CHUD.com Community › Forums › MUSIC › Music › Metallica
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Metallica

post #1 of 181
Thread Starter 
There are a few Metallica threads dedicated to specific Metallica projects but I think these guys deserve a "catch-all" so here it is.

I've gotten in a Metallica mood for the first time in what might very well be a decade. It started out with a viewing of the fascinating train wreck that is Some Kind of Monster and from there I checked out Death Magnetic for the first time. Now I'm in the middle of their entire discography (I own the CD's Lars, I promise) on random. Metallica were one of my favorite bands growing up and there is still a love there but that random is giving me a much more objective opinion of their music.

I have to admit, whenever a song comes on that I really enjoy it's generally from Load, Reload or Garage Inc. Sure, a true classic will come on (Fade to Black ATM) and I'll be thrilled to hear it but a majority of the songs pre-Black Album are enjoyed more out of nostalgia than for what they actually are.

The production on the early stuff is tinny and lacks beef. This really hurts it in the middle of a random. The speed and aggression are there but the production is wimpy and dated. That's not to say I don't enjoy it, I do. I think they're a little romanticized these days though.

And before it's implied, I haven't moved past "heavy" music or anything. I never took a break from Megadeth or Pantera. Bad Brains, SNFU and The Misfits have been on heavy rotation the last few weeks too. I love heavy music. Maybe it's heresy but I'd like the early Metallica stuff to get a nice remaster... or maybe they have and I didn't know.

Other opinions. Death Magnetic is good. Hammett kills on it and I'm glad they all recovered nicely from that piece of shit St. Anger. Between Some Kind of Monster and the album, I thought that was the end. They seemed so lost and pathetic.

Anyway, there it is. Curious what others think. Although, I'm probably going to get bored of the "Master of Puppets is by far the best album" comments, I'm prepared for it.
post #2 of 181
My thread on The Black Album 5 years ago.

LOVE that disc.

My opinions in that thread still haven't changed.
post #3 of 181
ReLoad was generally a pointless album. There are maybe 3 or 4 actually decent to good songs, that probably could have replaced some songs from the Load. Death Magnetic was a step in the right direction, though I gotta say that I would like it more if they didn't compress the shit out of it.
post #4 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Abed View Post
My thread on The Black Album 5 years ago.

LOVE that disc.

My opinions in that thread still haven't changed.
I feel like the Black Album has as much (maybe even more) in common with Load and Reload than it does with it's predecessors. It's a great album. I can't blame you for loving it. I get a little puzzled by the folks that love that album and hate Load and Reload. Liking them less? I can see that...
post #5 of 181
The Black Album was their first foray into just straight heavy metal, it's just as heavy as their other albums, it just lacks the speed of them. Their music then morphed into the more hard rock sound for the Load albums. And you know, I like Load for what it is, but like I said ReLoad was mostly pointless.
post #6 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
I feel like the Black Album has as much (maybe even more) in common with Load and Reload than it does with it's predecessors. It's a great album. I can't blame you for loving it. I get a little puzzled by the folks that love that album and hate Load and Reload. Liking them less? I can see that...
The Black Album is what got me into Metallica to begin with. I love their early material, but I haven't come close to listening to any of their albums more than The Black Album. The direction they would take listening to that album is pretty much etched in stone, ironically, but I just didn't expect Load to come packaged without a set of balls. There's no teeth to the tunes, and the concisely-delivered electricity and adrenaline that was running through The Black Album is sorely missing. I don't hate Load, but damned if it wasn't one of my most disappointing music experiences ever. I even tried talking myself into liking the album over the next year, then I realized I was living a sad, sad lie.
post #7 of 181
Reload has a handful of good and pretty interesting songs on it, but christ are most of the straightforward rock tracks boring. Just song after song that plod along for like 6 minutes and sound like they were written in about half an hour. Load was only a few duff tracks away from being as good as Black (so long as you're okay with it not actually being a 'metal' album), but Reload probably should've been an EP at best.

St. Anger is pretty shit but I'll stand up for a lot of the riffs, and even the raw production. If they'd stripped it down into a tight, short garage metal album with less hideous vocals it might actually have been quite enjoyable.
post #8 of 181
All the reverb on the drums on the Black Album kills it for me. It sounds so dull and plodding. And slowing down the songs means James actually has to sing, which is such a terrible choice because both his voice and their lyrics are super shitty. Also, every single solo on that album sounds the exact same, chock full of really lame wah-pedal.

Blech.

...And Justice For All is probably my favorite Metallica album.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
St. Anger is pretty shit but I'll stand up for a lot of the riffs, and even the raw production.
The drums on St. Anger sound excellent.
post #9 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
The drums on St. Anger sound excellent.
Thanks Patrick, you've just caused me my first stroke.
post #10 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
...And Justice For All is probably my favorite Metallica album.
That's really the one album of theirs that I would love if they did a new mix of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
St. Anger is pretty shit but I'll stand up for a lot of the riffs, and even the raw production. If they'd stripped it down into a tight, short garage metal album with less hideous vocals it might actually have been quite enjoyable.
Yeah, St. Anger has some good riffs, but they go absolutely nowhere. If you want to hear an album with a raw/unmastered sound that doesn't sound like shit, then check out Maiden's A Matter of Life and Death.
post #11 of 181
For the record I'm talking about the song, not the whole album, but I like 'em a lot.

Also I have an IQ of like, 89, so don't take much I say to heart.
post #12 of 181
The first two albums are the purest, rawest Metallica and are the only two I'll ever need. The Black Album is what posers pull out to play at their wine & cheese tasting parties to prove how "metal" they still are.
post #13 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
The Black Album is what posers pull out to play at their wine & cheese tasting parties to prove how "metal" they still are.
You mean posers are the ones that say boneheaded shit like this during their wine & cheese tasting parties.
post #14 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
The drums on St. Anger sound excellent.
This was Princess Kate levels of funny. Anyway...

St. Anger was aimless... they wanted to be heavy and relevant but they didn't know how. Instead of doing what they do, they were trying to do what they thought they should do. It was almost like they were so annoyed about the backlash on Load/Reload and the Napster stuff they were hellbent on venting it and answering their critics but alas... anger and aggression wasn't really in them anymore. Like Rocky in part 3; they got civilized. Even the title is desperate sounding.

Back to the Load/Reload... they're great rock albums. Too many songs though. You shave off 5-6 songs per album and I stack their "greatness" up to any of their other albums. They may not be what you want out of a Metallica album but they have some great music on them.
post #15 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Abed View Post
You mean posers are the ones that say boneheaded shit like this during their wine & cheese tasting parties.
I couldn't make out what you just said. You got a little Lars stuck in your throat there.
post #16 of 181
That one clanging drum gets pretty painful, what with it being there through the whole infinitely long album and everything. But every now and then they'll hit on a fantastic riff and that chaotic drum sound and the filthy guitar tones gel into something that's not so far from being great. And on some level I have to respect that they put an album that, even with it's nu metal-era concessions, wasn't really commercial or accessible at all. But it still sucks.

By the way is Garage Inc. worth a listen? That's the only one of the main albums I haven't heard.
post #17 of 181
Thread Starter 
Headless Fett, I hope you're under 20 years old. A grown man calling people posers and questioning how metal they are is just... it's just sad.
post #18 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
By the way is Garage Inc. worth a listen? That's the only one of the main albums I haven't heard.
Absolutely. I might be in the minority but I think its their last truly great output.
post #19 of 181
Yeah, Garage Inc. has some pretty great covers on there. Definitely check it out.
post #20 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post

The production on the early stuff is tinny and lacks beef. This really hurts it in the middle of a random. The speed and aggression are there but the production is wimpy and dated. That's not to say I don't enjoy it, I do. I think they're a little romanticized these days though.

Dude, please don't take offense by this, but you are the reason music today sounds like shit.* I think by "lacks beef", you mean "contains dynamics". This attitude of "louder is better" by the general public is the reason why producers and bands are mastering their music louder and louder every year. Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets sound fucking fantastic. The quiet parts are quiet, the loud parts are loud, the bass guitar is clearly audible, and unlike their more recent albums, the vocals aren't pushed to the forefront and it sounds natural.

I don't know how someone could complain about the production of an album like Master of Puppets and then praise Death Magnetic. It really is one of the worst sounding albums I have ever heard. The Guitar Hero version is a big improvement.

As far as the actual songs go though, I thought Death Magnetic was pretty damn good.


* Seriously not trying to be a jerk or attack you, but that attitude by the listening public is basically the reason for absurdly loud and compressed albums.
post #21 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
That's really the one album of theirs that I would love if they did a new mix of.


My only problem with Justice is the lack of bass. I actually love how cold and sterile everything sounds, but lowering the bass that drastically is a real head scratcher.
post #22 of 181
Another shout-out for Garage Inc., which could be their most underrated release. It's a given that Disc Two is classic Metallica at their very, very finest (worth the purchase alone), but Disc One showcases a band that finally was hitting on all cylinders when it morphed into a full-fledged hard rock outfit. Who would've thought it would take a kickass setlist of cover tunes to get their blood boiling again? I view Load and ReLoad as stepping stones to these reinvigorated sessions.

Yeah, buy it now.
post #23 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
Headless Fett, I hope you're under 20 years old. A grown man calling people posers and questioning how metal they are is just... it's just sad.
Actually this whole thread celebrating these sellouts is pretty damn sad in my book. Oh well, they'll keep making millions of dollars off of tools like you I'm sure.
post #24 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
Actually this whole thread celebrating these sellouts is pretty damn sad in my book. Oh well, they'll keep making millions of dollars off of tools like you I'm sure.
Please fuck off with your "I'm more metal than you" schtick. No one cares.
post #25 of 181
Nothing else matters. \m/..\m/*





*Sarcasm.
post #26 of 181
Go back to jerking off in the wrestling thread already.
post #27 of 181
Fett is so Br00tal!!!! He only likes underground metal bands, like Iron Maiden.
post #28 of 181
What a surprise. A thread about Metallica filled with witless cunts blowing each other. How fitting.

Have fun!
post #29 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
What a surprise. A thread about Metallica filled with witless cunts blowing each other. How fitting.

Have fun!
We will. Keep fighting the good fight!
post #30 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Dude, please don't take offense by this, but you are the reason music today sounds like shit.* I think by "lacks beef", you mean "contains dynamics". This attitude of "louder is better" by the general public is the reason why producers and bands are mastering their music louder and louder every year. Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets sound fucking fantastic. The quiet parts are quiet, the loud parts are loud, the bass guitar is clearly audible, and unlike their more recent albums, the vocals aren't pushed to the forefront and it sounds natural.

I don't know how someone could complain about the production of an album like Master of Puppets and then praise Death Magnetic. It really is one of the worst sounding albums I have ever heard. The Guitar Hero version is a big improvement.


* Seriously not trying to be a jerk or attack you, but that attitude by the listening public is basically the reason for absurdly loud and compressed albums.
Amen. I couldn't believe that opening post.

My favorite Metallica remains Kill 'Em All.

<original press with inclusion of "Blitzkrieg" and "Am I Evil?">

I don't understand the need to listen to 90's/00's Metallica at all.
post #31 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
My only problem with Justice is the lack of bass. I actually love how cold and sterile everything sounds, but lowering the bass that drastically is a real head scratcher.
There could be a number of reason, one is they were still hazing Newstead by mixing him out of the record. But it seems that Newstead wasn't present with the rest of the band for the mix downs, on top Hetfield claiming that all Newstead did was double his guitar parts. Which I don't give a shit if he did, I want to hear the bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
We will. Keep fighting the good fight!
Well, it's nice that that's over with.
post #32 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
There could be a number of reason, one is they were still hazing Newstead by mixing him out of the record. But it seems that Newstead wasn't present with the rest of the band for the mix downs, on top Hetfield claiming that all Newstead did was double his guitar parts. Which I don't give a shit if he did, I want to hear the bass.



Yea, I was gonna mention the hazing as a possible reason. That seems waaay too childish and stupid to be true, but that's the only reason that really comes to mind. That's a pretty weird way to haze a guy though, "Hey, lets purposely make our record sound worse just to spite the new guy!"
post #33 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Yea, I was gonna mention the hazing as a possible reason. That seems waaay too childish and stupid to be true, but that's the only reason that really comes to mind. That's a pretty weird way to haze a guy though, "Hey, lets purposely make our record sound worse just to spite the new guy!"
Remember though they were still in their 20s and raging alcoholics. And even though two years had passed, there probably was still some anger in them regarding Cliff Burton's death. Either way it still was a shitty thing to do.
post #34 of 181
Yeah I was gonna say it was probably out of misguided "tribute" to Cliff Burton.

I'm curious: at the big metal jam (Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer) a couple of weeks ago, did Mustaine finally play with the band again?
post #35 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
Yeah I was gonna say it was probably out of misguided "tribute" to Cliff Burton.

I'm curious: at the big metal jam (Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer) a couple of weeks ago, did Mustaine finally play with the band again?

Here are all four band performing "Am I Evil". The video is kinda shitty though.



Also, what the hell? Joey Belladonna is back in Anthrax. I thought John Bush had reunited with them last year.
post #36 of 181
Death Magnetic was a terrific return to form. St. Anger is still shit. I do like a few riffs on St. Anger (SKoM, Frantic), but the rest of that album gives me a headache. That damn snare and James yelling at the top of his lungs is not the best mix.

I also don't understand the hate the Loads get. Yeah, it's not And Justice For All or Master, but it's pretty good for a band trying something new. Hero of the Day is still that one Metallica song I love that most others hate.
post #37 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Dude, please don't take offense by this, but you are the reason music today sounds like shit.* I think by "lacks beef", you mean "contains dynamics". This attitude of "louder is better" by the general public is the reason why producers and bands are mastering their music louder and louder every year. Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets sound fucking fantastic. The quiet parts are quiet, the loud parts are loud, the bass guitar is clearly audible, and unlike their more recent albums, the vocals aren't pushed to the forefront and it sounds natural.

I don't know how someone could complain about the production of an album like Master of Puppets and then praise Death Magnetic. It really is one of the worst sounding albums I have ever heard. The Guitar Hero version is a big improvement.
I didn't say it needed to be louder. It's pretty well documented that early Metallica always lacked a beefy low end, even with Cliff. Justice was the pinnacle of that particular trend but the other stuff was fairly guilty of it. Hell, it was probably Cliff's talent that kept him in the mix as much as he was. It's not that much of an issue until it's put side to side with Load/Reload/Garage Inc. on a random. They come off as tinny in comparison. I'd take the Binge & Purge versions of their older stuff in a lot of cases.

St. Anger and Death Magnetic's mixes are shit and suffer from modern mixing, no doubt about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Yea, I was gonna mention the hazing as a possible reason. That seems waaay too childish and stupid to be true, but that's the only reason that really comes to mind. That's a pretty weird way to haze a guy though, "Hey, lets purposely make our record sound worse just to spite the new guy!"
Did you see Some Kind of Monster? I wouldn't say anything is too childish for these guys. I was always under the impression it was a lack of confidence in Newsted rather than a straight up hazing.
post #38 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
I didn't say it needed to be louder. It's pretty well documented that early Metallica always lacked a beefy low end, even with Cliff. Justice was the pinnacle of that particular trend but the other stuff was fairly guilty of it. Hell, it was probably Cliff's talent that kept him in the mix as much as he was. It's not that much of an issue until it's put side to side with Load/Reload/Garage Inc. on a random. They come off as tinny in comparison. I'd take the Binge & Purge versions of their older stuff in a lot of cases.

St. Anger and Death Magnetic's mixes are shit and suffer from modern mixing, no doubt about it.



Did you see Some Kind of Monster? I wouldn't say anything is too childish for these guys. I was always under the impression it was a lack of confidence in Newsted rather than a straight up hazing.


We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I think RTL and MOP sound great. Regarding the bass though, I will agree that after watching Some Kind of Monster I would not put anything past them.

And like Bub said, I don't care if Newsted was just doubling the guitar parts, I want some damn bass! Poor Jason, he got so much shit from the rest of the band, and he always seemed liked such a nice guy.
post #39 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
And like Bub said, I don't care if Newsted was just doubling the guitar parts, I want some damn bass! Poor Jason, he got so much shit from the rest of the band, and he always seemed liked such a nice guy.
Yeah, he got the shit end of the stick while in Metallica. I always did like when he would sing "Whiplash" live, that's something that was sorely missed once he left.

But hey, he got to join Voivod and put out three great albums with them.
post #40 of 181
Thread Starter 
They hired Newsted and he came in and did the job well. He was loyal and always brought boundless energy and mood to the live shows. He may not have been the best bassist but he was good enough to play with Metallica and never lost sight of the fact that metal is supposed to be fun.

You'd think after 15 years they wouldn't have shit on him they way they did. I think that made me lose more respect for Hetfield and Lars than the genre shifts and Napster stuff. The guy doesn't get enough credit, in my opinion.
post #41 of 181
Agree with both of you guys. Robert Trujillo is probably a more talented bassist than Jason, but his back up vocals kinda suck. Seems like a cool guy though.

And yea, James refusing to allow Jason to release his solo album and basically treating him like shit bothered me alot more than the Napster stuff. I know Lars gets shit on alot (rightfully so alot of the time), but to me James came looking the worst with the Jason exodus.

If you haven't already read it, there's a really interesting Playboy interview with all four members from 2001, after the Napster suit but before jason left the band. To their credit, Kirk and Lars both were fine with Newsted releasing his album. It was only James that objected.
post #42 of 181
If the bass wouldn't have been a nonentity on ...And Justice For All, the album could've been absolutely killer sonically. A total ear-bleeder. So frustrating knowing the potential for a superior aural experience.

One of the reasons The Black Album works for me is because of Newsted. He really got to show his stuff on that disc.
post #43 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Abed View Post
If the bass wouldn't have been a nonentity on ...And Justice For All, the album could've been absolutely killer sonically. A total ear-bleeder. So frustrating knowing the potential for a superior aural experience.
Yea, unfortunately I feel the same way. You may wanna check this out, I guess it's Jason's unaltered bass lines, just boosted in the mix from the Rock Band tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuSd...eature=related
post #44 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
Yea, unfortunately I feel the same way. You may wanna check this out, I guess it's Jason's unaltered bass lines, just boosted in the mix from the Rock Band tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuSd...eature=related
Holy shit. Amazing.

Thanks for posting that. Makes me want to revisit the album this morning just to analyze the production.
post #45 of 181
No problem. There's another guy who did the same thing with Blackened and Dyers Eve, if you wanted to check those out.
post #46 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Q View Post
They hired Newsted and he came in and did the job well. He was loyal and always brought boundless energy and mood to the live shows. He may not have been the best bassist but he was good enough to play with Metallica and never lost sight of the fact that metal is supposed to be fun.

You'd think after 15 years they wouldn't have shit on him they way they did. I think that made me lose more respect for Hetfield and Lars than the genre shifts and Napster stuff. The guy doesn't get enough credit, in my opinion.
Newsted wrote pretty much all the first Flotsam and Jetsam album, and his bass is prominent in the mix. It ain't the "best" album, but it shows some rudimentary talent from a kid in his early 20s; he wrote about half the 2nd F&J album, which is MUCH better.

AND his work with VoiVod shows the guy had a lot to contribute; too bad Metallica didn't let him.


As for the band, they're the Star Wars of heavy metal - and the black album is their AotC.
post #47 of 181
Sorry but I just don't buy that analogy st sll Vhavez, the black album is well above average.

I've been listening to alot of Metallica lately, I'd always been a fan of the black album so I decided to delve into their catalogue more. Initially, I wasn't impressed with Kill 'Em All and Ride the Lightning but I've since come to appreciate them but only in a casual sense, I love Master of Puppets and And Justice for All, I can see where Tim is coming from in regards to the production of Metallica's earlier albums, I've got used to it but at first listen it felt kind of sub-[par, I think it might be the way Lars drumming is mixed, it just doesn't sound as heavy as it should be but that's just me.

Garage Inc. has some terrifc covers, all the talk of Newsted getting shafted on Metallica's recordsings reminds me of Metallica's cover of 'Yhe Wait', Newsted really does some solid work on that one and his bass is more firmly upfront. Holy shit do those remixed tracks Tim posted sound amazing, it's like an added weight to their songs.

As far as Load/Reload goes, Metallica had a choice, either be permanently stuck in the eighties or attempt to move forward, the black album is partly the result of this decision but they moved firther on to Load, there are some decent songs on both albums but they remain unremarkable then came the clusterfuck that was Sr, Anger, the album they had to make in order to make Death Magnetic which is a superiot return to form as far Hetfield and Hammett, Trujilo can barely be heard which is par for the course, I guess and Lars rekindles some of that old magicm. it's really Hetfield and Hammet's show though.

Anyone listen to Gsrsge Inc. revisited? It's got some interesting covers but also some covers better left slone, Bob Seger?
post #48 of 181
Lest anyone forget: Reload was all B-Sides from Load to begin with. Wasn't surprised in the least 90% of it turned out to be shit.

It does, however, have Memory Remains, Unforgiven II, and Low Man's Lyric on it. I have no regrets owning that album based solely on those three.

Is it blasphemy that I've come to see Load as better than The Black Album as time goes on? The songwriting is generally stronger and darker, the album proudly wears its blues influences on its sleeve, and the band remembers that once in a while its okay to let a song stretch and breathe.

And its a lesser factor, but yeah, the fact that its best tracks haven't been radio played into the goddamned ground helps.

I agree the old albums could use a remaster, but not necessarily for loudness so much as clarity. The pre-Black Album CDs have always sounded way too thin for their own good. Meanwhile, Reign In Blood came out around the exact same time, and even the older CD of that album still sounds like it could've been released yesterday.

Also, because nobody's mentioned it, I have to throw some love to S&M. Still the only live album I've ever felt the need to own.
post #49 of 181
I always thought they killed the bass on Justice out of some sort of deference to Cliff. That Shortest Straw video sure as hell makes me wish they would remaster the album though. I get, and even like, the subsumed bass (Justice is easily me favorite Metallica album), but I would also like to hear it with some whomp.

Death Magnetic is really good.
post #50 of 181
I'd also like to go on record with this: The early pressings on St. Anger had a DVD of the band performing the entire album, with Trujillo on bass, in the studio, no breaks. God help me, the album almost sounds good there. And if anything, you see the band with chemistry again, having fun with it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Music
CHUD.com Community › Forums › MUSIC › Music › Metallica