President Obama to address the nation on the BP Oil Spill - Page 3

I hear you and I do agree with you on most of this stuff, but I don't think oil companies are necessarily bankrolling or convincing Limbaugh or Palin to make their usual bullshit comments. That's the hyper-partisan nature of our political society doing that. Palin could never back this president in anything, same goes with the current GOP. Any position against this president is the right one in their eyes, even the most blatantly terrible positions to make.

As for Barton, well... that's obvious. The whole current elected GOP (and many Democrats) are being bankrolled heavily by big oil.

Shit, try living here.


No, it really is a great place in so many ways. Which is what makes this sort of horseshit all the more painful.

Yeah I listened to Limbaugh today on my way to a meeting. Boiling out the rhetoric he's saying:

1. Obama is "shaking down" BP to create a "Slush Fund" which will be used to fund Democratic Congressional races in the Fall, AND fund ACORN (I am not making this up...he is!)

2. What Obama is doing is ignoring/violating the Rule of Law (this is exactly the same argument used by the likes of William F Buckley in the 60's to oppose Civil Rights legislation!)

3. Although Rush "has no brief for BO" he pointed out several times that the "slush fund" would actually be paid for by British Pensioners (anybody know who really owns a majority of BP shares? Try Institutional investors like Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs!)

Oh for sure, I was really using 'bought and sold' in more general terms rather than meaning specifically being bought by Big Oil - but that doesn't change the broken nature of the current system that's being highlighted by this republican response.

I mean seriously, when a politician can see basically throwing their lot in with the villains of this piece and defending BP in such a way, in light of the daily facts surfacing about their mishandling and outright exacerbating of the spill, as 'good politics' - and a chunk of their constituents nod along with it, then something is really really, really wrong with the US political system - and a proportion of the people following it apparently.

No one person could fix this, not Obama, not MacGuyver, not even the Super Best Friends. This shit has gone way way past 'beyond fucked up'. We need to come up with new adjectives for this. I don't have the words.

No the problem is people have bought into party.

Its as simple as my tribe is better than yours.

People who do not stand for principles but for party get bad government. Both parties are bought and sold by big banking corporate interests and have been for nearly a century.

The travesty is this is worldwide. Nobody watches the puppet masters just the puppets. Switzerland and the Cayman Islands rejoice.

It's naive to think that Limbaugh and Palin don't know where there bread is buttered, who has the resources and profit motives to buy an opinion, and the existence of think tanks and PR firms dedicated to promoting the interests of Big Oil and other huge monopolistic industries. It's just naive. As long as people ignore the utterly corrosive and corrupting influence of big money, and see things in terms of right and left political philosophies, we will never make any progress as a country. Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders are examples of politicians or talking heads who are not bought and sold by big business, on extreme sides of the political spectrum. You can have an honest conversation with either, you can debate the points of either through the lens of political philiosophy.

Sarah Palin and Limbaugh both are examples of people who are utterly and completely self-interested and lend their ability to speak to those with a financial interest in keeping public opinion swayed in a pro-big business way, no matter how sneaky or phony. Believing otherwise is just naive.

I think that view is overly cynical.

Seriously? I don't think it's cynical enough.

Agreed.

Goddamn it, I'm already getting crotchety and hateful.

So, you're ready for my newsletter then?

I dunno... I need some sort of hard evidence to show that they're in the tank and getting paid by big oil.

We know from evidence that they're hyper-partisan assholes.

Shyeah. PMing you my new address riiiiightnow

Pomp, you're obviously free to see politics in America the way you see it, but it will never make sense until you look at it through the prism of the long-term profit motive. There is zero financial gain to be had for taking a stance that may be sensible, logical and morally right but which challenges the corporate status quo. This is why righty Ron Paul and lefty Bernie Sanders are on the fringes--they actually believe in what they say even if it eliminates any chance for a super lucrative financial future for them. I just want you to remember this conversation when the day comes that it is finally obvious and inarguable to you.

Partisanship is a way to control people. It's "rah-rah-rah -- our side over their side" and it's the most cynical form of manipulation that makes me weep for humanity. What Limbaugh and Palin know and the misled masses that consider themselves on the same "side" don't know is that there are concrete long-term objectives behind each and every sophisticated, tailor-made talking point. Anyone who has ever studied or worked in marketing can see what they do a mile away, but it's very focused, highly strategic, stealthy and clearly incredibly effective.

Take from the NYT:

So corporations control policy. Gotcha.

Also, BP's shares ROSE 7% in Britain after the Obama speech.

Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders are on the fringes because they are bat shit. They represent the extremes of their ideologies. I've been posting on CHUD now for almost two years and every post I read from you usually has an anti-corporate bent. That's fine and I even agree with you on some of your posts. That being said, I really think you're reaching here. It might seem like your theory might be true because of the political associations Limbaugh and Palin have with the true bought-out-by-big-oil corporate whores like Barton, but I don't think you can connect the dots without some sort of evidence to show that.

As far as I'm concerned, Limbaugh and Palin are making asinine comments because they play to a market. The anti-Obama market. It's a hell of a lot easier to pin this to hyper-partisanship than BP wiggling its way into Fox News. Limbaugh and Palin, along with others, want to paint Obama as un-American and Obama's actions are un-American in their opinion. I don't think it's as deep in the corporate shit as you do. It's an opinion nonetheless, but I don't think it's founded in any real evidence. It comes off more as a conspiracy theory than anything.

Although I will admit otherwise if you show me Rush's bankroll and there's a big fat paycheck made out to him by Conoco Phillips or something.

So would that make his opinions more or less obnoxious?

He'll still be a shit head.

A corporate whore, but still a shit head.

Maybe because investors know Obama is all talk and no action?

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/18...l-flowing.html

And if Obama was "all action", investors would just cozy right up to the administration, right, Snaieke? Which way do you want it?

I thought there was a hold on offshore drilling?

Control? No. The article mentioned rhetoric, not policy.

Well, as I said, I'm not trying to convince you to see things the way I do, but if you've spent time in Washington, you would see that it's one big fundraiser. The only reason most big corporations aren't breaking the law today is because they have bought lawmakers to change the laws for them. One of the reasons people accept the lawlessness of big corporations is because big corporations run the media exactly how they need it to be run strategically.

As for Limbaugh, he earns his nearly $40 mil per year by essentially giving his show away for free. The reason he's the only thing on in most markets (in some markets on "competing" stations) is because of deals made in the '90s that consolidated some corporate power in radio, which allowed them to then buy the legislation they needed to gobble up even more networks (the Telecom Act), so they could be gobbled up by Clear Channel. Clear Channel is run by "conservatives" with business interests in other consolidated industries. Limbaugh is paid each year more than you or I will probably make in our lifetimes combined, and he's paid that sum because he provides a key strategic service to his owners and their interests, not because of what stations or advertisers pay for his show, not even close.

Palin is in a mutually beneficial position with lobbying firms who help her sound credible as her star rises while getting payback by writing her scripts for her to put her unique shine on. If her star falls, which isn't likely to happen anytime soon barring a sex scandal, she will have a more lucrative "consulting" or lobbying deal than you could ever conceive of. She strikes me as self-interested more than having any real ideology, so she goes where the money is.

As for Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, I think Ron Paul is level headed on a lot of things and bat&%$ crazy on other things. I think Bernie Sanders is completely smart and doesn't have a whiff of crazy on him, but please point out to me a single thing he has said or done that makes you think that of him.

Doesnt it strike anyone else as amazingly funny, if not tragic at the same time, that so many american citizens, among them senators and members of congress, would apparently prefer to have a british company create the biggest eco-disaster in recent history right at your shores, then basically fuck up the remedy to it, and get away with it because it serves some twisted ideology about the government not being allowed to mess with private corporations?
I mean, all the speeches and shit aside, BP is so far not doing anything when they are not pressured, have tried to downplay and cover up, and everyone goes "oh, yeah, but thats okay, they are just protecting their interests."

Are you guys at the point where such behaviour is actually the accepted norm... that a private corporation isnt liable to pay for the damage and repair it?

I find that to be quite amusing.