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Latecomer threads?

post #1 of 77
6/16/10 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
A post in the New Rules thread got me thinking:

People complain that post-release threads get too long and that they can't read through all of the posts. I don't particularly like this argument - it's rare that a post-release thread gets a ton of pages, and it isn't like it's hard to skim through the other posts. You're supposed to be having a discussion, not holding forth - if you don't want to read other people's thoughts and just state yours, get a blog. We'll even let you have it on CHUD.

But anyway, it got me thinking about the idea of Latecomer threads. They're new threads for movies that already have post-release threads, but they would only be created in specific circumstances.

1) They would only be created 3 weeks after release

and

2) They would only be created if the original post-release thread hits a certain number of pages.

Again, I'm not a huge fan of this idea, but I'm just looking for ways to get people talking about movies, and I'd like to knock down as many niggling excuses as possible.

For discussion: do you like this idea? If you do, how many pages should a post-release thread get to before a Latecomers thread is started?
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post #2 of 77
6/16/10 at 5:59pm
I think it's actually a great idea. A 3 page thread about a small film that needs attention should not be ignored. A 50 page thread about Iron Man from last year, however, I'm not going to read through to see if I can add anything original, I'm just not going to post.

ETA: Page count should be no more than 10. Let's be honest, most people don't want to wade through more than 500 posts to see if their thought is original or not, right?
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post #3 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:02pm
Despite my post count, I primarily come here to read other people's thoughts. What's wrong with reading the longer threads? The only really long ones are tentpole movies and such. And do those need MORE posts?

Also, a latecomer thread would almost certainly be, as a matter of fact, in violation of the "don't post the same thing everyone else posted" rule.

I admit I'll skim long threads and just stop to read what the smart people wrote. I can't be the only person who does that. It's easy.
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post #4 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:03pm
The only movies that really need this are blockbusters. And hugely popular ones.
For example, Argentina just got Kick Ass last week, and after i saw it, i tracked down the thread and was like 10 pages long. It was a bit daunting, but i did read them all.

I'm not sure if this is the solution, it would mean way too many lazy people creating new threads for movies they are catching up with.

But if it needs to happen, i'd say a month apart at least and over 5 pages long.

Quote:
I admit I'll skim long threads and just stop to read what the smart people wrote. I can't be the only person who does that. It's easy
Yes, i skim down and find people i know and like to read. The general noise gets canceled pretty easily.
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post #5 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:03pm
How about locking post release threads upon DVD release and then allowing discussion to take place in the DVD forum? That way forums stay on topic.

I was going to say lock the thread when the film stops playing but that would be a nightmare to keep up with internationally.

*EDIT* And I think it was posted somewhere else awhile back but POST RELEASE threads should become the sole domain of the site writers to start. People jump the gun on them sometimes and the thread is unwieldy before opening weekend is up.
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post #6 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

Also, a latecomer thread would almost certainly be, as a matter of fact, in violation of the "don't post the same thing everyone else posted" rule.
This is in direct response to someone complaining about that rule.
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post #7 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
How about locking post release threads upon DVD release and then allowing discussion to take place in the DVD forum? That way forums stay on topic.

I was going to say lock the thread when the film stops playing but that would be a nightmare to keep up with internationally.
Why would we want to lock the thread? There are good discussions in those threads, and a point made two years ago can still be discussed today.
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post #8 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Why would we want to lock the thread? There are good discussions in those threads, and a point made two years ago can still be discussed today.
Because of length. Waiting until the DVD release gives an adequate window I figure for the thread to naturally peter out. Then a new/latecomer thread is created in the DVD forum for the same film.

Just brainstorming.
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post #9 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:08pm
I don't think furthering splintering conversation about a movie is the right move. It'd likely turn into two groups of people having the same conversations in two different threads. I think if you feel you have something unique to add, say it. Just don't quote something and say "me too" without adding anything.
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post #10 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post
Because of length. Waiting until the DVD release gives an adequate window I figure for the thread to naturally peter out. Then a new/latecomer thread is created in the DVD forum for the same film.

Just brainstorming.
Yeah, but then you'd have to bring that point over to the newcomer thread and oh god this is already getting a little too complicated

EDITED: added quote
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post #11 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:10pm
I agree with Rippoll. It's not that much trouble to wade through a lengthy thread.
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post #12 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Yeah, but then you'd have to bring that point over to the newcomer thread and oh god this is already getting a little too complicated

EDITED: added quote
Link the POST RELEASE thread in the first post of the DVD thread and allow the conversation to carry on anew. Again, just spitballing here.

*EDIT* And for the record, I have no dog in this fight. I read long threads and add what hasn't been said if I feel I have a different point.
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post #13 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:18pm
I agree that the purpose is discussion but truthfully? Some threads do get too long. The Kick Ass one for example is 20 pages long and if I had to read the entire thing before adding a comment I probably just wouldn't comment. Still, I don't think a second thread is a solution particularly since not that many posts on average scream I haven't read the thread!
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post #14 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:19pm
Any sort of "Late to the Party" discussion is interesting because it comes from a different perspective. Someone who watches THE THING for the first time in years or even the first time ever is interesting because of their perspective. There are a zillion awesome threads in the Film In Release and Video forum due to this reason alone.

If someone saw KICK-ASS last week for the first time or even revisiting it after seeing it in April, by all means start a new thread on it. With that kind of mentality, we never would have had J. Swanson's illuminating thoughts on REMEMBER ME.

I just don't see how the big post-release threads are a slog to get through. If someone posts their own poorly-worded mini-review, you can probably hit PgDn on that post. If there's some pointless argument or pissing contest, hit the End key and go to the next page.
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post #15 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:24pm
I don't think latecomer threads are needed- as has been discussed recently, we should want this place to be better than everywhere else, and that means good non- repetitive posts- the rule about reading the article/ thread is a really good one, because I hate the 'I'm not wading through the whole thread' excuse. Honestly, I think there is some jealousy involved from people who won't be able to post as much because they don't have anything original to add. To which I say 'You'll just have to try harder'.
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post #16 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:25pm
It really isn't that hard to read a thread. Even some of the really long ones. So what if you raise a point that's already been raised? If you bring a different perspective to it I don't see the problem.
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post #17 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:30pm
I think once a film hits DVD it's fair game to start a new thread on it in the Films in Release on Video section, other than that stick with one thread.
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post #18 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:30pm
I think a more stringent enforcement of the rules (I don't know how much more stringent you can get) would cut down on the chatter for people who haven't seen the movie in the post-release thread. I'm also hoping that the push for more discussion, rather than just jumping in to post a review or go "what he said" will eliminate needless posts, and thus, page count.

I'm all for more discussion and whatever it takes to get there, but I also worry that creating two threads for movies with huge page counts will only serve to hide the threads about smaller movies.
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post #19 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post

For discussion: do you like this idea? If you do, how many pages should a post-release thread get to before a Latecomers thread is started?
Personally, I think the idea goes a little too far in the direction of hand-holding or whatever. I'd rather read the occasional, "well, apologies if someone brought this up already..." followed by, "they did..." than more threads dedicated to the subject.


If you WERE to do it, I'd think someone should at least be able to manage reading 10-15 pages before they needed a latecomer thread. At the very least.
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post #20 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:35pm
So we would have, say, a pre release thread in March, a post release thread in May, A latecomer thread in June, and then a DVD thread in September?
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post #21 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:39pm
Four threads for a single movie seems a little silly. I mean, it happens, but that's usually because the search feature is fucked/people don't know how to use google.
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post #22 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
The only movies that really need this are blockbusters. And hugely popular ones.
For example, Argentina just got Kick Ass last week, and after i saw it, i tracked down the thread and was like 10 pages long. It was a bit daunting, but i did read them all.
You got Kick-Ass? You lucky bastards.
I find the idea a really big plus for us foreign chewers, if you ask me...they implementation might not be smooth, but it woudl be a welcome fix for us wgo have to wait too long to get into the talk about films yet to be available to us.
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post #23 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry Leper View Post
So we would have, say, a pre release thread in March, a post release thread in May, A latecomer thread in June, and then a DVD thread in September?
It's almost like seeing updates from pregnant friends on Facebook.
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post #24 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:45pm
It seems in reality you only have 3 kinds of discussions:
  1. pre-release - slow build-up to release
  2. theatrical release - immediate flurry of posts upon release that slowly tapers off
  3. home release - posting kind of comes in stops and starts as people either watch for the first time or rewatch certain films.

I think the release threads are worth viewing but they definitely are a product of their time. Films can be read completely differently once there is a few months of breathing room from the marketing and all that. So I don't think it hurts to start with a bit of a clean slate for the DVD release (additionally the topic changes to things like features and commentaries and that kind of thing as well).

I don't have any real issue with the way it goes now though (unless I see people create new threads for old films that I know already have a 1-2 page discussion that could benefit from renewed interest).
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post #25 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:45pm
Oh my God, you mean we're expected to READ AN ENTIRE THREAD?

Click and scroll, click and scroll, click and scroll. No one has suffered as we have suffered.

Seriously though, I'm with whoever above said that if a thread's too long, I just figure I don't have anything that earth-shaking to add. If I really want to say something, it doesn't actually take that much time or heavy lifting to go see if anyone else has said it first.
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post #26 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:54pm
Reading is good for people. If they care enough about posting in the thread, they should read it. That's why people come here, after all. Not just to post their own thoughts.
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post #27 of 77
6/16/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
That's why people come here, after all. Not just to post their own thoughts.
Endless numbers of posts to the effect of "HEY GUYS IS THIS A MOVIE ABOUT GARFIELD I LIKE GARFIELD AND HE LIKES LASAGNA" in Garfield movie announcement threads would disagree heartily.
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post #28 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Endless numbers of posts to the effect of "HEY GUYS IS THIS A MOVIE ABOUT GARFIELD I LIKE GARFIELD AND HE LIKES LASAGNA" in Garfield movie announcement threads would disagree heartily.
Yeah, I know, but that's why I'd say encourage that they read it more then giving them another place to post that mundane shit.

*I should have said "That's why people should come here."
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post #29 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:21pm
Personally, I don't think it's necessary.
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post #30 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post
Reading is good for people. If they care enough about posting in the thread, they should read it. That's why people come here, after all. Not just to post their own thoughts.
I agree with this. I enjoy reading through lengthy threads and taking in the discussion. I usually only post when someone says something I really take issue with, to avoid just adding another "nothing new to add, loved this/hated this" type post. Count me as a fan of long post-release threads.
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post #31 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I don't think furthering splintering conversation about a movie is the right move. It'd likely turn into two groups of people having the same conversations in two different threads. I think if you feel you have something unique to add, say it. Just don't quote something and say "me too" without adding anything.
I agree. Er, me too.

It wasn't a complaint as such, and I was mostly referring to HUGE threads, say Dark Knight or Iron Man. I usually skim big threads anyway, but feel like a dolt for repeating things said previously.
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post #32 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:32pm
I don't see how encouraging people to ignore what others have said before and just throw their own opinion at the wall is fostering discussion. It's really the opposite; more words and more discussion are not the same thing.
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post #33 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:38pm
I think as long as the people in a tread are willing to forgive someone repeating a thought with a simple 'Phil already said that' it's not a problem. Those of us that don't make opening weekend should probably be given some leeway, but I don't think we need a new thread.

Edit: Meaning we should still check the thread, but if we miss something in the process we probably shouldn't be run out of town.
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post #34 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:44pm
on-topic - I think leaving the system as is is fine. I hate slogging through big threads sometimes, but I'd rather do that when i have some time to go through it rather then trying to find every thread on the subject.

side-topic - I just gotta say, this is really interesting to watch. I've seen the 'rise-fall' of many message boards, all due to the same reasons Devin is trying to get away from here, and yet never seen (until now) someone really fighting to get back to that golden age of yesteryear. Kudos
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post #35 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:45pm
Alternate approach, based on my TRUE LIFE EXPERIENCES:

I only just saw Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull last week. I browsed through the MASSIVE thread for that film, realized I was spending more time and energy on the film than I wanted to, and made a decision RIGHT FUCKING THERE that the boards would forever be denied my thoughts on Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

You might not think this approach will translate to every film, but odds are everyone will be fine.
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post #36 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:50pm
Look at the TDK thread. There are tons of post trying to win an argument over nuisances. Some people here try to win threads instead of discuss/approach films. They will make a double dip just for the sake of an argument.
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post #37 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Alternate approach, based on my TRUE LIFE EXPERIENCES:

I only just saw Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull last week. I browsed through the MASSIVE thread for that film, realized I was spending more time and energy on the film than I wanted to, and made a decision RIGHT FUCKING THERE that the boards would forever be denied my thoughts on Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

You might not think this approach will translate to every film, but odds are everyone will be fine.
Especially for a film like that, where the thread turns into: "It's terrible, I hate it, and if you don't hate it you're an idiot" kind of thread. For some of the bigger movies, I don't really care about posting at all. I might catch up and post, but if I don't see the movie right away, why bother? I couldn't be bothered to read twenty pages about the A-Team, for example.

Honestly, it's the smaller, more offbeat shit that I'm more excited about posting here. Mostly because that's the kind of stuff I can't talk about/learn about IRL because nobody is into it.

/derail phil i'm dying to know what you thought about crystal skull derail\
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post #38 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

Honestly, it's the smaller, more offbeat shit that I'm more excited about posting here. Mostly because that's the kind of stuff I can't talk about/learn about IRL because nobody is into it.
I think the Antichrist thread was a great example of this.
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post #39 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:57pm
The TDK thread was a shitshow of epic proportions that should probably be rocketed into an entirely different tier of threads. Or the atmosphere.
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post #40 of 77
6/16/10 at 7:57pm
I'd like to point out that some of the longest Post-Release threads get the way they are because of a very drawn-out, redundant debate mid-thread. I'm thinking in particular of the one for Inglourious Basterds, which went on for pages and pages arguing about whether Landa recognized Shoshana during the "Strudel" scene.

I did read that whole thread, but I can't help but feel that my time could have been better spent. I think our opinions are still relevant even if we haven't combed the thread to make sure we aren't saying anything redundant.

(EDIT: I see that Phil just pointed out the same thing while I was writing this).
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post #41 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:01pm
My two cents? I also think you shouldn't bother. It would add unnecessary thread baggage to an already crowded board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
So what if you raise a point that's already been raised? If you bring a different perspective to it I don't see the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Alternate approach, based on my TRUE LIFE EXPERIENCES....... You might not think this approach will translate to every film, but odds are everyone will be fine.
And this makes sense too. If the thread is really massive but you feel you have something you want to say, go ahead and say it. Prefacing with: I'm sorry if this was already brought up, but... is really not that hard. And it would naturally bring that point back and integrate you into the discussion. And if the only thing you can think to say about a movie is: I liked it or I hated it, then don't bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Endless numbers of posts to the effect of "HEY GUYS IS THIS A MOVIE ABOUT GARFIELD I LIKE GARFIELD AND HE LIKES LASAGNA" in Garfield movie announcement threads would disagree heartily.
Laugh of the day. Thanks Jake.
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post #42 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:04pm
There's plenty of threads per film already (usually because of the questionable search function and/or laziness). Less clutter I say. And if someone can't be bothered to read a longer thread, they're probably more concerned with being heard than discussing.
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post #43 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
Here's the thing about 'Sorry if this was already brought up' - that's code for 'I couldn't be fucked to read this thread.'
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post #44 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:10pm
How about for a really long thread, you make a rule to read the last 5 or 10 pages (or however many is appropriate) before posting in a thread. Anything prior to the rule is fair game to be said again or something.
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post #45 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:10pm
It is possible to bring up a subject already discussed but bring a different perspective to it. But I also sense that if that's what was happening, we wouldn't have this thread.

I think pre-, post-, and DVD threads are plenty. I've sought out and bumped older threads for films I'd just gotten around to, and I've read through them beforehand. It's not that difficult.
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post #46 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teitr Styrr View Post
How about for a really long thread, you make a rule to read the last 5 or 10 pages (or however many is appropriate) before posting in a thread. Anything prior to the rule is fair game to be said again or something.
I think that's probably a good compromise. I will always read a thread for at least that long, but if the thread descends into 15+ pages of arguing over the same minutiae, I'm going to skip over some of it and simply put my own viewpoint at the end.
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post #47 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Here's the thing about 'Sorry if this was already brought up' - that's code for 'I couldn't be fucked to read this thread.'
Yes. And it would come off as lazy in a 7 - 10 page thread. But if, by the time you get to see the movie, the thread has ballooned to 50 pages - it's a little more understandable. And that tends to happen with big movies.

I also think there's nothing wrong with just popping into a thread to post your general opinion on a particular movie. This was great because... I especially liked so-and-so... I don't really see the problem if Posters X and Y already had the same opinion. Worst thing that can happen is your post is not really acknowledged and the discussion just moves on, leaving you behind.
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post #48 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Here's the thing about 'Sorry if this was already brought up' - that's code for 'I couldn't be fucked to read this thread.'
Right, and increased catering to that laziness isn't going to increase the quality of discourse, as I see it anyway. If people feel compelled to register an opinion but aren't interested in reading what other people think, well, there is a comment section around to scratch that itch.
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post #49 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by devincf View Post
Here's the thing about 'Sorry if this was already brought up' - that's code for 'I couldn't be fucked to read this thread.'
Well, that and "I read the thread, really, I tried, but this is me covering myself in case I missed something. Please don't yell at me."

As more of a reader and less of a poster as of late, I find the current system works just fine. If the thread is massive, I'll read the first few pages and the last few pages, just to get a sense of how the conversation evolved. Also, I would hope we're all willing to forgive a small bit of (perhaps) accidental repetition. It's a different matter, though, if someone somehow misses a nuanced, five-page argument and makes a "But what about...?"-type post two days later. They deserve all the ire they get.
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post #50 of 77
6/16/10 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It is possible to bring up a subject already discussed but bring a different perspective to it. But I also sense that if that's what was happening, we wouldn't have this thread.

I think pre-, post-, and DVD threads are plenty. I've sought out and bumped older threads for films I'd just gotten around to, and I've read through them beforehand. It's not that difficult.
To be honest the search function is pretty fucked up but there's always

google "lasagna garfield site:chud.com/forum"
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