Did the finale ruin Lost for you? - Page 2

Oddly, I don't have a spiritual bone in my body, and I may have loved it for that reason. The actual conclusion of the faith vs. science debate is faith, but ONLY faith in other people. Where the people hewing to faith went wrong was holding faith to the Island, which is not, as Ben Linus and others thought, a god. Neither was Jacob or the man in black. They suffered for their faith and received no reward. As I suspected from early in season 5, Hurley is the linchpin of LOST's core philosophy. All we have is the people in our life.

For me, LOST is in no way ruined by the finale. I enjoyed the series more than most any other and I admire greatly what the creators were trying to do. I feel like LOST morphed from one type of show into something else once the "end date" was announced, but that isn't meant as a criticism. I never thought I would be able to stap caring about the answers and just enjoy the characters to the degree that I did, but that is exactly what happened.

Going back to MIB as Locke: this is one of the worst things the show did. Not because I was some big Locke fan - I never really liked him that much - but because it meant nothing. MIB being Locke for season 6 had no deeper resonance than "We would like to keep Terry O'Quinn on the show."

It's an example of the kind of lazy fan service that ruined the finale.

But how do they get rid of him? They needed MiB to take Locke's form for Season 5's long con to work. So what, once Jacob dies MiB should just appear as some random guy? Smokey? They kinda had to stick with Locke's form so the average viewer could figure out that this was the same guy.

The finale didn't ruin LOST for me at all. I quite enjoyed because the writers were able to fool everyone into thinking something completely different. Almost everyone was convinced that the Flashsidways was some alternate universe where 815 never crashed and that it or the 2007 Island happenings would cease to exist, merge, whatever. Few, to no one saw the afterlife/purgatory thing coming.


So where can I read Jesse's article re. the Finale??

I also would not have seen it coming if they had revealed that all of the characters were actually super-intelligent robots designed to simulate the effects of a hypothetical magic island on the human psyche. But, being unforeseeable doesn't make it good.

Nope - it didn't ruin Lost for me at all. Do I wish that they'd done some things differently? Absolutely. Am I aggravated by the willful refusal to answer some basic questions that should have been answered? Yes. But, that said, I found the finale emotionally moving, intellectually-stimulating, and, ultimately, rewarding.

...And I'm genuinely flattered by the kind words, everyone. Thank you very much. History Buff, you can read the article on the finale by clicking through to my author page (right below in my sig).

You're right, it doesn't make it good. But the point I was making was that it was a curveball the writers threw that almost no one saw coming. IMO, that actually does make it, if not good, at the very least, incredibly intriguing with an added sense of WOW thrown in.

Edit: Thanks Jesse!

I reaaallly disagree with this. In my opinion Terry O'Quinn's acting was the biggest highlight of the season. To call it "lazy fan service" is selling it well short. Fans knew at the end of season 4 Locke was going to die, so I think a lot of us were well prepared for the possibility that he wasn't going to return. The reveal that Locke was dead for most of the middle of season 5 was one of the shows best twists, and seeing the face of a fan favourite, and "man of faith" such as him trying to kill our heroes was fun to watch. If it really was just a case of "We would like to keep Terry O'Quinn on the show." than I'm perfectly fine with that because it gave us some great scenes this season.

But those scenes had nothing to do with LOCKE. That's the thing - if you're going to make your bad guy take on the face of one of your most popular characters, do it for a reason. No one was fooled by Flocke, Locke's personality didn't begin to creep into MiB and create tension, there was no real commentary on the story of Locke being furthered by having MiB in his skin.

There was an actor who played MiB. That should have been the guy playing MiB, unless they had come up with a strong, in-story or thematic reason to have MiB stay as Locke. And no, Ilana saying 'He can't change shape now' is not a strong in-story reason.

Purgatory was practically the first theory to get seriously punted around by fans. People* weren't surprised because it had never occurred to us, but because we'd dismissed it early on as too obvious and reductive for a show that we liked to think of as the "smart" network serial, or just because the details didn't seem to track; ie, why would the island be sunk in purgatory/why would Jack have a kid?
Hell, I'm still not sure how being "woken up" from the afterlife doesn't render the entire thing completely pointless. What purpose does this elaborate hide-n-seek game with the memories of their original lives serve? Why not just leave their memories intact and send them straight to the church when they die?

*talking about people who were at least semi-serious about following the show; maybe casual viewers were totally gobstruck but I don't personally know any who had hung with it through the last season.

It's not just that. The creators told us the island was not purgatory. And while that is technically true, they still snuck it back in, in the last season. It wasn't clever. I think it was them going back to their original story, but because of the overwelming belief that it was pugatory early on, they had to tweak it until the last season.

I just wish that they had stuck to their guns and used those big brains of theirs to write a different ending. My only regret is the last 15 mins. The sideways reveal did not ruin the series for me, that's just silly I think. But it did ruin the sideways universe for me, which is a big chunk of the last season.

"Ruin" is a difficult term to apply, though. Do I rue absolutely all the time and thought I put into the show over 6 years? No. Do I feel now like I was giving the show too much credit a lot of that time? Yes. Can I still recommend it to others? Practically speaking, no, because any time someone has asked me that, it has quickly become apparent that their main concern is "does all the weird shit eventually come together and make sense?" And the answer to that is not really. Which is unfortunate, since there is plenty of good times in those first five seasons. I can tell people that there is still plenty of great acting and gorgeous cinematography throughout the series, but those things just aren't what concerns people who are hesitant to invest in the show, from my experience.

Devin really nailed it. Locke needed to connect in some way with the Locke that we knew in order to justify that story. The final two seasons had Crystal Skull/prequels problems for me. They were overly complicated and confusing, they lacked tension and cohesiveness...

This Locke business is ridiculous. The reason why the MIB is Locke is because they are fundamentally similar people and that's why it resonates so much when MIB is contemptuous of Locke vs. Jack's faith in the man. That MIB takes Locke's body is perfect not only for this but to also punctuate the core binaries: faith vs. reason/determinism vs. free will. That Locke and Jack are often the major players in this debate ESPECIALLY in the first 2 seasons is why it makes a lot of sense even without the similarities in character (MIB and Locke) or because Terry O'Quinn rules.

People need to seriously re-examine their reasons for disliking both the show (in retrospect) and the finale. I mean shit, so it didn't change your life. Doesn't mean it didn't go anywhere. It's so very sophomoric to denigrate something for being mysterious, philosophical, and at times profound for not having the ANSWERS TO ALL LIFE'S QUESTIONS. See: The Matrix Trilogy.

You want to bitch about dropped mysteries, truncated subplots, and clunky episodes/characters/writing here and there... go nuts. But please can we stop and think about what we wanted from the show vs. what it gave us and realize that this disparity's consequences are not necessarily the fault of a television show?

That's revisionist history.

The funny thing is that the people most likely to ask that question seem to be the people least likely to get anything out of the answers that are given, or the questions themselves. If someone bailed on the show in season 1 or 2, they did so because the show wasn't "for them" - and that never changed.

No, the problem is that in the end, Lost did have the ANSWERS TO ALL LIFE'S QUESTIONS. Is there some grand design? What happens when we die? What are our lives really all about? There are the big things it is best to let people chew over after it's all said and done. On the thematic level, where ambiguity is much more of an asset, the show came down with a very, very heavy hand.

What they failed to answer was the arbitrary plot questions they themselves raised, and that's what needed for things to work on a story level. Why can't women give birth on the island? Who was shooting at our heroes in the canoe? What exactly would happen if the monster escaped the island? Why did some Ajira people come back in time and others didn't? Why did some ninja guy being alive restrain the monster in some vague way? What is the "magic box" that can bring one's heart's desire to the island? Why is it that Hurley specifically can speak to the dead, and Miles can only hear them? What does it mean to be "infected" by Smokey essence? These are not the giant questions of Life, the Universe, and Everything; they are very specific plot elements that don't have a great deal of relevance outside the internal logic of the story. That's the stuff that you kind of need to answer definitively for basic dramatic purposes.

Then there's the whole other category of stuff that was answered, but the answers didn't really make sense/were simply unsatisfying/based in blatant misdirection. Stuff like the whispers being ghosts when they were clearly tied to the Others for most of the series, or why Smokey has such overtly mechanical affectations when he is a purely magical entity, or why the island is sunk in Purgatory when no one even knows it exists. That kind of stuff is a bit irritating, but I'd be a lot more inclined to shrug it off if I thought they'd gotten the big stuff right.

All right, put that way it does seem that Lost takes a particular stance on certain "big questions". So I suppose people don't like the stance it takes? Too fucking bad, then. Just as easily as someone can say that about people being angry a show didn't change their lives, you can say it when they take a thing and become angry that it wasn't what they wanted it to be. And given that people seem to have created a terminology around the mystical events of the show's ending, most of which does not really reflect what is seen but spiritual biases hardwired into our vernacular, culture, and sometimes religious upbringing, goes to show that perhaps there are lingering questions after all.

As far as the plot stuff goes, I definitely understand the disappointment that certain linchpin mysteries (the infection, pregnancy on island, magic box, etc) are only painted with a vague and broad brush, are these REALLY the "big stuff"?

Seems to me the "big stuff" was the philosophical theme-crafting that ran the entire series, was always consistent, and actually extremely sophisticated for a television series. The answers and plot and whatever else are in service to a story that is ostensibly allegorical.

Even if don't care about that, what about the mission-statement "big focus" of the show? Fans of Lost used to defend the show from outsiders by saying that the mysteries played second fiddle to a story that is less about smoke monsters and polar bears than it is about a bunch of characters and how they affect each other in extremely unusual settings and situations covering a gamut from intimate drama to wild fantasy via time travel, magical "sources", etc.

So if the story is about the characters and this story is successful, how did Lost get the "big stuff" wrong?

It's not a surprise that someone who demands an answer to "the magic box" has problems with the show. Clearly they weren't paying attention to the show and really need to go back and re-watch certain episodes from Season 3 and 4.

I don't really know what this means. I think the end bit is about not liking the term "Purgatory"? I can't really figure out the rest of it, beyond some variation of "you wanted the show to be something different", which, well, yeah. If I didn't like something, of course I would've liked for it to be different.

That was exactly my point. The big stuff is where ambiguity is an asset, and where it was lacking. The "small stuff" is where we actually need clarity and answers. Not explaining the infection or infertility isn't exploring a timeless mystery of creation, it's just sloppy storytelling.

Maybe this is where some of our difference stems from. I think allegory is generally rather boring. I want the story to be true to itself and internally consistent. If it does that, then I can apply that truth to the outside world myself. In the last season or two, I felt like Lost's story got away from itself, and the end result felt more like a pile of ideas than a satisfying conclusion. Mileage obviously varies on that score.

I guess it wouldn't if I agreed with either of the "if"-s in that last formulation. Every story is in large part about the characters, but Lost was always an especially plot-driven show in my estimation. The character stuff was always uneven, and outside of Jack and maybe Ben, the last season didn't service them very well at all.

Swanson - Congratulations on pointing out that something I listed among the smaller issues was, in fact, a small issue. I consider myself duly BURNT.

But that was what is so frustrating. The show held back so many answers to little stuff that it seemed they were doing it purposefully. Like somehow if they gave us small answers we'd unravel the big stuff. But it turns out they didn't answer the small stuff because the writers were sloppy or they backed themselves into a corner and didn't know how to answer those questions.

This is my opinion of course, but the show would have been much more satisfying if it relied less on reveals and focused on the process of dealing with whatever the reveal was. So instead of spending half a season to set up something that everyone knew was going to happen anyway, get it out of the way and show us how the characters deal with it.

That's my major gripe. The show was so good at making it seem that something major was getting set up to be revealed, and then the reveal was a let down, and then season was over. It happened every season. And every season, I'd come back thinking things would change and it never did.

Answering little questions along the way would have gone a long way to let viewers know that there was a game plan and at the same time satisfy our need for closure on certain issues. But to introduce story lines as important - some of which covered an entire season - and then just let them drop to the wayside is infuriating to watch. That's the only way I can describe this show - its just frustrating.

And it doesn't come down to a character vs. mystery debate because the ending nullifies everything the Losties went through before hand. What is the point for all of them facing their struggles when they just get a do-over in the afterlife?

I will never give up the experience of watching this show, but honestly I checked out two seasons ago. Season 4 finale is the series finale in my eyes.

I will maintain that S5 was still a fun, ripping yarn at least until the flashes stop/O6 return to the island. The Ajira flight really marked the point where I have to actively try not to think about the story in order to keep it working on a basic level. And that turnaround is so frustrating because a big part of the appeal of Lost was that it was the pulpy adventure show that encouraged you to use your brain.