Film School

Stop this, for a start.

East coast? West coast?

I went to film school in SA, so I can't advise you on schools or admission but I do have one piece of advice. You'd better KNOW you want to be a director. I mean really. 'cos you have no idea how many people go to film school dreaming of writing and directing only to drop out or change subjects once they realise exactly how difficult it is - not only to direct but to actually make a living doing it.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, just giving you a heads up. it's a fucking awesome industry to be in once you've cracked it. Good luck.

Figure out how much you're going to spend on film school, then take that money and make as many movies as you can. Start small and work your way up to a feature. If you insist on going, find a school that emphasises that technical knowledge early and often, that gets you working with equipment on crews and behind the camera as soon as possible.

What you're paying for (and you will, for a long time after you graduate) isn't so much tech knowledge so much as it is networking opportunities, industry connections, and the ability to use equipment free of charge. I really wish more people would emphasize the first part, as I didn't learn anything about screenwriting at NYU that I didn't later teach myself, or already know. For a person with hot-shit academics, the basic knowledge of "how to make a movie" should be easily self-taught. The rest is practice.

OTOH, I did two years at NYU, and I'm still getting some pretty decent mileage out of the fact I went at all, but my biggest professional mentor has been my cinematographer on the first film I directed. We met through Craig's List and she went to SCAD, not anything related to NYU. I cast and crewed the film almost entirely with NYU people, so there's that, though.

I would say either do what Rath said and just go out and start making films. Or take the money and move somewhere that you can start working on films. Really, most of the film school students I deal with don't really know a whole lot about the practical side of production (in fact, I find a lot can't tell me shit about films in general).

This really is a hands on learning business.

What Rath said is dead on right about becoming a director. The only thing that film school will get you is a bit more confidence and some exposure to other people. Other than that, learning on the job is the way to go.

If you are interested in becoming a tech guy or in post then school is about the only way to go. In which case, I'd recommend Vancouver Film School. It produces really good editors and really good technicians.

I apologize for this next bit because it's going to be harsh but some things need to be said for you to have some perspective. (Keep in mind I'm only going from your posts).

You aren't a people person, Policar. You are, at times, arrogant, an intellectual bully, and don't seem strong in the way of social graces. You also assume you know more than you do even when presented with proof that you don't. You also oversell your abilities and your history. You've alienated the one successful filmmaker on this board and annoyed a fair bit of people who work on a regular basis in the business by assuming you know more than we do.

I guess what I'm saying is that if this is your personality in real life then you may have a difficult time in both school or in making your own films. Both are a very collaborative setting with give and take between all the participants. You need to learn to work in a group setting without pissing other people off. You need to figure out if you can do that before you even start down this path.

You're a smart guy. We know that. But you have to be more than smart to make movies. I'm not saying you can't do it or that you shouldn't but that you need to do some serious soul searching before you take step one.

I'm a film major at Temple University, and while I love it, I sometimes feel like I would be better off quitting and just having a go at it on my own. I won't, because I am learning a lot of really useful stuff and meeting and working with a lot of really talented people, but sometimes it feels like I'm just stalling for four years before I really have a go at it once I graduate.

You say you're set on going to school, but jumping into it headfirst isn't the worst idea. The great thing about filmmaking is you don't need a piece of paper that says you can do it. It's also a huge investment and it'd probably be much more worth it use the money to make a movie.

I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on film school, because I really have learned so much and I've had a ton of experience behind the camera and worked with and met lots of great people and I've had a great time, but it's not the only avenue available

So, Policar, why did you ask for advice if you were going to dismiss it outright and show us some of that intellectual arrogance Ryan mentioned? Furthermore, ain't nothin you want to learn that can't be lrearned by making fucking movies.

Erik, I have some more advice from the position of a guy whose career has.stalled if you wnt to hear/ are thinking about your next move. We shoul d also get Stormin in here, as he's probably the most successful director of the CHUD Young Turks.

Policar, if you don't understand why burning bridges with Troy is a bad thing you seriously don't get this industry at all. People who like you are way more important than you can possibly imagine. He's one of the good guys in this industry and if you think HE'S an asshole, wait until you actually run across a real one.

Also, you may never meet him but advice you get from him or Smilin' Jack or Slater or Nick is all advice that's from the trenches. It's vital.

It's also a really good idea not to be a jack ass to people who have already succeeded in an area where you want to excel. Six degrees and all that jazz.

Try this!

But honest to god until you figure out your anti-social aspects none of that is any good to you. Not everyone can be Fincher or Lucas and see their talent rise above their obvious social deficiencies.

THIS. I've recently had a chance to meet a director recently up in Detroit and he was warm and friendly with everyone. Being a dick is not going to help you... Being anti-social is not going to help at all. Just suck it up and get out there and be pleasant and bite your tongue if you have to.

What Ryan wrote is spot on. Unless your dream is to finance all your own films and work with crew-members only once, people being able to say "I like that guy" is a pretty crucial part of the equation.

And the reality is that if you want to work on a second film in the same community you better have at least one person willing to say that you're a good guy. I've seen so many first time directors stay that way because they were assholes on their first movie and no one would work with them again. And that word will spread a long way.

Policar, I'll respond to your points when I'm not at work, but I can honestly tell you that my lack of people skills (which isn't so much the fact that I'm an ass but that I've had to wake up to the fact that even though I'm tired from a long day at work, I need to go be social if I have that opportunity) is what has made making a second film much more challenging than the first.

You may also want to consider whether or not you want a physical degree from a university and where you will go from there. You're going to be getting an educational experience; if you want to learn a lot about blocking and shot choice you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may want to read a couple books and take a class or two instead of committing to going to school. Or, as previously mentioned, just start making films.

Ok, confession time.
I'm 28, i'm working on an entirely different field. And i'm thinking on changing lanes and going to Film School starting next year.
I love film. I want to pick a camera and film stuff. But i'm afraid i don't have a clue what to do with what i filmed. So i thought i'd go to film school for a couple of years and learn the basics...

This thread seems to tell me that it's not necessary. Now i'm worried-

Is this in regards to editing or something larger in scope? Because there are all sorts of certification courses in Avid, FinalCut, etc.

http://www.apple.com/software/pro/training/enduser.html

Not just editing. Everything. Staging, blocking, writing, planning. Everything.

So i'd like to get a general look into every field to give me an idea.

Then you're someone who would do well at school. Film school is about giving you the confidence and the basic skill set to get you working either for other people or on your own stuff. You may find that you're more attracted to the post side of things or that you want to be a 1st AD.

I don't know what kind of film-making is going on in your area, but it's worth it to volunteer to work on local projects from amateur films to music videos, even in a PA or Best Boy capacity. I learned a lot about the actual filmmaking process from my three days as the Key Grip on local rapper Astonish's music video "Can U Hear Me". Didn't get paid, of course, but it was still an interesting experience.

I went to a conference today explaining a bit of the career. And they confirmed that it was basically that. Giving you an entry onto every level of film making and all areas behind the camera. Then it was up to you to decide which one you'd like best and to get better at that.

I'm terribly afraid to do it though. I work a full time job and this would mean EVERY single hour of my life is taken for at least 3 years. Plus it costs a fortune.
But hey, the desire is there.

I think it's cool that you're even considering it Tati. I don't want to give you shallow advice to blindly go for it, but if you really are that interested I hope you figure out an arrangement that will let you do so.

I briefly toyed with going to film school, but the money wasn't there and frankly I suck at writing. So I really would have been fucked on the academic side of things regarding papers. I decided to go to school for audio engineering instead, so there is somewhat a chance for me to get into post-production sound etc...

I'd definitely love to hear any and all advise that you or anyone else has to offer. I really have no clue what I'll do once I'm out of school. I mean, I have some ideas (move to Hollywood, or trying making some movies here, or just looking around for jobs), but I'm also only a Junior. I still have a little time to work it out.

I'm mostly interested in screenwriting. I think that's where my real talent lies. I'm much happier with the screenplays I have written than any of my movies. But I still want to direct. It's all stuff I need to figure out before I try to go out into the world and make a living.

Personally, this is just me, there's nothing you can learn in film school that you can't learn from about four books, and about a week on the set of a short film shoot in your city. The film school experience is fun, but if you have the drive to study camera systems and cinematography yourself, you don't need to spend the money. I've found that being Jim Cameron and having a natural curiosity has taught me more than any teacher in film school.

I only say this because it's sometimes ABSURDLY expensive to go to film school for what is essentially the basics that we on this board could all help teach within a week.

As someone who went to film school, allow me to parrot this statement. If you can get into USC or NYU, and work your ass off, it might be worth it for the connections you'll make but overall it'd be better to just watch five hundred movies and some film books and go out and make your own movie with the money you saved by not going to film school.

Buy The Bare Bones Camera Course for Film and Video by Tom Schroeppel and whatever consumer grade camera and go to town making your own little youtube efforts. Check out craigslist to see if there are any independent film shoots in your area and donate your time to help them out. There are so many people who just want to say they make movies and aren't actually committed so if you show up, willing to work and learn, there will always be one or two veterans (at least) that will help you out. Ask questions. Let them know about your dreams. They'll love the passion if they're not total dicks and even if they are, you can learn a lot by the way a terrible film set is run.

Don't go to film school unless money is absolutely not an issue and you have plenty of free time and just concentrate on the craft.

Sorry if I am coming off like a dick to Policar, film school isn't useless, you can get a lot out of it if you work hard. I just think if the drive is there, it is better served by not going a hundred grand in debt for most people.

Amazon Link for Bare Bones: http://www.amazon.com/Bare-Bones-Cam...9191343&sr=8-1

For me, film school wasn't as much about the learning as it was about getting together a portfolio of work. Now some people will have the initiative to pool their resources, organise a crew and shoot a bunch of short films, but not all. Film school kind of forced me to get myself in shape, write a lot and put together projects even when I was feeling uninspired. As a result, I came out of there with some pretty cool work and connections that helped me get a few things made and enter the industry a bit higher than the lowest rung.

I liked film school as an overall experience but the biggest thing to be mindful of is making sure that technical experience is a big part of the curriculum. At the school I went to the film department began as an offshoot of the English department so it didn't quite have the funding yet to hold a lot of technical courses or hire more than one teacher at a time to teach simple classes like Intro to Film making so if you missed out on something for a semester you were basically fucked, it's why I never had a chance to take a screenwriting class. Most of our classes were spent just watching and talking about movies. Which don't get me wrong is the best possible way to spend time in a classroom I just wish I got more hands on experience while I was there. The bummer of it was I left school without the confidence to actually go out there and try to make something for myself and now I'm about as far away from working in the industry as humanly possible.

Here's the thing about the connections. It's great to meet people in school, and some of them will go on to help you in the future, and it's great to have a handful of people in the same boat looking for work and looking out for each other etc.

But when it comes down to it, knowing people who are lifers working on shows is who you need to know, not people who are in your own position. You'll go to a show, maybe PA for them. You'll be a nice dude who's likable, keeps his head out of trouble, isn't annoying, volunteers for the higher intensity jobs.

Then maybe next year when the ALM's have moved on to different shows or positions, they'll remember you, and they'll be calling you before they call anybody else.

My point is that if you want to work in the industry, or if you want to make your own stuff it's more valuable to know the working professionals who actively make shows. THEY are the people that matter when it comes to working, and the people that need to like you in order to get work and get your shorts made when favors need to be called in.

In a way it's kind of charming that even after the complete failure of his ill-considered plan to move to LA in the hopes of 'making it', Policar still has faith in the idea that his film geek wish-fulfillment fantasy career will one day just fall into his lap, despite not showing almost any of the qualities that would suggest a future A-list director or even much of an interest in the nuts and bolts of filmmaking or storytelling at all. In another, more accurate way, it's retarded.

Well, being 22 and working at a Walmart, I've thought about going to film school in the past. Now I've more or less set my sights on working up the scratch for a Canon HV40 and shooting stuff with some friends to learn from there.

I have a four year film school degree, and I can honestly say I learned more from the camcorder shorts I used to make with my friends in high school than I did at the college. Buy the cheapest camera you can find and experiment. Use friends or local theater actors. You'll learn what works (and what doesn't work) and whether you have a passion for it very quickly. You can get yourself started with a cheap camera and a basic editing system (like Final Cut Express) for under $1000. If you find you have a love for it, then you can consider investing more money into it as a future career.

Anybody in the Northeast might want to check The Film Workshops in Maine:
www.theworkshops.com . They have intensive 1-4 week courses that can give you a good overview without committing 4 years. I can't speak from personal experience, but I have talked with a couple people who have raved about them.

Film school won't help any of the problems you just listed.

I really think you need to invest in therapy rather than film school. A director needs to be a leader and able to get people to do what needs to be done. Being a pain in the ass on set won't change just cause you go to film school.

then don't apply in a half-assed manner.

So, if i were to get a camera to start fucking around and shooting shorts with my friends. What would you guys recommend? As an entry level camera but that can help me start grasping decent concepts of quality and lighting?

Also, i'm poor.

But a good film school will introduce you to more than your classmates through guest lecturers and practicums. If it doesn't, get the hell out. In my two years I met so many contacts in the industry if I didn't get a job it was my fault.

Apparently the 7D is pretty neat. Any consumer level HD camera will get you there. Remember while you're playing around that image fidelity does not magically create image quality. If you want depth and pop, the illusive three dimensional image, you need an eye for framing, a knowledge of lighting, a knowledge of the functionality of your camera, and a knowledge of post color correction. I could shoot on a flimsy Best Buy HD camera and get you wonderful results you would be happy with.

I see you've said that this is getting redundant and insulting, and I don't mean for this to hurt, so I'll try and soften it up a bit, but give up. If this is how you carry yourself, you've already failed. It's important to take a good hard look at yourself and why you're trying to do what you do. Do you think more about how cool it would be to be a famous director beloved by every one who has millions of dollars, or do you think more about the craft? If you want to go out and make Jaws, you're going to have to sacrifice everything to get there.

Some folks in this industry would probably be happier being a fire fighter and doing something meaningful with their lives, they just aren't being honest with themselves.

You seem to be pretty knowledgeable and well on your way, so if it's what you want I wish you the best of luck.

I met Jason Rietman who pitched us all this little film he was about to make that was written by some stripper. It sounded lame. He was a douche bag.

You came in asking for advice and people gave it to you. Yes, some of it was blunt but it was given in the spirit of helping you out. Then you were kind of a jackass about it. Then you decide to just outright claim that there's no good books out there on directing yet I know VFS, Ryerson, and the Canadian Film Center all use Shot Making 101 as their intro book.

You continue to rave on about what an ass you are on set yet you won't listen to people form the industry telling you that THAT will likely be a bigger issue for you rather than any lack of skills you may have.

This is the exact sort of shit people have dealt with from you from the moment you signed on to the boards; arrogance combined with a shrewd ability to piss off people who actually want to engage you in a conversation. I have no idea if you get off on this sort of shit or you're just an idiot but I'm done dealing with you. I've tried to be nice and helpful, I've tried to be blunt and helpful and now I'm just going to do what I should've done in the first place, pretend you don't exist.

There's no way a film like that would do well. Could you imagine an ex-stripper winning an Academy Award? God, what a larf that would be.

Though, I've heard the douchebag thing about Reitman before.

Which is why your current classmates are only a small part of the connections you make in film school... nearly all grad schools have alumni support networks that can get you plugged in fairly well to continue the cycle.

My wife is getting her MFA in Film Production right now, and an MFA (something that not a lot of film schools offer) was very important to her because if the whole industry thing doesn't work out, she can pursue a career in academia. She has lots of educational experience fyi. I think an MFA is a great idea because of this.

Film school is tough because it forces you to think about a lot of different things: creative, technical, financial/budget, people, etc etc. But getting your personal and people issues worked out is fairly essential, as people have said here. People skills are a really invaluable trait to have in this profession.

Don't a lot of Cinderella stories i/r/t film directors start when the right person sees an impressive short film made by a young, hungry director?

Also: read Jane Hamsher's Killer Instinct, pay particular attention to the passages having to do with Rand Vossler, and don't be that guy.