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Sherlock (BBC) - Page 2

post #51 of 665
Wow - that was a lot of fun. Benedict Cumberbatch really impressed me with how he went from unlikable and condescending to almost caring (especially since he was such a pointless blank of nothing in Third Star... but so was everyone else in that flick). Martin Freeman as well was great, though I can see some of the randoms in the 'real' police grating after a few eps.

I thought the writing was pin-sharp, though I'm a sucker for the mini-shows of intelligence where a character explains how a suntan, coat dampness or scratches on your mobile reveal you woke up on the left side of the bed this morning.

Some nice visual flair by McGuigan. Glad to see he's directing the 3rd ep as well.

My main problem with it was that the taxt driver reveal (which stumped Holmes) was already done in an episode of another BBC drama - Luthor.
post #52 of 665
The reveal was also the original reveal in A Study in Scarlet.
post #53 of 665
Neato, didn't know that.

I'm not too clue'd* up on Holmes I'm afraid (beyond the Richie flick and maybe The Great Mouse Detective), but after reading the Guardian article about the new series I am getting I might have to pick up a book or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gatiss
Whenever I meet someone who hasn't read them, I always think they have got so much fun to come.
EDIT *unintentional. honest.
post #54 of 665
The BBC is already making noise about more Sherlock for next year. It's just tricky with so much of Moffat's time taken by Who.

Did anyone else get the same "Fuck, yeah!" fist-pumping feeling at the end, just like at the end of Casino Royale?
post #55 of 665
Ok it was an old and often used trick but I still loved the scene where you think Watson is in the same room as Holmes but he is actually across the courtyard in another building.
post #56 of 665
Yeah, and the reveal was done BRILLIANTLY.
post #57 of 665
I've prob spent too long lurking in the Inception post-release thread, but my first thought when they revealed that Martin Freeman was across the courtyard was "just like Mal and Cobb"
post #58 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post
The BBC is already making noise about more Sherlock for next year. It's just tricky with so much of Moffat's time taken by Who.

Did anyone else get the same "Fuck, yeah!" fist-pumping feeling at the end, just like at the end of Casino Royale?
great news.

And yes, i may not have pumped fists, but i wanted to ... how could you not be excited to see such a well done, confident reinvention, and especially at that moment, when they metaphorically come together, relationship solidified... and such a great last shot, and just after Gattis says, "Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson" ... plus the music is a great closer (have gladly had it stuck in my head since sunday).

Hope this weeks is as good.... And I do think there is a bit of room for improvement:

As others have mentioned the mystery wasn't terribly complicated,I scoffed that sherlock didnt check the cabbie... i may have known the story, but i thought that should have been more obvious to him (especially when his passenger has no business there)... And jumps of logic like rachel and the email (on her luggage tag) when seconds before he couldnt appreciate the emotional tie between mother and daughter, seemed a bit crazy, but hey with sherlock holmes there should be a degree of that (im just not sure he needed to call everyone in the room dense for not going there... whereas with her raincoat i agreed they were dumb ... but again, tis holmes)

Anyway, still thoroughly enjoyed it, just wanted to focus on my more critical thoughts in hopes of wisely lowering my own (and possibly others) very high expectations.

And P.s. i agree with whoever said the direction was great, lots of good shots and good editing too... when they first enter and leave baker street (the later was great, after that first scene in 221B, it was like they were heading out into the modern world-- i loved it), the great one shots of the pills well-inserted in certain moments, the fades in and out, the texting (really hope other shows pick this up, doesnt even need to be animated like in the conference room, jsut like with watson and mycroft, a prototypically cell phone-formatted subtitle with narrow indentation appears.... so much better than the ever-present reverse pov shots, or worse, voice-over), the camerawork on the reveal about watson and the buildings at the end, the taxi route scene and visual effects ... it was all very well done imo...
post #59 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brechtsky View Post
plus the music is a great closer (have gladly had it stuck in my head since sunday).
The music for the initial pilot was composed by David Arnold, which has been adapted for these three episodes. He's commented online about the similarities to Hans Zimmer's score for the Downey film, but it's just a coincidence. And Arnold turned his work in sometime very early in 2009.

And yes, the music rocks, getting you all excited to see Holmes and Watson sweep through London solving mysteries. A shame that there's no plans for a CD release.
post #60 of 665
Does anyone know if red-headed league is among the eps?

I was trying to think of what the cabbie meant when referring to moriarty and his sponsorship, and he says, "THEY are so much more than a man" ... maybe he used the league for other stuff, like recruiting the cabbie ... and the cabbie was grey-haired, but appeared to have ginger-ish kids... might be kind of cool if well done.

crazy, long shot, i know... but its definitely one line that certainly still has me wondering.
post #61 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post
The BBC is already making noise about more Sherlock for next year. It's just tricky with so much of Moffat's time taken by Who.

Did anyone else get the same "Fuck, yeah!" fist-pumping feeling at the end, just like at the end of Casino Royale?
You saying that makes me think of the first episode of the Matt Smith Dr Who when at the end he walks through the hologram of all the other Doctors and say "I'm the Doctor!".
Cue me with a huge grin.

Also loved the "WRONG!" texts at the beginning.
post #62 of 665
2nd episode felt a lot more 'traditional' in that it took the usual route of a Holmes TV adaptation and went 'big' and 'pulpy'. I liked the stuff with the Tong and the final thirty minutes were a lot of fun.

It's just kind of apparent that Moffat and Gatiss have a clear vision of what they want from the show, which wasn't shared by this episodes writer Stephen Thopson. From what I've heard Gatiss's episode next week is fantastic and pretty nasty. Gatiss always had a penchant for 'darker' stuff and it'll be interesting to see him working away from the limitations which have sometimes blunted his darker edges.
post #63 of 665
Not as good as the first epp but still a hell of a lot of fun. I was convinced (for some reason) that the book everybody owned would turn out to be a takeaway menu but the A-Z was also cool.
post #64 of 665
It was fun, but nowhere near as enjoyable as the first ep. I hope Gatiss writing as well as a return of McGuigan as director will improve the next one.

Kinda hated the cold-'Sherlock fighting unnamed swordsman' gag, along with Watson's tired 'you've been sat there all day' joke. But I loved the way Sherlock downplayed his deductive skills to the banker (interesting that he doesn't feel the need everyone to be in awe at his intellect)
post #65 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Allen View Post
But I loved the way Sherlock downplayed his deductive skills to the banker (interesting that he doesn't feel the need everyone to be in awe at his intellect)
That's another callback to the books. Holmes hated the idea of being knowable and as such he constantly tried to defy people's expectations. It's why the books make such a big deal of how well trained he is not only as a detective but as a physical presence.
post #66 of 665
i agreed with most of everybodies analysis of episode 2 ... I also wasnt a big fan of the tunnel scene, it seemed to not make sense to me (the bullet ricochet, her running, holmes kicking a garbage can distracts them enough to allow him to begin untying her)

It also felt longer, which is never a good sign.

but i did like their banter, the opening mysteries, the way watson was setup as holmes (which i like to think was intentional, for the same lack-of-celebrity spike discussed, if not to avoid the murderer, etc.).... plus the injection of the female and the date was well done, imo.... helped elevate it to feel like more than a standard mystery climax, and up the ante, not to mention further give depth to watson.

I was unsure which holmes story this was based on, does anyone know? I am bad with the titles. For a while i thought it was going to be the ones where (forgive me, cant remember the titles at all) the policeman is in on it (he was so unhelpful and dismissive like in the story, and also, how often is lestrade not the central cop on the case), or maybe even the one with the man in the fireplace... just because the woman was hiding in the museum, basicaly right where she worked, and in a ventilation shaft (modern chimney equivalent, perhaps) ... those were always two of the best stories/twists imo, so i was hoping to see them at some point....

And do we think that next week episode HAS to have moriarty, right? they wouldnt tease him so heavily for this series if he wasnt invoved, yeah? Not too aware of gattiss writing, but dark is good, some of the best parts of the new series have been the more adult, dark portions like the cabbie's MO.

I think next weeks will really kick ass.

Finally I think euros lynn is a fine director, i wouldnt really fault him in this episode, at least imo.
post #67 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
That's another callback to the books...
Right - that's it. I've just ordered the Complete Sherlock Holmes from Amazon!
post #68 of 665
Gatiss is just more of a horror influenced writer, his first show 'The League of Gentlemen' was notorious for being vaguely inspired by Hammer Horror and being very transgressive.

I think this episode of Sherlock was partially based on The Adventure of the Dancing Men.

From what I'd heard the series was designed to intially be stand alone with an ability to expand. So I assume they're dealing with M next week. However it's not the first time Moffat has written a one off season with an unresolved hook.
post #69 of 665
interesting, dancing men occured to me (also one of the best stories), but for some reason i dismissed it, thought it seemed like a bit too much of a departure... chinese shorthand symbols arent exactly made-up code, plus the dancing men was about two peoples exchanges, and their relationships, not a whole gang... but you must be right, i think.

It would be cool if the symbols stay on the wall in some way going forward, a la the dancing men (didnt he have a strip of it above his desk in future stories?).

Also, london a to z, is the equivalent of americas "white pages" right ... name/address of residents? .... I hope so because if its a tourists guide thats weak ... especially when they had the damp phonebook (which was my guess, not far off) used earlier ...
post #70 of 665
An A-Z is essentially a pocket sized compendium of Maps of the local area. You get them for every major city and they're updated annually. They're just roadmaps.
post #71 of 665
ok, thanks... basically six of one ... annual update, given to everybody.
post #72 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
Loved it. Loved Cumberbatch, his introduction with the Riding Crop was fantastic.

I groaned when Gatiss showed up, I love Gatiss as an actor but I didn't want 'that' character to show up in another Holmes adaptation. Then I figured out who he actually was and was a lot happier, then 'that' character was referenced at the end and I groaned a lot.

Love the style of the show too, great energy whilst also keeping the intelligence of Holmes intact.
Only just got around to watching it tonight, but i'm pretty much in this mind - it's wonderful looking, charming and doesn't grate in any of the ways I thought it might.

Remarkable pace for what I thought was an hour and a half too.
post #73 of 665
Thread Starter 
I'm going to watch the second one now but I've just been pointed to the Project Gutenberg website where you can legally download every Holmes book ever written, which is pretty nice.
post #74 of 665
The second one's fantastic, it also contains some oddly haunting and hypnotic cinematography.

It's remarkably adult-feeling entertainment. There's humour, but it's welcome and clever - as opposed to obvious and campy. It's also just really a really smart show, with the revelations being quite wholesome.
post #75 of 665
Watched the first two and I really enjoy this show. Really well done. Loved the bit with Mycroft at the end of the 1st episode. Also, really dog the hell out of the music in this. So many good bits in those first two.
post #76 of 665
Really enjoying this so far. The first one was definitely superior to the second, but I was astounded by the number of stories they adapted and referenced in the second episode. So far I count The Dancing Men, The Valley of Fear, The Sign of Four, The Norwood Builder, The Empty Room (and any number of the locked room mysteries), and this is stretching but something about the Newspaper reporter flipping out and fleeing up the stairs to lock himself in his room reminded me of the The Resident Patient.

Fantastic adaptation all in all, and I'm really digging Cumberbatch (how fun is it to type that name?) and Freeman in their roles.
post #77 of 665
Re. the final episode: Holy shit.
post #78 of 665
Brilliant. What a great story, flew along at a marvellous pace. Was a little unsure of Moriarty, at first, but he grew on me quickly during his big scene. And they're absolute bastards for ending it that way.
post #79 of 665
This show is great, really great. But that performance of Moriarty, just really annoys me. I get the intention, but its just a bit weak, the voice is especially annoying.

Hate to be that guy, but its just too distracting. Everyone else is played with realism, he just comes across as cartoonish.
post #80 of 665
Pretty obvious the guy at the hospital was Moriarty the second he said his name was Jim.
post #81 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by themykra View Post
This show is great, really great. But that performance of Moriarty, just really annoys me. I get the intention, but its just a bit weak, the voice is especially annoying.

Hate to be that guy, but its just too distracting. Everyone else is played with realism, he just comes across as cartoonish.

SPOILERS FOR THE GREAT GAME


Absolutely agree. I was loving The Great Game, thinking it one of the all time great Holmes entertainments (of any medium), until Moriarty showed up acting like a refugee from Monty Python's "Find The Fish". I haven't been this disappointed since Doctor Who reintroduced The Master via the great Derek Jacobi only to turn him into this wild 'n zany Jim Carrey guy 5 minutes later.

Not too wild about that ending either.

Oh well. It's still a superb show. When it returns, I'm hoping they'll establish that we didn't see the real Moriarty. Just like, his naughty nephew or something.

SPOILERS END
post #82 of 665
I called the future brother in law being the murderer in the one case but somehow missed that the IT guys name was Jim (probably cos I wasn't expecting it).

And I have to disagree with all of you he was a fantastic Moriarty; a person that can hide in plain site is a perfect choice, the total opposite of Holmes' bold brash persona. Sure he got as little over the top near the end but I think it fits with the charater they have created. I also loved the inclusion of the Homeless network, nice nod to the Baker Street irregulars.

As for the ending they are bastard flavored bastards in bastard sauce for pulling it. Even though (again) it's a nice not to the original ending to Holmes' story (before Conan-Doyle bought him back).
post #83 of 665
Is it just me or did the chap playing Moriarty really remind them of the Thermidons* - the nice but dim aliens in Galaxy Quest? His accent and intonation were all over the place. Maybe that was as intended. Never give up! Never surrender! Just me, then.

Apart from that, I thought it excellent - beautifully shot, too, which is a nice thing to say about a modern BBC (or UK, for that matter) drama.

*I appreciate that they might not be called this.
post #84 of 665
Very nearly perfect, although I still enjoyed the second episode far more - this was still a fun finale that just suffered ever so slightly from odd pacing. The multitude of crimes, whilst fun to see solved - actually meant an overall more shallow experience because I felt less invested in it.

Moriarty was fantastic. He's an intellectual match but also an opposite, his voice being disjointed like that just made him come across as insane and supported the earlier ideas that he'd use "someone else's voice" because of how distinctive he was.

I can see why people wouldn't like him being "over the top" (because let's be honest, people like their villains to play to type) but if you're struggling with "realism" after anything in this series - the Golum would like a word with you.
post #85 of 665
Someone on facebook pointed out that they thought Moriarty sounded like this guy, I'm guessing that wasn't intentional.
post #86 of 665
I'm usually down with unusual spins on characters, I loved Simm's Master, but I just didn't get what they were trying to do by making Moriarty so fey. It's such an odd choice and I can't really work out the reason for it, other than it's a contrast with Sherlock. Sherlock is cold when he speaks, clipped and unemotional, whilst Moriarty is completely emotional and it's apparent in his voice and mannerisms.

Still loved the episode, the stuff with the old woman was just harrowing, even if I thought certain bits didn't work as well in practice as they did conceptually (the fight in the Planetarium almost seemed cacophanous).
post #87 of 665
Kind of love this show and think it is a pretty great piece of pulp TV all the way around.

I saw the way Moriarty was presented as the flip side spoiled brat of Holmes. Whereas Holmes is the brat as brooding and uncaring, but ultimately just going to sit there and pout, Moriarty is the brat who feels the need to lash out and cause chaos.

Yes, very happy with the show. Now, will someone let John Rogers have a crack at doing his take on Holmes.
post #88 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Marshall View Post
I'm usually down with unusual spins on characters, I loved Simm's Master, but I just didn't get what they were trying to do by making Moriarty so fey. It's such an odd choice and I can't really work out the reason for it, other than it's a contrast with Sherlock. Sherlock is cold when he speaks, clipped and unemotional, whilst Moriarty is completely emotional and it's apparent in his voice and mannerisms.

Still loved the episode, the stuff with the old woman was just harrowing, even if I thought certain bits didn't work as well in practice as they did conceptually (the fight in the Planetarium almost seemed cacophanous).
Agreed with the old woman plotline and the slightly wonky execution of some elements.

I think the take on Moriarty was slightly more stilted by the earlier "fakeout" of Sherlock's brother who would seem like the more natural choice.

The more I think about it though the more I do like their take - but it's also entirely possible this is just an "unusual spin for the sake of it"

Gutted it's finished for now. BBC's already announced they're reviewing making some more which is nice.
post #89 of 665
Already setting up a 2nd season now, probably wont be here for a year though
post #90 of 665
And the world is a better place....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10925753

Confirmed; more eppisodes are coming.
post #91 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
And the world is a better place....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10925753

Confirmed; more eppisodes are coming.
Excellent news, hopefully the quality won't be diluted by having too much on Moffat/Gattis's plate.
post #92 of 665
I assumed that everything Moriarty was doing was just for show. His slight campness and his overacting (As well as his slipping between a few different accents) was just to make it harder for Holmes to figure out who he was. If you knew of Holmes abilities to 'read' you then surely its beneficial to throw up as many smokescreens as you can.

I honestly thought it was going to be Mycroft the whole time (Only because more Gatiss is always welcome) but I liked the direction they took it in.
post #93 of 665
I agree. I thought he was intentionally playing it up as well for the most part.
post #94 of 665
yeah i got "over-the-top on purpose" as well... didnt really think it was to throw SH off, but it makes perfect sense, and I hope thats what it is.

Also, has Moriarty been referred to as a consulting criminal before? If so, I forgot, but I thought it was a great parallel to draw between the two.

At the end I had a brief argument with the person I was watching it with ... Do you think sherlock was going to shoot it? And moreso, do you think they would have lived?

My take was sherlock would NOT have slid it across the room for safety and then STAYED in the room if it was still at a fatal proximity... otherwise why slide it... but the person I was with didnt agree, pointed to the fact the other bomb (with less visible c4 blocks no less) blew a hole in like 5 stories of the old womans building.

And no one expects it to pick up right there, right? If anything we'll get a flash backward or some way of discovering how it was resolved, but they won't start right there again, right?

Liked the use of multiple sherlock stories again ... the orange pips (do brits call the phone beeps "pips"), the top of the train trick ... couldnt place any more off the top of my head, but I kind of like the combining of multiple stories.... even red-headed league with the notion of throwing holmes off the true scent (was that red-headed league, it was one story i know).

Also liked that they acknowledged Watsons "journals" as blogs (after setting it up in ep 1), and already they are annoying holmes, hehe....
post #95 of 665
Finally watched all 3 episodes - sorry it took so long to join in - loved the show.

was disappointed that they revealed moriarty at all - especially in such a rushed way, i hoped for more distanced jousting. I also shuddered at "Jim" Moriarty. If he had appeared in all 3 episodes as a minor faggy IT guy I'd be more impressed at the reveal, still I didn't guess it was him.

Look forward to more next year!

These 3 episodes will apparently be aired in the US under the masterpiece theatre banner on PBS starting in October.

Also, yes, phone beebs (particularly when one is out of money on a payphone) are called pips and also (greenwich) time pips on the radio - which were referenced here.
post #96 of 665
This guy:


Needs to play this guy:
post #97 of 665
just watched the unaired pilot (on the extras of the dvd):

The same story, same actors all around (couldnt tell on the black detective, she looks very different in the unaired version, but that could be costume as shes in a police outfit instead of plain clothes), mostly the same scenes and beats...

differences: cabbie has no passenger and no chase ensues after they lure him to the restaurant, so sherlock fakes drunk and approaches the cab himself, then gets kidnapped.

The finale takes place in 221B, not a school.

no mention of moriarty or mycroft (actually mycroft is the recipient of an email sherlock sends in the beginning).

Also, no pop-up texts, the few times it happens are via reverse shots of watsons iphone.

But generally its far less impressively acted and directed... Even the set decoration and production design (I like the official pilots 221B much better), costumes (sherlock wears high-waisted JEANS in the unaired version!)... Basically, I think they made a very wise move reshooting it, and the changes were all very good imo.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention one part i DID like about the unaired pilot.... sherlock figures out a cabbie is responsible all on his own (as one should when discussing the unmemorable but trusted) ... whereas him not knowing, and not checking the driver when they caught up to the cab (in the official pilot) always rang VERY false for someone as smart as holmes.
post #98 of 665
Moffat has dropped some hints in a recent interview regarding next year's episodes:

"The critical words, I’d say, would be - ***Adler, Hound, Reichenbach***"

Jinkies, not hanging around, is he? Straight onto the crowdpleasers, full steam ahead.
post #99 of 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post
This guy:

Needs to play this guy:
Oof, excellent call.

I still find it kind of hard to believe that name Benedict Cumberbatch actually belongs to a real person, as opposed to a character in a fantasy novel or something.
post #100 of 665
Just caught the first episode on PBS (weird not watching it on BBC America). Very entertaining. At one point it was like Saw meets Princess Bride.
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