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Predator 2 (1990) - Page 2

post #51 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Lance Henrikson
Is he killed by a Pred in AvP? I've tried to forget most of it.
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post #52 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Predator 2 is a poor Aliens ripoff
How? It's not even structured like Aliens.
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post #53 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Predator 2 is a poor Aliens ripoff
Uhhh...

The first one's an Alien rip-off, sure. But the second one's not exactly a siege movie.
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post #54 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
Uhhh...

The first one's an Alien rip-off, sure.
The first one's both an Alien AND Aliens rip-off... in the best possible way, of course.
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post #55 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
How? It's not even structured like Aliens.
well, I should have been more clear. the whole "freezer" scene, was an obvious rip-off of the nest scene in Aliens. The cameras, the vehicle base, etc...

also, many of the characters are pretty simular. Bill Paxton playing essentially the same role. The latino butch girl, who is tougher then her partners. The slime ball company man going after the creature, and knowing more then he leads onto in the beginning. There's alot there.
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post #56 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
the old lady with the broom, come on? Oh and Danny Glover, who has vertigo in the beginning of the film, for some reason climbs down the side of buidling, when it would have been easier just to take the stairs.
A comic relief old lady and a scene that's meant to be a (very thin) payoff to Glover's vertigo is what's wrong with that scene? Also, as I recall (because I've not seen the film in a while) Glover is trailing the Predator, who sticks to rooftops and shit, so wasting time by running down the stairs and losing sight of his quarry would be pretty counter-productive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
well, I should have been more clear. the whole "freezer" scene, was an obvious rip-off of the nest scene in Aliens. The cameras, the vehicle base, etc...

also, many of the characters are pretty simular. Bill Paxton playing essentially the same role. The latino butch girl, who is tougher then her partners. The slime ball company man going after the creature, and knowing more then he leads onto in the beginning. There's alot there.
Bill Paxton brings a certain Paxton-y energy to almost every role he played in those days, but his character in Predator 2 isn't really all that similar to Hudson, they both have a cowboy attitude and both go out fighting alien creatures, sure, but the pitch at which the respective performances are delivered is fairly different (also, Paxton's Predator 2 character never blubbers and panics like Hudson, nor is he egregiously macho).

Slimeball company man, sure, but again, handled differently. And aside from snagging Paxton's balls, Maria Conchita Alonso's character is hardly butch, and doesn't prove to be tougher than anyone.

It's fine if you dislike the movie, plenty of people feel the same way, but the Aliens comparison is severely off.
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post #57 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:34pm
If anything, I loved the sheer absurdity of a Predator in an old lady's bathroom while the old lady approaches with a broomstick.
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post #58 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Oh, come now. Predator 2 is no masterwork, but its characters are hardly broader than those in the first. Billy the Indian, nose like a bloodhound, Blaine the shit-kicker, Poncho the Spanish-speaker, Mack the Sweaty Black Man, etc.

If anything, Predator 2 suffers because its characters aren't sketched loudly enough.
I must respectfully disagree. The characters in 'Predator' feel like a cohesive combat unit with distinct personalities that show their internal relationships. You GET that Billy is a loner, you GET that Mac and Blaine are old buddies, and so forth. The interactions feel right, like these guys have known each other for years. In 'Predator 2', everyone's just loud and obnoxious for the sake of being quirky. It's grating and totally kills any sort of character empathy for me.
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post #59 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Is Bill Paxton the only guy to have been killed by an alien, a Predator, and a Terminator?
But is Paxton really killed by the Terminator? Seemed like Brian Thompson was the only one out of those punks that was a goner for sure.

I do know that Paxton is only actor to be killed by an alien, a Predator, and an Adam Baldwin.
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post #60 of 337
7/1/10 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I must respectfully disagree. The characters in 'Predator' feel like a cohesive combat unit with distinct personalities that show their internal relationships. You GET that Billy is a loner, you GET that Mac and Blaine are old buddies, and so forth. The interactions feel right, like these guys have known each other for years.
Spot on. Very few action movies are able to sell the comradery between the main characters like Predator does. Even Cameron's Aliens can quite capture it like McTiernan does in Predator.
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post #61 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I must respectfully disagree. The characters in 'Predator' feel like a cohesive combat unit with distinct personalities that show their internal relationships. You GET that Billy is a loner, you GET that Mac and Blaine are old buddies, and so forth. The interactions feel right, like these guys have known each other for years. In 'Predator 2', everyone's just loud and obnoxious for the sake of being quirky. It's grating and totally kills any sort of character empathy for me.
I'm fairly certain that Paxton's character is the only guy in Glover's coterie who is meant to be (initially) loud, obnoxious, and jokey, if anything he's the Lone Star State version of Hawkins.

Look, I certainly prefer the cast of the original, they look fantastic together, and they do manage to sell the plausibility of a multiracial ubermensch commando group through their chemistry, but I'm certain that McTiernan would be the first to admit that they're more Soldier of Fortune Magazine fantasies and not people you'd ever meet in real life (again, not a bad thing on its own).
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post #62 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:07pm
And hell, what's wrong with the loud cartoons of this movie? Just compare them to the bland cyphers of AvP:R.
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post #63 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

It's fine if you dislike the movie, plenty of people feel the same way, but the Aliens comparison is severely off.
no comment though about the freezer scene? Disagree all you want about the characters, but that scene is obviously inspired by Aliens.
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post #64 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
no comment though about the freezer scene? Disagree all you want about the characters, but that scene is obviously inspired by Aliens.
And? One scene makes it an Aliens rip-off? Filmmakers borrow liberally from one another all the time, this is nothing new, also Predator 2 rather famously suggests a connectivity between the two series in its climax, so its not like they're trying to sneak anything past the audience. Your point remains unproven.
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post #65 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
And? One scene makes it an Aliens rip-off? Filmmakers borrow liberally from one another all the time, this is nothing new, also Predator 2 rather famously suggests a connectivity between the two series in its climax, so its not liking they're trying to sneak anything past the audience. Your point remains unproven.
I think the Alien skull was nothing more then Stan Winston puting there to see if anyone would catch it.
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post #66 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
I'm fairly certain that Paxton's character is the only guy in Glover's coterie who is meant to be (initially) loud, obnoxious, and jokey, if anything he's the Lone Star State version of Hawkins.

Look, I certainly prefer the cast of the original, they look fantastic together, and they do manage to sell the plausibility of a multiracial ubermensch commando group through their chemistry, but I'm certain that McTiernan would be the first to admit that they're more Soldier of Fortune Magazine fantasies and not people you'd ever meet in real life (again, not a bad thing on its own).
I haven't seen 'Predator 2' in about 10 years. I bought it with 'Predator' on blu-ray (why not, it was only $30 for both of them in a nifty box) so I'll give it another legitimate shot to see if I agree with you on Paxton and the other characters.

What I DO remember about the characters:
- Everyone yelled. A LOT.
- The language was distractingly filthy to the point of being ridiculous.
- Stupid moments of exposition. Do we REALLY need Glover to let us know that it's Reuben Blade's necklace that he found? Don't we know that already?

What I remember about the action:
- The subway scene sucked. It was edited to the point of incoherence, and the strobe lighting effect was annoying.
- The meat locker scene sucked. As has been mentioned already, it was a poor man's ripoff of the scene from 'Aliens'. Again, I remember laughing at the whooshing sounds of the lights as they panned around.
- I LOVED the post-subway scene where the invisible predator ran over the roofs of the cars.

I also hated that the sleek look of the predator spaceship (briefly scene in the first film) had been replaced with a mist-filled Millenium Falcon ripoff.
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post #67 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:22pm
If it was 110 degrees out, wouldn't the thermal vision be all red?
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post #68 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I think the Alien skull was nothing more then Stan Winston puting there to see if anyone would catch it.
Oh, come on, man.
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post #69 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I haven't seen 'Predator 2' in about 10 years. I bought it with 'Predator' on blu-ray (why not, it was only $30 for both of them in a nifty box) so I'll give it another legitimate shot to see if I agree with you on Paxton and the other characters.

What I DO remember about the characters:
- Everyone yelled. A LOT.
- The language was distractingly filthy to the point of being ridiculous.
- Stupid moments of exposition. Do we REALLY need Glover to let us know that it's Reuben Blade's necklace that he found? Don't we know that already?

What I remember about the action:
- The subway scene sucked. It was edited to the point of incoherence, and the strobe lighting effect was annoying.
- The meat locker scene sucked. As has been mentioned already, it was a poor man's ripoff of the scene from 'Aliens'. Again, I remember laughing at the whooshing sounds of the lights as they panned around.
- I LOVED the post-subway scene where the invisible predator ran over the roofs of the cars.

I also hated that the sleek look of the predator spaceship (briefly scene in the first film) had been replaced with a mist-filled Millenium Falcon ripoff.
The tone of the film is loud and splashy, so I guess whether you like the film or not depends on whether you can embrace that aspect of it. Also, haven't you noticed that lights tend to make noise in movies? Just like cars tend to inexplicably explode when they hit a wall or whatever, it's just one of those movie things.
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post #70 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Oh, come on, man.
I really doubt that was anything more then that. If there intention was to make films bringing those two together soon after Predator 2, don't you think it would have been more then a glance moment in the film?

Just a nod to the 1987 comic IMO.
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post #71 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:29pm
The alien skull in the trophy case got a HUGE reaction in the movie theater.
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post #72 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
The alien skull in the trophy case got a HUGE reaction in the movie theater.


really? I don't remember one at all. I remember when it came out on VHS that it might have been there, then pausing the screen at the trophie case to see it.

It's a neat little easter egg, and the best part about the movie (and worst when you consider it may of lead to the AVP films ten years later).
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post #73 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
really? I don't remember one at all. I remember when it came out on VHS that it might have been there, then pausing the screen at the trophie case to see it.
We went and saw it on the second weekend of release (I think). By that time, word had gotten out about the alien skull, and everyone seemed to be watching for it in our particular theater. As I recall, you see it twice in the film...once when the Jamaican dude's skull is mounted, and again at the end when Glover sees the trophy case. Nobody really saw it the first time, but EVERYONE saw it at the end, and there was a definite FUCK YEAH COOL reaction from everyone around us.
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post #74 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:39pm
Of everything in that trophy case, moreso than Alien vs. Predator I want a Spiky Tyrannosaurus vs. Predator.
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post #75 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
We went and saw it on the second weekend of release (I think). By that time, word had gotten out about the alien skull, and everyone seemed to be watching for it in our particular theater. As I recall, you see it twice in the film...once when the Jamaican dude's skull is mounted, and again at the end when Glover sees the trophy case. Nobody really saw it the first time, but EVERYONE saw it at the end, and there was a definite FUCK YEAH COOL reaction from everyone around us.
I was never a huge fan of those two coming together, the idea always sounded stupid to me. I love the ALIEN, just a perfect creation when it comes to movie monsters. Predator always seemed B league to me as a creature.
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post #76 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
Spiky Tyrannosaurus vs. Predator.
I'd watch the hell out of that movie. Actually, I'd love a Predator movie that didn't feature ANY humans at all and was, for all intents and purposes, a silent film: have the actions define the characters and let the blood flow.
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post #77 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
I'd watch the hell out of that movie. Actually, I'd love a Predator movie that didn't feature ANY humans at all and was, for all intents and purposes, a silent film: have the actions define the characters and let the blood flow.
lol I'm sure Sandy Collora can help you with that!
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post #78 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:50pm
I want to see a female predator...
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post #79 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I was never a huge fan of those two coming together, the idea always sounded stupid to me. I love the ALIEN, just a perfect creation when it comes to movie monsters. Predator always seemed B league to me as a creature.
Again, I must respectfully disagree. I LOVE the alien, but there doesn't seem to be any real intelligence behind them beyond an ANT mentality. The predators are intelligent and cunning with their own internal code of ethics and honor. They are motivated beyond the simple need to reproduce and kill that the aliens have.

I'll try and find it, but one of my favorite review quotes for 'Predator' said something to the effect of 'the Predator makes the Queen alien look like a limp-wristed wimp'.
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post #80 of 337
7/1/10 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I want to see a female predator...
Do you? Do you really?

And Judas, wasn't it not in the first shot of the trophy case because of the way the shot was angled?

I think it's only visible at the end.
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post #81 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
And Judas, wasn't it not in the first shot of the trophy case because of the way the shot was angled?

I think it's only visible at the end.
You may be right. Again, I remember the reaction in the theater happened at the end. I'm sure that somebody here who has seen it more recently can verify whether or not it appears both times.
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post #82 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:06pm
Thread Starter 
Did all the voodoo shit remind anyone else of Marked For Death?
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post #83 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
i do now.
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post #84 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:11pm
On the "Alien skull" question -

It's been a few years, but you do briefly see the face of the skull in that first shot, but it's only obvious after the second shot in the climax.
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post #85 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:18pm
Yeah well if I was stuck in a room with an alien and predator, I'd be scared shitless of both.

I can only hope to drop my gun and appeal to the predator's honor so we can team up against the alien. So to me, the Predator is like Teddy Roosevelt. Get on his good side and you won't die.

Anyways, I really liked Predator 2. Obviously it's more expensive to shoot in a city than in some anonymous jungle, but I thought they did really well. OH and BUSEY!!! Of course they had to have someone crazy enough to hunt the Predator.
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post #86 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:23pm
I think I'm going to do something I promised myself I wouldnt. I'm going to rent AVP:R tonight. I never saw it. Looks incredibly bad. But I heard there's a space jockey sull in it. lol.
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post #87 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:24pm
Nerd alert-

The Aliens don't actually even have skulls, right?

Clearly this must be some other species of beasty....
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post #88 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
Did all the voodoo shit remind anyone else of Marked For Death?
A little. But mainly because they came out around the same time.

If only the Predator could have slaughtered some Jamaicans after they introduced crack to High School students.
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post #89 of 337
7/1/10 at 3:36pm
Also, I just want to say that spending a not insubstantial amount of time defending the merits of Predator 2 has got me feeling a bit funky, and may possibly negate my desire to post a review of 1983 S&S T&A flick, Deathstalker, which I've been wanting to do for a while. This makes me sad. =(
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post #90 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Nerd alert-

The Aliens don't actually even have skulls, right?

Clearly this must be some other species of beasty....
I don't think it's a skull necessarily as much as it's a carapace.

They're built like bugs it seems so their skeleton is on the outside of their body, but if you look closely at the original alien, you can see a human skull like face inside the front of the head. So I think it is an alien head. It looks like the bleached outside of an alien, which would make sense.
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post #91 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca S. View Post
i do now.
Jesus rule 34ing Christ, Luca.

I think anyone who demands their Predator movies to be colorless, srs business affairs will probably have a great time seeing THE LAST AIRBENDER this weekend.
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post #92 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I think I'm going to do something I promised myself I wouldnt. I'm going to rent AVP:R tonight. I never saw it. Looks incredibly bad. But I heard there's a space jockey sull in it. lol.
AVP:R is alright.

The only negative things about it are that everything looks dark as hell and the humans. The Spartan (Val Kilmer) of Predators is pretty damn badass and the Predalien is pretty cool as well. The aliens here have the ridges back, they fixed the Predator costume so it doesn't look like some bulky rubber suit like in AVP, and everything is mostly practical.

If they focused the movie on the Predator instead of the humans, I would've enjoyed it more. You also get a look at a Predator world. Might be the homeworld, but who knows. They also used the appropriate theme music right? I forget.
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post #93 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
A comic relief old lady and a scene that's meant to be a (very thin) payoff to Glover's vertigo is what's wrong with that scene? Also, as I recall (because I've not seen the film in a while) Glover is trailing the Predator, who sticks to rooftops and shit, so wasting time by running down the stairs and losing sight of his quarry would be pretty counter-productive.
Isn't the point of the scene that he's fighting through his vertigo to keep up the chase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
I was never a huge fan of those two coming together, the idea always sounded stupid to me. I love the ALIEN, just a perfect creation when it comes to movie monsters. Predator always seemed B league to me as a creature.
Are you secretly Sigourney Weaver?

As for AvP-R, I hated it in theaters, but I have such loyalty to both franchises that I got it on Blu-Ray. Haven't lowered myself enough to watch it yet. I had been pretty hyped, given the R-rating and big talk from the directors, but it was all for nothing.

The worst part in any Alien or Predator movie -- and the Alien series has contributed quite a few terrible moments -- is the "get to the chopper" callback in AvP-R. I sunk in my theater seat and wished I was anywhere else.
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post #94 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radb707 View Post
AVP:R is alright.
AVP:R makes AVP look like Alien.
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post #95 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
AVP:R makes AVP look like Alien.
I think the best we could have gotten out of the AvP series -- and it's not exactly a high watermark -- would have been a hard-R version of the first one.
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post #96 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:45pm
I don't, so much of each seems lazy or completely misses the point. Setting it in a pyramid in the arctic doesn't exactly make for the most dynamic movie of predators hunting aliens and humans. And AvP: R spent too much time on boring characters. I know they should be more than just simple nameless cannon fodder, but c'mon. I cared more about Ruben Blades in Predator 2 than the high school kid.

Hell, just set it in the future on some border world being protected by a garrison of marines. Predators let loose some aliens who use the colonists as hosts, and the movie is about the marines trying to save the rest of the colonists from the infestation while the predators go to town.

I don't need to see the adventures of teenage pizza delivery boy and mom that just came back from the war that wants to reconnect with her young daughter.
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post #97 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
Also, I just want to say that spending a not insubstantial amount of time defending the merits of Predator 2 has got me feeling a bit funky, and may possibly negate my desire to post a review of 1983 S&S T&A flick, Deathstalker, which I've been wanting to do for a while. This makes me sad. =(
I just recently watched Deathstalker and Deathstalker II. Genuine classics.
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post #98 of 337
7/1/10 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
I don't, so much of each seems lazy or completely misses the point. Setting it in a pyramid in the arctic doesn't exactly make for the most dynamic movie of predators hunting aliens and humans. And AvP: R spent too much time on boring characters. I know they should be more than just simple nameless cannon fodder, but c'mon. I cared more about Ruben Blades in Predator 2 than the high school kid.

Hell, just set it in the future on some border world being protected by a garrison of marines. Predators let loose some aliens who use the colonists as hosts, and the movie is about the marines trying to save the rest of the colonists from the infestation while the predators go to town.

I don't need to see the adventures of teenage pizza delivery boy and mom that just came back from the war that wants to reconnect with her young daughter.
Thing is, making a Friday the 13th movie with aliens and predators (which, let's face it, AvP:R pretty much was) COULD be fun, imho. Just the execution was completely bungled.
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post #99 of 337
7/1/10 at 5:01pm
Were any of the human, or non evil, characters in any of the Friday the 13th movies on the level of Dutch or even Harrigan though? Or Hicks?
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post #100 of 337
7/1/10 at 5:10pm
What Luca S. said. If anyone is curious about watching AvP:R, do it with the mentality that you're about to watch a slasher horror b-movie that has aliens and a predator in it. This will help you excuse the stupid human scenes. Watching with a beer in hand and chuckling at the ridiculousness of the pizza delivery boy plot (complete with bully asshole teenagers outta nowhere!) was the only way I made it through that movie. Rooting for the aliens and predator to kill all the humans for their terrible scenes and acting helps too.
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