Burn Notice Season 4 - Page 3

I gotta say, they crammed a shitload of plot into 42 minutes. Probably one of the best episodes in a long time.

Yeah,the actor who plays Michael's brother Nate must have had his inspiration from a coked-out Corey Haim.

not that good an episode, but the season finale is 2-hours long next week. Let's hope it's worth it.

So, I don't mean to be a cheeseball, but I thought the ending was pretty epic. *shrug* - at least for a fun cable TV show that doesn't make an effort to be anything other than well-made and entertaining.

And I have to give the writers credit. Even though I knew this show had a 5th and 6th season coming, I really felt anxiety with Michael and Fi in the hut/building. I had completely spaced Sam working with the congressman. So in the final minutes I was holding my breath trying to consider: 1) ok are they going to make this go off an kill Fi and injure Michael? 2) did they introduce Jessie so they could have him takeover?

I mean, since they already have a 5th and 6th season clinched, it seemed reasonable that they could have shaken things up and not had to worry about backlash as much as other shows that struggle to get just the next season green-lit.

Burn Notice did what Dexter failed to do for the finale. That was; deliver excitement and tension all the way to the last second. Burn Notice had me holding my breath a bit (and made my wife cry), while Dexter just ended with a wet, silent fart.

*shrug* I liked it.

I thought they could have just ended the show right there. Nice ending.

I don't kow who is a worst shot. Michael and crew or Vaughn's crew. Nothing more amazing than that many shots getting fired and not one person was even wounded. Hell they even left Tim Matheson alive for really no good reason at all. Which means of course that he will be coming back to endanger them and others lives. People were complaining about Dexter's logic problems but wow.

"The Michael I knew would have cut a bloody path", yeah I want that Michael for just one fucking episode. I have no idea what happened to "dark Michael". Seriously it would make sense if he was super scary in the first season and over the course of the show he has softened up. However he was like that the second he was in Miami.

Anyway yeah I agree this really should have been the ending. I dug the idea of bringing all the big bads back. Anyone remember why Michael was burned in the first place? Thats not a criticism of the show even I honestly can't remember.

"The Season 2 finale revealed that Michael was burned in order for him to be recruited by Carla's mysterious organization."

Which is now Vaugn's mysterious organization since Carla got herself dead at some point.

ETA: It was also Frasier's Dad's mysterious organization, but I don't remember his state of dead/not-dead at the moment.

Ohh alright thanks. I really had no idea Vaughn was part of the same agency as Carla. So Frasier's dad was a higher up or somehow lower? I don't remember him getting killed either so he must be alive. So there was a rogue military group which burned Michael and other spies in order to recruit them. And they were some sort of mercenary gun for hire business right?

He's still around, Garret Dillahunt tried to kill him and Michael stopped him at the end of the last season.

My only gripe with the finale is that every time they started doing a dramatic reveal of an old character, I was disappointed when it wasn't Dillahunt.

I get the impression that that Michael never existed. Matheson talks about the "bloody Michael", then almost immediately Michael suggests an old plan they used that was designed around not hurting anyone. I suspect that if they ever showed "pre-Burned Michael", we'd see the same guy, setting people up to take each other out.

I mean, think about how an outsider would view the Burn Notice-era Michael. Nearly every case he takes ends up with the bad guy dead or disappeared. With limited information, he'd look like Dexter.

As for next season, if they do manage to avoid yet another giant reset, I'll be happily shocked.

No he did exist according to the show. Tim Matheson evil agent wasn't some outsider. At one point he worked for the good guys, he worked with Michael side by side and they trusted each other with their lives. He was a mentor figure and taught him "everything he knows".

Look if Michael used to be some sort of Punisher style agent and now with the influence of his mother,Fiona and Sam he has become kinder and gentler thats fine. That would actually be character evoluution(something Dexter actually does). The problem is that he had to start off as dark Michael. Meaning in season one he should have been that Michael and then slowly lightened up throughout the series. As a matter of fact it would have been interesting because now that he is going back to work it asks the question can he still kill for his country. But thats not what happened, he has operated the same way since the second he woke up in Miami.

And yeah I agree so many people end up dead or disppeared after one of Michael's mission. However thats a weird moral question. So Michael believes it's wrong to just simply kill a person even if they are doing something horrible. Alright that makes sense but then he does things that often causes them to be killed and tortured anyway. So hew goes through a complicated plan rising his and everyone elses lives or he could just pull the trigger and get the same result?

Look I get the show is supposed to be fun and light but sometimes it goes into some very dark territory or he gets into some kind of impossible situation. Seriously that last ep was VERY A-Team. A thousand rounds fired and not so much as a wound. Michael goes out of his way to not kill a villain only to have that villain come backa nd threaten his and loved ones lives.....and then get away AGAIN when Sam had him dead in his sights. Sorry but im going to need just a tad bit more realisim.

I always thought that Micheal not killing and generally cutting a bloody swathe of destruction in his wake was a pragmatic choice he made. He was under supervision. And if he started dropping bodies left and right instead of running scams some higher-up might go "fuck it" and go all Vaughn on him. And that time he wouldn't have the cavalry to come to his rescue.

Yeah well thats the thing, sometimes thats true. But seriously what about Tim Matheson? Seriously a guy like Michael would have just killed him. The guy keeps returning and maybe the next time a returns he kills Fiona or Mike's mom. There was a scene where Mike and Fiona were palnning the stairs bomb and Fiona says "thats alot of bodies" and Mike replies "if there were any other way"/ Of course they pulled that punch but you see that the writers are letting the audience know Mike doesn't like killing even when he really should do it. And then of course all those bullets fired without any of Vaughn's guys getting shot. I mean certainly Fiona wouldn't mind shooting them. Also Mike refusing to kill the guys who burned him. You could argue that he didn't want to do that because he wanted back in but he was partly responsible for at least one guy getting offed.

It's just that the show keeps drawing these weird moral lines. Michael doesn't kill people.........except he is responsible for many deaths. There a bunch of guys shooting at him, does he shoot them? Nope he just fires in their general direction until he can think of something else. Hell that wouldn't even be murder, that would be self defense. And I wouldn't even mind it if they didn't make it so obvious like in last nights ep.

still the last 2 episodes were really great. Love the "He's kind of a dick" line and Sam's mistaken silence for trying to mind explode Brennan. That's some hilarious stuff.

As for drama, I kind of teared up at the bromance of Jesse and Michael splitting up at the hotel finale before Michael goes on his suicide mission.

But they are shooting at him and he can't ever seem to hit them. That same fucking Tim Matheson spy has showed up like three times now with murderous intent and Michael lets him walk. Again if they want to show character growth from hardened killer to softer "thinker" spy then you have to start him off in the first season that way and then gradually have him change due to the influence of Sam, Fiona and his mom. Clearly they are just uncomfortable with their main character killing people. Again thats fine but do a better job of hiding it. If I see another shoot out like that im just going to switch over to the old A-Team show and call it a day.

It's the USA network. I think they're already pushing the limits for what that channel will allow.

Yup thats about right. Im going to bed, good night and good luck.

That was the worst TV shootout for only four days, however. This past Monday's Leverage outdid it x10.

Leverage gets away with it though, because a) it operates on a slightly heightened reality where people like Parker exist and can function in society, and b) Eliot is fucking awesome.

Well I don't see Leverage much but from what I understand it's not a show about 2 trained killers, one of which is ALWAYS talking about shooting someone...right? From what I have seen of the show it involves them pulling an Ocean's Eleven style scam to get Leverage. So while they might find themsleves in life or death situations or the occasional gun fight I wouldn't give them shit for trying to avoid killing in such a light show.

Come on, this show is on SEASON 4. It's been exactly the way it is for 4 seasons now. If you didn't figure out that they don't directly kill anybody at this point you are an idiot.

Here's my guess for what they're going to do next season:

Michael will once more become a licensed spy, having been un-burned and rehired by his former agency. However, said agency will want his help tracking and apprehending the rest of the shadow organization that burned him. So they'll want him undercover, back in Miami and pretending like he's still on the outside looking in. Maybe he'll be used as bait. Maybe he'll somehow end up back in bed with the shadow organization (or close enough to spy on them effectively). Dylan Baker will be Michael's handler and will fly down every sixth episode to say hello.

This scenario allows the story to move forward without changing the DNA of the show, something which USA isn't ever likely to do. BURN NOTICE is always going to be set in Miami. It's always going to feature Michael helping strangers on a week-to-week basis. I'd love to see more wholesale change to the formula, but that just isn't going to happen.

Yes your right but then once in a while........look to see punches pulled to the extent we saw in the last ep made me feel like I was watching a kids show.


Sort of but basically he had the shot but because of his ties to him from the old days he couldn't shoot. Now he is back again threatening the lives of everyone he cares about, Sam has the shot and still nothing.

Do you also hate Batman and most superheroes for not instantly killing their villains when they have a chance?

I know you've bitched about the lack of blood letting on the show since the beginning so could you maybe complain about something else for a change? It's kinda fucking annoying.



That being said, yeah, that shoot-out sucked dicks. I thought the episodes were actually really good, but they do have the problem of damn near every show of it's ilk: you've got to keep cool bad guys alive for sweeps and season finales!

Well no because most Superheroes have that whole non killing code thing going in. And instantly killing......this is the guys third time showing up. Unlike Batman Michael has killed and threatens to kill again. Apprently he was the worlds scariest motherfucker. In the show they make clamims of this and that his Miami days have softened him up. If that was what they were going for great but AGAIN he had to start off as brutal bastard in the first season and bring him down to pussy gradually which they have failed to do which is kinda character development 101.

But you are right about the complaining. I took some time off it but......that gunfight! Alright im done.

Now, I could be wrong, maybe they elaborated more on and I've just glossed over, but I always thought Michael's rep was just that. Reputation. Like, he's super efficient and all and maybe fools ended up dying, but a combo of being a totally badass MacGuyver spy and some crazy bastard (Dylahunt) doing things IN his name combined to make him SEEM like a bloodthirsty murderfiend. As for Crazy Larry, I always got the impression that while Michael was up for doing some dirt, Larry was probably a) looking back on the glory days with rose-colored crazy glasses and b) probably too busy killing folk himself to really notice if Mike had decapitated his chosen target or whatevs.

But that could totally be in my head. AGAIN.

Please stop doing this to me........I want to stop..........but Tim Matheson(is his character's name really Larry?) is his mentor. He taught him everything he knows and they worked side by side trusting each other sompletely until Tim went all dark side. They have made references throughout the season that Michael has changed since moving to Miami.

All im saying is show the change rather than.....Bad Guy 1:hey ya know that guy? he used used to be all scary and now not so much, sure give ya a good talking to though that might end with someone else killing you which he WILL NOT feel badly about.

Bad Guy 2:Ok but like what if I shoot at him directly?

Bad Guy 1:Well he will shoot back in your general direction but don't worry you'll be alright.

Bad Guy 2:OK ok but like what if I return 3 or 4 times threatening to kill him and everyone he loves, im really fucked then right?

Bad Guy1:Well then he will threaten you like really hard but then he will let go again.

Bad Guy 2:Wait what about this girlfriend I keep hearing about? I hear she is a fucking bad ass killer.

Bad Guy 1:Uhh yeah she says that alot but so far I have only seen her kill like 1 person, honestly I think Michael has killed more people.

Bad Guy 2: Wow how in the hell does he stay alive?

Bad Guy 1:I don't know man but he managed to make it 4 seasons, crazy right?

Ok now I have to stop, please let me stop. We will pick this up next season when some guy chops his moms head off and he gives him a time out and a hug.

I'm trying to figure out when his opportunity to kill Vaughn in that last episode was though? I mean, he surely had some kind of plan right but they never got past the 'hide the memory stick' portion of it.

At that point they ended up holed up in a motel surrounded by a bunch of guys with machine guns. Once that happened, he really had no opportunity to kill anyone. At that point, it looked like the best chance to do some more damage to these guys was to get the list out there.

I think basically at this point in his career Michael either decided he no longer wants to kill OR as was mentioned before he never actually did and it was all due to subterfuge on his part or others acting in his name.

The conceit of the show that it's like the A-Team and no one hardly hits anyone with the guns was pretty well understood I thought. Heck, the show basically IS the A-Team with them getting locked into slightly fewer places with vehicles that they MONTAGE into saving them.

He was planning to kill Vaughn and all his men in a fiery explosion until Vaughn used Micheal's mom as a hostage.

One thing Micheal's pacifism does effectively is make the rare times when he is willing to use violence into a big deal. The moment a season or two ago when he put down the guy milliseconds after he threatened Fiona said more than 100 lines of sappy dialogue.

Good thing the bad guys don't watch the fucking TV show then huh?

Jesus Christ.

Yeah see I was never talking about Vaughn though. The truth is Vaughn is the kind of guy you waould actually want alive. The authorities catching him in the act and keeping him alive for questioning is probably one of the things that got Michael back into the spy biz. I was talking about Matheson. He wasn't important and letting him go garuntees he returns to try and kill them again. Now im sure that was so they could have a returning villain again but then make it so he has some clever escape intead of Michael just letting him go.

See for me it's not actually about who does or doesn't get offed it's what makes the most sense for Michael in any given situation. A guy comes back 4 times trying to kill you and your family and you can't igure out a way to get him locked up? Well then that guy has to die. Ten guys show up and shoot at you but instead you shoot in their general direction or divise some plan that puts you in MUCH more danger than just shooting back? Silly. I agree that realistically Michael should be keeping the body count low but sometimes for his safety and the others around him he can't. And when he doesn't kill in those situations the show comes of kind of silly an cartoonish which is really my overall beef. The finale was just the greatest example.

Actually I tihnk I might have just talked myself out of the show which I think is a good thing for this thread.

They did get him arrested with a corpse in his trunk.

While I agree that in TV terms that doesn't preclude his reappearing down the line, if you're focusing on realism, that would eliminate him for a decade or two at minimum.

Oh yeah im sure he will never be back.

 Not sure if this is the best place for it, but I just learned that the Burn Notice prequel movie comes out this Sunday the 17th.  Anyone gonna watch this?  I mean, it IS a movie focused on just Sam...

Anyone who doesn't watch this is totally not cool.

Well... that was... a really good time!

I like Burn Notice, but I'd trade it for The Sam Axe Show in a heartbeat.

Interesting, I found it to be fun, but ultimately boring.  It just felt a little too long.  And the tone was weird.  It was like they realized Campbell's background and camped it up a bit.  A strange decision, but funny.

 

Did Campbell lose weight?  He looked way more slender in the face to me.