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Hollywood Whitewashing - Page 13

post #601 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

Regarding the preferences of the international market: I don't think they're primarily race-based. American films have dominated for decades because they're generally better-produced, better-shot, better-financed. To cite a historical example: in China in the 1920s, local filmmakers couldn't compete with Hollywood. But then talking pictures came in-- and in an age before dubbing, foreign films ceased to be easily translatable. There was a subsequent boom in Chinese silent film, lasting into the late 30s, but it had nothing to do with the complexion of the actors and everything to do with accessible product.

 

American films still have a reputation for delivering the highest-quality audiovisual experience. They don't have a lot of motivation to alter their casting methods.

 

Certainly part of Hollywood's success overseas has been the sheer quality of the film making (regardless of the quality of the scripts), but there is a strong belief among the studios that American films fronted by non-white actors and films that have a significant non-white cast do considerably less business overseas than those with white leads.  This results in those films not getting international releases, or a select few getting very limited international releases.  It also results in studios outright refusing to consider actors of color for lead roles in large releases, those big blockbusters that they are counting on to double or triple their box office take.  Spike Lee, for one, has long argued against this traditional Hollywood thinking (and his Denzel-fronted flick, Inside Man, did over half its business internationally, proving his point).  But to this day he can barely get his projects greenlit despite showing a film by a black director with a black lead could "travel" (despite his desire to make it, and despite its international profits, he still hasn't gotten a greenlight on a sequel to Inside Man, if you can believe it).

 

We agree that international audiences aren't swayed in a significant manner one way or the other by the ethnicity of the lead - a point I was making in my previous post if that wasn't clear.  But I don't believe Hollywood isn't motivated to change their casting because they feel they're already making a satisfactory amount of money overseas.  Their willingness to compromise in the face of pressure from the Chinese government being one example of them trying to squeeze a few more dollars out of an international market that is already providing lucrative; the fear that a film titled, simply, "Captain America" wouldn't fly overseas was another - it's why "The First Avenger" was globbed on, to pacify those they thought might be a little anti-American or, more specifically, anti-America being up its own ass; making GI Joe an international organization rather than sticking to its US-based roots was probably the most gratuitously pandering to perceived international sensibilities of any recent flicks.  I also think they rely on a very specific formula that they believe appeals to international audiences, and part of that formula is a white lead (Prince of Persia and the Last Airbender being two examples of films that were seemingly whitewashed specifically to appeal to larger audiences).

 

If they thought casting an Arab man would have boosted PoP's take by any percentage, they would have done so.  If they thought casting Idris Elba would boost sales for a James Bond movie, I'm pretty sure you would see that.  In fact, they tried once before casting a black actress in a role because of her name: Halle Berry as Catwoman.  After failing to land some high profile white actresses, they figured that Berry would bring in more dollars than an unknown white actress.  Well, they didn't count on the movie being such a disaster - though it did bring in slightly more overseas than it did domestically so they couldn't put that one on international tastes.  And I'm sure the lesson they took out of that wasn't "make a better movie" but rather "cast a big name white actress and it doesn't matter if your movie sucks."

 

One reason I'm a big fan of the Wachowskis is that they have shown themselves to be fearless when it comes to the ethnic makeup of their films.  They tried to get Will Smith as their lead in The Matrix.  Despite failing to do so, they still put together one of the most diverse casts for a blockbuster in recent memory, with a central role going to Laurence Fishburne and a future society that puts other sci-fi films to shame when it comes to diversity.  And their latest release, Cloud Atlas, seems to include a very front and center romance between Tom Hanks and Halle Berry.  But despite numerous examples to the contrary, Hollywood still acts as if non-white casting is box office suicide.

post #602 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajuice7 View Post

 

We agree that international audiences aren't swayed in a significant manner one way or the other by the ethnicity of the lead - a point I was making in my previous post if that wasn't clear. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true.  Particularly for Asian countries.  I think they'd be much less likely to go see a film starring a minority lead unless said lead had already been established as a huge star.

post #603 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajuice7 View Post

 

One reason I'm a big fan of the Wachowskis is that they have shown themselves to be fearless when it comes to the ethnic makeup of their films.  They tried to get Will Smith as their lead in The Matrix.  Despite failing to do so, they still put together one of the most diverse casts for a blockbuster in recent memory, with a central role going to Laurence Fishburne and a future society that puts other sci-fi films to shame when it comes to diversity.  And their latest release, Cloud Atlas, seems to include a very front and center romance between Tom Hanks and Halle Berry.  But despite numerous examples to the contrary, Hollywood still acts as if non-white casting is box office suicide.

 

How does Speed Racer fit into this?

post #604 of 783

Speed Racer does feature as my girlfriend labels him "Korean SexPrince" Rain.

post #605 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

 

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true.  Particularly for Asian countries.  I think they'd be much less likely to go see a film starring a minority lead unless said lead had already been established as a huge star.

 

I would like to think it's less about the actor and more about the type of film.  I don't think Black Panther, for instance, a Marvel Superhero film would see much a hit at the Asian box office.  If you tried to open, say, Love and Basketball, Madea Goes to Jail, or Think Like a Man, then you would have some big cultural problems come into play.  But those aren't the movies getting international releases from Hollywood studios.  And I think any film would take a little hit overseas without a big name at the center of it.  I like Taylor Kitsch, and I think he was one of the few non-problems with the lack of success of John Carter, but having a higher profile actor in that role would have made that film more money domestically and abroad.  He just doesn't move the needle. 

 

Certainly Asian movie-goers are going to have their preconceptions about what types of roles black actors are "acceptable" in (I've seen a ton of Japanese television on tape thanks to a good friend who's visited often and been kind enough to indulge my requests, and I can't say I've been completely comfortable with what I've seen of the depiction of blacks).  However, I haven't really seen any disinterest or rejection of non-white actors in action movies, thrillers, sci-fi, superhero films, war epics, or other genres that get big international releases.  In fact, I was pleased to hear that one of my recent favorites The Karate Kid (the Jaden Smith one) was well received in China and elsewhere.  I happen to think it was a fantastic remake, and if you put out a great property (and having Jackie Chan give a great performance doesn't hurt) then audiences will more easily overlook ethnicity.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

 

How does Speed Racer fit into this?

 

You mean the property based off a cartoon with a mostly white-looking cast?  I mean I would have loved Donald Glover in the lead role as much as the next guy, but we black dudes can't take ALL of the roles.

 

Should they always have a non-white lead or central cast?  It's ridiculous to hold any filmmaker to that standard; it would be just as bad as them always whitewashing their films.  As much as I love their casting choices, they're not Affirmative Action R Us.  "Hey Lana, Andy, you gots any black folks in that film?  No?  Get da fuck outta here.  No, really, get the hell outta here, we're hiring Tarantino."

post #606 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by dajuice7 View Post

D'Esposito and Marvel are obviously trying to crack the "problem" of a character whose story, they believe, may alienate white movie goers.  The question is, does this problem really exist? 

 

No.  Will it alienate frothing at the mouth racists?  Probably.  But your average, reasonably sane white moviegoer who saw Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and The Avengers?  No.

 

If they sold Black Panther as part of the Marvel Universe having to do with The Avengers and the fact that Cap's shield was mined from their land, all those race problems go out the window.  Audiences respect confidence in marketing...they are sheep, and are easily led to the box office by TV advertising.  If Marvel/Disney accepts Black Panther, the audience will too.  If Marvel makes a Black Panther movie with the same high production values of their previous films, audiences will show up to stay in the loop because it is a universe now.  Why skip Black Panther when he will show up in the Avengers 2 anyway?  They wont have a choice.

 

It's important to remember that Black Panther wont be just another black film...it is part of the Marvel movieverse.  And all this is assuming a Black Panther film wouldn't necessarily make money, which is a pretty big assumption considering the Blade films.

post #607 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

No.  Will it alienate frothing at the mouth racists?  Probably.  But your average, reasonably sane white moviegoer who saw Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and The Avengers?  No.

 

If they sold Black Panther as part of the Marvel Universe having to do with The Avengers and the fact that Cap's shield was mined from their land, all those race problems go out the window.  Audiences respect confidence in marketing...they are sheep, and are easily led to the box office by TV advertising.  If Marvel/Disney accepts Black Panther, the audience will too.  If Marvel makes a Black Panther movie with the same high production values of their previous films, audiences will show up to stay in the loop because it is a universe now.  Why skip Black Panther when he will show up in the Avengers 2 anyway?  They wont have a choice.

 

It's important to remember that Black Panther wont be just another black film...it is part of the Marvel movieverse.  And all this is assuming a Black Panther film wouldn't necessarily make money, which is a pretty big assumption considering the Blade films.

 

Agree 100%.  You make two great points.  Incorporating Black Panther into the larger Avengers universe, and the even larger Marvel Universe, would mitigate any worries about what exactly Black Panther is all about.  He's a superhero and leader first and foremost and by presenting him as a natural part of the Marvel pantheon they would be ensuring that he is viewed in that manner rather than as some sort of sociopolitical lightning rod.  Marvel has a great opportunity to display incredible diversity throughout their brand, especially with the Japan-set Wolverine coming up.  When Singer's X-Men films came out, and particularly when Vaughan's First Class was released, I wondered how audiences would react to Magneto's Jewish heritage and holocaust experience.  They seemed to find it compelling.  I think T'Challa's experience could be just as well done and not alienate moviegoers.

 

Also, like you pointed out, I think Marvel's acceptance of Black Panther as one of its own, and selling him that way with as much enthusiasm and care as they've done with Cap and Thor and Iron Man, will only help audiences accept the character.  This is part of the reason why I feel Hollywood films, including superhero films, sell well overseas, the confidence with which they are sold.  If Hollywood is signaling to you that Idris Elba, Sung Kang, or Michael Pena is a star, then audiences will eagerly anticipate their projects.  Hollywood doesn't just sell movies, they sell culture and "cool."  If they treat Black Panther like the cool new kid, he'll be accepted as such.  If they dick around and put out a bastardized story with a small budget and confused script, people are going to wonder what the hell this T'Challa shit is.

post #608 of 783

Great points.  

 

I think that's why Blade did so well...New Line was confident in what they had and it showed in the marketing.  Audiences respond to that stuff, regardless of the ethnicity of the characters.  

 

Not to mention, not only do you have the white audience for a confidently made and marketed Black Panther Marvel film, but you have a HUGE black audience who may not normally go to a comic book movie, simply in order to support racial diversity in Hollywood.  Suddenly you have an even BIGGER audience for Avengers 2.  The chance to make huge sums of money is there, which makes Marvel's attitude all the more puzzling.

post #609 of 783

If there have been any complaints so far about a black Nick Fury (apart from Jackson largely phoning it in) I haven't heard them.

post #610 of 783

So, while watching Cloud Atlas, I was constantly thinking about this thread.  While Tom Hanks never plays anyone other than a Caucasian, you have Halle Berry playing a dusky skinned Jewish woman, Doona Bae playing a hispanic woman and a ginger woman. You have Hugo Weaving playing a woman, a voodoo demon, and what was supposed to be a NeoKorean, but I thought he turned out more Romulan. Jim Sturgess takes a try on NeoKorean. It seems like a film that will play as the antithesis of this thread.

 

I have more to say, but I am about to see Paranormal Activity 4. A movie filled with whitey getting killed by a demon named Toby.

post #611 of 783
Since the Wachowskis have a much better track record of opening a wider net for variety in casting, I was fully prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt after seeing the Asian makeup in the trailer. I know they have legit reasons for doing what they're doing. Whether or not the execution is lacking...
post #612 of 783

Stumbled onto a pretty interesting set of videos on negative black stereotypes in the media...worth checking out.  The last two videos are the most interesting.  He even goes into how even when blacks are cast in films, their role is still created by and dictated by white producers...so it remains whitewashed in a sense.

 

 

 

 

 

post #613 of 783

Well, unless you're in a Tyler Perry movie.

post #614 of 783

So, uh... I just saw "The Impossible." I knew going in it was going to be about a rich white family affected by the Tsunami that hit Thailand in 2004, with Ewan McGregor and Naomi Watts.

 

The most amusing part is at the end credits, where they show a picture and the names of the actual family depicted in the film. Holy shit, they're all HISPANIC.

 

I hope I'm not being overly delicate when I say that I had... deep issues with this.

post #615 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

 

The most amusing part is at the end credits, where they show a picture and the names of the actual family depicted in the film. Holy shit, they're all HISPANIC.

 

Wow.

post #616 of 783

Not surprised.

 

I mean... it isn't enough already that the movie takes that specific disaster and tells a WHITE story to begin with. 

post #617 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Not surprised.

 

I mean... it isn't enough already that the movie takes that specific disaster and tells a WHITE story to begin with. 

 

Thousands of brown people may have died, but this one white family was severely inconvenienced. Isn't that the same thing?

post #618 of 783

Well, when you put it that way...

post #619 of 783

I'd like to share a revelation I had this morning about racism.  Not that this thread is specifically about racism, but I think it's a factor in the discussion and the whitewashing phenomenon in general.

 

I don't even think the term "racism" applies anymore in modern society.

 

More than a few times in my life I've spoken to someone on the phone whom I'd never met, which led to a meeting sometime later.  Sometimes, but not very often, the person who could be black, white or asian or latino, is surprised than I'm black.  The most obvious reason is because of my speaking voice.  In more ignorant circles I could be accused of sounding "white".  But I merely speak proper english, am articulate, and enunciate every word.

 

This belief that speaking voice is indicative of being white or black or asian or latino is kind of telling.  Ethnic accents play a factor, but that is more cultural.  I've seen white guys who sounded "black".  It means that racism now is more about superficial presentation rather than skin color.  If a black guy walks into a bar and he's wearing baggy clothes, sideways baseball cap, flashy jewelry, etc. there's a perception of that person that precedes him.  He's automatically categorized before he even opens his mouth or does anything...hip hop loving, flamboyant attitude having, etc...  Now if he opened his mouth and sounded "white" people would be doubly confused.  "You sound so articulate, why are you dressed like that?"  If the same black guy had walked in wearing a blazer and khaki pants, well that's another perception of the exact same person.  Nothing has changed except his outfit...yet a reputation precedes him.  He is more likely to be accepted before he opens his mouth or does anything.

 

So it kind of makes whitewashing even more absurd when I take all that into account.  You're really talking about perception based on presentation rather than actual race.  Yet there remains this aversion to giving black, asian and latino actors more of a presence in cinema.  The great thing about movies is they create their own reality.  Yet Hollywood refuses to allow a reality where race isn't an issue and the favoritism towards caucasian actors was reduced.


Edited by Ambler - 11/21/12 at 9:43am
post #620 of 783

Hey Ambler, can you post the name of those videos. They're not working or linking to the videos on youtube.

post #621 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.Vasquez View Post

Hey Ambler, can you post the name of those videos. They're not working or linking to the videos on youtube.

 

Sorry.  That happens sometimes and I'm not sure why.  Here is the first one, the other vids can be accessed on the uploader's channel.  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaeXdNR59U8

post #622 of 783

Some more whitewashing of Asians... but this time outside of Hollywood and cinema in general.

 

This is for... THE THEATER: where the proscenium arch should allow for a greater ability for the suspension of disbelief at color-blind casting... that more often seems to go in one direction.

 

http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-orphan-of-zhao-rsc-casts-asians-as.html

Quote:
The news that the revered Royal Shakespeare Company has not only given a measly three out of 17 roles in their production of the Chinese classic, The Orphan of Zhao, to Asian actors, but that these parts are for two dogs and a maid, has quite gasted my flabber. None of the main roles are played by Asians.[EDIT: two of the three asians and one black actor are working ONE puppet dog.]

 

 

 

 

And an instance of blackface in Germany... for which the playright took away the rights for the theater to put on the play at all.  GOOD ON HIM!

 

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/171262-Pulitzer-Winner-Bruce-Norris-Retracts-Rights-to-German-Troupes-Clybourne-Park-Over-Blackface-Casting

 

Quote:
Bruce Norris, whose play Clybourne Park features white and African-American characters — to Pulitzer Prize-honored, Tony Award-winning effect — stripped a German theatre company of rights to his drama when he learned that a white actress would be using makeup to play a black woman.
post #623 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Some more whitewashing of Asians... but this time outside of Hollywood and cinema in general.

 

This is for... THE THEATER: where the proscenium arch should allow for a greater ability for the suspension of disbelief at color-blind casting... that more often seems to go in one direction.

 

http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-orphan-of-zhao-rsc-casts-asians-as.html

 

 

 

 

And an instance of blackface in Germany... for which the playright took away the rights for the theater to put on the play at all.  GOOD ON HIM!

 

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/171262-Pulitzer-Winner-Bruce-Norris-Retracts-Rights-to-German-Troupes-Clybourne-Park-Over-Blackface-Casting

 

 

Wonders never cease...

post #624 of 783

I actually saw a poster for Orphan Of Zhao today and thought "hmm, might wanna give this a shot". Definitley not going now.

post #625 of 783

I think it's easy for non minorities to blow this stuff off and not realize how painful it can be to those it affects.  I ran into this little eye opening piece that is not necessarily movie related, but is related to how minorities are treated differently in all walks of life....and the movie industry seems to follow suit.

post #626 of 783

You want to actually HEAR a non-minority blow this stuff off and have a hard time seeing the big picture?

 

Listen to this old After Dark episode of the Slashfilmcast in which frequent guest Dan Trachtenberg JUST DOESN'T GET IT.

 

http://www.slashfilm.com/the-filmcast-after-dark-ep-107-racebending-postmortem/

 

It's absolutely frustrating to listen to.  Trachtenberg constantly says that he understands what the others are saying, but never once does it sound like he means it.  And he seems to be aware of this too, as he says he can sympathize, but not empathize.  He's too busy defending the 'artistic right' of M. Night to fuck up with integrity without being hounded by the Affirmative Action police.

 

Seriously, at this point... artistic freedom is starting to sound as much of a deflection as the quest for profits when it comes to this issue.  Trachtenberg sounds like a lower middle class citizen who argues against a greater good wanting to defend something he'll want should he ever make it to M. Night's level of success.

 

I'm reading a LOT of negativity into what Trachtenberg said, I admit.  That's just how frustrating it was to listen to him constantly brush the issue aside.


Edited by mcnooj82 - 12/22/12 at 11:05am
post #627 of 783

I think participating in my African American Literature class this past semester has helped widen my perspective on this issue. While I'm still not ready to call "racist!" on every potentially stereotypical depiction of race ever (context of the work is important and all), I'm definitely going to be more cautious about considering this sort of thing, or about appearing to "blow it off".

 

We even watched some stuff, like a great documentary called "The Color of Fear" and the episode of All in the Family where Sammy Davis, Jr. guest starred as himself and got to take the piss out of Archie the whole time.

post #628 of 783

I am going to check out that podcast, thanks nooj.

 

As an aside, I was reading some of Jamie Foxx's Django Unchained interview with Vibe magazine...I think some blacks are a little too naive about racial issues and can take it a bit too far.  But I also reacted to something in the comments section on one of the pages...

 

 

Quote:
Why does everything have to be about race? If that is the way he chooses to live, what a miserable existence. People are people, everything does not revolve around the color of our skin, and as far as I know, no one of my generation or my parents' generation ever owned a slave. I will not apologize for something I never did, and people need to move forward.

 

*cough*white privilege*cough*

 

Actually everything in America does revolve around race and skin color.  Anyone who views that Prime Time piece I just posted will see that race plays a factor in everything...as soon as a minority leaves the house, absolutely every person or situation he comes into contact with has some sort of detrimental affect on his/her existence.  Blacks don't make everything about race...everything is already about race, without their help.

post #629 of 783

Heh.  Turns out Trachtenberg is the dude who directed that gritty Portal fanfilm that made a bit of a splash last year.

 

As for Jamie Foxx's interview, how much of that naivete do you think is simply him playing the politics of Hollywood?

post #630 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

 

As for Jamie Foxx's interview, how much of that naivete do you think is simply him playing the politics of Hollywood?

 

Foxx is smart...you can't be where he is without some level of intelligence.  But I think alot of blacks use racism as some sort of badge of honor...something they can use to excuse ignorant and stupid behavior.  As if they are owed something, and every white person is guilty by association.

 

I try to take a sensible approach to racism...I don't react to it when it happens to me, but as a minority, you just kill the competition by being better than everybody else.  I can't remember who said it but there was a quote, something along the lines of "if you're black you have to be four times better than whites just to be seen as equal."

post #631 of 783

Is there a link to the Foxx interview you're referring to?  I was only able to find a tiny thing of him hyping Django...

 

 

... in which I found THIS intriguing nugget.  You think it's true??

 

Quote:
Foxx says Django Unchained has been a surprise for many who had preconceived notions about the film. “I remember we debuted the trailer at the BET Awards and there were a lot of people who didn’t know what the picture would look like,” he states. “People flipped out. I even ran into Spike Lee and he said, ‘Oh my God. I’m not going to say anything bad about this one.’ He was blown away.”
post #632 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Is there a link to the Foxx interview you're referring to?  I was only able to find a tiny thing of him hyping Django...

 

 

... in which I found THIS intriguing nugget.  You think it's true??

 

 

Considering that Spike Lee isn't generally the shy retiring sort who would keep things to himself if he's inaccurately quoted, I'd tend to think if i wasn't true we would've heard it by now.

post #633 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Is there a link to the Foxx interview you're referring to?  

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/django-star-foxx-life-built-race-article-1.1220275

 

Yeah I was pretty shocked by the Spike Lee thing...apparently that was his reaction to the trailer though, which they premiered at the BET awards...it might be a different story if/when he sees the film.

post #634 of 783
Quote:
But despite the controversy, Foxx maintained that it's important for Hollywood to continue to make movies about slavery.

 

This popped out me a bit, because a mentor of mine (also black) wrote a screenplay called FREEMAN a while back (it was already done when he showed it to people he trusted back in '09).  It was a western action/adventure film about a runaway ex-slave who is framed by greedy white men.  It was sent out to the people representing Foxx, Cheadle, and Terrence Howard...

 

Foxx's people seemed interested, but my friend was told that Foxx wasn't interested in playing a slave at that time.  Or something like that.  I've always wondered if that was just Foxx's representatives talking.

 

If anyone has any interest in that screenplay, my friend published it as a book containing both the screenplay and his commentary on the discipline of writing it.  It's a good read.  Highly recommend!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Freeman-Novella-Screenplay-Brian-McDonald/dp/1935961217

 

If Brian had been able to get his screenplay produced, it certainly wouldn't have been anywhere close to 3 hours.  Hehehe.  He's such an old-school screenwriter.

 

I recall Brian also speaking a bit about what minorities have to do in order to survive in a white majority.  Interesting discussion.  (that topic happens around the 26 minute mark)

 


Edited by mcnooj82 - 12/22/12 at 3:20pm
post #635 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

 

Considering that Spike Lee isn't generally the shy retiring sort who would keep things to himself if he's inaccurately quoted, I'd tend to think if i wasn't true we would've heard it by now.

O RLY?

http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/surprise-spike-lee-wont-see-django-unchained-calls-it-disrespectful-to-ancestors

post #636 of 783
Quote:
"I cant speak on it 'cause I'm not gonna see it... All I'm going to say is that it's disrespectful to my ancestors. That's just me... I'm not speaking on behalf of anybody else."

 

He says he wont see it, then says it's disrespectful to his ancestors.  I think all of Spike Lee's flops are finally turning his brain into mush.

post #637 of 783
post #638 of 783

Spike Lee is a great filmmaker who's always been an insufferable prick. Nothing about this should come as a surprise.

 

What makes me mad is not that Lee is confrontational towards Tarantino, that's been the case for years now. And even though I disagree with his viewpoint regarding Tarantino's use of the word 'nigger', I can still understand where he's coming from. But the above statement is so fucking narrow-minded, as it dictates that art can only deal with heavy subject matter in a singularly prescribed manner. I expect that to be the view taken by pundits and cultural gatekeepers, those fucking assholes, but not other artists.

post #639 of 783

Wonder what you guys make of the case of Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins.

 

It has Joel Grey in "Yellow Face" as a Korean Martial Arts master.

 

On the one hand, why couldn't they get an actual Koren Martial Artist to play a Korean Martial Artist?

 

On the other hand, the character in question is very racists himself, constantly putting down all non-Koreans, so maybe the casting defuses what could have been a negative portrayal?

 

(Grey is great in the role by the way).

post #640 of 783

Chiun isn't a Korean martial arts master, he's a super-assassin from a small fishing village in North Korea - created by a couple of guys from New Jersey who based him on their Jewish mothers.

 

Anyhow, I just wanted an excuse to link some of the greatest opening credits in history.

 

 


 

post #641 of 783

On the privilege of white directors tackling racial issues:

 

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/28/could_a_black_director_have_made_django/

post #642 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Wonder what you guys make of the case of Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins.

 

It has Joel Grey in "Yellow Face" as a Korean Martial Arts master.

 

On the one hand, why couldn't they get an actual Koren Martial Artist to play a Korean Martial Artist?

 

On the other hand, the character in question is very racists himself, constantly putting down all non-Koreans, so maybe the casting defuses what could have been a negative portrayal?

 

(Grey is great in the role by the way).

 

Man, that is a tough one. Can you imagine a (spectacular) make-up job like that getting an Oscar nomination in this day and age?

 

But I don't know if there was anyone else you could have cast in the role of Chiun at the time. And Grey is so great in it-- the interactions between him and Ward are just about the only redeeming thing about that thoroughly lackluster movie. It's always made me think that any other prospective adaptation of "The Destroyer" books would be folly, just because none of them could top that aspect of "Remo Williams".

post #643 of 783

Reading the previous conversation about Marvel's hesitation with greenlighting BLACK PANTHER... Does anyone think the loaded title might be the (African) elephant in the room, beyond just race of lead character? Curiously, no one mentioned that at all (not to say that studio cowardice in regards to the marketability of a random black actor isn't in question).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

post #644 of 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post

Reading the previous conversation about Marvel's hesitation with greenlighting BLACK PANTHER... Does anyone think the loaded title might be the (African) elephant in the room, beyond just race of lead character? Curiously, no one mentioned that at all (not to say that studio cowardice in regards to the marketability of a random black actor isn't in question).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party

I've actually mentioned before I thought the film's title would give Disney cold feet.
post #645 of 783

So give him a "THE" to make him an individual by that name.

 

People do it to Batman all the time, or are they trying to distinguish him from a similarly-named concept?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_%28military%29

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_tool_for_methylation_analysis
 

post #646 of 783
I think you'd still get a completely uninformed massive right wing freak out, and Disney is terrified of getting "political". They wouldn't want their marvel brand asscociated with that kind of controversy.
post #647 of 783

Which is a damn shame, because Black Panther is a great property.  I hate it when decisions get made because of the way a vocal, but small minority MAY react to something. You are the spawn of Walt F'ing Disney. Grow some cajones.

post #648 of 783
Well said, Mr. Tyres.
post #649 of 783

William Fichtner has been cast as Shredder in the new Michael Bay produced Ninja Turtles movie.  Love Fichtner to pieces, but...

 

The character Shredder is a Japanese man named Oroku Saki.

 

But who cares, right?

post #650 of 783

Oh lord.

 

But I do love me some Fichtner...

 

Maybe they're pulling some DIE ANOTHER DAY stuff.  Hahahahah.  Who am I kidding?  They don't have to.  Nobody else will care.

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