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Sherlock (BBC) - Page 5

post #201 of 662

Just finished the episode.

"WHAT!?!??!  NOOOO!!!  I WANT MORE!!!"

 

I keep beating this dead horse, but these really should be shown in theaters.

post #202 of 662

I truly loved this episode but I will say the ending took a little away. I mean really what kind of explaination are they going to come up with for Sherlock's death? I mean Watson saw it happen in real time. And as much as I want Moriarty to come back....really they are both back? Don't get me wrong I want to see these two back and dukeing it out again but it seems odd to fake both of their deaths. 

post #203 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post

I truly loved this episode but I will say the ending took a little away. I mean really what kind of explaination are they going to come up with for Sherlock's death? I mean Watson saw it happen in real time. And as much as I want Moriarty to come back....really they are both back? Don't get me wrong I want to see these two back and dukeing it out again but it seems odd to fake both of their deaths. 


Sherlock jumps in the truck as Watson is knocked over. Body that Molly and Shelock prepared is dropped on the pavement.

 

And I don't get the stuff about Moriarty being alive. Not that I'd mind but the original story ended with Holmes fake dead and Morairty dead dead.

 

 

post #204 of 662

We see a body thud on the ground (not from Watson's POV) before the cyclist knocks him over.

post #205 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post


Sherlock jumps in the truck as Watson is knocked over. Body that Molly and Shelock prepared is dropped on the pavement.

 

And I don't get the stuff about Moriarty being alive. Not that I'd mind but the original story ended with Holmes fake dead and Morairty dead dead.

 

 

And no other people witness this? Not even the sniper who the show is really for anyway? 

 

post #206 of 662

Yeah, I'm very curious as to how they'll explain this away.  Just too many variables.

post #207 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Yeah, I'm very curious as to how they'll explain this away.  Just too many variables.

Right because to me this is a really great show that pays close attention to the details. If they pull something like this and don't pay it off in a believable way I think it loses a certain something. I need to know that whenever Sherlock gets in a jam he can't just pull something COMPLETELY impossible (even if it might be improbable) out of his ass. Or else his shit comes across way less clever.

post #208 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post



And no other people witness this? Not even the sniper who the show is really for anyway? 

 


The sniper is kind of busy aiming at Watson. Sniper scopes tend to not leave any peripheral vision. And I don't find it difficult to believe Holmes timed the fall so that no one could see all of it. Staging something like that should be elementary for him, pardon the pun.

 

 

post #209 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post


The sniper is kind of busy aiming at Watson. Sniper scopes tend to not leave any peripheral vision. And I don't find it difficult to believe Holmes timed the fall so that no one could see all of it. Staging something like that should be elementary for him, pardon the pun.

 

 

I don't know man that feels like they are going to have to do alot of stretching. Especially if they decide to bring back Moriarty.
 

 

post #210 of 662

The body is Moriarty, that is very clear when you see it turned over.  Sherlock gives Watson a bit of a clue when he says "It's all a magic trick" so we know he is going to pull some kind of stunt.

 

Two little beats I know are important (but can't work out why) are the cyclist hitting Watson over (to disorientate him?) and Sherlock falling backwards before going off the roof.  Beyond that I have no clue how he did it, but damn it was an awesome episode.

 

 

Also I had great fun proving to my wife that every detective from Batman to her beloved Tony Hunt (wire in the blood series) is based on Sherlock.

 

 

 

post #211 of 662

Obviously the cyclist did something to Watson to muck up his awareness.  He's all blurry and disoriented and I got the implication it was because of more than grief.  Sherlock definately jumped off the roof, they very specifically showed him windmilling on the way down.  I think the obvious plan is Sherlock jumped in the truck, and Molly dumped a body the had painstakingly prepped before hand and dressed in his clothing.  Moriarty is still rotting on the roof.

 

Obvious.

post #212 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post

 

Also I had great fun proving to my wife that every detective from Batman to her beloved Tony Hunt (wire in the blood series) is based on Sherlock.

 

 


Who's in turn based on Poe's Dupin.

 

post #213 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Obviously the cyclist did something to Watson to muck up his awareness. 



I haven't run it back to see, but in a typical Holmes story, the cyclist would turn out to be Holmes in disguise.

 

I was wondering if they'd save the reveal for the promised third series. Assuming it all does come together, it'd be nice if their Sebastian Moran is fleshed out a bit from Doyle's original; they could do worse than lift George MacDonald Fraser's version of the character.

 

I've always dreaded the inevitability of Moriarty's appearance in all things Holmes (he was the original retcon, invented solely for Doyle to be able to quit writing the Holmes stories), but I thought this version was reasonably good-- too often they make him simply a mirror image of the calculating Holmes; here he's supposedly equally brilliant, but in a very different way.

 

The suggestion that Holmes contrived everything himself might have given the viewer just a few moments of uncertainty (rather like the Buffy episode where she's in the asylum) if we hadn't had the preview of the Moriarty/Mycroft encounter last ep (it's highly unlikely that "Richard Brooks" would go THAT far for a paycheck).

 

 

post #214 of 662
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Who's in turn based on Poe's Dupin.

It was the Ape what done it!

post #215 of 662

I bet the cyclist is one of Holmes' homeless kids. And He didn't have to do anything to Watson except hit him, but the addition of the head trauma obviously made it even easier for Holmes.

post #216 of 662

By the way, was Richard Brook or the children's show ever referenced before? I remember the first season they had Watson watching a lot of TV.

post #217 of 662

I dunno.  I feel like it would've been pointed out by an eagle-eyed fan already.

post #218 of 662

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cbs-sherlock-holmes-kevin-falls-282718

 

Quote:

 

CBS has kicked off what is expected to be a busy week by ordering two drama projects to pilot. The first, Elementary, is a modern take on the cases of Sherlock Holmes, with the detective now living in New York City.

 

post #219 of 662

Man, is it too much to hope for a live action remake of that show where Sherlock Holmes was in the future and Watson was a head stuck on a robot body?

post #220 of 662
post #221 of 662

Yes, that was what I was referring to.

post #222 of 662

I recall some discussion about Irene Adler's sexual orientation earlier in this thread.  I'm watching a Q&A of the cast and crew discussing the first episode of season 2, and Gatiss seems to confirm that Adler is indeed gay.  The point being that there is more than mundane romance to the Adler/Holmes connection.  

 

"She's gay... he's not interested in anything apart from brain-work...  but something happens.  And it doesn't have to be anything as... MUNDANE... as a love story.  It's much more interesting than that."

post #223 of 662

Wait, this is what the series is about?

 

 

I'm not sure if this is misleading or not.

post #224 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

"She's gay... he's not interested in anything apart from brain-work...  but something happens.  And it doesn't have to be anything as... MUNDANE... as a love story.  It's much more interesting than that."


They literally want to fuck each other's brains out. Literally literally, not for emphasis.

 

 

post #225 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post

Wait, this is what the series is about?

 

 

I'm not sure if this is misleading or not.


Well, it is playing off of something that the series makes playful reference to.  But it does emphasize it a lot!

 

I also find it interesting that it uses that ink-bleeding graphic style that Guy Ritchie's Sherlock Holmes movie made extensive use of.

 

post #226 of 662

Another thing I loved about the last episode...

 

Moriarty mocking Sherlock for actually thinking that just a few simple lines of code could really be so powerful.

post #227 of 662

Yeah, when that fake code explanation happened my bullshit detector almost shorted.

 

A few lines of code that permit you to enter ANY system and he actually showed them to Holmes in binary by taping his fingers? I didn't even know where to begin with something this preposterous.

post #228 of 662

 

 

Moffat said this to the Sun:

 

Quote:
''There's one clue everyone has missed. It's something Sherlock did that was out of character but which nobody has picked up on.''

 

Fuck you Moffat. Now I'll start obsessing over it. What is it CHUD? What are we missing?

post #229 of 662

Him crying?

 

I don't really know but that episode hydro shat into all of Game of Shadows orifices.

post #230 of 662

I thought about that. But why would it be a clue? Out of character, yes. But a clue to what?

post #231 of 662

Maybe the whole 'few lines of code' thing was meant to be out of character.

post #232 of 662

It's not a tear, but water, something over head?

 

I've no idea. 

post #233 of 662

Crying is a symptom of a drug that causes the heart rate to slow right down, simulating death.

post #234 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Murder View Post

Crying is a symptom of a drug that causes the heart rate to slow right down, simulating death.



Interesting, but not sure how it would apply in this case-- the sense seems to be that the body on the ground isn't Holmes at all, that he effected his escape by sleight of hand, not by somehow surviving that fall to the sidewalk and only pretending to be dead.

 

So much of the climactic stuff in the episode seemed out of character for Holmes, though... I wonder if there is something equally uncharacteristic that happened earlier on, that we're all missing.

 

EDIT: The other thing is, who knows just which theories Moffat has or hasn't read? It's quite possible that someone has, in fact, spotted it. Maybe even here.


Edited by Jeb - 1/19/12 at 10:27am
post #235 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

 

 

Moffat said this to the Sun:

 

 

Fuck you Moffat. Now I'll start obsessing over it. What is it CHUD? What are we missing?


I'd say his apology to Molly, but it seems like everyone picked up on that.

 

I've gotta say: as amazing as this series has been, Moffat is not immune to bullshit retcon fakeouts of the kind that would drive Annie Wilkes into a murderous frenzy. See, for example, the last season of Doctor Who, which teased the Doctor's death and ended up cheating quite a bit. So I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be Moriarty's body or a dummy, despite the fact that we clearly saw Holmes pinwheeling his arms on the way down. I hope that's not the case, but I'm not *quite* as completely sure of Moffat as a writer as I'd like to be.

post #236 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post


They literally want to fuck each other's brains out. Literally literally, not for emphasis.

 

 


It's deliberately ambiguous, but I'm with Gatiss: that's the most boring interpretation of their relationship. Like I said above, the possibility that Holmes is either gay or asexual is a crucial part of interpreting this show. And Irene did flat out say she was gay.

 

post #237 of 662

You misunderstood me. I was agreeing that whatever their "relationship" was, it existed on a purely intellectual level. It involved their brains and their brains only. 

post #238 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by The PranksterView Post
View Post

 

 

 So I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be Moriarty's body or a dummy,

 

 

It is Moriarty's body, on the floor at least.  The sad person that I am I checked it twice.

 

 

Also read an interview with the Moffatt (and acompanying video)  that shows a very nice easter egg he put in Baskervillies.   The Tardis is in the background of the scene with the insane guy standing in a grove - how the hell did i miss that?

post #239 of 662
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

You misunderstood me. I was agreeing that whatever their "relationship" was, it existed on a purely intellectual level. It involved their brains and their brains only. 


Ooooooooooooooh, I get it.

 

post #240 of 662
Hmm. A DOCTOR WHO / SHERLOCK crossover? That would be fun.
post #241 of 662

Well halloa, as Sherlock would say.

 

It appears the internet managed to solve Moffat's 'out of character' comment at least as far as I'm concerned. Here and here.

 

It makes perfect sense now that I think about it.

post #242 of 662

Yup sounds about right. Doesn't explain the body though.

post #243 of 662

Holmes jumping in the truck, playing dead for Watson and faking his death makes a lot of sense once you add Molly (smitten with him and a coroner) and Mycroft (the shady arm of the British government and someone who owes Sherlock a huge favor) to Sherlock's toolbox. Fooling an already shocked and dizzy Watson into misreading his pulse is trivial. Hell, I have done it to my mother who's a nurse.

post #244 of 662

Just finished the last episode of the first season, lots of love all around for most of the reasons that have already been mentioned.

 

But I have an observation/question:  In all three episodes, there seemed to be a recurring motif of police sirens in the background of scenes, and not necessarily ones where they're at a crime scene or near Scotland Yard.  They'll be sitting having a conversation, and there'll be sirens in the background.  It seems far to regular to be coincidence, and I'm wondering if it's deliberate, and if so, what it means.

post #245 of 662

Maybe they just like the lens flare from the flashing lights of the sirens?

post #246 of 662

No, it's just the sound.  It struck me last night watching The Great Game, when they're sitting in the diner and just having a conversation, and the sirens creep in in the background.

post #247 of 662

It's called "London". You're never more than 10 feet away from sirens.

post #248 of 662

I guess that's as good an explanation as any.  There's just a part of me that wants to believe it's some sort of clue or something.

post #249 of 662

Don't really recall it in the other episodes, but in The Great Game, I get the feeling the sirens are being used as a reminder of Moriarty's ongoing scheme, and how it's effecting the wider world.  They're working against the clock, so even when Sherlock or John have a moment of downtime, the cops are still there in the background, dealing with all the extraneous stuff (bomb disposal, etc.)

post #250 of 662
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