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JMS and Jim Lee give Wonder Woman pants

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Michael Straczynski
In terms of character, I decided to circle in to try and figure out what needed to be addressed and what didn't. Diana is one of the DC Trinity, and should be selling as many copies a month as those other guys. But the book hovers in the low 70s/high 80s, and for the last year or two has been hemorrhaging 500-1000 readers per month. That means that those who are reading are dialing out, and nobody new is checking it out. What this suggests is that the stories are becoming too insular, they're not accessible, and there's nothing going on that will get somebody who hasn't picked up an issue to do so.
Quote:
So in the end, it became clear that half-measures weren't going to work. If we really wanted to do this right, we'd have to go all the way to the wall. If Wonder Woman hadn't appeared in 1941, if she appeared for the first time today, how would you design a Wonder Woman for the 21st century and beyond? What would she look like? How would she act? It took off from there.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=26929

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/bo....html?ref=arts
post #2 of 62
Yeah, pants and a jacket will turn the readers around...

American comics should take the lead from manga. Like small graphic novels.
Multiple editions, New number 1's, Image, and foil/hologram covers devastated comics in the early 90's*, but the jump to glossy paper and digital coloring murdered it. Good stories(for newcomers), cool art, that's all that matters.

The industry doesn't seem to care that it's doing "the suicide".

*Partly my fault, sorry guys.
post #3 of 62
For what little it's worth I don't hate the design. The jacket's a little '90s.
post #4 of 62
I'm guessing that the redesign is meant to help them court female readership?
post #5 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Powers View Post
For what little it's worth I don't hate the design. The jacket's a little '90s.
Yeah, the jacket is worse than the pants.
post #6 of 62
Yeah, I really like the new bracelets and the new top, but the jacket has to go.
post #7 of 62
UGH...LEE! Clearly, that Costume, Does no...WONDERs, for the leading...Woman superhero, at DC Comics!
post #8 of 62
It's inevitably only going to be around for a year or two, tops, anyway. Let us not forget that the status quo must always return to stagnation in superhero comics.

It does reek strongly of a "let's make a movie-friendly design" though. My main issue is that she looks more like Black Canary than Wonder Woman.
post #9 of 62
That's fucking ridiculous and it shows a complete misunderstanding of the character as she was conceived. Christ, that looks like shit.
post #10 of 62
It's even worse than the Emma Peel look from the 60's, and that's saying something. It's not going to replace the classic look on lunchboxes, memo pads, lamp shades, sheet sets, underoos, etc., any time soon.

Plus, it sounds as though they're basically throwing Moulton under the bus with the reboot, which could make it even drier and duller than the Picoult/Heinberg clusterfuck (from all of, what-- two years ago was that?). It's also about 180 degrees opposite what Morrison is supposedly working on with the character, though that may have joined the Authority on his "I've lost interest" pile.

I also think that, like a lot of people, JMS has it backwards: Wonder Woman is part of DC's "Big Three" NOT because she is somehow as compelling a character as Batman or Superman can be, but simply because she has been an important marketing icon, particularly for girls (just like "Cars" is Disney/Pixar's biggest ancillary moneymaker, even though it's not close to their best movie: it's easy to market to little boys who don't go in for all that Princess jazz). Wonder Woman can be done well or badly, but the only time she was anywhere close to Batman and Superman in popularity was in the Golden Age... which DC evidently wants to forget about, anyway.

Meanwhile, Hughes' All-Star Wonder Woman continues not to show up.

ETA: Someone called it "Casual Fridays Wonder Woman." FTW, if you ask me.
post #11 of 62
I'm not keen on it. They should try, I dunno, writing some interesting stories combined with a popular artist.

But yeah, when sales are slumping it's always a "go to" move to change the costume. The ol' one piece will be back one day.
post #12 of 62
Terrible, of course. But perhaps they're positioning it for a less revealing movie costume?
post #13 of 62
Of course they are. The original costume could never work on a modern film.

This one, could.
Even if i doubt they'll ever get it off the ground. As a supporting player on a Superman or Justice League film though, it could work.
post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
Of course they are. The original costume could never work on a modern film.
Not true. It totally depends on the tone.
post #15 of 62
This Wonder Woman reminds me of the Chun-Li from the Alpha series, with her long gym pants. I don't understand the need to change WW and cover her up from top to bottom, unless DC is trying to appease those feminists, who probably don't buy any comics anyway. I think this will last as long as the electric blue & red Superman.
post #16 of 62
I gotta say, not a fan of the redesigned costume. It feels like a totally stock Jim Lee design.
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tati View Post
Of course they are. The original costume could never work on a modern film.

This one, could.
Even if i doubt they'll ever get it off the ground. As a supporting player on a Superman or Justice League film though, it could work.
Why won't the original costume work on the big screen? It worked on TV just fine, with Lynda Carter wearing the classic costume for several seasons. I fail to see why something that can be shown on the tube in the 80's won't work now 30 years later, esp. to an audience who has seen even more outrageous stuff from superhero movies already.
post #18 of 62
It somehow gets uglier everytime I look at it. Jim Lee can't design for shit.
post #19 of 62
The costume is nowhere near as bad as the new origin story.
post #20 of 62
The stars 'n stripes on her skirt have always pissed me off. I can see Superman adopting America so readily, since he only knew his home planet from recordings and shit, but why would an Amazon princess go AMERICA FUCK YEAH?
post #21 of 62
Because she was a character created during wartime.
post #22 of 62
god I want a canon explanation fuck you
post #23 of 62
dp (double penetration)
post #24 of 62
The Amazons saw Old Glory on Steve Trevor's plane. They knew of or learned about the situation in man's world, and decided to take up one of their symbols (one that they felt carried the most weight) in the fight against tyranny, blah, blah, blah.
post #25 of 62
That's awful.

I've wanted to see Wonder Woman get a costume redesign for a while now, but that's vomit-inducing.
post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop Zeus View Post
I gotta say, not a fan of the redesigned costume. It feels like a totally stock Jim Lee design.
I don't believe this image itself was drawn by him, but it was based on his design...so this would be the last time he tried to reinvent Wonder Woman. Seems he just really wants to put some pants on Wonder Woman.



I don't particularly like the new design. The pants are okay, but I don't like that they're black. It's like she's wearing black, red, blue, white and gold. It does seem more like she walked into a clothing store and grabbed a few random items.
post #27 of 62
Almost any one of these is more interesting.

http://www.tencentticker.com/project...e-war-winners/
post #28 of 62
Agentsands77, Wonder Woman has as classic a costume as...Captain America. If there eventually is a film adaption of...Wonder Woman, I want to see her in something similar to her original costume. WW, should of course begin in World War II, and she should stay with Trevor even as he ages, because while he is mortal, their love is Timeless. In the series, the filmmakers actually created a fairly icky situation, as she first dated...Steve Trevor Sr During WWII, and then dated his son as the show shifted to the 70's. There was another attempt at adapting Wonder Woman, and that featured...Cathy Lee Crosby (the ex- Mrs Joe Theisman), and she wore something almost as bad as this new horrible costume. Thankfully, out of the failed pilot, The New Adventures Of Wonder Woman aired from 1975-1979. I still find the...EEEEEEEEEEEvil Nazis as Wonder Woman's greatest adversaries.
post #29 of 62
I dont like it...hell, during Rucka's run (which was great), they gave her a one time "battle" outfit for her showdown with Medusa that was great; never understood why they didnt redesigned that one a bit (keep the long battle leather skirt, add some more warrior like elements (gauntlets, bracelets) and made it the core costume.
post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
I dont like it...hell, during Rucka's run (which was great), they gave her a one time "battle" outfit for her showdown with Medusa that was great; never understood why they didnt redesigned that one a bit (keep the long battle leather skirt, add some more warrior like elements (gauntlets, bracelets) and made it the core costume.
Agreed.
post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
I dont like it...hell, during Rucka's run (which was great), they gave her a one time "battle" outfit for her showdown with Medusa that was great; never understood why they didnt redesigned that one a bit (keep the long battle leather skirt, add some more warrior like elements (gauntlets, bracelets) and made it the core costume.

Isn't that just a re-colored Xena Halloween Costume?

Makes sense in the whole mythic context and a fuck site better than a Poochie-esque Anime Bike Jacket.

Put that skirt on the Carly Monardo pic on the other page and you'd have something that at least looked battle-ready.

But yeah, the Classic Coke formula on all these characters is set. This is the first phase of Dying Sales Response. They'll do a Death of Wonder Woman next (unless they've done it already - the costume change shtick sometimes comes post-resurrection).
post #32 of 62
Honestly, in the realm of JMS-related comics news, the Wonder Woman costume redesign is less retarded than "Superman is sad so he goes for a walk."
post #33 of 62
They are missing the obvious boat with giving WW a greek warrior look with leather skirt etc. Make her the DC version of Thor. The gold kingdom come armour is badass as well.
post #34 of 62
I think, for the last five years or so, the coverage of Wonder Woman comics has been far more entertaining than the comics themselves. Remember Amazons Attacks anyone?

I do chuckle when I remember all the fangirl blogs jumping for joy when Gail Simone came on board, saying what a natural fit it was, only for Simone to struggle to do anything interesting (and when she gave WW an evil cousin and aunt, she kills them off the very next issue) and have to go back to that Birds of Prey comic to recharge the batteries.

I think they should just run with the whole bondage thing, get Diana to embrace her 'switch' roots. Would be more fun, and might actually sell.
post #35 of 62
Well, hope could be on the horizon, Grant Morrison says that since he's gone through Superman, and Batman, he's interested in taking on Wonder Woman next.

The treatment of the character has been so goddamn sensitive, such a "walking on eggshells" approach since her creator Marston's death, that almost everything interesting about her has been steamrolled out of existence.
post #36 of 62
Wake me when they bring back the bondage fetish.
post #37 of 62
Starslip Kris Straub gives gender equality on this a go:

post #38 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Augustine View Post
They are missing the obvious boat with giving WW a greek warrior look with leather skirt etc. Make her the DC version of Thor. The gold kingdom come armour is badass as well.
No doubt. Armor is what the people want. It's pretty obvious. I don't care about the particulars, but she should look like she's ready to kick some ass.
post #39 of 62
It reminds me too much of Superboy when he was first introduced. They were smart enough to change that, but dumb enough to try this? I don't think so.
post #40 of 62
It's like they keep thinking of ways to alienate loyal readers and make her as unappealing as possible. Shit writers, shit stories, and now this shit costume. It's awful.

Couldn't they have given her a design based on Diana Prince's Secret Agent bodysuit?

post #41 of 62
I'm no fan of this design, but I do like that they've taken steps to de-sexualizing the character. If this character is to ever work it would need readers and girls should be the natural target audience. Making her tits bigger and putting her in battle armor isn't making her a bigger hit with the girls.
post #42 of 62
I don't get that white suit. It's not stealthy, and must be a bitch to keep clean.

It does show off her assets well, I guess.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
I'm no fan of this design, but I do like that they've taken steps to de-sexualizing the character. If this character is to ever work it would need readers and girls should be the natural target audience. Making her tits bigger and putting her in battle armor isn't making her a bigger hit with the girls.
Wonder Woman was created for the core audience of superhero comics: Boys. Why do you need to de-sexualize Wonder Woman when part of the reason she was conceived was as an antidote to the grotesquely unfeminine world of the superhero comic? In fact, the problem the character has with maintaining an audience over the decades is almost directly related to her neutered sexuality. I don't know why people are so frightened of women's bodies.
post #44 of 62
The audience for comics and the media surrounding them has grown beyond horny boys, though Johnny.

And WW's problem over the years has nothing to do with her neutered sexuality and everything to do with the people working on her being uniformly unable to write an interesting female protagonist that's more than just a nice pair of tits with a bondage fetish.
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
The audience for comics and the media surrounding them has grown beyond horny boys, though Johnny.
I'm aware of that, but that expanded audience is still not reading Wonder Woman. I'm not saying WW should go back to being a subversive bondage fantasy or be about getting her tits out (and really, outside of the TV show, Wonder Woman has never really had a period were she was chiefly about the latter), but the character needs a shot of life, and the fact that DC has expressly avoided giving her that shot of life by disallowing her to be sexy, or funny, or anything but a pious bore, is irritating to me as a fan of the character and believer in her potential.
post #46 of 62
Fair enough. DC have dropped the ball with her, but I think "being afraid of the female body" is a very small part of that. They've never shied away from drawing her as a walking talking sex doll, they just can't find anyone who can write a three-dimensional female superhero.

And I think the costume is derivative pandering nonsense, for the record. She looks like Spider-Boy's wannabe girlfriend.
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
I'm aware of that, but that expanded audience is still not reading Wonder Woman. I'm not saying WW should go back to being a subversive bondage fantasy or be about getting her tits out (and really, outside of the TV show, Wonder Woman has never really had a period were she was chiefly about the latter), but the character needs a shot of life, and the fact that DC has expressly avoided giving her that shot of life by disallowing her to be sexy, or funny, or anything but a pious bore, is irritating to me as a fan of the character and believer in her potential.
I think DC is really taking WW for granted, because she is obviously the highest-profile female superhero and the most recognized, even to non-comic reading crowd. Marvel would've killed to have a female superhero like WW; their attempt to raise the profile of Ms. Marvel and Black Widow hasn't really gotten anywhere, and the best-known Marvel female superheroes mostly belong in a team (Jean Grey, Storm, Invisible Woman, even Ms. Marvel & BW), with She-Hulk as the exception. I just don't think neutering WW and covering her up is really tackling the root of her problem; she needs better story & villain, not less sexual appeal.
post #48 of 62
Wait, so according to the DC blog Diana was taken away from Paradise Island when she was three, and now it's "nearly twenty years later". Sigh. This is wonkier than One More/Brand New Day. Surely in the present day, regardless of changes in the timeline, Diana is in her mid-thirties?

You know what, I don't even care.
post #49 of 62
She looks like a hip young woman of the '90s. I believe that she has moxie.

Isn't Donna Troy the young Wonder Woman analogue?
post #50 of 62
That WW animated movie that came out awhile back was pretty damned entertaining whilst keeping her original origin and costume intact. Hell, if Xena can wear her outfit in live action then WW should have no problem with hers.
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