Diablo Cody Talks About Megan Fox and Feminist Film Making

Broadly speaking (no pun intended) I agree with most of what Cody says about Women in Hollywood.

The exception seems to be Television, where you had very strong, complete female characters in shows like BSG and The Wire.

As regards Shia vs Megan: I think it's as much a function of the actor's talents and persona. Shia comes off as a likable, talented guy: Megan does not.

Put it another way, if Helen Mirren were equally outspoken (and she often is) I don't think people would hate on her.

I agree, but to balance that out Shia was talking about Spielberg and Megan was talking about Michael Bay. Even if you want to go to a movie by movie comparison, Crystal Skull is bad while Transformers 2 is unwatchable.

Cody is correct. I think that trying to decouple gender when you trying to explain such a big difference in reactions makes no sense. I'm not privy to any watercooler discussions since I live half way around the world but in the internet it pretty much boiled down to this:
Shia criticizes Indy 4? "What an honest young man, just calling things like they are and taking responsibility!"
Fox criticizes Bay: "Shut up you dumb whore! Who gave you permission to speak?"
Both the arguments (if any were presented at all) and the language used were screaming gender bias.

I kinda feel like LaBeof and Fox criticizing their respective directors and their films is more than just a sex thing. Obviously a lot of it stems from the sex of the two actors and the gender bias is undeniable.

But there's something different about criticizing Spielberg and criticizing Bay. Flawed though he is, Spielberg is Spielberg and people ragging on him is not a general rule. As successful as he is, Bay is generally seen as a joke. A joke good at explosions and making things look slick. So Megan Fox isn't saying anything new by talking shit about Bay.

Just tossing that in there as someone who doesn't find Megan Fox appealling. But I thought she did just fine in Jennifer's Body.

Sadly, I got much more enjoyment out of watching TF2 than Crystal Skull. There's a bit of a Venn Diagram situation since LaBeof was in both. But LaBeof apologizes for Crystal Skull while Fox just badmouthed Bay (right?).

There were a great number of people who found what Shia did to be just as stupid and wrongheaded, including Ebert. Not sure of this perception that there was a majority parade held for Shia, while Megan had to clean the confetti afterward for punishment. Just saying.

Part of the point is that people just say that it was wrong of LaBeof to do what he did. Wrong and dumb, but people move along. Much harsher language is used to denounce Fox for doing something similar and instead of moving along, they stay on target and seem to take pleasure in it.

But just to balance myself again, LaBeof criticized only the work and himself. Fox suposedly threw out words like 'tyrant' and 'Hitler' and spoke in a condescending manner about Bay's lack of social skills as well as his vulnerability and fragility. And mental problems? Now whether any of that is true, the media just loves to make her come across worse.

Huh... weird:
http://www.pajiba.com/career_assessm...assessment.php

Um yeah I would also rather watch Transformers 2 than Crystal Skull again. But that's neither here nor there. Thing is, Megan is known for nothing else than sexy photoshoots and big robot movies. I haven't seen Jennifer's Body, maybe she's great.

The feeling I personally got was "ouchhh stop digging your own grave" rather than "SHUT UP WHORE". If Natalie Portman or Kirsten Dunst said UGH THIS FUCKING MOVIE about Clones or Spidey 3 people would have more of a Shia reaction, I think.

Disagree, disagree, disagree. Shia raised legitimate issues with the film he was discussing, seemed personally convicted to want to do better, and was as nice as possible about it. If half of what Megan supposedly said is true, than she should be blasted for it. She has a really, really bad habit of saying extremely stupid things, and it has nothing to do with her being a (very attractive, I admit) woman in Hollywood. If Daniel Radcliffe started shit-talking David Yates and compared him to a dictator who killed millions of people, there would be just as big (if not bigger) of an uproar as there was for what Megan did.

Just my two cents.

I agree with the above, Megan compared Bay to Hitler, Shia just said "we coulda done better and I apologize for my part in that'. There's a big difference, Cody has a tenuously valid point, but only just. Women, in general, do get a raw end of the deal in Hollywood... but I'm sorry to say, because I do like Megan... but she got it wrong.

...it's also equally sorry, because she picked on Bay... who doesn't seem like a 'water-off-a-ducks-back' kinda guy. He's an opinionated hot-head as well, who says bullshit just to hear it... wheras, Spielberg comes across as far more leveled and when push comes to shove, would probably err towards Shia's opinon on Crystal skull.

What it comes down to is intention... Shia's attention was to apologise and move on from Crystal Skull and make amends with the online world and, for better or worse, cull some of the undeserved hate from the forums. Which worked. Megan was just trash-talking for attention, Bay... whatever his short comings... is a professional director, he's her boss... you can disagree with him, you can say he got it respectfully wrong... but you can't call him Hitler and expect to keep your gig that put you in the very place you are today.

If anything, he's proven that Megan really was his creation from the start, and he doesn't need her as much as she needed him. So Cody got that bit right, just a shame she's defending a chick who, again, I think has potential... she just needs to check her ego a bit and tone down the 'tude... and focus on acting and becoming relevant again.

Huh? Am I reading this wrong? She deserves to be blasted if the things she said are true?

I really, really doubt it. Look at it another way. This exchange was actually the first time the internet came to the defense of Michael fucking Bay.

Cody's comments are interesting, but I personally find the very existence of Megan Fox's career makes her point better than the treatment she supposedly received for lambasting Bay (I say "supposedly" because I only really remember her being criticised for the MANNER in which she made her comments). Fox is highly paid actress for no other reason than the fact that she's pleasant to look at.

Just so we're all on the same page, this is the exact quote that started this mess:

There, Fox comes off like an idiot for not having the vocabulary to dodge Goodwin's Law, but it at least seems like an innocent ignorance. And thats without taking her long sad history of failing to keep her foot out of her mouth into consideration. She phrased her criticism of Bay, like most of the things she says, like a dumb teenager instead of a professional actress, and she does perfectly deserve to be taken for task for that, but so far, the only people willing to do so can't do it without calling her a whore.

For contrast, here's what Shia said about Indy 4 and Spielberg:
Huge difference. If anything, George Lucas is the elephant sitting in the middle of that quote. And yet, he still took responsibility. It's still kind of a minor dick move (and lest we forget, plenty of people still took Shia to task for that quote, too), but he at least handled it the way an adult would.

Cody's defense seems based mostly on Megan Fox as a person, who I'm willing to bet comes off completely sweet, well meaning, and normal in an intimate setting, but hopelessly insecure. A lot of her worst offending sound bites come across as her trying to hard to maintain the sexpot image that comes natural to Angelina Jolie, but seems very little-girl-in-moms-shoes-in-front-of-a-mirror for Fox. But, as Evi said, when your career has no other basis than your looks, and you seem to be okay with that, and there's little else to offset that image, being treated like this may be inexcusable, but not surprising either.

Cody herself should know this. She's still a stripper in the eyes of a lot of assholes. But that Oscar in her bedroom for something she wrote buys a lot of Shut The Fuck Up, and she's proven that was no fluke repeatedly, onscreen and off. Fox needs that balance to start bringing, well, anyone on her side.

"Women aren't allowed to be as complicated as men."

Shia's career is 100% movies. Megan's career is 95% photoshoots, 5% movies. Cody should know better that to compare the two, as far as movie making is concerned.

When Shia does interviews, you wonder if a sniper is going to take him out.

When Megan does interviews, she's like a female Dirk Diggler.

Thanks. I just pictured a goat-swallowingly-massive vagina.

It's been said in this thread several times. Allow me to stress the point.

This statement is true to an extent, but Cody completely removes both events of their context aside from the fact that Shia is a man and Megan is a woman. It's extremely easy to make whatever point you want by being dishonest through omission. Just look at right wingers and Obama.

Shia was being honest, he stated that he felt he dropped the ball, and that he felt the project in general wasn't holding up the standard of the franchise. Though it might have been rude to suggest Stevie dropped the ball, he did it in the classiest way he could with the most respect he could muster.

Megan suggests that the second Transformers was junk, and then goes on to personally ATTACK Mr. Bay, comparing him to Hitler and trying to personally embarrass him about his social tendencies. Her comments were nasty, thoughtless and MEAN. She deserves every single job she loses and every bit of criticism thrown her way. Not because she's a woman, but because she's an asshole.

TF2 is more watchable than Crystal Skull but both films are awful and charmless.

As for Cody she sounds like someone from 20 years ago.

Hollywood doesn't have many female writers and specifically many female directors and that's the whole nutshell right there.

Double standards and all that stuff is meaningless in comparison and like its been pointed out there is a huge difference between what Fox and Shia said irrespectively.

Cody comes off as kind of a dumb amateur here.

You're INSANE if you think Crystall Skull is harder to watch than TF2. Spielberg may be sleepwalking but pay attention to the direction of that movie. It's impressive, even if the content is lack luster.

This thread is headed exactly towards where most Cody threads go...nowehere good.
Bottom line is that both Shia and Fox made a dick move, but while Shia focused on a critical and profesional aspect, Fox made it personal and demeaning.
Cody raises some points, but the comparison is rendered moo because of the huge difference on what was said and how it was said.

"Cystal Skull" is passable and mediocre, but it nevers openly insults its audience's intelligence like TF2 does (okay, maybe thats not a good argument).
The worse thing you can say about Crystal Skull is that it has none of the charm of its brethen and Spielberg's work.
The worse you can say about TF2 is that its everything that is unholy on this earth, and its an attack on good taste, entertainment, logic and cohesive narrative.

Diablo Cody cuntwhore selling herself no girls in Hollywood quaquaqua Megan Fox dumb bitch blahblahblah

Ryoken's right. Homegirl's fine, she just needs a little tact. Diablo Cody needs to keep doing what she's doing. Haters gonna hate. The end.

Don't forget to drop the mic and walk off the stage.

Crystal Skull is most definitely a worse movie than TF2.

Don't have a cow, Cody!

Shia's Spielberg comments were a lot more thought out and well spoken compared to Megan's "He's a nazi" comments. That being said, the over the top JUST GO AWAY AND DO PORN YOU SKINNY BITCH DUMB WHORE hate for Megan Fox from males *and* females on the internet is really creepy.

Like most of the other characters in the Transformers movies, she's boring. I don't know why she gets singled out when it comes to those films. The only other Megan Fox movie I've seen is Jennifer's Body and I thought she was pretty funny in that.

And I'm pretty sure I'd fall asleep if I watched Crystal Skull or Transformers 2 again.

I was about to edit the post and get that fixed, but what the hell.

His riskiest move was bringing Ford into it, saying he was unhappy as well.

See, I don't read that remark as an attack. She doesn't directly compare him to Hitler-- she says he tries to be "Hitler" on set, but that his personality outside of work is gentler and more sympathetic. It's a compliment, albeit one that Bay's public image couldn't abide.

Speaking of actresses with a rep for "not playing the game", does this mean I have to reconsider Kristen Stewart and Katherine Heigl? Because they come across as ungrateful for their success a lot of the time.

Not really. It was a condescendingly backhanded one. More like, "Awwww, aren't you a cute little puppy for trying to be all human!"

I think we can all agree Diablo Cody sucks and that there are certainly a million more talented female filmmakers who deserve her fame and success.

I think we can't.

Oh, he's new here. How cute.

Or is he?! Methinks we've seen the debut of BusterG III!

I think she just outed Bay as an Aspie (i kid, i kid).
Also, nice try to take the thread were many other have gone before, Rowsdower

(giggle) Look at Michael Bay! Isn't he cute? He thinks he's one of the Models, Inc!

GET THAT CAT OUT OF THE WAY!!!

Sorry, I worded that shitty. What I meant was if the REPORTS of what she said are factual, than she deserves to get attacked for it. Not if the words she spoke were actually true. She said some really, really stupid things reportedly, and if she really did, she deserves the flak she was receiving.

How does it feel when Megan Fox says something that you can't parse? I mean, that quote of hers, when read correctly, is actually NICE about Bay. And it's 100% true.

Anyone who knows anything about Bay's sets knows that he goes out of his way to be a monster. And what's interesting is the other insight that Fox brings in, that he's actually a sweet, awkward guy when away from the set.

That's really fascinating. It's really complimentary to him. Anyone saying she deserves to be torn a new one for that is a moron.

Including Bay himself! Though I guess Bay just brushed it off as the words of an immature girl who didn't appreciate the fact that he made her a star.

Lot of stripper feminists out there. Taking those asshole men's dollar bills.

I thought Fox was good in Jennifer's Body. Her first scene as a demon is creepy. Do I think she is the second coming of Meryl Streep, no. However there could be more to her than a pretty face.

Even if Fox is the worst person who ever and will ever walk the earth; why would somebody care? Its not like your going to run into her at the local Best Buy. I don't get why some people need to vent so much venom at her. Did she turn you down for a date? I know the internet is used to keep people from being bored, but you don't have to be an asshole.

I'd also like to defend Cody dialogue in that movie. Aside from the moveon.org line, it was good Whedon like dialogue. I liked the movie because it was an R rated episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Adam Brody was the best character in that flick. I found his hipster devil worshiper every entertaining. He still deserved to be stabbed.

So, Bay's the Hulk? Awesome.

I'd be interested in hearing if you hate all women or just strong ones.

It's odd that if indeed Fox's comments were complimentary, Bay reacted to those comments as negatively as he did. If anything, what she said about Bay actually fits in with the portrait of Bay that was painted in the making-of documentary on the Transformers 2 blu-ray. Seemed like he had a sense of humor about the way people saw him.

At a first glance, Fox's quote comes as "He's a dictatorial controlling hardass on set, but oustide of it, he's all timid and socially stunted and that makes him so wuddlly cuddly"
So yeah, that might be a problem; she could had phrased that much better, specially considering the obvious ramifications of making public statements like that.

In terms of a compliment, it's probably the worst way she could've phrased it. Especially when it's generally seen as text.

Didn't she also say he had mental problems? Which I suppose works like a term of endearment for her since she thinks she's got mental problems too.

Ugh. I gotta stop talking about this.

Yeah, we better stop or else Cody is going to find us and nag us to death on gender equality in the entertainment industry (unless she needs to go shopping for Oscar polish)...I'll be in the clubhouse.
(Im kidding).

I've had less than complimentary things to say about Fox in the past and I sometimes believe accusations of misogyny at the geek community are unjustified, but some of the stuff being posted about her post-JONAH HEX (the gist: well, her 'acting' career's over, so now she can do porn or pose for PLAYBOY like she should have from the start) makes me want to become a fucking Ellen Jamesian.

Nice retort.

I was obviously joking. We all know that Diablo Cody is the most talented female filmmaker in the history of the medium.

Its weird how much is said about Megan Fox I mean shes like the James Van Der Beek of Cinema. She was a TV actress until Transformers no?

As for Jennifer's Body I thought Seyfried stole that film. Fox needs to learn the foundations of acting.

That being said there are worse female actresses out there so I don't get the hate nor the love at this point.

Poor first impression.

I had no opinion of Kristen Stewart until she made that idiotic comment about how the paparazzi taking her picture and asking if she's banging Footface is akin to being raped. That just made my blood boil. If you seriously think that a pap snapping your picture is comparable to a guy forcing his dick inside a woman against her will...I don't even know what to say to that. I know she apologized, but I really doubt that she would have if the rape crisis groups hadn't protested. Heigl comes across as one of those "Don't you know who I think I am?!" types. I just find her funny considering she's done little to warrant such behavior. She's not a bad actress, but she's not a very good one, either.

As for Megan Fox, meh. I'll stick with Winslet.