Film School - Page 2

Study George Clooney, Josh Holloway. Mimic. Even if you're a naturally selfish dick wad you NEED to be a charming and smooth, likable mother fucker. It's the most important thing for your survival.

What's funny is that, emotionally at least, Policar and I seem to be in the same place right now, that is, frustrated with the current state of their careers, or lack thereof. If anything, this thread has provided a nice little boot in my ass to remind me that I can sit and whine all I want, but ultimately, I'm the only one stopping myself from not working. And that my hunger to do anything film-related right now is just a commercial HD camera away. I live in fucking New York. There's no excuse.

Speaking of which:

Any particular commercial-level HD models you'd recommend, Freeman? The special lady friend and I were looking at camcorders last night for a pseudo-mockumentary (it's Bob Roberts meets The Runaways meets Streets of Fire), so that's kind of fortuitous.

Also, I know jack about color correction (and between the aformentioned project and the noir I'd like to write, I'm going to need to learn, and soon), so any recommendations about that particular arena would be appreciated.

I came into this thread ready to give advice -- Wacker, there's more coming your way -- and learned a lot. Thanks, guys.

The 7D is a great way to go, unless you can bump up to the 5D (they're not the only options, but they're where it's at right now) - but split your budget between that and a decent lens. Also, budget for sound.

budgetforsoundbudgetforsoundbudgetforsoundbudgetfo rsound

Yeah, all of that sounds like something for someone who knows something about what he's doing. I'm talking about an entry level digital camera to shoot quick and decent image.

at around a 500$ budget?

Yeah, but Renn went to SCAD, I'll listen to him just a bit on cameras.

Policar's not wrong. There are advantages and disadvantages to that camera for a beginner, and though I would argue that it's not quite as dire as all that, Tati's budget makes it kind of moot.

Frankly I couldn't name you off a camcorder in that price range, but a little google-style research and you'll probably be able to settle on one. If I were you, I'd make every effort to scrounge up some money to get a microphone set-up, something like this, along with it.

You're going to be very disappointed when you work hard to make nice-looking, thought out short that sounds like amateur shit.

Oh I know Renn. :-) I've used the 7D and I've enjoyed it. But I'm not looking to direct. So I wanted to throw in my 1 cent. :-) I would go far enough to say that while a good camera is very important. That's not the thing that's going to make or break ya. It's who's behind the camera that makes all the difference. Unless you're using a viewfinder..

I'm now shocked that you want to go back to film school. It's not at all a good use of your time.

This can still be a good thread, guys. Let's keep it going.

What would be a good, inexpensive way to capture audio? I have a Rode Videomic and I was curious if I could just run a cable to my laptop and capture audio that way instead of getting some sort of expensive audio recording equipment. Has anyone tried anything similar and, if so, what would be your choice of software? I'd probably use Audacity.

I would test this out, but I left the mic at my parents' house when I moved out.

Get to where you know something about what you're doing. Movies don't make themselves.

And I've seen so many shitty short films by people who don't seem to even like cinema. I would expect interesting things from a lot of people here, but having said that - loving movies isn't enough.

Monte Hellman shot his new feature on the 5D.

THIS. Seriously, this. This this this.

Never done it that way, however, if you're miked properly and doing things on the really cheap, it isn't the worst thing to run your sound right into the camera. Good luck with the levels, though.

Running the sound straight to the digital cameras is generally fine, as long as you've got decent inputs and headphones to check the levels. Doing separate synch sound is a pain.

It's worth it if you have the equipment and it's going to sound better. I learned how to sync in Avid in about 5 minutes.

Synching sound can be a pain if you don't slate (either before or tail slate), but with all the neat things Final Cut does nowadays, it's really not THAT difficult. And your sound editor will love you for it. And that way, when you go "Can we bring her audio up? She sounds kinda quiet," you're not suddenly faced with all sorts of ambient whathaveyous popping up all over the place (or at the very least, it will be easier to isolate and take care of them).

Also, Renn, bless you for that digital recorder link. I've been looking for something like that for a while now.

Oh I was under the impression you would never do sync sound without a slate. Well actually we didn't have a slate once and just had someone clap on camera. You could do anything, really: clap, snap your fingers, punch a dwarf, etc

As long as there's a relateable sound with an action on camera, you can sync using just about anything. I think I'll start using the punching a dwarf method, personally.

True, and learning how to sync the sound definitely should only take you about 5 minutes. Actually doing it takes FOREVER. I don't dislike doing it, only the amount of time it takes. My best advice for syncing in Avid is to map the red arrow button. You have to do it manually; I will never understand why it is not already mapped for you.

And yes, you can use anything clapping on screen to sync the sound, although a clapboard is best. If you have someone clap on screen, it is helpful to have them hold their hands together for about one second after they clap as many people will have the tendency to take them away as soon as they can. Going off of someone's mouth is very difficult if you have never done it before and will take a really long time to get the hang of. Look for "P" "B" and "T"s in their speech to help you out. Syncing by eye like that is kind of an acquired skill.

Also, make sure you know what you are doing in regards to audio pulldown when you bring your sound into your editing software. It is exceedingly easy to fuck this up and it will cause some problems later.

Custom mapping the keyboard is definitely worth the effort.
Speaking of Avid, another advantage of school: the student discount. Like 90%. It's ridiculous.

Listen to Renn, people!

You could but I wouldn't. It's a very clunky way of doing it. Just rent some audio equipment. Never cheap out on sound. Also be sure you have an on-set mixer/boom op.

On the other hand, if you're insisting on doing it that way then use Pro Tools. You can pick up an MBox mini for relatively cheap and Pro Tools is the industry standard.

Also, that shotgun is fine for commercial shoots but it's hell on dialogue for film. You can put it on a boom pole to get better results but the Senn ME66 will generally work better.

ETA:
I have one of those to record BGs (ambis for our European friends) and it's fucking brilliant. Never used it to record dia but it has a nice frequency response so why not?

Thank you all for the feedback.

Well at the present I have the Rode Videomic, a boom pole made from a painter's pole, standard def DVcam, some work lights, a couple of gels and limited knowledge of lighting, and a small group of somewhat reliable people (probably) willing to help. I'm trying to start small and can't really spend too much money doing this.

Right now I'm planning on (attempting to) shoot a short within a few weeks (probably 5-7 minutes) with aforementioned people - screw around with lighting, shots, sound, and what not... Basically a whole "figure out what the hell we're doing" kind of day.

In the future though I've heard good things about the Canon EOS Rebel T2i.

In that case, have at her and have a great time! Best learning experience you'll have.

I've never gone to film school, but I'm gonna post what I suggested to Tati personally. If you truly don't know the first thing about making movies, I'd suggest not jumping in headfirst with a wallet-busting fancy camera.

Borrow some cheap DV camera from a friend or someone in the family. And see what you can do with all of those limits. People can tell you over and over about what to do and what to watch out for, but such lessons can resonate so much more if you experience it for yourself.

No fancy lighting, no amazing angles, no sweet lenses, shitty sound... and you'll really appreciate just how much craft and effort goes into a film by trying it for yourself.

By working with limits, you'll know what you want to look for in future filmmaking equipment should you decide to forge ahead with that passion.

And work out a strong, simple, and clear story. That alone can provide a helpful pathway to focus your creativity while you're learning the ropes to filmmaking fundamentals.

EDIT: Definitely listen to the sound guys. People can be much more forgiving of a substandard image than they are with bad sound. Bad sound will make your work unbearable to sit through and takes me straight out of an experience.

^^ pretty much what happens your first month of film school

Just wanted to highlight this. Back in 1996, my last year of Radio-TV-Film at UT, a guy (name lost to the mists of time) came to my small upper-division editing class and, after viewing our class reels, essentially offered us all jobs as entry level assistant editors in LA upon graduation.

For a variety of reasons, both personal and personality driven, I didn't act on this gift. I have nobody but myself to blame for my lack of courage/passion/whatever you want to call it and subsequent lack of an industry career. He may have been bullshitting, but I never even *tried* to follow up. I stayed in Austin, worked exactly one production-related job (making terrible no-budget commercials for cable) and gave up on my dream within three years of graduation. If you go to film school, don't be me.

This is a really lovely thread guys. Really lovely. Kudos. Some fantastic, and more importantly, reasoned advice being handed out.

I want to repeat this point, cause I think it is a great one: film school (the 4 year kind) is only important if you're looking to go to college. To get the college experience. Considering the time/money involved, you will not proportionally learn more about production than you could from a 6-month intensive film program and some grunt work internships. I found film school mostly enlightening in a film studies way (which I eventually changed my major to, from production). But as has already been noted here, and to quote the film classic LAKE PLACID "they conceal information like that in books." Quite true. Though it is nice to have an entire class dedicated to film noir or Hitchock or Disney or etc, if you live close to a university you can always audit a class like that.

I have a lot of opinions regarding people trying to enter "the Biz" but I'll restrain my comments here to personal experience - which is writing. The worst class I had in film school was my first screenwriting class. College is grab-bag, man. The book that changed how I thought about writing was GOOD SCRIPTS, BAD SCRIPTS by Tom Pope. A simple book, but it made me think about structure in a way I hadn't before.

For writers, I would advise anyone (in the US) seriously considering working in the film industry to also seriously consider moving to LA.

As someone already sagely said, the connections you make in film school are not always important. I had an amazing group of friends from film school. After graduation literally half of them moved back home, never even giving it a go. The real connections I made were here in LA, with the people who had decided to make the leap or were already working. There are ways to get started from Ohio, I'm sure. But I'd compare it to trying to meet a new girl if you never go to parties or bars. I sold my first script because my writing partner was working at a Hollywood Video and was chatting with the producer who ended up buying it. I've gotten jobs in the weirdest fucking ways.

It's a scary business, but it is so much fun. Come on out.

Yeah, you'll probably want a little lump of money you can live off of for a couple months while you look for work, etc. Just don't let it become an excuse. I have friends who have been "planning" a movie to LA for almost ten years now. It's like a high dive, at some point you just need to throw yourself off or you'll stand up there forever.

If you're looking to live on a budget I would NOT live in Westwood or WeHo unless you've already got roomies lined up. They are fairly expensive areas (though very nice). Ktown is cheap (though very seedy in most areas). Hollywood is fairly cheap, as are areas further East. The Valley sucks, but it is probably the cheapest places to live in the LA area and Studio City is easily accessible.

This is a really interesting and informative thread, especially from an European perspective. Round here (=North Europe / Scandinavia) going to film school is pretty much a must, especially if you want to be a director or a cinematographer. I guess film industry in Europe is more like theatre or classical music, it's theoretically possible to make it without going to Juilliard or Yale but very-fucking-hard.

The Danish film school (Von Trier's school) is one of the best of its kind in the world. And it's cheap. The only downside: you have to speak and understand Danish. The school in Prague is also excellent, but it costs around 15'000 euros per year. National film school in UK is in the same price range.

Next fall I'm starting my third year at the Helsinki film school. So far it has been everything I could ever hope for. They have some sort of international student -programme but our courses have mostly been in Finnish.

So all you need to do is either get a lot of money or learn a really difficult and exotic language...

You might not be able to afford living here. Also, Bushmill's is like $20/bottle at Ralphs

You absolutely do. I wouldn't head out there with your nose in the air.

Look at Wally Pfister's IMDB page sometime. Or Dean Cundey's.

Good luck, you'll definitely get some folks to take a look, but I'm only posting this so you can't edit the rest of the thread into something unreadable like you did to the entire thread up to now.

I might do this every time you post for a while; heads up.

Just don't go deleting WAVES of posts which renders whole threads nonsensical. It's wasting our time, twice. And the last time someone did that we lost the edit feature for a long time. And they didn't do it nearly as much as you.

If your posts are that bad, spend a couple minutes deciding whether you should be posting it in the first place. Just be cool. Be cool, baby.

Phil's being nice Policar. I'm not. That's warning number one for editing posts.