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Predator 2 (1990)

post #1 of 337
6/30/10 at 10:14pm
Thread Starter 
So I watched this masterpiece for the first time earlier today. Okay, I'm being a little facetious because this movie was mediocre at best. It had a pretty awesome cast including Glover, Busey, Blades, Baldwin and a scene chewing Paxton, but I thought they were underused (minus Paxton who was probably the opposite.

Glover was okay, but (I seriously want to punch myself for writing this) he seemed a little old for this shit. I could believe Schwarzenegger going head-to-head with the predator because he's almost an alien himself but I just couldn't see Murtaugh beating it (Riggs possibly could have but never Murtaugh).

My biggest problem is there was just too much predator. Maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me that the predator should be like Jaws. You should never see it but know when its there (the camouflage helps a little here). To show it so early and so often kind of robs it of its power. I did enjoy the finale because I'm human and like watching D-Glove fight a giant man in a suit as much as the next man, but I don't think it was quite as effective as they wanted it to be.

The one thing I noticed is that in the late 80s and early 90s Fox seemed to be paying close attention to the Nightmare on Elm Street series because they were getting the directors to helm their big sequels. Renny Harlin was originally supposed to direct Alien 3, but when that fell through he ended up directing Die Hard 2: Die Harder (also, let's not forget the Andrew Dice Clay 1990 comedy classic The Adventures of Ford Fairlane). Stephen Hopkins was also a Nightmare vet, but it's kind of weird because I thought Dream Child was seen as a failure compared to the previous four and it kind of sucks. I guess it kind of worked out with harlin because he had a few hits afterwords, but not so with this Hopkins guy (unless you're a huge Blown Away fan).
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post #2 of 337
6/30/10 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
Glover was okay, but (I seriously want to punch myself for writing this) he seemed a little old for this shit. I could believe Schwarzenegger going head-to-head with the predator because he's almost an alien himself but I just couldn't see Murtaugh beating it (Riggs possibly could have but never Murtaugh).
This was my belief the first time I saw the film, but subsequent viewings made me appreciate them going with Glover instead of finding a wannabe-Arnold to cast in the lead. He does a fine job.

As for showing too much of the Predator, it's true. But after the original the mystery of the creature was out of the bag so trying to keep that vibe in the sequel would have gotten tired fast.
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post #3 of 337
6/30/10 at 10:45pm
I just earlier finished playing as the Predator in Aliens Vs. Predator, so seeing too much of the Predator is not a bad thing. Like Molt said, there was no more mystery. Only what new cool weapons he'd have.

Plus you can't go wrong with the opening shootout. That's some awesome stuff.

I've always liked Glover in the role. Showed that he could carry an action movie, and gave him the chance to play the cop who isn't by the book.

Yeah, I think Predator 2 is all kinds of greatness.
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post #4 of 337
6/30/10 at 11:03pm
As I said a while back, I never really got the hate for it and will defend this sequel to the hilt. It did some fun and interesting things with the Predator, expanding his tech and arsenal and giving you a deeper peak into his behaviour and motivations without over-explaining everything.

Alan Silvestri returned and gave us what I'd argue is an even richer and more sophisticated score while still being firmly rooted in his original themes. It had some fun scenery chewing turns from the likes of Bill Paxton and Gary Busey and a nice grizzled vibe from Glover making him a nice change of protagonist from Arnie rather than going for a wannabe as Molt points out.

...and it had King Willy.

Nup, fucking great movie.

It often seems to me that whether you like 2 or not is predicated on what people liked the original for most - being either Arnie or the Predator itself. If Predator to you is first and foremost 'An Arnie Movie™', then of course a sequel without everyones favourite governating tit-grabber is going to be a letdown. I on the other hand love the film for it's titular monster above all else - in a shameless fanboy sorta way - so the sequel works for me like gangbusters.
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post #5 of 337
6/30/10 at 11:17pm
I think it was in The B-Action Thread where I said that Alan Silvestri is the 3rd lead after the main character and the Predator. That music is at the forefront that without it the movie would not be as great as it is.

Plus I'd argue that "Danny boy", "MOTHER OF GOD!" and "Want some candy?" are as quotable as "Over here." "Anytime" and Billy's laugh.

I've always liked this movie, and I dare to say it's one of the superior sequels that takes what the original did, and makes it so much better. More guns, more carnage, and putting Morton Downey Jr. into all of it.

Always loved the humor at the beginning with the taco stand guy.

"Everything I own they shot it to pieces. My microwave, my grill....YOU FUCKING PENDEJOS!!!!!" *Scorpios shoot at him and he ducks*
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post #6 of 337
6/30/10 at 11:46pm
The problem with Predator 2 is that it just feels cheap when compared to the first film (Which is ironic, considering the budget is nearly twice the size of the first film). I think the main problem is Steven Hopkins. As noted before, the director's previous movies had rather low production quality, like one of the latter Nightmare On Elm Street sequels, so he probably didn't know how to handle such a big-budget picture.

Most of the sets in the film, like the alley-way where King Willie meets his demise or even the pent-house of the Columbian drug lord, feel small and restricting, and the film carries this ugly, brown hue throughout nearly the entire film. I'd agree that the cast is decent, if a notch below the former film, but no one delivers a charismatic performance that is on par with Bill Duke or Jesse Ventura. If anything, from what I can assume by Danny Glover's bored, tired performance, this was merely a paycheck job for him.

Fleshing out the Jamaican-Columbian Drug War probably would have helped the film too. The war is apparently the main reason the Predator decided to arrive in the first place, yet most of the "worthy" combatants are dead within the first thirty minutes. After that, the film kind of just meanders until the climactic showdown with Glover.
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post #7 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:02am
I hate to get all Fleedesque on this one but here goes...

I just don't see the "small and constricting" complaint personally, the brown hue is there to evoke both the heatwave and LA's pollution, yes Bill Duke and Jesse The Body are utterly iconic, but I still really dig Busey, Paxton and even Maria Conchita Alonso and Ruben Blades make for likeable supports. I don't see Glover being tired or bored at all - he takes a shop-worn cliche of a character and really runs with it (watch the scene where Harrigan confronts Keyes after Dannys death and tell me his performance is tired).

Yeah many of the major players in the Drug war are dead early on in the piece, but the Predator was only drawn to LA initially because of that, once he arrives it's about taking down the lion Harrigan and the 'meandering' you talk about is actually the hunter taking out the lions pride in the form of Harrigans team.

I just don't see your criticisms at all.
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post #8 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post
The problem with Predator 2 is that it just feels cheap when compared to the first film (Which is ironic, considering the budget is nearly twice the size of the first film). I think the main problem is Steven Hopkins. As noted before, the director's previous movies had rather low production quality, like one of the latter Nightmare On Elm Street sequels, so he probably didn't know how to handle such a big-budget picture.

Most of the sets in the film, like the alley-way where King Willie meets his demise or even the pent-house of the Columbian drug lord, feel small and restricting, and the film carries this ugly, brown hue throughout nearly the entire film.
That penthouse had some pretty awful backdrops. I find it funny that the majority of that movie was actually shot in LA but mostly on soundstages.
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post #9 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:12am
Thread Starter 
I have to agree with Rain Dog about Glover's performance. I said in my original post that Glover might have seemed a little old but I think he was giving it a 100%. It was like he knew he wasn't getting many leading roles where Mel Gibson wasn't his co-star so he went all in for it. I couldn't help but enjoy the section of the film where it was just him going at it with the predator.

I was actually thinking during that section how fun a buddy cop film would be with him and the predator. Glover of course would be the Murtaugh type and Predator would be Riggs (you know, crazy).
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post #10 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:16am
I haven't seen Predator 2 in quite some time, but if memory serves me correctly, I've always thought it's sister film should be Robocop 2 because it shares so much of that film's spirit. Both are flawed but deeply admirable for being so risky and daring. You just don't see very many sequels like that today.
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post #11 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:21am
My fanboy wet dream casting for Harrigan? Fred Williamson.
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post #12 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpledforeskin View Post
I haven't seen Predator 2 in quite some time, but if memory serves me correctly, I've always thought it's sister film should be Robocop 2 because it shares so much of that film's spirit. Both are flawed but deeply admirable for being so risky and daring. You just don't see very many sequels like that today.
I'd 100% agree with this up until the two films respective endings. Predator 2 has an awesome and very satisfying conclusion, whereas Robocop 2 has hands down one of the most frustrating endings of any movie I've ever seen - it leaves us with a cliffhanger that is never delivered on.
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post #13 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:31am
I really wish I could have seen it in the theater to get wowed over not only seeing an ALIEN TROPHY, but seeing A BUNCH OF OTHER PREDATORS. That is indeed one great ending.

I was still wowed when I saw it on vhs, but still.
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post #14 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) View Post
I really wish I could have seen it in the theater to get wowed over not only seeing an ALIEN TROPHY, but seeing A BUNCH OF OTHER PREDATORS. That is indeed one great ending.

I was still wowed when I saw it on vhs, but still.
Seeing Harrigans face as he spies the trophy room, as the camera zooms in on it and Silvestri's music crescendos was simply one of the more beloved cinematic moments I had in my teen years.
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post #15 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:43am
ditto on the Predator 2 ending. It's certainly iconic but I am skeptical as to whether any future incarnation (Predators included) will ever be able to deliver on that beat. As for Robocop 2--I can't even recall the ending so I'm guessing that was it was a clunker.
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post #16 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:56am
The ending of Robocop 2 was Caine shooting the shit out of everyone. That was pretty awesome. Then the absolute last shot is Murphy using a ratchet to take his helmet off.

That is not as great as "Don't worry assho' you'll get another shot." and we see Harrigan walking away from the ash of the spacecraft's exit.
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post #17 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:02am
I'll probably have more astute things to say once I've watched it again, but I like Predator 2 because it feels so different, as a few people have said. Stylistically, it's not at all like Predator, but it doesn't feel like you're watching some weird other movie that isn't what you signed up to see.

One of the best moves is that the movie puts solid focus on Glover and his team as opposed to the Predator itself. The general logic in making sequels like this is to grab a bunch of kill fodder and maybe one interesting lead actor while basically making the creature the star, but instead we get great things like the late-breaking introduction of Gary Busey's character, which he chews on with the usual Good-God-Gary-Busey-is-insane relish.

A factoid worth mulling over: they tried to put Dutch in both the sequels and Arnold was unavailable both times (Busey's role here, and I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Fishburne's role in Predators was the Dutch character in Rodriguez's draft).

I agree that Robocop 2 makes for a good companion sequel. That movie is like a demented, R-rated cartoon. Some of it is so outlandish it's like a parody of the original Robocop. But that's a discussion for another thread.
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post #18 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) View Post
The ending of Robocop 2 was Caine shooting the shit out of everyone. That was pretty awesome. Then the absolute last shot is Murphy using a ratchet to take his helmet off.

That is not as great as "Don't worry assho' you'll get another shot." and we see Harrigan walking away from the ash of the spacecraft's exit.
But it also leaves us with a completely unresolved ending, our chief villain simply getting in a car and driving away and a flip little line from Murphy - and it's not like we ever see The Old Man get any kind of commupance in the third film. It's excruciating.
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post #19 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:17am
I should have elaborated. The Robocop 2 ending, Caine carnage aside, is the weaker of the 2 endings.

I would have loved to see Faxx get arrested and start yelling at the Old Man. That would have been a halfway decent ending, since she's the one who was mostly responsible.

Gary Busey owned as Peter Keyes, but I'd have loved to hear Arnold say "That's right lieutenant, other world life. A FUCKING ALIEN!"
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post #20 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:17am
I only saw it for the first time last year, and the third act is totally weak, but Predator 2 is one of the more underrated sequels out there. I like to think that it's really a Lethal Weapon movie, only Riggs is out of town and afterward Murtaugh is sworn to secrecy about the entire debacle.
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post #21 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterTarantino View Post
I only saw it for the first time last year, and the third act is totally weak, but Predator 2 is one of the more underrated sequels out there. I like to think that it's really a Lethal Weapon movie, only Riggs is out of town and afterward Murtaugh is sworn to secrecy about the entire debacle.
The third act is weak? I thought the exact opposite. The first two acts are weak but it has a pretty badass third.
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post #22 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene (Mr.Eko) View Post
Gary Busey owned as Peter Keyes, but I'd have loved to hear Arnold say "That's right lieutenant, other world life. A FUCKING ALIEN!"
Lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

It would suck to know that Dutch became a dick and to see him die, though. The idea of him being the one resistant survivor on the Predator game planet is a much cooler fate for Dutch.
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post #23 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:29am
Well, if Larry Fishburne can do it, I'm sure Arnie could.
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post #24 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
My biggest problem is there was just too much predator. Maybe I'm crazy but it seems to me that the predator should be like Jaws. You should never see it but know when its there (the camouflage helps a little here). To show it so early and so often kind of robs it of its power. I did enjoy the finale because I'm human and like watching D-Glove fight a giant man in a suit as much as the next man, but I don't think it was quite as effective as they wanted it to be.
Obviously this worked gangbusters for the first film but, like others have said, I dont think it would work out in Predator 2. The creature itself just isn't a surprise anymore. Plus, in the first film, we were all ok with John McTiernan giving us 40 minutes of an honest-to-God commando movie. Because its John McTiernan. I don't think any of us want 40 minutes of a Stephen Hopkins future-LA detective movie. Getting the predator in there as quickly as possible was a wise move.

This movie has its problems, but its fun as hell. Glover is surprisingly decent and Paxton and Busey are awesome. Plus, great gadgets and good kills. And I remember shitting bricks at that ending when I saw it as a kid.
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post #25 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:41am
Other reasons 2 is full of win:

The predator disk. The predator lance. The predator razor net. The predator dart. The predator wrist gun.
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post #26 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:41am
Predator 2 is one of those Guilty pleasures for me. It's rather mean spirited (like Robocop 2), but I can never dislike it. Part of that will be growing up watching R rated films when I was still a child (thank my older brother).


I'd also like to give a shout out to Robert Davi's small role as the Asshole Chief of Police.
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post #27 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Syn View Post
I'd also like to give a shout out to Robert Davi's small role as the Asshole Chief of Police.
"Insubordination, disregard for direct orders from a supervising officer! Now get back to your cage at Alvarado!"

SO good....
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post #28 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
The third act is weak? I thought the exact opposite. The first two acts are weak but it has a pretty badass third.
Once it gets in the Predator ship, it goes flat.
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post #29 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterTarantino View Post
Once it gets in the Predator ship, it goes flat.
Waaaaaaa???? You mean the last ten minutes of the movie that contains the trophy room, the final hand to hand duel with the Predator and the tribe of Predators showing up and Harrigan saying "Okay, who's next?"

Are you nuts???
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post #30 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterTarantino View Post
Once it gets in the Predator ship, it goes flat.
I don't think that even qualifies as an "act". It's like 8 minutes of the movie. 8 awesome minutes.
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post #31 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:20am
I'll always love Predator 2 for two reasons:
1. It's ahead of its time in that it looks like a comic book. It's very colorful and fun.
2. I was at a birthday party where my older cousins rented Dead/Alive and I was not allowed to watch. I was sent to another room to watch TV. Predator 2 happened to be on, so I felt like I was still breaking some rules.
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post #32 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:24am
I saw this in the theater as a youngster alone and was pumped leaving that screening. Kind of depressing we are getting a sequel to it in 2010.

Its a terrific sequel that throws the kitchen sink at you. How is the bluray its on my wishlist?
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post #33 of 337
7/1/10 at 9:56am
In my head, they'll always be an altenate ending to Predator 2 that goes something like...

Harrigan: Okay, who's next?

Elder Predator enters frame and takes Harrigan's head off with a laser blast.

Predator #1 (in Predatese): Uh...sir?

Elder Predator (in Predatese): Shut the fuck up, we're going home!

Predator #2: But, sir, the..the rules explicitly state...

Elder Predator: Fuck that shit! We've been dominating these cunts for hundreds of years! Hundreds! Far as I'm concerned, '87 was a fluke, and it's gonna stay that way. Now pack your shit, we're going home! And if anyone asks, your brother's death was an accident, he slipped off a roof.
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post #34 of 337
7/1/10 at 9:58am
What did that Predator Boss say to Glover after he threw him that weapon? (After "Take it")

It always sounds garbled no matter how many times I play it.
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post #35 of 337
7/1/10 at 10:06am
I love that an old, beat-to-shit hardnose cop could beat the alien that the teutonic superman couldn't. I like my action heroes more John McClane and less John Matrix, so to me Glover is the perfect act to follow Arnie's Dutch.
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post #36 of 337
7/1/10 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Daywalker View Post
How is the bluray its on my wishlist?
Haven't popped it in yet, but it has all the extras from the 2-disc set and I seem to recall pleased comments (if not ecstatic ones) about the A/V quality. I just got it for $15 at Best Buy, it's on sale this week. Too bad the new Predator Blu-Ray apparently blows (see the Blu-Ray thread for a link to caps).
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post #37 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:00pm
This movie is awful. There are so many bad parts about this film, my favorite being the Jamacian Voodo gangs. Um, Jamacian Vodoo? Since when did Haiti transfer that to them?
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post #38 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:04pm
It's called Obeahism.
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post #39 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:08pm
It's called FUKKEN VOODOO MAJEEK MON.
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post #40 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:08pm
they said Voodo in the film
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post #41 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
they said Voodo in the film
Yeah, because no one knows what the fuck Obeahism is, but it is essentially, a form of voodoo.
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post #42 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:11pm
Selaaaaaaaaaaaa!
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post #43 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:12pm
Not a fan at all, mainly for the fact that all of the characters are played too broadly. Nobody feels like they're playing a real character, especially Bill Paxton.

I always got a laugh out of the sound design in the meat locker sequence. Why in the hell do their lights make big whooshing sounds?
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post #44 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:13pm
Is Bill Paxton the only guy to have been killed by an alien, a Predator, and a Terminator?
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post #45 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Yeah, because no one knows what the fuck Obeahism is, but it is essentially, a form of voodoo.
well, whatever, still doesnt' make up for the Bathroom shenanigans.
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post #46 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Is Bill Paxton the only guy to have been killed by an alien, a Predator, and a Terminator?
Lance Henrikson
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post #47 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
Not a fan at all, mainly for the fact that all of the characters are played too broadly.
Oh, come now. Predator 2 is no masterwork, but its characters are hardly broader than those in the first. Billy the Indian, nose like a bloodhound, Blaine the shit-kicker, Poncho the Spanish-speaker, Mack the Sweaty Black Man, etc.

If anything, Predator 2 suffers because its characters aren't sketched loudly enough.
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post #48 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
well, whatever, still doesnt' make up for the Bathroom shenanigans.
Bathroom shenanigans? Are you talking about the Predator doing a field-dressing in the tenement building? I'm not picking on you, but that strikes me as a strange scene to hold against the film.
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post #49 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Oh, come now. Predator 2 is no masterwork, but its characters are hardly broader than those in the first. Billy the Indian, nose like a bloodhound, Blaine the shit-kicker, Poncho the Spanish-speaker, Mack the Sweaty Black Man, etc.

If anything, Predator 2 suffers because its characters aren't sketched loudly enough.
Predator 2 is a poor Aliens ripoff
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post #50 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Bathroom shenanigans? Are you talking about the Predator doing a field-dressing in the tenement building? I'm not picking on you, but that strikes me as a strange scene to hold against the film.
the old lady with the broom, come on? Oh and Danny Glover, who has vertigo in the beginning of the film, for some reason climbs down the side of buidling, when it would have been easier just to take the stairs.
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