The Semi-Official Pixar Thread

I'm totally with those guys who think UP is a little overrated. I wasn't going to say anything, but since you created the thread for it ...

A bit overrated: UP, RATATOUILLE

A bit underrated: WALL-E, A BUG'S LIFE

Justifiably celebrated by all: TOY STORY 1, TOY STORY 2, FINDING NEMO, THE INCREDIBLES

Eh: CARS, MONSTER'S INC.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I don't think I've ever seen a thread about a new Pixar movie that doesn't become a bunch of people listing their favorites.

i think my favorite is still The Incredibles and it's going to take a a lot to top that. I just love everything from the character design to Giacchino's score. The whole thing just pops for me.

You provide me with the space to do what I want... and suddenly I don't want to do it anymore.

I'm scared...

Seriously, thanks for the thoughtfulness.

To continue with the thoughts about UP...
It seems more often than not that audiences have to suffer through movies that are so perfunctory that first acts have to be slogged through in order to get to the good stuff. UP was definitely not that. If anything, it bolsters the rest of the movie up. It's a silly thing to theorize, but if UP didn't have as strong a first act (or opening sequences) as it did, it would suffer more than the difference of its parts. The adventures could've played more like a Saturday morning cartoon (talking dogs flying in bi-planes) without all the emotion and sympathy the first act engendered. It's why I can understand why some feel the film to be overrated.

I feel the same way about Wall-E. It's a film I was fully amped about before release (like lots of people here) and gave muted admiration to after its release. I fully admired its ambitions, but the material involving the humans didn't feel earned (as you said). It felt tacked on.

So I'm gonna answer your question second! Thinking about the romance between Wall-E and EVE now, I can't say it felt truthful or honest. It felt like an old-fashioned movie romance, if that makes any sense. Certain moments played beautifully and strongly, but I can't say that I was ever fully invested in their L0VE.

Damnable LIES.

Antz kills A Bug's Life, and Monsters Inc is perfect thematic perfection. Explain yourself.

It works perfectly for me, but then again, I never bought Devin's argument. You can't really compare WALL-E to the socially stunted comic-book collector that Devin so famously did, because WALL-E didn't really choose to be that way. He's been the last "living" thing on planet Earth for god knows how long, and whatever he understands about love and relationships he had to learn from HELLO DOLLY! So him breaking emotion down to the simplest of things -- i.e. holding hands -- makes complete sense. It's all he knows.

And, as for EVE ... well, maybe she just likes her boyfriends simple. We don't really know much about her before she lands on Earth. WALL-E does do everything in his power to make sure she gets that damn plant and completes her programmed mission. I guess he wore her down with his heroics.

Wall-E's first act is a geek dream, and still amazing, but the rest of the film is simply very damn good. I guess I don't see any reason for the romance to be truthful. I've always been willing to go with Love Conquers All on that one. It does feel like an unfinished screenplay at times, however.

Ratatouille continues to grow on me every time I see it. It's slowly becoming my favorite. Finding Nemo continues to grow on me too, and keeps threatening to overtake Toy Story 2 and the Incredibles.

I mostly think its weird that people expect such direct human reactions in the romance between two robots. All Wall*E knows of it comes from musicals, and he plays it as such. The basics of a human relationship are there between Wall*E and Eve, but they're still robots. Possibly the first robots to really learn love. Sentience doesn't necessarily equal Annie Hall/Alvy Singer in terms of a strong connection to another sentient being.

It's beautiful only in that the artificial beings go from having a clearly defined, unyielding set of directives to choosing love. Thats inherently wonderful, but it's still unnatural for our subjects.

ANTZ? Who the fuck still talks about ANTZ?!

Thematically, MONSTERS INC. is fine. But the villain's a little weak and, set-piece-wise, the movie seems slight until that amazing journey through the doors. And then it just kind of ends.

For the record, I enjoy RATATOUILLE, but I think the quality of that movie is kind of all over the place (and is not helped by the repeated shifts in viewpoint), until that oh so magnificent speech from Anton Ego comes along and makes the whole thing worthwhile.

I found Devin's argument to lead to a fascinating discussion, but I never agreed with it. But that was the fun of it.

An aspect of Ratatouille that always kinda throws me off is how the film begins about Remy and then becomes a buddy-comedy in the middle, and then comes right back to a story just about Remy at the end. It's that shot where the shot composition makes it look like Remy has to choose between Linguini and his family (where he chooses to have a moment alone, which is beautiful). It was just an odd moment. As if the whole movie was confused whose story it was telling in its middle section.

EDIT: Dammit, zak!

Perhaps that was enough for most people since it simply reads as LOVE.

Another thing that kinda bugged me about Wall-E. The first act seems to suggest that Wall-E is the way he is after a looooong period of isolation; that his personality developed as a programming quirk given a lot of time to develop into a consciousness. And it's probably because I took too much to the movie's marketing, but I thought that made Wall-E having a personality to be something special.

Then we meet an entire cast of robots that already have a personality! Sure, most of them were malfunctioning... but still. And EVE seemed programmed to have a semblance of a personality from the get-go. Why?

Cause a movie about robots who act as emotionless as real-life robots would be boring as hell.

I think Finding Nemo's themes are incredibly heavy, and they get heavier every year I age, yet the comedy and colors keep things from sinking. It's a sharp balancing act, one I think Stanton kind of lost when he tried to push it further for Wall-E. Also, apparently the representation of Dory's short term memory loss is incredibly accurate. Not that that really matters.

Hmm... I never really took that structural shift as a part of any of the film's themes. What purpose does that defiance of conventions serve in its celebration of senses and visceral things? Is it like the mixture of fruit and cheese? If the entire film was the delicious combination of foods that Remy loves (which it is! I love the film), that temporary moment of focal awkwardness would be Emile choking down some unknown piece of garbage (strong words nobody should take seriously, by the way).

After Finding Nemo, Ratatouille was the next time I saw a Pixar film and marveled at its gorgeousness. I found The Incredibles to feel really flat in its look. That's one Pixar film I really wished had been in 2D.

Shaddap with your practical mumbo-jumbo!

Reading what Stanton has said about both of his films, I think Nemo benefits because Stanton truly had something he wantd to say in regards to being a parent. The big idea arose as he was playing with his son and found himself not enjoying the limited time he'd have with him because he was overly protective of him. It was a concept he cared about that developed into a story set in the ocean.

Wall-E wasn't even Stanton's story originally (not that this can't result in another amazing film, of course). It was Pete Docter's, I think. But it was one that Stanton followed because he just loved the idea. But in this case, the idea wasn't enough and a story had to be developed from it. A story that felt a little perfunctory after the first act. I think the difference in approach shows. Stanton had something to say with Finding Nemo. With Wall-E, he was doing something really cool and ambitious.

Incredibles does have some fucking great action in it, but you're totally right about the look overall nooj.

The action and animation in the film is amazing. It's why I can't wait to see what Brad Bird can do with a Mission Impossible movie. I think it was a trade-off the production had to make when finally making a film with human characters with multiple costume changes. Something had to be scaled back.


B-b-but what about what Jeff Winger said!? (just because...)

"We're the only species on Earth that observes Shark Week. Sharks don't even observe Shark Week, but we do... For the same reason I can pick up this pencil, tell you its name is Steve and go like this-" *breaks pencil and Abed lets out little gasp* "-and part of you dies, just a little bit on the inside. Because people can connect with anything. We can sympathize with a pencil, we can forgive a shark, and we can give Ben Affleck an Academy Award for screenwriting."

As opposed to other Pixar/animated films, the characters arent representatives of human emotion/traits. It's literally about monsters, the nature of fear on the young, and how that is fed, reinforced, or torn down by their experiences in the world.

I was just rewatching the DVD's making-of, and everyone at Pixar is like: 'Fuck you Brad, we can't make that many new human characters.', and Bird's like 'BRAD BIRD!!! BRAD BIRD!!!!!'

I want Bird to take over any number of live action properties, and Superman is at the top.

And Monsters Inc is about corporations being bullshit. You should want to do something because you love doing it. And you should like kids of other races. And laughter is more powerful than fear. Clearly. I think.

Wow... Monsters Inc. is a mess.

That's what I mean though. The story never took a back seat in Ratatouille. It just became a different kind of movie in the middle portion where it was just as much about Linguini as it was about Remy. And by the end, it just kinda dropped Linguini as a character.

Anyway, having read your posts for several years now, I understand where you're coming from. I tend to be more in the conventional/story-driven camp, but I have moments when I'm left stunned by moments of visceral sensuality. I'm all for it! 4 of my friends are visceral-sensual!!!

I don't want to sound like I'm being a jerk, and I'm sure it'll be taken that way, but I think that many of their films are more resonant with parents. I read many of the arguments of people I respect about many of their films, and I have to think, "They aren't parents, there's some things they just don't get." I know how exclusive and sanctimonious that sounds, but the emotional, chemical, intellectual, and plain physical challenges of being a parent can't just be glossed over. The themes of the TOY STORY films, FINDING NEMO, MONSTERS INC., THE INCREDIBLES... they have deep meaning for me and some of the trials and tribulations I have as a parent. That's why I can't completely buy Devin's God argument - although I definitely can see it - because much of the confusion and fear that Woody feels is similar to what I feel when dealing with the fact that my daughter is growing up and everything changes, sometimes on a daily basis.

Pixar films, more than any other... genre? Studio? I don't know... really speak to me on multiple levels, emotionally, artistically. And not to sound like a jerk, but some things really have to be lived through to understand. I can't understand what it really means to be an astronaut just because I saw THE RIGHT STUFF.

I understand what you're saying and don't think you sound like a jerk. But I'm gonna offer another way of looking at it. Great drama and art is all about giving the audience an opportunity to understand something they haven't or may never have gotten to experience. At least a taste of it anyway.

Couldn't your experiences as a parent affect the way you experience a film so much that the emotions it evoke in you cloud your judgement for the rest of the film? That you're just an easier mark? This is in no way to say that your experiences aren't valid to your appreciation for the film. We all have themes and ideas we're easy marks for.

Two different things. Sometimes we talk about how well a film is structured and constructed and take it apart into little parts to analyze how it worked. Or we can also just be taken in by a film and marvel at how it affects us.

As a screenplay, Monsters Inc is a bit of a mess. But in that film's case, that certainly didn't stop me from tearing up in its final shot.

I have never been more upset to see end credits start than at the end of The Incredibles. I could have watched another two hours of them fighting the Underminer. It seems like every new Pixar film jumps to the top for me in the rush of release, but The Incredibles always manages to make its way back to the top when I stop and think about it months later. But Up is REAL damn close. The Incredibles just hits a nerve in me like nobody's business.

Aren't the worst Pixar films the ones that tend to wear their influences on their sleeve/don't go too far beyond the accomplishments of their influences? I think Pixar's too smart to forget the their characters, even when they get away from them due to demands of the story (like Wall-E.) But Cars and A Bug's Life, while beautiful to look at, are not much more than a remake/homage of older films.

I think Monsters Inc will probably be a catalyst for younger kids' awakening to the problems of energy dependence. So for that it, it gets a slight pass to me. And for the parents, the work/family balance stuff I think resonates.

The answer to your question is no. LIFTED is pretty great though.

Do they have their first short films collection out on Blu-ray yet? I need to check on that.

Pixar Short Films Collection: Vol 1

Presto is amazing. Boundin' is my least favorite of their shorts. I DIDN'T GET IT!

Alan's got it IMO. As a Dad and someone in their 30s, there are parts (specific and general) of the Pixar movies he's mentioned that resonate with me on a level where more life experience has filtered my outlook. On a paternal level. On a life-balancing level. There's some regret there and reconciliation and hope for personal growth.

Not to be a jerk as well, but there's a reason why I didn't/couldn't get into Johnny Cash music until the past couple of years.

Viewing the Pixar films now from the otherside of my 20s and having another smaller human being to protect gives me a certain POV. And not just someone to care for, but care about...

MONSTER'S INC was my daughter's favorite movie when she was 2 (Boo's age?) and would watch it every other day. The ending choked me up every time.Tomorrow's Father's Day and I'm still trying to figure out how to schedule work I have to do during this day that I should be playing with my daughter.

EDIT: And yeah, perfectly willing to admit my emotions may be clouding me. But I'm also a sucker for muppety monsters too. I also happen to think the world constructed in that flick (it's not just a worm's eye view of our world or cartoony take like the other Pixar films) is wonderfully realized.

Oh god I love Pixar. Even before Toy Story I grew up watching Tin Toy and that genius short with the snowman. I just wish they didn't make the UK wait for like an extra two months for all their films.

The Incredibles might have one of the greatest first acts ever - it's so immediately funny and fun and flows so perfectly, it's actually kind of weird when bob's missions start and you realise the main story is only just getting going.

Finally seeing Up tomorrow. Good times.

Definitely do this. It handles the 'parenting' themes better than any of the other relevant films, and I think it's because it allows us to see both points-of-view equally-- the protective father and the adventurous son both have justifiable reasons for the choices they make, and neither is entirely right or entirely wrong. And oh my god Dory's epiphany wrecks me.

I feel very alone as a film geek.

I don't really care all that much about Pixar. I find most of their films tedious and coldly-calculated. They sometimes have gags that I laugh at, but for the most part, I find their films well-animated but boring slogs.

Their short films, however, are fucking brilliant. They are true masters at visual storytelling, which is why the first act of Wall-E and the first 10 minutes of Up are so great. Just pure joy. I think it's because they allow the flawless animation to take charge, instead of the pretty standard and boring dialogue.

I know my opinion is very unpopular, but I really have just never understood the hyperbole for Pixar's feature films.

Please don't kill me.

Heads up for those of you who haven't seen the documentary The Pixar Story, it's airing Sunday night on the Disney Channel. One of my favorite docs ever, it's a must see for anyone who likes any aspect of Pixar.

What did people think of Day & Night?

Or was it Night & Day? Damn you, Tom Cruise...

I mentioned it in the Toy Story 3 thread, but my eyes got exhausted trying to greedily soak up everything going on in the CG elements as well as the great 2D animation. I should've just sat back and gone with it (which I did, the 2nd time I saw it). The radio broadcast seemed a bit much, but was still an effective break from the visual storytelling that had preceded most of it.

Damn you, Frank Sinatra I think you mean.

I thought it was fantastic but the kids in my theater were chattering the entire time so my attention was not 100%.

Also, FYI, the Pixar Animation Short Films were on the Disney Channel last night and are scheduled for a replay.... this afternoon I think. Maybe tomorrow afternoon. I look forward to watching it without commercials for the damn Disney Channel.

Loved Day and Night. Might go back and try to catch it in 3D, because until someone mentioned, it never occurred to me how awesome it would look with depth added.

Picked up Toy Story 1 for my 2.5 year old son the other day. It's been played through about five times since ( For comparison, we've played through Wallace and Gromit : CotWR about 50 times this year. Still love it.). I never really appreciated it before, but I'm now excited to see TS2 and (for the second time) and TS3 in the cinema.

The Incredibles is my favourite. It's a great action film and the family dynamic works for me. The bit where the plane gets taken out by the missiles always gives me goosebumps. Ratatoille is my second favourite along lines similar to mcnooj described.

Up doesn't work for me. The first act is impressive (if a bit obvious in where's it's going). The rest of the film feels like a hodge podge of ideas, dog jokes and old people jokes. When the fatties turned up in Wall-E I really disliked it. It did regain some goodwill by the end.

Monster's Inc is something I still like. Maybe it's the cast or the fact I love monsters.... maybe it's just the awesome "Put That Thing Back Where it Came From or So Help Me" in the credits.

Haven't seen Cars.

I always flip-flop on which is my favorite, but its definitely between The Incredibles, Finding Nemo, and Up.

Wanted to take a quick moment to touch on the voice acting in Pixar, which is fantastic across the board. You always see the next big Dreamworks flick crammed with as many big stars as they can find. I love that Pixar finds voice actors that aren't just a name with a paycheck attached. Craig T. Nelson, Ed Asner, and Albert Brooks are the first to come to mind, and they're all phenomenal in roles that probably would have just gone to a Will Ferrel/ Steve Carrell type had they been Dreamworks movies.

Yeah, I never realized before how Craig T. Nelson just has a voice for a superhero like that.

You think Dreamworks calls an "emergency meeting" everytime Pixar wins an Oscar?
Spot on about the voice acting! Pixar goes for what best fits the character, Dreamworks goes for the star power.

Another reason I loved How to Train Your Dragon. Yeah, there were names in it, but the film didn't become about those names.

But I'm sure that it matters to the artist that create the work. Sure Dreamworks movies will make a lot of money but deep down that is not the end all be all.

I don't even think that Pixar and Dreamworks are competing on anything more than a superficial level. Dreamworks could never make Up or Ratatouille.

And I suppose vice versa. Pixar would never make, uh, Shrek?

I did think there was something disconcertingly DW-esque about that "Dream Weaver" needle-drop in Toy Story 3.