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Metallica - Page 2

post #51 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I'd also like to go on record with this: The early pressings on St. Anger had a DVD of the band performing the entire album, with Trujillo on bass, in the studio, no breaks. God help me, the album almost sounds good there. And if anything, you see the band with chemistry again, having fun with it.
Jesus Christ, no. I don't care what setting, Invisible Kid and Shoot Me Again will never be good songs. Ever.
post #52 of 181
Regrettably, whatever Metallica does in the future will always be compared to those first few albums and will be found lacking. This is not a knock on their later albums, though. It's just that the first four were that good. In fact I still believe that the most appropriate critical reaction to Ride The Lightning is "FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" They were fucking earth shattering.

And this is coming from someone who loves the black album, Garage Inc and Death Magnetic. For a while I even was the resident Load apologist among my circle. Let us not speak of Reload and St.Anger again.
post #53 of 181
Thread Starter 
Some more info regarding remasters:

I did a little research regarding remasters of the older CD's. There were some gold remasters but apparently they just cleaned up the sound a bit as opposed to a full on remaster. A fellow named "Tech-Noir" took it upon himself to remaster everything from Ride the Lightning thru The Black Album. His stuff is out there but I haven't listened to it.

The reason I mention this is because he does a very detailed explanation of the "fixes" he had apply to the original versions. Anyone interested in how incredible these early albums would sound with official remasters would do themselves right to read this (presumed) professional's comments on their shortcomings.
post #54 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanW View Post
Sorry but I just don't buy that analogy st sll Vhavez, the black album is well above average.
Less a qualitative comparison and more about the fact that it is/was a controversial flashpoint - i.e. "James Hetfield raped my childhood" sort of hyperbole.
post #55 of 181
Metallica are one of the few (non-Jazz) bands that I prefer listening to Live CDs over the studio albums. Their live stuff is pretty amazing because they're remarkably tight and powerful performers in front of an audience.

I've actually, for my sins, been really getting into their symphonic collaboration with Michael Kamen. S and M probably has some of my favourite Metallica moments, but the version of The Memory Remains on that album/DVD is pretty much the definitive version for me.
post #56 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Metallica are one of the few (non-Jazz) bands that I prefer listening to Live CDs over the studio albums. Their live stuff is pretty amazing because they're remarkably tight and powerful performers in front of an audience.
They were once. Lars forgetting how to play his instrument some time around 2001/2002 really takes away from their live show.
post #57 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Lest anyone forget: Reload was all B-Sides from Load to begin with. Wasn't surprised in the least 90% of it turned out to be shit.

It does, however, have Memory Remains, Unforgiven II, and Low Man's Lyric on it. I have no regrets owning that album based solely on those three.
The only tracks I dig on ReLoad are, "Devil's Dance", "The Unforgiven II", "Where the Wild Things Are" and "Fixxxer".
post #58 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I've actually, for my sins, been really getting into their symphonic collaboration with Michael Kamen. S and M probably has some of my favourite Metallica moments, but the version of The Memory Remains on that album/DVD is pretty much the definitive version for me.
I agree with the love for S&M. I also really like the songs written just for that performance; No Leaf Clover and Minus Human.
post #59 of 181

I love resurrecting old threads, PK style...

 

Anyway, did anyone pick up the Beyond Magnetic EP that just came out?  It was part of the 30th anniversary celebration they just did in San Fran (they played a song each night - and got Mustaine to play with them, that must have been fun).  I'm listening to it now, it's pretty good.  Not as good as the songs that made it onto Death Magnetic, but compared to Lulu it's Mozart.

post #60 of 181

They're quickly plastering "Metallica" on any and all things the name will fit on. Gene Simmons would be proud, except that means less people buying junk with the word "KISS" plastered on it.

 

 

post #61 of 181

I'm not certain whether they are from Load or Reload, but I actually LIKE Ain't My Bitch and Fuel.  These two songs still have nothing on the first four albums from Metallica though.  Creeping Death is a fucking GODLIKE song. 

post #62 of 181

Ain't My Bitch and Fuel are certainly highlights of that period. The Metallica of the Load/Reload period are a band who got a taste for 'legitimacy' and desperately wanted to show they were broadening their musical horizons, but just couldn't work out what the fuck music they actually wanted TO make. However, when they occasionally kicked the riffs out they showed they could still deliver.

 

Beyond Magnetic is okay, but you can see why the songs were cut. They all feel fairly scattershot, with none of the focus of a lot of the stuff on Death Magnetic. Best track IMO is Just a Bullet Away, which reminds me a lot of Volbeat (Who, interestingly enough, were heavily influenced by Metallica and toured with them extensively... Bit of mutual influence going on there, it seems).

 

Also worthy are the 30th anniversary shows, which have been released for download. It'll cost you $40 for all four shows, but they're well worth the scratch - the setlists and range of guests they had was insane. Newsted up playing a bunch of songs? Yes. Reuniting with Mustaine, Ron McGovney and Lloyd Grant? HELL YES. John Bush tears the shit out of Four Horsemen as well - interesting that they offered him the singer's slot back in the day.

 

Unfortunately, there are brief incursions by both Marianne Faithfull AND Lou Reed to play their crappy collaborations, but the good well outweighs the bad here. If anything, the band trying valiantly - if unconvincingly -  to pump up the crowd for Reed's entrance helps ameliorate the painfulness of the Lulu material. Overall though, the setlists are awesome and the band mostly tight, save a couple of stumbles (e.g. Fucking up Suicide & Redemption on two separate nights) If you're looking for some 'Tallica live stuff that gives a good overview of their career highlights, you can certainly do worse than this.

post #63 of 181

Cliff Who? Hulk Hogan was almost the bass player in Metallica, according to Hulk Hogan: http://www.nme.com/news/metallica/61668#9

 

Frankly, the Hulkster's a notorious gobshite and this should taken not with a pinch of salt, but with the salt mine dumped on it. But this, along with his also-professed love of working out to The Stone Roses, sure makes for some wonderful images.

 

So eat your vitamins, say your prayers and OBEY YOUR MASTER, BROTHER!

 

MASTER, BROTHER!!

 

hoganguitar.jpg

post #64 of 181

You know what? Even though I like Trujillo, after Lulu a Metallica record with Hulk as bassist wouldn't faze me. I think Lars is missing on a pretty sweet pay day if he doesn't pursue this.  

post #65 of 181

Does Beyond Magnetic have the same overdriven production as the album? Loved the material, but man, the noise wars have ruined so many good records.

post #66 of 181

The songs on beyond magnetic don't sound as finished as the ones that made it onto DM.

post #67 of 181
I have a stupid story to tell. Been listening to Metallica on heavy rotation for a few weeks, a lot of them being my first exposure. Until recently, the only albums I had of theirs were Kill 'Em All, Master of Puppets and the self titled black album. Master of Puppets was my first Metallica album from high school. I wanted to get a full length album of theirs rather than ease my way with a greatest hits or something, and most sources pointed to that one being the best, though I often read how it's debatable. It's what I went with, and it's the one Metallica album I know most by heart. Every once in awhile I listen to it and it takes me back to being 17 and what was going on in that time. Even right now, as I am going through a heavy rotation, it's still my favorite of theirs and will remain so even with some really good contenders.

My second Metallica album was that 1991 black album during my first year in college, and I have to say I was let down when I first got it. After Master of Puppets and reading how it's their biggest selling record, that it's what most people know Metallica from, the hype certainly hurt it. "This is it?" It's only going through my heavy rotation recently that I'm appreciating it a lot more, especially as I listened to their albums in release order to get a sense of how they evolved. After the first four albums, it does seem like this was their next step. Still plenty of nice musical interludes going on before the vocals kick in, but it is certainly more "mainstream" or lack of a better term.

Kill 'Em All was my third album that I got a little later after the black album. But it was a CD rip of a friend's who let me borrow it so I could listen on my ipod. OOPS, sorry Lars. All I can recall of listening to that from back then was how rougher sounding it was, not musically but production wise. It's obviously a bunch of kids who are finding themselves but fuck do they have potential. Now as I revisit it on rotation I'm really appreciative of this as the solid start for a great run. It's really not a bad way to introduce Metallica to anyone who hasn't heard any of their work. It's very basic in a sense and prepares you for what's coming, or at least warms you up. I had a real kick hearing it in X-MEN: APOCALYPSE that was on the nose but delightfully geeky.

That leaves two others I'm less familiar with but finally getting around to: Ride the Lightning and ...And Justice for All. The former I got a few years ago but never properly gave it a spin and the latter I got just a few months ago and am finally digging my teeth in. Now onto my rotation. I've been doing a lot of driving and I've wanted to use my 5 disc changer for once instead of listening to a podcast on ipod or the radio. Sound isn't too great with ipod because I still use a tape deck and adapter. Yeah, I'm very old school like that. CDs obviously sound much better, but I haven't used my changer much. With five slots and five Metallica albums I have in my modest CD collection, why not put em all in? It's almost been a month and I've never felt more happy and charged driving. I love hearing how the band progressed through their first five, especially as I get into the albums I'm least familiar with. "The Call of Ktulu" may be my favorite instrumental of theirs ever. Now I really understand why there's a debate between Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets being the best album of theirs. It's a tough contender, but I still stand by Master and probably sense a lot of shaking heads at that. Whatever, sentimental attachment and all. I'm currently on my third rotation, in the middle of Master. Will continue it until I get tired, but I dunno when.

Oh yeah, and they made other albums afterward... All I can say about that is I heard Reload once in high school, which was after having been accustomed to Master of Puppets. The lack of musical interludes, hearing vocals kick in only seconds in the song was offputting. I don't remember thinking it was bad, but I can understand longtime fans or fans of those earlier albums being easily put off. Haven't listened to any other Metallica album beyond that. Familiar with "I Disappear", which is whatever. I only heard that one song from St. Anger that I can't even recall musically, all I remember was Hetfield's "ticktockticktockticktock" and the asinine "KEEP SEARCHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEE" and that's about it. Reading comments about that album, I take it that it's not very good. And I've heard nothing from "Death Magnetic" but I understand that's apparently a return to roots for the band, and Bob Rock fucked off for the amazing Rick Rubin to take over producing. That sounds more promising.

In the meantime, I'm on rotation.
post #68 of 181
I'd advise anyone getting into Metallica to ignore the fans for the most part and listen with an open mind. The fans are moany to say the least.

The first five are all varying degrees of good so here are mini-reviews of their controversial later material:

Load: I understand this was slated as a sell out attempt to get on the 90's alternative rock bandwagon, but out of that context it sounds more classic rock influenced than anything. It's too long but taken as an attempt to dabble in lighter hearted, more traditional rock songwriting styles it's actually pretty decent. Their most underrated album.

Reload: Similarly overlong, but worse in this case because they were clearly scraping the barrel to fill out every spare minute on the CD. People who accuse the digital world of hurting the album format forget this shitty 90's trend of cranking out 79 minute albums just because they could. Things are actually much better now!

The more experimental tracks can be good (e.g. that weird hurdy gurdy ballad) but there's a full album's worth of filler on it. Should've been an EP if anything.

Garage Inc I've never heard.

St Anger: On one hand an admirable attempt to at the same time return to their unpolished roots after all the slick radio stuff, react to recent trends in metal, and do something adventurous and unexpected. Unfortunately, a few cool riffs aside, the songs are absolute shite.

Death Magnetic: long overdue marriage of their 80's and 90's sounds that actually does a pretty convincing job of showing they can still do it. The first five tracks are flat out excellent, only some filler later on lets it down.

Lulu: for my money one of the weirdest follies in rock. A completely mismatched combo, going all out making this epic double album. The band contribute some good riffs, it's Lou's fragile vocals that let the side down more than anything.

This was immediately hailed as one of the worst records ever made but I think there is some legit good stuff on it, and even the bad stuff is like nothing you've ever heard. Bowie said it would be reevaluated one day and I think he was right!
post #69 of 181

Load and Reload would have been easily forgiven if they were a single album instead of two and weren't followed by St. Anger.

post #70 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post


People who accuse the digital world of hurting the album format forget this shitty 90's trend of cranking out 79 minute albums just because they could. Things are actually much better now!

 

You know what digital music needs more credit for actually killing? 30-minute long final tracks consisting of last song, twenty minutes of pointless silence then 'surprise' bonus song/studio offcut. That crap just got ridiculous.

 

Load and Reload always felt to me like Metallica's big push to convince everyone that they were 'more' than Metal. I vaguely remember reading an interview at the time where one of them (My memory says Hammett but don't hold me on this - I was drunk a lot in the 90s) claimed that "We're not a metal band", and so much of their behaviour during that period bears this out. I remember them suddenly showing up a lot in upmarket/music-snob magazines like Q and Select, and on shows like Later with Jools Holland. There's some strong material on those albums, but the general vibe of suddenly being 'above' Metal just got offputting to me.

 

I think that S&M was the culmination of that phase, and I've never gotten the love that that thing's always received. I've always found the orchestration on it to be fairly terrible, like Kamen and the band started out aiming for counterpoint but it just turned into a massive band/orchestra cockfight with the latter constantly butting against the songs rather than enhancing them. Looking back, it feels like the band finally getting this 'musical social climbing' thing out of their system. Problem was, as evidenced by what we see of the St. Anger sessions in Some Kind of Monster, they had no idea of where to go after that point.

post #71 of 181
I never liked S&M. I never saw the point beyond self-congratulatory masturbation.
post #72 of 181
I totally forgot about S&M. That's a one-listen novelty album, if even that.

If it had actually been orchestral arrangements of Metallica songs that might've been interesting, but instead it's just the regular songs with a load of syrupy strings on top. If those songs needed that stuff they'd have been there in the first place!

As for the 'not a metal band' thing, I can sympathise with that. No one wants to be pigeonholed and I can't blame them for wanting to branch out a bit. Unfortunately they're not that good at branching out.
post #73 of 181
Hell has frozen over... they are finally in the mixing stage for their new album.

This is the longest period of time between records. St. Anger was 5 years removed from Reload, as was Death Magnetic from St. Anger.

This one is 8 years since Death Magnetic!
post #74 of 181

Jeez. Has it really been eight years since the last Metallica album?

post #75 of 181

Yeah.  It's pretty ridiculous, although Tool is probably the current record holder with a solid 10 years and counting since their last record.

post #76 of 181

New song, Hardwired: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBHL3v4d3I

 

Album comes out November 18th.

post #77 of 181

Shit, now that's more like it.

post #78 of 181
Nice. Short, fast and to the point. It's a great first taste. Considering that their biggest mistake lately was letting their songs get at least a minute and a half too long.
post #79 of 181
I wonder why they decided to release 80 minutes of music on two CDs instead of condensing the album down to 78 minutes.

Maybe there is a thematic purpose.
post #80 of 181

Still trying to win tickets to see them this weekend.

post #81 of 181

"Hardwired... To Self-Destruct" is a very Megadethy album title.

 

New track sounds exactly like something off the last album (which I'm kind of shocked to realize was 8 years ago!), but gets the job done. Quite looking forward to it.

post #82 of 181

It's a tight little firecracker of a tune.  I dig it.

post #83 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

Yeah.  It's pretty ridiculous, although Tool is probably the current record holder with a solid 10 years and counting since their last record.

post #84 of 181

A lot better than I was expecting.  It's got a bit of a punk vibe that I certainly appreciate (amazing what you can do when your songs aren't four minutes longer than they need to be).  The drums are still obnoxiously high in the mix.  Lars has a fragile ego, apparently. 

post #85 of 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by catartik View Post

I wonder why they decided to release 80 minutes of music on two CD's instead of condensing the album down to 78 minutes.

Maybe there is a thematic purpose.

 

This is an interesting detail. Technically it'll be their first ever double album, even though it's only 2 minutes longer than the CD-fillers they've been putting out for the last 20 years. Maybe it'll be split in some way like having fast songs on one and slower songs on the other? Either way, it's promising that they seem to be putting some thought into the structure.

post #86 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Macken View Post
 

The drums are still obnoxiously high in the mix.  Lars has a fragile ego, apparently. 

 

He's also barely able to maintain the tempo.  Pretty sure he loses it a few times during that song, in fact.

post #87 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

 

He's also barely able to maintain the tempo.  Pretty sure he loses it a few times during that song, in fact.

 

Right, which makes no sense as the whole song, along with his drumming, was digitally cut and pasted…it's not like he's forced to record this straight through in one take?  I'm trying not to be too negative, because I actually do like the song, but there's not a chance in hell he can pull this song off live. He wasn't particularly adept at double bass drumming even at his absolute peak as a musician. 

post #88 of 181

I'm not entirely surprised by the double album announcement since they've been working on this thing forever and tend to release pretty long tracks.  Pretty cool that our first taste was a short corker - I like it!

post #89 of 181
Hammett's solo is rubbish (but then I've not heard anything worthwhile from him since, if I'm charitable, Load) but the rest seems appropriately thrashy and good. Agree about Lars' drumming...haha, but then what would a Metallica discussion be without a bit of Lars shade.
post #90 of 181
Liking it. Nice and thrashy. But yeah, it should be amusing watching Lars giving himself an aneurysm trying to do those double kick parts live.
post #91 of 181
Musically, it's decent. But man do Hetfield's "angry" vocals not work for me at all anymore. They sound so insincere and calculated. At this point I prefer him in earnest storytelling mode ala "The Day That Never Comes."
post #92 of 181

I'll say this, I saw Metallica trending on Twitter yesterday and thought "Who the hell still gives a shit about this band?"

 

This thread partly answered that question. 

post #93 of 181
It's not like it's eliciting breathless fanboy reactions from anyone so I'm not sure what your point is? If the Rolling Stones put out a new single I'd give that a shot as well, why not?
post #94 of 181

Didn't you know? Metallica are so over, man.

 

I really don't get this attitude. There's room for Gojira and Mantar and Fleshgod Apocalypse and Metallica and Maiden and Rotting Christ and everyone. And Babymetal.

post #95 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

It's not like it's eliciting breathless fanboy reactions from anyone so I'm not sure what your point is? If the Rolling Stones put out a new single I'd give that a shot as well, why not?

 

I just didn't think they had that big of a following anymore.

 

Relax. It's only rock and roll. 

 

ETA: Aerosmith had a new album in 2012 that went absolutely nowhere. I kind of thought Metallica was at that point as well but as I said, I was wrong. 

post #96 of 181
New Metallica releases have always been a point of controversy, when they fail they tend to fail on a grand scale (case in point: Lulu). That combined with their slow rate of output keeps them an interesting band to follow IMO.
post #97 of 181
Metallica are still huge and persisting past their generational sweet spot. We had a German exchange student stay with us last year who was into all sorts of various -core music (I'm old, I can't keep up with the proliferation of sub-genres) and she basically stole my St Anger CD despite me telling her it was utter toss. "No", she said, "they're old but cool. They're where it comes from."

Metallica are going to be for the next few generations what Zeppelin was to mine.
post #98 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Episode29 View Post

Musically, it's decent. But man do Hetfield's "angry" vocals not work for me at all anymore. They sound so insincere and calculated. At this point I prefer him in earnest storytelling mode ala "The Day That Never Comes."

The chorus of "All Nightmare Long" sounded like an approximation of vintage Hetfield and is where I like to hear him these days. Plus, and I'm probably the only one, Unforgiven III worked in terms of vocals (and the Morricone opening).
post #99 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
 

Didn't you know? Metallica are so over, man.

 

I really don't get this attitude. There's room for Gojira and Mantar and Fleshgod Apocalypse and Metallica and Maiden and Rotting Christ and everyone. And Babymetal.

But how else will people know how cool Mike J is?

post #100 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 

But how else will people know how cool Mike J is?

Didn't you block me because of how super cool and above it all you are?

 

But thanks for checking in, cheese dick. Good to know I'm still on your mind. 

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