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Hook

post #1 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
I'm surprised there's not already a thread for this movie, but oh well.

I have a weird relationship with this movie. It's a very watchable movie, but I don't entirely love it, nor do I entirely hate it. I mean, when you look at the movie, there really is a lot to like here. John Williams' score may be one of his best, with my favorite cue being either "Flight To Neverland" or the similar "Prologue" from the soundtrack/teaser trailer. Williams, Hoffman and Hoskins all give solid performances, and Maggie Smith remains an international treasure. The scene where the children are taken and the aftermath is great, vintage Spielberg, and there are nice little touches like Hoffman being the voice of the airplane captain all over the place.

But my God the child actors in this movie are horrible. Well, Charlie Korsmo's OK as Jack (he's better in Dick Tracy, though), but everyone else falls prey to the worst kind of child-actor mugging imaginable, although Dante Basco manages to escape my wrath since he did such a great job as Zuko on Avatar: The Last Airbender. The scenes with the Lost Boys are just painful, and Spielberg generally pours on the schmaltz too much throughout the movie. Additionally, Julia Roberts just seems off as Tinkerbell, the sets are impressive but not immersive, and the action scenes are weirdly flat and boring considering how Spielberg is usually a master of this sort of thing.

In short, Hook is a decent watch, but frustrating because it could have been great.
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post #2 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:05pm
I don't find it watchable at all anymore. I'd rather just listen to the score and imagine the better film it conjures up.
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post #3 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:09pm
I've seen this film exactly once, when I was about ten. Too this day I still have the refrain of 'Hook, Hook! Where's the Hook?' rattling around in my head. The entire introduction of Captain Hook is amazingly vivid in my memory whilst the rest of the film I can't remember a single thing from.
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post #4 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I've seen this film exactly once, when I was about ten. Too this day I still have the refrain of 'Hook, Hook! Where's the Hook?' rattling around in my head. The entire introduction of Captain Hook is amazingly vivid in my memory whilst the rest of the film I can't remember a single thing from.
Yeah, that's a pretty good scene. Dickson, I mostly agree with you, but when I say "watchable" I mean it's the kind of movie I can watch on TV if nothing else is on. And I agree that the score suggests a better movie than the one we got, but I can still enjoy aspects of the final product.
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post #5 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:32pm
It just tries too damn hard to be whimsical, which is the worst way to conjure up whimsy. The only people who I think don't embarrass themselves are Hoffman and Hoskins. Williams is too damn manic, Roberts is just a disaster, and the less said about the Lost Boys the better.
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post #6 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
It just tries too damn hard to be whimsical, which is the worst way to conjure up whimsy. The only people who I think don't embarrass themselves are Hoffman and Hoskins. Williams is too damn manic, Roberts is just a disaster, and the less said about the Lost Boys the better.
OK, I can certainly get behind that line of reasoning. Honestly, I wish they had been able to keep Kevin Kline as Peter since, while I really do like Robin Williams and some of his performance here, I think Kline would've made a more believable transition from "total asshole" to "Peter Pan".

Not to mention he would've been much easier on the eyes in those tights.
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post #7 of 34
7/9/10 at 4:58pm
As the resident Julia Roberts apologist, I must...concur. She didn't work in the role. If memory serves, she was going through personal shit at the time, but I can't argue with the fact that she was all sorts of wrong.
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post #8 of 34
7/9/10 at 9:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry Leper View Post
As the resident Julia Roberts apologist, I must...concur. She didn't work in the role. If memory serves, she was going through personal shit at the time, but I can't argue with the fact that she was all sorts of wrong.
Honestly, I'm kind of predisposed to dislike Julia Roberts anyway (she grinds Ocean's Eleven, a movie I like very much, to a halt any time she opens her mouth), but even if I wasn't, her performance here would still be awful. Apparently she was pretty difficult to deal with on the set and the crew nicknamed her "Tinkerhell" as a result.
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post #9 of 34
7/10/10 at 4:32am
I was raised on all things Peter Pan, and that includes this, so I'm super biased but I love the movie. I'm sure it's just nostalgia and I'll see all of its faults eventually (a la The Goonies) but it's still one of those movies that I can watch over and over again. It brings up so many associated memories and feelings that it's sort of an emotional journey every time I watch it.

I will say that for whatever faults it may have, Dustin Hoffman is really great as Hook. And Hoskins too.
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post #10 of 34
7/10/10 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Honestly, I'm kind of predisposed to dislike Julia Roberts anyway (she grinds Ocean's Eleven, a movie I like very much, to a halt any time she opens her mouth), but even if I wasn't, her performance here would still be awful. Apparently she was pretty difficult to deal with on the set and the crew nicknamed her "Tinkerhell" as a result.
Didn't Spielberg vow to never hire her again after they wrapped production?
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post #11 of 34
7/10/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspberry Leper View Post
If memory serves, she was going through personal shit at the time
I'd always heard that replacing "personal shit" with "lots and lots of cocaine" would be more accurate.
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post #12 of 34
7/10/10 at 9:49am
There are some good things in it, but it's a really ugly movie, full of really ugly sets and costumes. I really liked it as a kid, and I'm generally fine with enjoying a movie for nostalgia's sake (like Kindergarten Cop!), but if I ever see a frame of this I'm just embarrassed that I liked it.

Another reason Roberts is so noticeably bad is that all her scenes were shot with no set or other actors to work off, just a green screen. She was in her own world. I like Hoffman in this, but I think his charisma and comic timing actually hurt the film, because it becomes unbalanced. He's impossible to root against, and even as a child, I was desperately hoping he'd kill Robin Williams and all the Lost Boys, especially the fat one. At least he got Rufio.

I also think it's easily Spielberg's worst movie, simply because it's so damn obnoxious.
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post #13 of 34
7/10/10 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I've seen this film exactly once, when I was about ten. Too this day I still have the refrain of 'Hook, Hook! Where's the Hook?' rattling around in my head. The entire introduction of Captain Hook is amazingly vivid in my memory whilst the rest of the film I can't remember a single thing from.
For me, it's the Suicide scene that sticks in my head.


"Don't try to stop me Smee!!!"


that and the Boo box.
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post #14 of 34
7/10/10 at 10:10am
That moment at the end when Hook is defeated and he asks Peter to leave him his dignity really pissed me off, because it showed that there was a potentially great film hiding underneath all that crap. It's a really poignant moment that forces both of them to wonder just what they've been fighting about all these years. Then they had to go a drop the Croc Tower on Hook for the cheap way out.

My fanboy love of Spielberg is no secret around here, and I despise this film. It's the only film of his I can't sit down and watch just because it's Spielberg. It feels like a total sell-out, and I'm glad he got whatever it was out of his system, because he's made nothing since then that even comes close to this level of suck (even Crystal Skull). I'm embarrassed that my wife likes it.
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post #15 of 34
7/10/10 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I don't find it watchable at all anymore. I'd rather just listen to the score and imagine the better film it conjures up.
Read: this one.

Equally relevant since the score is the only thing in that flick that doesn't work.
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post #16 of 34
7/10/10 at 10:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Read: this one.

Equally relevant since the score is the only thing in that flick that doesn't work.
Ooh, yes, that is a great one. Although I don't think the score's that bad, personally. It's just kind of weird and synth-y in places. That's definitely an underrated little gem, though, and certainly the best live-action version I've seen.

And Dickson, I do have to agree on both being a Spielberg fanboy and that this is his worst film (at least from what I've seen, and I honestly enjoy Crystal Skull [don't hurt me!]) by a country mile. It's definitely a "guilty pleasure", though.
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post #17 of 34
7/10/10 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
That moment at the end when Hook is defeated and he asks Peter to leave him his dignity really pissed me off, because it showed that there was a potentially great film hiding underneath all that crap. It's a really poignant moment that forces both of them to wonder just what they've been fighting about all these years. Then they had to go a drop the Croc Tower on Hook for the cheap way out.
Having recently re-watched this I completely agree with you. The film seems to want to make parallels between Hook and adult Peter but never really goes anywhere with the idea.

The flak the film gets for its schmaltz and sentimentality are well-deserved. Unlike some people I don't really mind the sentimentality in most of Spielberg's films but Hook really rubs me the wrong way. Coming out in the early nineties the film strikes me as an attempt to cope with Baby Boomer guilt stemming from the embrace of corporate culture in the eighties.

Of course I could just be reading too much into things.
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post #18 of 34
7/12/10 at 1:42pm
What kind of little league is still going in December? That always bothered me. Plus it's just not a good movie. I once heard Spielberg cried after the first screening.
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post #19 of 34
7/12/10 at 1:48pm
I love this movie. I'm not gonna disagree with anyone who says it's flawed, because it really is, but it works for me despite all that. I first saw it when I was very young though, so it's probably nostalgia talking. Hook, Neverending Story, and Labyrinth were the films I grew up on and I can't not love them.
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post #20 of 34
7/12/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I'd always heard that replacing "personal shit" with "lots and lots of cocaine" would be more accurate.
I don't know. She's denied any excessive drug use (for what that's worth) and Spielberg has scoffed at the notion. For whatever the reason, it is a fairly miserable performance.

I will always have a bad taste in my mouth for this movie through no fault of it's own - I saw this when I was working at a theatre, and the day I did I was only running in to pick up my check. While I was there I ran into someone and we decided to see the film. Problem is I forgot I had parked in a no parking zone, assuming I would be in and out in 2 or 3 minutes. Fucking movie ended up costing me $150 for the parking ticket.
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post #21 of 34
7/12/10 at 2:10pm
This film is shit.

I love Peter Pan. The Barrie stories are some of my favorite literature of all time. And Hook had such great promise, but end up being riddled with great problems. Williams seems to be in full jackass mode, and Roberts just doesn't work at all, "mental illness" is what Spielberg says, but probably coke. The Lost Boys are horrible, like most of you say. Just unwatchable, cringe-worthy performances. The sets are grand and huge but distractingly fake and filmed all wrong. They look like playground sets at a Chuck-E-Cheese on steroids.

But Hoffman, Hoskins, and Maggie Smith are top-notch. And John Williams is magical here. The script is pretty good, and The Beard admits the film being awful was his fault. Some other filmmaker should try to crack the script. This movie is such a painful blunder to me.
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post #22 of 34
7/13/10 at 1:01am
Why the hell is David Crosby in this?
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post #23 of 34
7/13/10 at 1:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Woods View Post
Why the hell is David Crosby in this?
Probably the same reason Phil Collins is in it.
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post #24 of 34
7/13/10 at 1:55am
Jesus, even as a kid at the cinemas I found this film an utter chore to sit through. I've only been able to watch it five minutes at a time ever since.

Wasn't there even an extra creepy wrong-headed scene where Roberts' Tinkerbell became human sized and tries to come on to Williams' Peter or something? Ugh.

This is what happens when you build a script around the notion that everything that comes out of your young daughters mouth is wise and profound and there's no one in your life to just say "No Steve. No".
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post #25 of 34
7/13/10 at 2:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
This is what happens when you build a script around the notion that everything that comes out of your young daughters mouth is wise and profound and there's no one in your life to just say "No Steve. No".
Is that what happened? This is Spielberg's Sharkboy and Lavagirl?

My grandma used to make bootleg tapes (as per board rules, I want to emphasize that this was WRONG and that she is an evil little pirating shit) for us as kids, and this was one of them, so I loved it. But looking back, even though I haven't seen it since then, this movie seems ridiculously bad. The only redeeming factors are Bob Hoskins and Dustin Hoffman. It's still hard to believe that's Dustin Hoffman, it's such the antithesis of everything else he's done.
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post #26 of 34
7/13/10 at 3:30am
I do remember Hoffman and Hoskins being the only really honest to goodness 'good' things in the movie.

...and yeah Pat apparently the whole idea for the film started when Spielbergs daughter asked him "what happened when Peter Pan grew up?"
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post #27 of 34
7/13/10 at 4:03am
My favorite story about this movie is that Hoffman and Hoskins were apparently having such a miserable time on the set that they decided to play every seen between them with a gay subtext.
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post #28 of 34
7/13/10 at 4:22am
Wait...this isn't the daughter that's on Grey's Anatomy now is it? For some reason that would strike me as hilarious. "You and your mom are partly responsible for two of the worst films of Spielberg's career!"
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post #29 of 34
7/13/10 at 1:25pm
Hoffman seems to be channeling Ric Flair in this. It's quite extraordinary.
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post #30 of 34
8/7/10 at 2:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Youngblood View Post
My favorite story about this movie is that Hoffman and Hoskins were apparently having such a miserable time on the set that they decided to play every seen between them with a gay subtext.
Bastard, now I'm going to have to go and watch this shitty movie again.
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post #31 of 34
8/7/10 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
I wish they had been able to keep Kevin Kline as Peter, I think Kline would've made a more believable transition from "total asshole" to "Peter Pan".
I didn't know about this. Absolutely... Kline would have been a much better fit for the role.

I don't hate the movie, but this has made me bring it down even more from my lukewarm estimation of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
I'm generally fine with enjoying a movie for nostalgia's sake (like Kindergarten Cop!)
Nothing wrong with that movie. You go ahead and keep enjoying it. It's a fine piece of family entertainment.
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post #32 of 34
8/7/10 at 6:12pm
I have not seen it in several years, but I remember quite liking HOOK and finding it rather charming. The villains are genuinely scary, the art direction for NEVERLAND is stunning, and heck, I like the plot. It's a nifty idea.

Maybe I need to reexamine it with my newly formed adult eyes, but I think this is unfairly maligned in many circles (and I'm no Spielberg apologist)


PS As for the comment about the Child Actors being terrible for the most part, I hope we are not talking about Rufio. He was totally radical, dude!
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post #33 of 34
8/7/10 at 6:17pm
I'd like to chime in on some of the love for PJ Hogan's 2003 adaption of Pan, which destroys Spielberg's film in terms of quality by a mile. Plus, I might get shit upon for saying this, but Jason Isaac's take on the character is far more effective in my eyes, at least. Not trying to knock Hoffman's performance, as he's the best part of the film.
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post #34 of 34
8/7/10 at 8:51pm
Fucking A. Peter Pan obliterates Hook; it is successful in every single way Hook was shit, and make no mistake, Hook is total shit. It's not the worse film of Spielberg's career, but only because we now have Crystal Skull.
As the poster mentioned before, Hook seems to be trying to draw some parallels between Pan and Hook that never come to fruition where Hogan's Pan totally does, and feels effortless while doing it where as Hook is desperately trying it's ass off to work and just doesn't. It's not afraid of the sexaul subtext in Pan and comes up with some much better material because of that.
Isaac fucking owns as Hook. Owns.
It's not even close.
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