mill worldwide.

go watch the cartoon. seriously, more then makes up for that shitfest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malmordo 

So why did he cast Michael Parks as a Mexican?

 

A bit late on this, but Ricardo Montalban was originally cast as Esteban (The Mexican pimp)...he missed the cast read through, so Parks offered to fill in for him.  He blew QT and everyone else in the room away with his interpretation so much that QT fired Montalban and replaced him with Parks on the spot...it was a spontaneous and gut decision.

Never knew that bit of trivia.  Cool story.  Too bad for Montalban.

Do we have any Hawaiians on the boards? I'm dubious about this George Clooney-as-a-hapa business, but for all I know it could be accurate casting.

I was confused by your post.  Fortunately, it was right as The Descendants was about to start!

Clooney plays a guy whose great great (great?) grandmother was a descendant of King Kamehameha.  She married a missionary.  Clooney's family owning one of Hawaii's islands while not being very Hawaiian-looking is a part of the story.

Interesting.

I agree with the sentiment, but her Bane argument isn't very strong. Hardy was chosen because he was up and coming and showed the physicality for the role already, which is what prompted Nolan to pick him. And also Nolan seems to gravitate towards British actors anyway for his Batman movies, so it really isn't a surprise he went to that pool again.

It's rather disappointing when Bane's origin from the comics is so fascinating, but Nolan has deviated enough as it is to not be too surprised that his version of Bane is played by a white actor (a very good actor, I know).  I doubt his birthplace from the comics will factor into what TDKR says is his place of birth, if such a place is specifically referenced at all.  Besides, Nolan did the same thing when he cast a white male actor to portray Ra's al Ghul:  it works in the context of the film because we have no clear idea of his origins (and the film pretty strongly implies that Ra's is just a title, not an indication of where the current individual to use the name hails), but it would have been nice to have a non-white actor portray such an interesting, prominent character in a mainstream film.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Hardy's performance in TDKR, but...

I maintain that very little of Hollywood Whitewashing has anything to do with the eventual quality of the movies.  The creative/artistic process is brutal in terms of giving every minority a fighting chance at relevance.  But in terms of progress and equality (or even the mere illusion of it), it's absolutely defeatist to brush this stuff off with, "Oh, it's no surprise that Nolan went that way," because it basically NEVER happens the other way. 

Not even Joseph Khan, who has spoken/blogged about depictions of minorities in Hollywood, cast DETENTION (which he made with his own money) with white leads (who have a token Asian friend in the background).  Obviously, that's his decision to make and the actors he cast did good jobs.  But that's not the point when it comes to this topic.

"They went with the best actors for the job!  Nyah nyah nyah!"  That justification is clearly bullshit in cases like the whitewashing of The Last Airbender.

I mentioned this in the TOTAL RECALL thread.  Even the 90s movie had more diversity than the lily-white leads of the remake.  From Ticotin to Biel.  How is it that it seems to be getting worse?

Javier Bardem could've worked really well as Bane.  But I suppose that would seem a bit obvious after his performance in No Country.

"But the white guy is a great actor, so the identity of the character is meaningless" or "They were colorblind when they cast the role" have always been poor defenses of institutional racism to me too.  If the film has characters that very clearly should not be white, as was the case with The Last Airbender, I don't care if it's Marlon Brando giving an Oscar-worthy performance.  It's still a terrible casting practice and it's never been about the quality of the films being made.

Bardem was who I first thought of for a live-action Bane, nooj.  I also found it a little obvious post-No Country, but damn he would have been compelling. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

 I doubt his birthplace from the comics will factor into what TDKR says is his place of birth, if such a place is specifically referenced at all.

Not sure if the film itself will directly comment on his origins but Hardy has said he intentionally put on an accent to honor Bane's Caribbean heritage.

Strange.  I'm sure he has plenty of other lines in the film, but the way his voice is processed behind the mask makes that seem a little pointless.

If anything, he sounds Russian.

Michael Fassbender is attached to an Assassins Creed adaptation.  Kind of disappointed, given how many other actors that deserve a chance were suggested.

I hope they don't try to pass him off as either Altair or Ezio.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I'm really looking forward to seeing Hardy's performance in TDKR, but...

 

I maintain that very little of Hollywood Whitewashing has anything to do with the eventual quality of the movies.  The creative/artistic process is brutal in terms of giving every minority a fighting chance at relevance.  But in terms of progress and equality (or even the mere illusion of it), it's absolutely defeatist to brush this stuff off with, "Oh, it's no surprise that Nolan went that way," because it basically NEVER happens the other way. 

 

Not even Joseph Khan, who has spoken/blogged about depictions of minorities in Hollywood, cast DETENTION (which he made with his own money) with white leads (who have a token Asian friend in the background).  Obviously, that's his decision to make and the actors he cast did good jobs.  But that's not the point when it comes to this topic.

"They went with the best actors for the job!  Nyah nyah nyah!"  That justification is clearly bullshit in cases like the whitewashing of The Last Airbender.

 

I mentioned this in the TOTAL RECALL thread.  Even the 90s movie had more diversity than the lily-white leads of the remake.  From Ticotin to Biel.  How is it that it seems to be getting worse?

 

Javier Bardem could've worked really well as Bane.  But I suppose that would seem a bit obvious after his performance in No Country.

Yeah it's a bullshit excuse.  There are plenty of great ethnic actors for ANY role in ANY movie.  They're just not being given a fair shot because Hollywood seems obsessed with white washing.  And this is more disturbing considering the fact that caucasians are now a MINORITY in America.

Way back in the TDKR thread, when Bane was first announced, I mentioned and posted links about the whole Bane / whitewashing thing, and I still think it's a bit silly, even without qualifying that Bane comes from a fictional country and is biracial (in the comics his father is King Snake, a white, Brit crime lord. Not that that means a lot for the movie). I don't think Hardy's casting changes anything about what his background will be (from what I've seen and heard, it may well be that it's very, very similar). I like the idea of Bardem as Bane, but while he's a fucking great actor, I don't think he has the reputation of being a transformative one, certainly not to the point that guys like Bale and Hardy are. My point being is that Nolan had a guy who he'd worked with and respected at his disposal who he knew could do the physical side of it. It's probably as much about convenience as anything else.

Not that I don't think the rest of your argument is sound (even if I may not agree), but the fictional country argument stinks of the defense that was used for The Last Airbender and similar fictitious projects that were adapted with Hollywood whitewashing:  yes, the setting is fictional in that the story does not take place somewhere in real-world Asia (as far as the material suggests), but it was informed by such strong real-world cultures and in fact contained elements of those cultures without changing them that to say it being fictional makes anything possible within it is a little dangerous, because it's one of the many justifications for these practices.  The country being fictional does not make it okay to then rewrite everything, especially if the country has strong, obvious influences and make-up.  That this defense is often used when whites are prominently populating the world at the expense of its more varied influences makes it all a little too uncomfortable.

I'm sticking to the Ed Zwick defense: white people are awesome everywhere. 

Honestly, when I bring up the fictional country it's because Bane's heritage has been generally ignored in the comics. It was only ever brought up when they wanted him to feel exotic. Chuck Dixon, Moench, and Nolan (not Christopher) created a character meant to be Latin-American of a sort (with a little Che thrown in), only to put the dude in a luchador mask. This aspect of the character was never handled with a whole lot of thought or delicacy.

Speaking of whitewashing, I shudder to think which 20-something whitey boy will end up with the role of Hiro Protagonist if the Cornish directed adaption of SNOW CRASH ever happens.  Hiro is half black, and half japanese.  If Dwayne Johnson were shorter and scrawnier, he would be about perfect for the role genetically speaking. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

I'm sticking to the Ed Zwick defense: white people are awesome everywhere. 

 

Honestly, when I bring up the fictional country it's because Bane's heritage has been generally ignored in the comics. It was only ever brought up when they wanted him to feel exotic. Chuck Dixon, Moench, and Nolan (not Christopher) created a character meant to be Latin-American of a sort (with a little Che thrown in), only to put the dude in a luchador mask. This aspect of the character was never handled with a whole lot of thought or delicacy.

Fair enough.  I agree that, from what I have read, only a few stories have ever dealt with Bane's origins in a thoughtful way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambler 

 

  And this is more disturbing considering the fact that caucasians are now a MINORITY in America.

What? 

US Census 2010:

196,817,552 - White Alone (those who did not claim mixed race status), Non-Hispanic or Latino

308,745,538 - Total US population.

63.74% of America is Whitey McWhiterson

Even if you add what is estimated to be the non-legal immigrant community and make the total population 330 million, that makes the white population 59%

Now, that being said, Hollywood Whitewashing is amazing to me in this day and age. Cast the movie without regard to race or ethnicity if race and ethnicity is not the focus of your film.  I loved that Thor's cast was more diverse than a traditional Norse Mythology tale would have normally been. ABC's 1997 TV movie Cinderella has Victor Garber and Whoopi Goldberg as parents to Paolo Montalban who then falls in love with Brandy, the step daughter of Bernadette Peters, only to have Whitney Houston as her fairy Godmother. It is possible!

At this point it is institutional. As I have said in other threads and in this one, people will see movies with people of color not named Denzel Washington or Will Smith as leads. They will not care if the best friend is black or Asian.  As much as we shit on Tyler Perry (and there are many reasons to) he makes Non-Madea movies which people of all races see.  I want to go see End of Watch not because of Jake Gyllenhall, but because of Michael Peña.

In some parallel dimension, Luis Guzman was the star of Punch-Drunk Love with Adam Sandler as the calm warehouse manager, and it was glorious. Thor was played by Idris Elba with Chris Hemsworth giving an awesome performance as Heimdell. Donald Glover played Spiderman in Sony's reboot and became a megastar with his triple threat music, acting, and writing abilities.

That was a good video find, Ambler.  The part that struck me the most was the comment on how whitewashing real, historical figures (as was done in Extraordinary Measures and Argo) was robbing those ethnic communities of real life heroes, and continuing the practice of whitewashing history itself.  It makes me think of the thousands of artists, inventors, and public servants of color who never got recognition for their accomplishments and contributions to our society.  It just goes to show that money is so all-corrupting that people are willing to rewrite history for the sake of it, ignoring the social consequences of doing so.

I think we must be careful of the "best actor/actress for the role" and "this is only fiction" arguments when discussing diversity in film.  The fact is, just about all changes in source material result in movies becoming whiter (and not the other way around) than their inspirations, often with actors and actresses who are woefully miscast, or inferior to actors of color who could have raised the quality of those films.  We have decades of social experiments and studies that illustrate the dangerous effects this lack of diversity in media causes.  Regardless of whether Tom Hardy is an excellent actor (and he is), the fact that when directors call upon those whom they are familiar with - and those calls are just about always for white actors they have previously worked with - it means that the playing field is even more stacked against minority actors finding roles (much less good ones).  When Nolan, Scorsese, Apatow, etc are giving roles again and again to the same groups of white actors and actresses who certainly need no help getting them, how are the Ejiofors, Elbas, Chos, Penas, (and their female colleagues) etc supposed to be able to compete on an even basis?

Like Brick pointed out above, the countdown until Snow Crash potentially gets whitewashed is on.  Hopefully the list includes more than every white male actor under 35...and Will Smith.

Racebending.com gets to ask the cast & crew of COMMUNITY some questions about diversity in Hollywood:

http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/community/

It would have been interesting to hear Chevy Chase's thoughts on the matter.  Hahaha.

Hahahaha.

"What the fuck is racebending?  Is that some gay thing?"

Chevy needs to reprise his Clark Griswold role and film a classic rant in front of Beverly D'Angelo and two random kids about Hollywood racism.  Then he needs to become Racebending.com's spokesman.

You hear me, Chevy?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTyres 

 

 

What? 

 

US Census 2010:

 

196,817,552 - White Alone (those who did not claim mixed race status), Non-Hispanic or Latino

308,745,538 - Total US population.

 

63.74% of America is Whitey McWhiterson

Even if you add what is estimated to be the non-legal immigrant community and make the total population 330 million, that makes the white population 59%

Try some 2012 data.

That article says there were more minority births than white births.

"Overall, minorities in the U.S. increased 1.9 percent to 114 million, or 36.6 percent of the total U.S. population. But with the weak economy resulting in fewer Hispanics entering the U.S., demographers project that the tipping point when minorities become the majority in America may not happen as early as some predicted. After the 2010 census, experts suggested it could happen by 2040."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curiosity Cosby 

That article says there were more minority births than white births.

 

"Overall, minorities in the U.S. increased 1.9 percent to 114 million, or 36.6 percent of the total U.S. population. But with the weak economy resulting in fewer Hispanics entering the U.S., demographers project that the tipping point when minorities become the majority in America may not happen as early as some predicted. After the 2010 census, experts suggested it could happen by 2040."

Yes.  I should have been more specific.  But whites account for roughly only a little over half the population.  It's still no excuse for white washed films living in some netherworld where whites are 90% of the population.  And whites are certainly a minority on the planet.  There are far more Asians, blacks and latinos than whites on planet earth.  There are more than 6.5 billion people in the world.  Nearly 2/3 of them are Asians living on less than 1/3 of the land.   Only about 5% of the world's people live in North America.