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Film School - Page 3

post #101 of 142
11/22/10 at 12:40pm
"Because what happens with sound, especially in lower budget film, its money tends to get used up in the shooting and then there is nothing left in post. It is something I have done ever since…there is a saying “without sound there is no light” and it is true…everybody goes by the look of the film. Films they can look great, look average, or look terrible ...but if the sound is terrible, forget it. If you cannot hear what they are saying, forget it… it is such an expressive tool and it is invisible. The human eye is so quick that you cannot surprise anyone visually, it is very very difficult. But you can surprise them with sound constantly."

"The first movie we made, when we made Shallow Grave, we had this discussion, because we had a million pounds and we were all just working out how to spend it. I said to them, we talked about, why was it, when were looking at movies in Britain, the British movies looked shit, and the American movies looked great, even if they weren’t great movies, they looked great. Why is it? And it was sound. American movies know you spend money on sound. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t spend money on it. We ring-fenced money for Shallow Grave, proper money. Because we ran out of money, of course, for everything else. But we didn’t spend the sound money. And that was one of the reasons the film was a success and looked like it supposedly revitalized the British film industry. It’s only because we spent a lot of money on sound! [laughs] We dealt with it properly rather than threw it away, y’know."

-Danny Boyle
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post #102 of 142
11/22/10 at 1:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
Phil's being nice Policar. I'm not. That's warning number one for editing posts.
So, I ask a legitimate question totally pertinent to the thread's title and I get an "official warning for editing" (oooh! so much worse than those unofficial warnings) for edits I made months ago--and before I was asked not to make them? Since when was editing posts against site rules? It's not like I've continued since I was asked to stop.

And what does a Danny Boyle quote about sound design have to do with film school? Or are you just looking for an excuse to butt in? If you want to give me some feedback on my application, that would be much appreciated; if you want to continue to clutter up this thread, well, that would be mighty hypocritical.
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post #103 of 142
11/22/10 at 1:56pm
If you don't see how important that quote is, for students, or even professional film makers, I'd tear up your application.

Goon.
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post #104 of 142
11/22/10 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
So, I ask a legitimate question totally pertinent to the thread's title and I get an "official warning for editing" (oooh! so much worse than those unofficial warnings) for edits I made months ago--
Your last "Nm" edit was three days ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
Nm.
Just settle down. Urine a bit of a tizzy.
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post #105 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Your last "Nm" edit was three days ago.
Which was before you asked me to stop editing (as I since have).

Quote:
Originally Posted by themykra View Post
or even professional film makers
Thanks for clearing things up! I didn't realize sound was important to "professional film makers." With insights like yours available free online, I don't even know why I'm applying for an MFA.
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post #106 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
if you want to continue to clutter up this thread, well, that would be mighty hypocritical.
Seeing as how it was initially a potentially promising thread that got chopped into an illegible shitshow, something something glass houses.
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post #107 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
Which was before you asked me to stop editing (as I since have).

Thanks for clearing things up! I didn't realize sound was important to "professional film makers." With insights like yours available free online, I don't even know why I'm applying for an MFA.
"Mommy, why did the angry man poop on the olive branch?"
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post #108 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:23pm
Based on stories I've heard, you'd be surprised by how often 'professional' filmmakers underestimate the importance of sound and just how much time, skill, and effort has to go into a good mix.

I mean, it's right there in Danny Boyle's quote.

Don't knock it just because it might sound a little obvious or trite. A lesson like that is worth hearing again and again.
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post #109 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
Based on stories I've heard, you'd be surprised by how often 'professional' filmmakers underestimate the importance of sound and just how much time, skill, and effort has to go into a good mix.

I mean, it's right there in Danny Boyle's quote.

Don't knock it just because it might sound a little obvious or trite. A lesson like that is worth hearing again and again.
What he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
Which was before you asked me to stop editing (as I since have).
Thanks for clearing things up! I didn't realize sound was important to "professional film makers." With insights like yours available free online, I don't even know why I'm applying for an MFA.
You seem an incredible arsehole. I really wouldn't bother applying. Take that from someone who works in the industry. Nobody would ever think of collaborating or hiring you with such a shitty attitude.
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post #110 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:26pm
I'm gonna take a pass on reading your paper, Policar. Best of luck.
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post #111 of 142
11/22/10 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
If I could retroactively "Nm" this entire thread, I would.

I figured it was worth asking for some feedback. I was wrong. My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
I'm gonna take a pass on reading your paper. Best of luck.
No worries, you're not alone. And thanks, I'll need all the luck I can get.
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post #112 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
So, I ask a legitimate question totally pertinent to the thread's title and I get an "official warning for editing" (oooh! so much worse than those unofficial warnings) for edits I made months ago--and before I was asked not to make them? Since when was editing posts against site rules? It's not like I've continued since I was asked to stop.
You're such a fucking child. You ask questions and then you're a complete twat to people who answer the questions.

Editing is not against the rules per se but when you edit posts that are fucking old or you edit them so long after the fact that you're trying to look less like a dick it's against board policy. Diva, an actual usefulposter, got shit for it so you do too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
what does a Danny Boyle quote about sound design have to do with film school? Or are you just looking for an excuse to butt in? If you want to give me some feedback on my application, that would be much appreciated; if you want to continue to clutter up this thread, well, that would be mighty hypocritical.
If you can't understand why one flows from the other then you are truly fucking hopeless.
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post #113 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:30pm
Policar seems to have the overinflated sense of himself and adolescent level of sarcasm that will serve him well while burning every bridge in this town.
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post #114 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
If you want to give me some feedback on my application, that would be much appreciated; if you want to continue to clutter up this thread, well, that would be mighty hypocritical.
Also, feel free to look up hypocritical in the dictionary.
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post #115 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:46pm
Policar, what exactly do you want to do in the industry? Seriously. Because that could be very important when deciding how to interact with people. I have no idea how you are with people in real life, but on here, you're being a prick. If you continue to do that, you wont get anywhere. The whole business is about working with other people. You can be a prick at the top, when you're a nuts, rich, sonovabitch, but don't when you're on the way up. Really, if you are serious, change the attitude. I can't believe you're still being like this, you've had this attitude since this thread was started.
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post #116 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:50pm
Thread Starter 
If you'd be willing to read and give me some feedback on my statement and visual sample, it explains what I want to do in the industry. I'd gladly start as a PA or some sort of assistant in a post house, but I figure if I go to school it will give me a leg up. I'd also like to learn a craft I can take pride in and become a valuable part of the collaborative process. The problem being schools and potential employers have reacted to my applications in the past kind of like how people are reacting in this thread...

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just overzealous w/r/t keeping it real.
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post #117 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:51pm
A simple job description would be easier to start with.
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post #118 of 142
11/22/10 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
I'd like to work on set, I guess. Everyone wants to direct or be a dp some day, but I'd just like to get on set for now. Or work in a post house. Anything's a start. I feel like there's a lot of hostility in this thread (I probably deserve some of it) so PM me if you have any advice to offer as I'd rather avoid further comments from the peanut gallery.
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post #119 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
I'd like to work on set, I guess. Everyone wants to direct or be a dp some day, but I'd just like to get on set for now. Or work in a post house. Anything's a start. I feel like there's a lot of hostility in this thread (I probably deserve some of it) so PM me if you have any advice to offer as I'd rather avoid further comments from the peanut gallery.
But by my count 85% of the "peanut gallery" you're dismissing actually work in the industry in one fashion or another. Urine corrigable.
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post #120 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, no one here has offered to look at my submission materials since I re-upped this thread. I'm going to look elsewhere, I think.
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post #121 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:12pm
Why would anyone want to take their time to look at your materials and provide you with feedback when your post history here proves that such feedback will be dismissed snidely and their time will have been wasted?
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post #122 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
If you'd be willing to read and give me some feedback on my statement and visual sample, it explains what I want to do in the industry. I'd gladly start as a PA or some sort of assistant in a post house, but I figure if I go to school it will give me a leg up. I'd also like to learn a craft I can take pride in and become a valuable part of the collaborative process. The problem being schools and potential employers have reacted to my applications in the past kind of like how people are reacting in this thread...

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just overzealous w/r/t keeping it real.
This is such a poor fucking excuse. Keeping it real has nothing to do with being a complete cunt, it has everything to do with being honest in a respectful way. You live such a sheltered life that you have no fucking clue what real is.

I looked at the one project you worked on. I was even willing to help with sound on it but it fell through. Then suddenly you start becoming an unbearable prick to everyone who tries to help you in this thread and in others. So, I ask why the fuck should anyone try to help you if all your going to do is be a snide douchebag or a passive aggressive twat?
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post #123 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:28pm
Policar, I'd be willing to look at your stuff and give you advice. I'm going to assume you're just really bad at putting yourself across. But you need to try and think more about the tone of some of your posts.
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post #124 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
This is such a poor fucking excuse.
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be an ass. Clearly I'm coming off as one.

In the past (prior to this thread, at least) you've been nothing but extraordinarily nice to me, even when I didn't always deserve it, and generous with your time and knowledge. In retrospect, I was tremendously unfair to you earlier in this thread, though not intentionally. I think your last few posts are unfairly vindictive given that I set out to make amends this time, but given how I've acted in the past, I have no fair basis on which to judge and don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry I was dismissive and self-centered. I was just looking for honest feedback this time, having re-examined and taken to heart the response I got earlier in this thread, but then I got defensive (e.g. "kept it real").

I'll seek advice elsewhere. You have my honest apology.
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post #125 of 142
11/22/10 at 4:39pm
I did say I was willing to help. But okay.
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post #126 of 142
11/22/10 at 5:46pm
Policar, here's my last piece of advice to you: Find a way to make a movie. An actual movie. You are not untalented. But being the guy in the chair is its own learning experience, and teaches you the value of collaboration, of people around you, of what it means to not only work on -- but run -- a set. I spent years where you were, consumed by a desire to make movies but wanting to make movies "on my own terms" and about things that were way outside any reasonable budget. And while my life has taken a different direction since I last directed, it's something I plan to return to.

Remember, Welles made Citizen Kane at 25, but struggled to make movies for the rest of his life. Rodriguez, Spielberg...those guys are outliers. So I'll just say that Altman worked in TV for years, and didn't direct MASH until he was 45.
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post #127 of 142
11/22/10 at 6:28pm
ITT:

Policar Chewers

Quit coming back people.
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post #128 of 142
11/22/10 at 6:32pm
I'll say this again, skip film school. I said it earlier in the thread. Really, you want to work on set, skip school. No one cares on set. Post is a different beast. But yeah, if I could do it again, I would have literally skipped school and gone to L.A. and started working on set. I would be a 1st AD by now, if not working on my own projects.

I would do you know good to look at materials you want to submit for a graduate program. I dropped out of grad school, and to me its pretty much a waste. I have worked with people who barely made high school yet they are department heads and directors.

As for relationships, I do this everyday. I work sometimes with people I despise, but you know what, they call me back for projects because I do my job and I swallow my ill will. Maybe its maturity or just the fact I have a family to provide for, but it doesn't matter if I like the people around me; I bust my ass and do the best job I can. And really, the only thing which matters on a set is getting the film made.

And Rath speaks the truth. Go out and make a movie. Work on a movie. That's how you learn how to collaborate and get things done.

But being a dick to people doesn't work. Being passive aggressive doesn't work. This is a small business and if you want to find out about people all you have to do is see where they have crossed with a friend. So you do the best you can and you be as polite and nice as any person out there.
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post #129 of 142
11/22/10 at 7:12pm
You wanna see how fast a reputation can get ruined? Witness a PA fucking something up and not taking responsibility. Or watch them say "No" to a request from a superior. Or if someone finds out they've been talking out of school. I've witnessed epic blackballing that happened in days.

So, once again, get your personal shit sorted out long before you step foot on set.
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post #130 of 142
11/23/10 at 1:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey Moore View Post
I'll say this again, skip film school. I said it earlier in the thread. Really, you want to work on set, skip school. No one cares on set. Post is a different beast. But yeah, if I could do it again, I would have literally skipped school and gone to L.A. and started working on set. I would be a 1st AD by now, if not working on my own projects.

I would do you know good to look at materials you want to submit for a graduate program. I dropped out of grad school, and to me its pretty much a waste. I have worked with people who barely made high school yet they are department heads and directors.

As for relationships, I do this everyday. I work sometimes with people I despise, but you know what, they call me back for projects because I do my job and I swallow my ill will. Maybe its maturity or just the fact I have a family to provide for, but it doesn't matter if I like the people around me; I bust my ass and do the best job I can. And really, the only thing which matters on a set is getting the film made.

And Rath speaks the truth. Go out and make a movie. Work on a movie. That's how you learn how to collaborate and get things done.

But being a dick to people doesn't work. Being passive aggressive doesn't work. This is a small business and if you want to find out about people all you have to do is see where they have crossed with a friend. So you do the best you can and you be as polite and nice as any person out there.
This. Really, this. It's what I did and I'm doing pretty well for myself. If you want it. Do it.
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post #131 of 142
11/23/10 at 11:40am
But not everyone's goal is to be an on-set PA and trudgingly make your way up.

Anyways, this thread is retarded.
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post #132 of 142
11/23/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C.B. View Post
But not everyone's goal is to be an on-set PA and trudgingly make your way up.
No, it's not and that's why there's film school. If you want to work post you'd damn well better have education on your side. No one wants to train you from the ground up.

But if you want to work on-set in any department other than camera, you don't need school.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C.B. View Post
Anyways, this thread is retarded.
Really? Thanks for you opinion. I mean, perish the thought that people who actually work in the industry could share their experiences with those who want to. You're right! What the fuck were we thinking?
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post #133 of 142
11/23/10 at 12:06pm
Holy shit, deep breaths. I meant Policar has turned this thread retarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
No, it's not and that's why there's film school. If you want to work post you'd damn well better have education on your side. No one wants to train you from the ground up.

But if you want to work on-set in any department other than camera, you don't need school.
Agreed.
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post #134 of 142
11/23/10 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C.B. View Post
Holy shit, deep breaths. I meant Policar has turned this thread retarded.
Sorry. My entry in to the film industry was kinda shitty so I like to help where I can with new people. But every once in a while there's a crop of new people to the industry in my area who are so fucking clueless it hurts and no amount of advice helps them. We're currently going through that phase right now and it's frustrating me to no end.

True story: I was helping out a buddy doing on-set mixing. We have to wait for all the departments to be done what they need to be done before we set our gear. It took grip/electrics an hour and a half to re-set the lights because their new trainee was an idiot who didn't know the difference between a C-Stand and a C-47. It took us three minutes to set our gear during which time this idiot yells "Waiting on sound!".
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post #135 of 142
11/23/10 at 12:37pm
It's cool. I think film school and the pros and cons of them (and the subject in general) is a pretty ripe subject.

That sounds horrible. Some people are just not wired to be on a set.
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post #136 of 142
11/23/10 at 4:01pm
Thread Starter 
I've read and considered everyone's advice. Chances are I won't get in anywhere, but I've already started the applications so I'm still applying. I've been working for about four years (on and off) and continue to work on sets, but it's going nowhere, largely because of where I live, a lack of contacts, and a recent huge string of projects falling through. I'm not in a position where I can support myself on-set, but I also can't keep quitting my day jobs every time I find a new project. Plus my day jobs have been minimum-wage bullshit since it's all I can find with my current degree and it's getting harder to find them now that I have a history of quitting every time a worthwhile feature comes along (which, this year, has been like not at all).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan S~ View Post
It took grip/electrics an hour and a half to re-set the lights because their new trainee was an idiot who didn't know the difference between a C-Stand and a C-47.
That sounds irritating, but I'm not that guy. Rail on me for being obstinate if you want, but I know my gear ridiculously comprehensively (within the department I want to work in; I'm not good with sound/props/whatever) and, when I don't know something, I'll ask. I bought and read every book on how to be a grip and gaffer and memorized every technical detail I could in order to prepare for being a PA. But the opportunities are too slow here and I'm not organized enough to put better ones together. I'm not part of a union so I usually end up having the most experience of anyone on local sets, and I don't have very much experience at all. I want to eventually work, career-wise, in a camera department and then support myself on the side in vfx if necessary; if there are two areas for which a technical training is requisite, it's camera and post. I need more technical training and a network of contacts in a new city, I figure applying for an MFA couldn't hurt. I'm applying to public schools mostly to minimize the insane cost; I recognize debt is an issue but everyone finds his or her own path and time spent going nowhere is a bigger waste than even rather substantial amounts of money.
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post #137 of 142
11/23/10 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policar View Post
I've read and considered everyone's advice. Chances are I won't get in anywhere, but I've already started the applications so I'm still applying. I've been working for about four years (on and off) and continue to work on sets, but it's going nowhere, largely because of where I live, a lack of contacts, and a recent huge string of projects falling through. I'm not in a position where I can support myself on-set, but I also can't keep quitting my day jobs every time I find a new project. Plus my day jobs have been minimum-wage bullshit since it's all I can find with my current degree and it's getting harder to find them now that I have a history of quitting every time a worthwhile feature comes along (which, this year, has been like not at all).



That sounds irritating, but I'm not that guy. Rail on me for being obstinate if you want, but I know my gear ridiculously comprehensively (within the department I want to work in; I'm not good with sound/props/whatever) and, when I don't know something, I'll ask. I bought and read every book on how to be a grip and gaffer and memorized every technical detail I could in order to prepare for being a PA. But the opportunities are too slow here and I'm not organized enough to put better ones together. I'm not part of a union so I usually end up having the most experience of anyone on local sets, and I don't have very much experience at all. I want to eventually work, career-wise, in a camera department and then support myself on the side in vfx if necessary; if there are two areas for which a technical training is requisite, it's camera and post. I need more technical training and a network of contacts in a new city, I figure applying for an MFA couldn't hurt. I'm applying to public schools mostly to minimize the insane cost; I recognize debt is an issue but everyone finds his or her own path and time spent going nowhere is a bigger waste than even rather substantial amounts of money.
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

Good luck man!
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post #138 of 142
12/7/10 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I'll probably need it. Lots of qualified people applying, and most of them are nicer/better people than I am.

I've finished my five-minute visual sample, btw, if anyone would be willing to give me some feedback on it. Send me a PM or whatever.

Edit: Okay, I got some feedback on my visual sample and apparently it's awful. It looks like all the advice I've gotten re: working on set is not only good in general, but that working on set extensively is arguably a prerequisite to me even getting into a film school. So I need to go somewhere where I can work on set full time and then apply again.

So um, thank you for the good advice.
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post #139 of 142
12/9/10 at 3:42pm
Or, you know, make a fucking movie. Seriously, if you're as talented and as knowledgeable as you say you are, and I know you're the former AND the latter, why not simply put those skills to work?
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post #140 of 142
1/27/11 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 

Yeah, so I got rejected.


I'm not really as knowledgeable as I pretend to be, but in all seriousness I like your advice and I'm going to take it.   I don't need anyone else's permission to make my own terrible no-budget short film.


Edited by Policar - 1/27/11 at 4:00pm
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post #141 of 142
1/27/11 at 6:34pm

Sorry to hear that, Policar.

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post #142 of 142
1/28/11 at 3:58pm
Thread Starter 

 

Thanks, I really appreciate the condolences.  I've been even mopier than usual all day.

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