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The Taking Of Pelham 123 (2009)

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Just saw this again the other night and confirmed what I knew the first time... It's actually a good movie.

First things first... Big fan of the original. One of the great 70s thrillers for all the reasons that are always cited. I've even read the John Godey book. The movie is better than the book.

But I still think the remake was unfairly criticized.

I try to look at it as an individual work... If you assume the original doesn't exist, and just judge it on its own terms, I see almost nothing wrong with it. It's an interesting premise for a thriller, Denzel and Travolta are both very good. And there is a colorful supporting cast with strong memorable turns from Gandolfini, Turturro and Luis Guzman. As well as the two Albanian villains who the special features on the disc inform me are actual ex cons that Tony Scott went to for consulting purposes, and he liked them so much they ended up playing the roles themselves.

That sort of attention to detail and character help elevate this movie.

Let's have a little discussion, if anyone is interested, about why this movie is "bad." I'm prepared for plenty of "you have terrible taste" comments. I'm used to them, since I wrote a blog defending The Happening. But I'd prefer if we can actually talk about what, exactly, is wrong with this movie.

Watching it again, I came to the conclusion that it's actually one of Tony Scott's most enjoyable films. And the leanest, most unpretentious and uncluttered work he's put out in the past decade or so.
post #2 of 11
It's not that the movie is 'bad', it's just that it's not strong enough to exist on its own terms, and highlights what made the original work so well.

I agree that it's the best thing Tony Scott has put out in a while, and if the original didn't exist I'm sure a lot of people would look upon this version more positively. As it is there's this weird inclusion of too much bullshit into the film and a need to throw in set peices where they don't fit. Again it's not a bad film at all, but it is a frustrating one.
post #3 of 11
I disagree on Travolta. For me he kills the movie. It's a terrible performance that takes me off the picture. The rest of the film is OK. Gandolfini and Turturro are quite good.
post #4 of 11
I agree that PELHAM '09 been unfairly maligned, often by fans of the original who haven't even bothered to see this latest incarnation. I think its biggest weakness is that it's not enough of an update to or departure from the original material to justify it being not just a remake but a second remake, if you include the TV movie starring Vincent D'Onofrio and Edward James Olmos. PELHAM '09 is surprisingly faithful to the original, just fired through the crazy prism of a mostly-restrained Tony Scott. The performances -- even over-over-over-the-top Travolta -- all range from solid to strong.

I still prefer the humor and '70s edge of the original. Between the swagger of David Shire's impossibly cool score and that exceptional cast of crabby middle-aged Big Apple assholes, PELHAM '74 is just a blast through and through. But PELHAM '09 is an underrated and perfectly enjoyable time at the movies. Hell, if it had come out this summer, it might even be considered one of the better films of the year so far.
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
a need to throw in set peices where they don't fit. Again it's not a bad film at all, but it is a frustrating one.
Right... The police setback didn't need to be dramatized in quite so spectacular a fashion. It's like they felt the movie wasn't actiony enough, so let's have this scene mid film where it turns into The Blues Brothers for no logical reason whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
I still prefer the humor and '70s edge of the original. Between the swagger of David Shire's impossibly cool score and that exceptional cast of crabby middle-aged Big Apple assholes, PELHAM '74 is just a blast through and through. But PELHAM '09 is an underrated and perfectly enjoyable time at the movies. Hell, if it had come out this summer, it might even be considered one of the better films of the year so far.
New York was a different place in 1974. And its Pelham is a perfect capsule of that time. But, wouldn't you say the '09 Pelham is an accurate enough depiction of the current New York?

One of the criticisms leveled at the remake is that the characters on the train aren't as interesting. Because you don't have, say, Jerry Stiller this time around.

I'd argue that people today just aren't as interesting as they were in 1974.

These people do stand out well enough. I like how they give them little character beats, like that subplot with the mother, her kid and the armed forces dude. As well as the guy from Changeling and that episode of Fringe about the man who turns into a wookie on an airplane (can't be bothered to look up his name on IMDB), I like that scene where he wants to piss but suffers from shy bladder.

Interesting that someone brought up the made-for-TV remake from the 90s. The problem with that one was its level of fidelity to the original. It forced you to compare Edward James Olmos to Walter Matthau and Vincent D'Onofrio to Robert Shaw. (Guess who wins?)

Changing the characters this time around, and adding an unexpected layer of poignancy, makes all the difference.

That whole thing with Travolta: "You're my goddamn hero." I think that's a great touch.

I get where you're coming from Tati. But, given how shitty Travolta's movies had gotten, I thought this was a breath of fresh air that reminded me of where he was at post Pulp Fiction. The over-the-top nature of the character comes off as deliberate. He's a white collar guy who was changed by prison. And he adopts this "I don't give a fuck" persona. The swagger is calculated. It comes off as a guy who is going to great lengths to really come off a certain way.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
New York was a different place in 1974. And its Pelham is a perfect capsule of that time. But, wouldn't you say the '09 Pelham is an accurate enough depiction of the current New York?
Accurate? Sure. But is the current NYC remotely as interesting? I don't think it is. I don't blame the 2009 remake for that but it's just one more reason why I love the 1974 original.
post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
it's not a bad film at all, but it is a frustrating one.
This, although I tend to think theres more bad than good. I actually thought Deznel and Travolta had great chemistry and their back-and-forths in the first act are exciting and are the best parts of the movie. Its too bad Scott didn't trust the audience to pay attention. Enough talk, lets start blowing shit up! The ridiculous race to get the money across town felt like a set piece from a Transformers sequel (I mean that in the worst possible way - its loud, dumb, and incoherent), and the movie goes straight to shit from there.

I really dislike the Tony Scott of the last decade or so. Ill always love him for True Romance, but his new 'kinetic' style isn't for me. The camera always has to be zooming or spinning or swooping. Frankly, it makes me nauseous.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy dunlop View Post
I really dislike the Tony Scott of the last decade or so. Ill always love him for True Romance, but his new 'kinetic' style isn't for me. The camera always has to be zooming or spinning or swooping. Frankly, it makes me nauseous.
He keeps it to a minimum here, though. Couple of needlessly dramatic freeze-frames and ominous title cards. But that's about it.

This is an interesting side discussion too. When exactly did Tony Scott adopt this style of zooms and freeze frames and subtitles and all that? In the 80s and 90s he was all about gloss. Now he seems to be obsessed with epilepsy.

I'll forgive him for its use in Man On Fire because it has a funny effect in that one (unintentional, but still...) and I like Man On Fire. But, when did Scott start doing this? Enemy Of The State?
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
He keeps it to a minimum here, though. Couple of needlessly dramatic freeze-frames and ominous title cards. But that's about it.
I haven't seen this since its theatrical run, but i remember that obnoxious camera work all over the place. I specifically remember a couple of aides talking to Gandolfini on a street corner and the camera is swooping 360 degrees around him constantly. It's like Scott doesn't trust the actors to deliver their lines in a way that the audience will pay attention. Thats what frustrates me about him and his new style the most.

This is a pretty interesting discussion though - theres no denying Scott is a major talent. His trifecta of awesome (Last Boy Scout in '91, True Romance in '93, Crimson Tide in '95) pretty much solidified him as one of the great action directors of the 90s. Its been so many years since I saw Enemy of the State, so I cant really comment on that, but there were definitely flourishes of Scott's kenetic style in Man on Fire, which I found to be, for the most part, pretty enjoyable. But I think Domino was the point where Scott completely switched over to his current clusterfuck assault-on-your-eyeballs.
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post
He keeps it to a minimum here, though. Couple of needlessly dramatic freeze-frames and ominous title cards. But that's about it.

This is an interesting side discussion too. When exactly did Tony Scott adopt this style of zooms and freeze frames and subtitles and all that? In the 80s and 90s he was all about gloss. Now he seems to be obsessed with epilepsy.

I'll forgive him for its use in Man On Fire because it has a funny effect in that one (unintentional, but still...) and I like Man On Fire. But, when did Scott start doing this? Enemy Of The State?
He's always been "rock and roll" in his style, even as early as THE HUNGER, which pioneered several visual tropes that re-appeared in countless music videos to follow. But I believe his current frenetic pop stylings were first unleashed with his BMW short film, BEAT THE DEVIL...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQvXawnmjk
post #11 of 11
And the award for "Least threatening outburst by a villain" goes to John Travolta for "lick my bunghole."
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