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GLORY (1989)

post #1 of 13
6/12/10 at 4:20pm
Thread Starter 


Just wanted to see what the consensus is about this film. I think it's crackerjack, and it's an example of what I like to refer to as a "Massachusetts Pride" movie*. I have not seen it in about a year, but I was reading a review on the ONION AV CLUB today and it mentioned GLORY. Scott Tobias said this of the film

Quote:
(STANDER) goes down the unfortunate road of movies like Cry Freedom and Glory, which only see the black experience through white eyes.
I have to say, I really think that there are some people who just don't get it. They have such a knee jerk reaction to the concept of 'white guilt' they no longer know what that phrase even means. Any film about people of color that also features white characters in the lead is suddenly a "white guilt" film. There is no black perspective in GLORY? I must have imagined all the scenes with Freeman and Washington and Brauer where they discussed their views and perspectives.

Anyway, I don't think GLORY is about guilt. It's about pride. The pride of the soldiers who fought, and the pride of the union that put them into uniform.

Thoughts?


PS The part where they are marching to certain death and the former racist is stunned to silence only to then shout "Give 'em hell, 54th!" makes my heart sing. Such a great moment. Between 8th and 9th grade my dad took me during summer vacation to Gettysburg where they have a monument to Shaw and the 54th. It was cool!


*Another film that I refer to this way is BREAKDOWN
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post #2 of 13
6/12/10 at 5:34pm
Who is the first character we see, Kate? Whose eyes do we follow the story through? Who is the protagonist?

Answering these questions might answer your own.
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post #3 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:00pm
Thread Starter 
I did consider this, Mr Bandu. However, there are many scenes that feature only black actors, where Shaw is not present and the story is not being told through his eyes. The black characters exist as fully formed human beings, not just bit parts in Shaw's story. I don't see how you can do a movie about the Massachusetts 54th and not have to deal with the fact that a white person was the commander of the unit. I think LAST SAMURAI ( a movie I enjoy BTW), another Zwick flick, could be more readily be described as a white guilt film than GLORY

And I am also just curious what CHUD-munity(c) thinks about the quality of GLORY in general. I think it's quite stirring, regardless of it's politics
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post #4 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:05pm
Glory has no politics. And it is shown through the eyes of Shaw, because it is based on all the letters he wrote to his parents during the war. He was the Colonel of the 54th, so he is the prime mover for many of the events. Go after Zwick for The Last Samurai and Blood Diamond.

But Glory is hardly criminal in it's focus. And I love the film. I always have. Still one of the best final shots I've ever seen.
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post #5 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:06pm
It's not so much a white guilt movie so much as it is a "white person is changed by his experiences with a minority group," which is Zwick's bread-and-butter.

It's a pretty good movie to show in school, but other than that, it's incredibly effective in how manipulative it is. I mean, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I saw it.

But you're right, Denzel, Freeman, and Andre Braugher are incredible. Especially Braugher, who I think is better than Washington in a less-showier role.
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post #6 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
It's not so much a white guilt movie so much as it is a "white person is changed by his experiences with a minority group," which is Zwick's bread-and-butter.

It's a pretty good movie to show in school, but other than that, it's incredibly effective in how manipulative it is. I mean, I could be wrong, it's been a while since I saw it.

But you're right, Denzel, Freeman, and Andre Braugher are incredible. Especially Braugher, who I think is better than Washington in a less-showier role.
God, I must have seen this movie at least four times in school. They fucking love showing it because the battle scenes aren't that bloody, the morals are clear, and it has an obvious easy to teach lesson. Its manipulative as hell. Denzel was good, but Jesus, that whipping scene and tear were almost offensively melodramatic and used to make white people feel bad. It's the worst kind of Oscar bait and Denzel has done much better and more subtle performances.
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post #7 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:23pm
This is one of the only films I know which made James Horner abandon his usual musical cues and instead swipe stuff straight from Orff and Holst. I still think Charging Fort Wagner, for how hilariously pastichey it is, is kind of awesome.
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post #8 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:41pm
Thread Starter 
Mr Bandu,

How does Shaw change though? He volunteers to lead the unit because he believes in equality and the abolition of slavery. The film ends with him dying for those principals. He is not changed the way Tom Cruise was in TLS*.

*where he got over alcoholism, PTSD and guilt of the genocide of american indians all thanks to the healing power of noble japanese people
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post #9 of 13
6/12/10 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post
Glory has no politics. And it is shown through the eyes of Shaw, because it is based on all the letters he wrote to his parents during the war. He was the Colonel of the 54th, so he is the prime mover for many of the events. Go after Zwick for The Last Samurai and Blood Diamond.

But Glory is hardly criminal in it's focus. And I love the film. I always have. Still one of the best final shots I've ever seen.
Thank you. This should have been best picture in 1989 not Driving Miss Daisy. Love the film and think its a terrific piece of work.

Been wanting to get the bluray. Anyone have it hows it look?
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post #10 of 13
6/12/10 at 8:50pm
I'd say Washington's and Braugher's characters change just as much as Broderick's does. Freeman is pretty much noble from the get-go.

And this was really before we realized this sort of thing was Zwick's bread and butter, so I'm inclined to give him a pass here. Almost as if he realized people ate this stuff up and just kept going to that well. The final image of Broderick and Washington in the mass grave IS pretty heavy-handed though.

And I agree with Kate, "Give 'em hell, 54th!" gets me every time.
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post #11 of 13
6/12/10 at 9:10pm
Heavy handed but absolutely heart breaking and terrific. I'd say thats about as perfect an exclamation mark on equality as it gets.

The score by Horner is phenomenal too.
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post #12 of 13
6/12/10 at 11:31pm
The final shot is both heavy-handed and historically accurate. I don't mind the heavy-handedness because the film is earnest and the shore is earned. In 1864 it was intended to be disrespectful of Shaw, but his father pointed out that that burial, with his men, would be what the man wanted. What seems trite in 1989, but at the time was profound. I believe in white guilt like I do original sin. I only feel bad for shit I actually did. So it works for me on a color-free level.

Loved Horner's score on this one, thanks to the Harlem Boys Choir.
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post #13 of 13
6/13/10 at 1:03am
Love this movie. Just watched it with my daughters - their first time. It's incredibly accessible, despite being such a male-oriented movie. My favorite scene is the campfire session....especially after Trip (Washington) is done and he exhales "Shit" as he's walking away. Not an angry expletive, but a releasing of anxiety at being so open.

And yes, "Charging Fort Wagner" is Orff reworked, but, heaven help me, I like it better than the original. Plus the final shot of Rollins, Forbes and the others realizing they're about to be blown to bits is just amazing.

It's openly manipulative, but it works. I like it because it doesn't make all northerners noble abolitionists, and despite the Shaw-centric narrative, we get two very strong character arcs with Trip and Thomas.
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