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Dragon Age II

post #1 of 560
7/13/10 at 10:57am
Thread Starter 
Details.

I like that they're splitting up combat on the console and PC versions. I'm not sure we need two Mass Effect games from BioWare, but playing from the perspective of a distinct, pre-formed character within the world you created in Origins sounds like an interesting concept.
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post #2 of 560
7/13/10 at 11:04am
Regarding dialog, I heard that DA2 will be closer to Alpha Protocol than Mass Effect. You will choose an attitude instead of direct responses and that dialog sections will be timed. Anyway, I can't wait for more information.
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post #3 of 560
7/13/10 at 11:06am
Thread Starter 
Somebody played Alpha Protocol?
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post #4 of 560
7/13/10 at 11:07am
You bet your ass.
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post #5 of 560
7/13/10 at 11:13am
And the MASS EFFECT dialogue wheel gets one step closer to being the industry RPG standard, as it should be.

Excellent.
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post #6 of 560
7/13/10 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
Somebody played Alpha Protocol?
Yeah, and the dialogue was one of the only things I'd recommend taking from it. I say this having liked the game for it's inherent scrappiness.

I can cope with Mass Effect 2 with swords. Given what I did with my last character I fully expect the King of Ferelden to have suffered a quiet heart attack in the events between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. Can't see them bothering to include dialogue to quickly skip over my Grey Warden's bloodthirsty road to power and subsequent failure to reign properly.

It would be neat to still have Alistair trotting around as King of Ferelden (if Awakenings is considered Canon).
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post #7 of 560
7/13/10 at 12:06pm
Given how frustrating the console versions were if you tried to play with more strategy than you would in Mass Effect, I guess this is a good thing.

I really wouldn't mind something more unique than Mass Effect: Fantasy Edition though.
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post #8 of 560
7/13/10 at 12:12pm
I never got why it was frustrating, once I worked out the tactics slots the game played really well for me. I got it to the point where my team were perhaps a little too efficent at murder, I barely had time to run up to an enemy before it was dead.

It does help that the tactics were essentially the same as the gambit system in FFXII which I played the shit out of.
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post #9 of 560
7/13/10 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall
I barely had time to run up to an enemy before it was dead.
I only found it frustrating because I couldn't easily control what every person in my party was doing all the time. Yeah, they'd see some guy and murder him before I even knew he was there and what's the fun of that?

I want to be more hands-on in the combat. Of course, I love turn-based RPG's so that would have been my combat system of choice for the game.
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post #10 of 560
7/13/10 at 12:46pm
Random thought here....

Since Dragon Age 2 will have a new main character but will supposedly import your save file from Origins, wouldn't it be a weird twist to encounter your character from the first game? Like they are sitting in a dark corner of a tavern. This would work really well if your Origins character decided to travel the world.

Or what if you get to play as your Origins character during a prologue chapter of the new game or something. I'm thinking something like the opening to ME2 with the main difference being that your Origins character would get killed or otherwise sidelined in favor of Hawke becoming the playable character.

I just thought that this could be intriguing if done right. It would most likely be a bit odd, but an interesting thought nonetheless.
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post #11 of 560
7/13/10 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon_Wizard View Post
Random thought here....

Since Dragon Age 2 will have a new main character but will supposedly import your save file from Origins, wouldn't it be a weird twist to encounter your character from the first game? Like they are sitting in a dark corner of a tavern. This would work really well if your Origins character decided to travel the world.

Or what if you get to play as your Origins character during a prologue chapter of the new game or something. I'm thinking something like the opening to ME2 with the main difference being that your Origins character would get killed or otherwise sidelined in favor of Hawke becoming the playable character.

I just thought that this could be intriguing if done right. It would most likely be a bit odd, but an interesting thought nonetheless.
Or you get to have sex with your character from Origins!

Creeped myself out there.
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post #12 of 560
7/13/10 at 7:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polygon_Wizard View Post
Random thought here....

Since Dragon Age 2 will have a new main character but will supposedly import your save file from Origins, wouldn't it be a weird twist to encounter your character from the first game? Like they are sitting in a dark corner of a tavern. This would work really well if your Origins character decided to travel the world.

Or what if you get to play as your Origins character during a prologue chapter of the new game or something. I'm thinking something like the opening to ME2 with the main difference being that your Origins character would get killed or otherwise sidelined in favor of Hawke becoming the playable character.

I just thought that this could be intriguing if done right. It would most likely be a bit odd, but an interesting thought nonetheless.
Bumping into your main character seems like the whole point of loading a save game into the sequel. If they don't do this, I'll be amazed.
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post #13 of 560
7/13/10 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeSmails View Post
Or you get to have sex with your character from Origins!

Creeped myself out there.
No problem, my characters were hotties.
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post #14 of 560
7/15/10 at 10:48am
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/gr...terview?page=1

Quote:
Eurogamer: You revealed Dragon Age 2 recently. The art style has changed and you now play a pre-determined hero. Why have you decided to make those changes?

Dr. Greg Zeschuk: It's a weird way to say it, but part of it's the passion of the team. The art style example is an interesting one. We changed art directors. The art director on Dragon Age 2 is the same guy who was the art director on Jade Empire. He worked somewhere else for a while then he came back. He's a fan of our stuff, but he also has his own ideas on how to take it.

There was some commentary that Dragon Age could have been more visually unique. We said, 'Okay! You want visually unique? Here's visually unique.' It's usually a combination of things that drives our decision-making. It's not like we're designed by committee. Nor are we beholden to fan and press feedback. But we really do look at all that stuff.

We like changing it up. We like challenging the players. We're not the kind of group that wants to deliver the same thing over and over. What tends to happen on that is you get two or three iterations and then you're dead. The interest is lost. In some ways it's keeping it fresh and challenging the player.
That's from an interview with BioWare director Greg Zeschuk. Interesting stuff, I always liked the Jade Empire art style and it's interesting that they're trying to move away from it being 'generic' fantasy.

It's funny because I was thinking about Jade Empire yesterday and how despite it being a little clunky at times the combat system in that game really helped to capture a sense of dynamism that might really benefit a Dragon Age Game.
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post #15 of 560
7/15/10 at 11:08am
Thread Starter 
Since BioWare doesn't reveal too much about their development cycles, it's hard to pin down when design decisions get made. I had a commenter post something about Dragon Age outselling Mass Effect 2 by a substantial margin (which I doubt will be true in the long run, but anyway), and that any similarities DAII might share with ME2 were likely decided upon long before last January. This is possible, since BioWare's development cycles tend to run long, but I don't think it's probable at all. At some point in ME2's development process, I'm sure they realized the game - and combat sections in particular - was better suited for consoles, and that there was some cross pollination going on.
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post #16 of 560
7/15/10 at 11:29am
Actually I wouldn't dispute that. Dragon Age was marketed very aggresively and had the PS3 as an extra income generator. However Dragon Age didn't seem to stick with its audience. I know a lot of copies were traded in very quickly, partially because of the 'bait and switch' aspect of the trailers.

Mass Effect 2 was sort of building on the good will and reputation of the first game and seemed to sell well, but not great. I certainly remember it plumetting from the UK Games Chart after a while and not doing too well in Japan.
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post #17 of 560
7/15/10 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
If you go by EA's figures, Dragon Age didn't do that well on consoles. The first month it sold something like 350k for the 360, and didn't even crack the top ten on the PS3. I can't remember how well it did on the PC, but those figures come from an even blacker box than EA. Mass Effect 2 sold 2 million in the first three days.

I don't think we'll get at accurate figure anywhere, though, not that it's really all that important. I loved Dragon Age, but I think part of the "highest selling BioWare game of all time!" banner waving was an attempt to bolster a new IP and generate interest. That they're fundamentally changing the game for consoles seems to support this.
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post #18 of 560
7/23/10 at 1:22pm
So is anyone at ComicCon going to try this out? Apparently there's a playable demo for this and Dead Space 2 down there.
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post #19 of 560
7/23/10 at 1:34pm
According to a recent IGN article, the dialogue options have been drastically streamlined as well. There is a maximum of three responses while in a conversation: "good", "nasty", and "badass". I know its cliché to say this, but at this point I'm really wondering if the people at Bioware know why Dragon Age was so well received. No game out there has the rich story possibilities of Dragon Age. Simplifying the conversations, along with the other changes being made, is going to result in this becoming a generic Mass Effect 2 clone, which I wouldn't mind if that game wasn't so horribly underwhelming and just a poor RPG overall.
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post #20 of 560
7/23/10 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 
I love that Dragon Age is Dragon Age, but I think the story simplification of the sequel is, at least in part, a result of the story complexity of the first game.

When you create an expanding set of branching story outcomes, there's no way to make a sequel that can satisfy these outcomes without either generalizing the main character or shuffling player choice consequences into the background. ME2 isn't a poor RPG by any stretch, but it does illustrate what happens when you take a immensely choice-driven game and try to build a sequel from it.
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post #21 of 560
7/23/10 at 3:40pm
My initial reaction to learning that DA2 would follow a central character, ME style, was less than positive but I've warmed up to the idea. Given the scale of the world explored in the original game and the diversity in its denizens, I think the idea of exploring the world you helped create through the eyes of a stranger living in that world is wonderful-- though I agree that Bioware misses an opportunity if they don't have him encounter your DAO character at some point. (And that the likelihood that you won't is low.)

I haven't played Awakenings yet and I probably ought to pick it up when/if I can afford to. Reading more about the sequel is really getting me itching to find room in my budget to snag it...I want to explore Ferelden again.
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post #22 of 560
7/23/10 at 3:57pm
I think these games will really get interesting when they are able to do it where more of the game is procedurally generated. At that point, it'll really be possible to create a world that can extend the wide variety of choices that users make far down a path that manual development could not.

I hope some company would be able to use their abilities to actually have choices impact the world in a more organic way.
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post #23 of 560
7/24/10 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
So the sequel's a story-within-a-story.

"As you know if you've been paying attention to the game, the sequel's story revolves around a character named Hawke, not the customized, silent Gray Warden protagonist of the first game. While you're still able to customize your appearance and your class, Dragon Age 2 consists of Hawke's story, not just one you're making up.

And here's the catch: Someone else is actually making it up. The main characters of Dragon Age 2 are actually Cassandra and Verik, two people ten years down the line from the first game, that have to save a world on the brink of war not by fighting their own battles, but by finding out just what Hawke's been up to since Dragon Age: Origins. In other words, the game is told in flashback, by a not-always reliable third party. Which means that if Hawke's story is flashier, grittier, or more fanciful than the first game, that's okay -- anything that might be a lie probably is. "We wanted to see what happened if a legend is exaggerated," said Laidlaw during the demonstration."
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post #24 of 560
7/26/10 at 4:33pm
Okay, now that I'm totally on board with. The exaggeration of myth-making and story-telling element is really intriguing.
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post #25 of 560
7/26/10 at 10:11pm
For all the initial criticisms this is sounding almost more ambitious than the original at this stage.
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post #26 of 560
7/27/10 at 5:05pm
I completely agree with you, there. The sequel so far sounds like it's going the extra mile beyond building the world of DAO by making a tall tale out of the legend that you forged in the original. I find that pretty exciting, so at this point I'm very willing to look past my initial concerns. Sounds like they're bringing a lot of new ideas to the table despite relying on some more well-established ones.
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post #27 of 560
7/30/10 at 9:33pm
Good news, everyone! You remember Sten, the big, badass Qunari from the first game? Well it appears that the developers just didn't think Sten and chums were adaquately badass and Ogre-like enough so Qunari as a rule are now all horned, razor-clawed, tattooed (think Darth Maul) superbadasses instead. Apart from a tiny number who are born without horns. Like Sten. And the several dozen other Qunari mercs encountered in Ferelden. Hey, ho.
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post #28 of 560
7/30/10 at 10:25pm
I guess this is going to be like a TOS to TNG Klingon issue then.

Not the worst design in the world, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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post #29 of 560
7/31/10 at 6:36am
Well, Sten was hardly an iconic figure, or even particularly interesting visually.
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post #30 of 560
7/31/10 at 6:42am
Fuck Sten. Passive aggressive masochist. I hated his guts and made it a point to always tell him so.
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post #31 of 560
7/31/10 at 9:08am
Sten was awesome and far more interesting than most of the other characters. How often do you get party members who, instead of just moaning at you about doing things they don't like ('sup, Morrigan) will actually call you out on your shit and attack you to take over the party? Plus the scenes with the dog and his chats with Oghren and Shale were gold.

"Tell me, is it your plan for us to keep travelling North until it becomes South and we attack the archdemon from behind?"
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post #32 of 560
7/31/10 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Fuck Sten. Passive aggressive masochist. I hated his guts and made it a point to always tell him so.
Doesn't that actually increase your approval rating with him?
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post #33 of 560
8/1/10 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
Doesn't that actually increase your approval rating with him?
Yeah doesn't his respect meter exist for insults and cookies essentially?
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post #34 of 560
8/1/10 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Yeah doesn't his respect meter exist for insults and cookies essentially?
And paintings.
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post #35 of 560
8/1/10 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
I guess this is going to be like a TOS to TNG Klingon issue then.

Not the worst design in the world, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Eh. The Ogres were the evil incarnations of the Qunari, so this sort of bridges that gap. Probably should have just made the Qunari look like this from the beginning. Probably would have made Sten a more interesting character to have in the party.
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post #36 of 560
8/2/10 at 12:05am
I'm going to go with the whole "Tall tale so we make the Qunari out to be demon like" angle. And I'm sticking to it.
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post #37 of 560
8/2/10 at 12:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel Red View Post
Sten was awesome and far more interesting than most of the other characters. How often do you get party members who, instead of just moaning at you about doing things they don't like ('sup, Morrigan) will actually call you out on your shit and attack you to take over the party? Plus the scenes with the dog and his chats with Oghren and Shale were gold.

"Tell me, is it your plan for us to keep travelling North until it becomes South and we attack the archdemon from behind?"
Morrigan flirting with Sten is hilarious
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post #38 of 560
8/17/10 at 1:33pm
Trailer is up.

http://kotaku.com/5614842/dragon-age...k-pre+rendered
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post #39 of 560
8/17/10 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
A fantasy story about fate and destiny? Now I've seen everything.
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post #40 of 560
8/17/10 at 1:51pm
Wait a while while I put on my Extrapolating From Minute Details Hat Of Jumping To Conclusions +1.

They sure made a point of showing Hawke doing solo both melee and magic combat. A Jack of all trades main character doesn't bode well for them keeping the awesome tactical combat of the first one unharmed. They keep half denying it but if they Dragon Effect this it might become the first Bioware game I won't buy on day one if at all. Just on principle.
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post #41 of 560
8/17/10 at 2:17pm
Well, we should find out what they've done with it come March 8th, 2011 (11th in Europe). Maybe because DAO was released last fall and Awakenings was released in the spring this year (not to mention the rest of the DLC) this seems rather early for a new Dragon Age game to come out. Hopefully it isn't being rushed out the door for whatever reason.
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post #42 of 560
8/17/10 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry Badger View Post
Yay Dragon Effect!

Ahem.

The Qunari defnitely looks more...monsterlike. Though I have to admit, it was kind of hilarious to have everyone in Dragon Age: Origins freak out about the tall (darker skinned, not quite) black dude that talked about killing everything.
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post #43 of 560
8/17/10 at 11:04pm
I loved Dragon Age and I loved both Mass Effects. They can mash em up however they want as far as I'm concerned.
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post #44 of 560
8/17/10 at 11:08pm
Even MassAge, Schwartz? Even then?

I wonder if that's supposed to be the new arcane warrior or something. In the trailer for Dragon Age, you see the guy use melee combat and some type of magic.
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post #45 of 560
8/18/10 at 3:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
I loved Dragon Age and I loved both Mass Effects. They can mash em up however they want as far as I'm concerned.
I loved all of them too but I also want to have some challenge and variety in the fights. Mass Effect 2 even on the harder levels was very fun but almost too streamlined. I loved pausing a before a fight in Dragon Age, making up a strategy and watching this actually affecting the way the battle played out. There are far too few games like that outside of the strategy genre right now.
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post #46 of 560
8/20/10 at 12:55pm
Some new previews by folks who have played a little bit of the game:

From Gamepro.

From IGN.

Sounds like while you can play it a little more hack 'n' slashy, you still have full use of your tactical commands, even in the console version. I certainly won't mind my party members deciding on their own that they need to drink a health potion without me having to program them to do so.

And the dialogue wheel sounds great.
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post #47 of 560
10/15/10 at 12:18pm
According to IGN, if you pre-order the regular version of Dragon Age II before January 11th, you'll automatically be upgraded to the Limited Collector's Edition (or "Signature Edition," rather) for free.

I recently pre-ordered the Xbox 360 flavor of this game off Amazon, and am getting it for $40, due to applying various pre-order credits, so basically getting the LCE version for that price is awesome (paid $70 for the previous game). Will this version include a documentary DVD, like most other BioWare limiteds? Probably, but don't see it mentioned:

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post #48 of 560
10/26/10 at 5:27pm
http://link.brightcove.com/services/...d=648512368001

New trailer, from the official site.

Looks good, shows more gameplay footage and boy does it look pretty. Looks almost as good as Mass Effect 2 and the voice acting seems very strong.
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post #49 of 560
10/26/10 at 5:54pm
Nice trailer, though I'm not sure any of that is actual gameplay.

You know what, though? I'm tired of buying games, watching a string of overpriced DLC get released, then seeing the whole thing go out to retailers as one complete discounted package 10 months later. I think DRAGON AGE II is going to be the first game where I just wait for the eventual Ultimate Edition.
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post #50 of 560
10/27/10 at 4:33am
This isn't gameplay. It's in-engine, but not gameplay. Until I see actual footage of PC gameplay I will not get excited about this. If they turn DA into some sort of clickfest, this will be the first Bioware PC game that I'll only buy in some ridiculous Steam sale and not day one.
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