Comic Book questions...

Is it common knowledge he's blind?

- Because he doesn't want people who see him to realize he is blind outside of his superhero activity. He wants to avoid that DD - Matt Murdock connection. Or he shops at Shitty Costumes R' US and just picked some generic outfit from the shelves.

So, there is someone I talk to sometimes, and he likes to suggest things for me to read/watch. He enjoys some of the same things I do, but I don't really find his suggestions match up with my own personal taste most of the time. However, the other day he stopped by my job specifically to lend me his personal copy of the comic "THE GOON: CHINA TOWN"

He's very enthusiastic about getting me to read it, but it doesn't look like the kind of thing I'd enjoy (judging by the art style at least). I like that I have someone who thinks of me enough to want me to read their books, but I'm not sure that alone is adequate motivation to actually read GOON

Does anyone know anything about this title? Is it at all worth while? Could you perhaps tell me something intelligent to say about it so I can pretend I read it?

Has anyone else read Fall of Cthulhu?

I've read the first paperback, and it was really great, but I dont know if I have the energy or time to put into something thats going to fall off, quality wise.

No.

The mask has eyeholes, but depending on the artist...they are partially covered from the inside.

There's also this whole angle about how it was part of his dad's boxing gear, but that seems to have been dropped.

Eric Powell is a solid artist, but the Goon isn't for everyone. I enjoyed Satan's Butt Baby, but the other issues left me cold.

He also did some work on a few Metalocalypse comics. Plus, he did a really solid "Bizarro World" story with Richard Donner and Geoff Johns.

1. What is the appeal of the big event / crossover?
2. Why do people keep reading them when whatever events that occur within can and will be reversed by another big event / crossover in a year's time.
3. The idea that The Flash's rogues gallery doesn't completely fucking suck is totally a Geoff Johns attempted inception job, right? No one actually sees it any other way do they?

I don't know if it's appeal as much as not wanting to miss something important. I think people read them more out of a sense of obligation or wanting to not be left behind than out of any actual anticipation.

And they didn't used to fire them off one after another the way they have been for the past few years. There's definitely some Big Event Fatigue setting in now. I have a fairly hard core DC and Green Lantern geek co-worker, and he felt so burned by Blackest Night that he's given up on the GL line.

Big Event Fatigue, yes.

However, the suits were completely correct in their assumption that man-children's OCD could absolutely be traded on to line the coffers in the short term.

I gave up collecting because of my need for completism. Any appearance of GL I had to own. I became a Flash fan because of the constant team-ups. Blackest Night might have killed me had I still been collecting.

I want to get back into GL at the very least as a trade collector however I don't know if they make Crossover trades. Do they? I mean a GN that collects all the books in the crossover in order that they should be read?

In the Claremont X-Men run: How is it that Sebastian Shaw goes to political events, DoD meetings etc wearing 18th century clothes, and yet people in positions of power (Senator Kelly eg) not only take him seriously, they continue to fund his shitty Sentinels which never actually capture or kill Mutants but do go on rampages and devastate shopping malls, NYC etc"?

Shaw is only in those clothes during private/Hellfire Club functions. The outfit is part of the Hellfire Club aesthetic.

You never actually see Senator Kelly talking to Shaw in Hellfire Club garb, unless it's right outside of the Hellfire Club building.

Shaw does have other clothes and he wears them over the years.

1) The appeal is similar to big television events or film franchise shake-ups. People like the novelty of characters dying, getting fucked up and temporary status changes. The appeal is lost over time, but it's fun when you're younger.

2) It's not that things are going to get changed, it's how they are changed and where the company goes with it.

3) A lot of what Johns did was retcons and building on Waid's work on the series. While the Mirror Master and Trickster stuff has become old, the Captain Cold dynamic is spot fucking on. There's been a lot of Captain Cold character work since the Mid 1990s, unlike the others who just got darkened up to meet the current DC benchmark.

Not True! Shaw is "in costume" with Henry Gyrich in a Military facility in new Mutants 3, and later on he visits' Sunspot's Dad in Brazil also in costume.

I appreciate you insights into this issue, thank you Anderson

Just to throw in my two cents about the Goon. Personally I don't understand how you can't love the art, Eric Powell is so ridiculously polished and tuned into his style that everything he does is quality. As far as the story goes I would say China Town is probably the absolute WORST point for someone to jump into the Goon. The whole series has this sort of semi-lucid dream, languid melancholy going for it that's really piled on thick in China Town. It's a big plot point in the characters history and lacks a lot of the stupid goofy humor that the earlier books have going for them. Powell seems to be in a serious place lately with it...save the whole Satan's Sodomy Baby thing. I've tried a million times to get my wife to read it and she's utterly uninterested too so go figure. I don't know anything about your taste in comics Kate but the Goon kicks ass.

Fuck then. New Mutants defies me again!

ROBERTO DACOSTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, the only comics I've read for the most part have been Alan Moore, and generally I prefer a more realistic artistic style. However, I'm interested to hear you think it's worthwhile, but now kind of upset that I've been given what is apparently the worst entry of the series to start with.

I don't like goofy humour though so perhaps that might be a plus?

I didn't see the person today (who gave me his copy) so thankfully I have so more time to either start reading it or come up with an excuse

Do people find super-hero fights exciting in any way? Do you get a thrill from seeing drawings of people punching each other, the way you'd get a thrill from a well-shot action scene?

Very few artists can generate excitement on the page. Roughly less than 10. Plus, with the proliferation of modern media...the excitement angle is lost.

I can remember having my mind blown by Mike Zeck and Paul Smith fight scenes when I was younger. But, I also thought that people on television could see me through the TV cameras.

re: Action scenes in comics

It all depends on the story. If it's good and you're engrossed in what's going on, then you can be on the edge of your seat just like at an awesome action movie. But, it's a bit harder for comics to coast by on awesome action than it is for films, and there are exceptions to this rule. The Ultimates comes to mind as a book that doesn't have a particularly gripping story but gets away with its action: you know who the good guys are and what they do, you know who the bad guys are and what they do. The thrills come when Hitch does his widescreen thing and draws some awesome "money shots." But then there are scenes like some of the gun fights in Brubaker and Philips' "Sleeper," which from a purely practical standpoint just shouldn't work and in and of themselves aren't that impressive, but there's a sense of investment in the story that takes things up a notch for the reader, and is really the type of thing most creators in action comics genre should be aiming for.

The action in a comic can be just as awesome as that on a screen. We3 is a good example.

If Spiderman derives his ability to shoot webs from that radioactive spider, shouldn't he be shooting webs out of his ass? (a question first posed in the awesome Marvel series Alias).

If in fact Peter Parker invented the Web fluid and Web Shooters, why the fuck isn't he a multimillionaire, if not from that web fluid (which has some fucking amazing properties!) why couldn't he invent something else, or commercialize all the tech he picks up from Doc Ock etc?

Also, why does the Vulture invent an anti-Gravity device, and use it to become a purse snatcher?

Patrick Ripoll, YES! Action Scenes in a comic, can be...Awe-Inspiring, like when, Jack "King" Kirby draws them. Jim Steranko's run on...Nick Fury Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. is awesome, too! Comic action scenes can be...Better than film and tv, since a comic has an...Unlimited budget. As much as I enjoy...Michael Bay's Transformers Films, I...Love Marvel's Shogun Warriors Defenders Of World Freedom, more!

1) Peter Parker is governed by crippling rules of morality.
2) Steve Ditko refused to draw ass shooters.
3) The Vulture was an old man. If an old man invented an anti-grav device, he'd just use it for petty crime and to scare kids off his lawn. They're fucking old, they gave up on conquering the world in their youth.

Action scenes in comics are something of a conundrum. Like Duke Fleed mentioned, there is NO budget and I think that's a gift and a curse for a lot of artists. In college when we had to do sequential pages a lot of guys struggled with the fight scenes. It's really easy to draw up some thumbnails that are kinetic and incredible then you get into the finals and they're over rendered and way too stiff. As much as I'm not a fan of manga I think a lot of asian artists really get the "speed" of conflict in comics. D.S. Randlett mentioned the Ultimates and to me the Cap/Pym fight in one of the trades is a great example of detailed art that's got some motion to it. If you look at it and you FEEL that punch or kick or flaming sword of justice that's all that really matters right? Walt Simonson is great about keeping that fluid form in his art and I think Hiroaki Samura does a fair job of it too in his nitch.

Regarding Spider-Man. He's always been the sort of character that fights Joe Schmoes. He bats around purse snatchers and old weirdos with incredibly advanced technological wonders that they use to act like purse snatchers. He's still a great character though and I honestly don't want to see him taking on the likes of Dr. Doom or hanging out with the Silver Surfer.

Lastly, Kate and your taste in art...whatever right? Everyone likes something different. I'm on the side that if it works for the story use stick figures. Queen and Country catches flack for having "cartoony" artists do espionage stories but I dig it so apples and oranges. The Goon books really aren't arduous reads, you can breeze through it pretty fast, especially since you won't be drooling over Powell's fucking amazing art.

I happen to have this comic, Dark Reign Elektra by Zeb Wells, on my hard drive. I think its a good example of exciting comic action. Smartly realized and fun to read.



Fake EDIT: Let me know if the size is too big, though I am hosting this on photobucket.

Someone brought up why people were impressed by drastic changes/violence on the printed page?


Well, pick up "Batman and Robin #16" today. When you invest enough time with a book to get that pay-off, it's worth it.

Even as a jaded adult, I found fight scenes in both Invincible (can't say which one - don't wanna spoil it) and the first Ultimates book (Hulk versus everydamnbody) to be more entertaining than similar scenes in motion pictures. Much like movies, you have to work with the media and not against it to really get into it.

This may be just an example of it not being my bag, then, because it's well drawn and clear, but there's nothing "exciting" about it for me. I have the same problem with pulpy detective novels. I love the characters and the mood, but any time it gets into fisticuffs or a shoot-out, I start to get bored.

That Banana-Peel!

Batman and Robin is great at realizing action sequences though, nice call.

I just remembered a question I'd like informed opinions on: Does anyone know exactly when Frank Miller went from being a genius to being bat-shit crazy? I'm not looking for "early nineties"; I'd like to narrow it down to a specific book, issue, or even word balloon. For science.

300.

The fascist leanings really started when he was working on that book. It also seems to be the time that his relationship with Lynn Varley ended.

9/11 seemed to have worked a number on him if I recall correctly, and brought out those fascist leanings in him even more. 300 is probably his last good work, even with his more troubling ideas beginning to poke through. But there is a difference between switching politics and becoming creatively bankrupt, and I seem to remember DK2 being the work that signaled the arrival of not only the full-fledged crazy Miller, but also the shitty Frank Miller. I got the feeling when that... thing debuted that he had essentially stopped caring about his work, and basically became the John Carpenter of comics. In a way, I think that 300 is the perfect expression for his newfound sense of "self," and after that he really had nothing left to say. Has he done anything besides slight Batman books for the last few years? Or the past decade? Jesus wept.

I used to be able to defend DK2 as part of Miller's slam on the current era of publishing. Then, it sunk in that Miller was batshit insane.

To me, I feel like he lost something between Give Me Liberty (which is among my favorite comic books and favorite directed-by-Paul-Verhoeven fantasy movie) and Martha Washington Goes To War, which seemed way too broad and dumb for me. It was like the Gremlins 2 to Liberty's Gremlins. Wow... I guess all of my metaphors are going to be idiotic today, but that's the best I can explain it right now.

Reevaluating his oeuvre, I think Miller was always crazy, it's the ideology behind the crazy that became purer over time, i.e., with age and 9/11. Also, Sickboy's unifying theory of life.

That said, I cannot fucking wait to read Holy Terror. I'm not even really reading mainstream comics at the moment, but on that special Wednesday, when Miller will undoubtedly let that bubbling cauldron boil right the fuck over, I will be the first person in line at my local comic shop.

As far as current Miller crazy, the All-Star Batman comics he did are pretty special. All the non-ironic Rosharch narration and hooker action that a person could ever want!

Thing with All-Star is that there's a lot of talk about it just being a piss take, just Miller making fun of the fans (Faraci claimed that Miller told him this explicitly). I can buy that, I can buy Miller being spiteful for the fuck of it, but there's something to be said about a guy who hasn't done anything interesting in 15yrs deciding to piss on the people that got him where he is, take the money and run. I'd be far more impressed with such a transgressive attempt at satire if it was coming from a fresh, vital place.*

What's problematic about the alleged satire of All-Star, is that it doesn't explain The Spirit. Simply put, Miller is an angry old dude with a dusty bag of tricks, and he's stuck in between a dimming legacy and cultural irrelevance.



*That said, I enjoyed how fucking delirious All-Star was, even if I felt it was coming from the wrong place, creatively.

Question from an il-literate: which Brubaker's Captain America -comic should I read first: REBORN or WINTER SOLDIER?

Winter Soldier first.

 

Reborn should come much later.

     Quote:

 

We3 is a perfect example. The action scenes and panel placements are so beautifully cinematic that they actually surpass many filmed action scenes.

I recently decided to give Superman a chance. So I got Red Son (good) and Kingdom Come (better). Taking this into account and also that my only other exposure to the comic was with the Death Of Superman debacle, what other storylines do you guys suggest? 

 

Thanks! Anything I should read between those two? How does ROAD TO REBORN fit into this?

Depends on what kind of tone you like. "Birthright" by Mark Waid and Lenil Yu is a treatment of the origin story, but there are enough twists and new elements that make it worthwhile and fresh. It's in a totally different mode from "Kingdom Come", and the influence of Joss Whedon can be felt a bit, what with the witty dialog and all.

 

"Secret Identity" by Kurt Busiek and Stuart Immonen is also quite good, even if it's not "technically" a Superman story. The main character, named Clark Kent, starts as a teen who discovers that he has Superman's powers. The story goes through his entire life, in which he becomes our world's Superman. So, not in continuity, but the book's protagonist is very much Superman, and the book actually does a really good job of exploring the meanings of the character in a completely different context than we're used to. The art is really great, and the story can be really touching at times.

 

And if you haven't read Morrison and Quitely's "All Star" run yet, it's essential. The style is very light and breezy, but at the same time Morrison and Quitely do a really good job of expressing why Superman is one of the great characters, and tell a compelling story that explores virtue in the modern world. I thought it was pretty slight at first glance, but each subsequent reading has revealed some hidden riches, and not in that "never noticed that in the background" kind of way. More in that "So that's what they're getting at!" kind of way. If you can find a way to do so, I'd read this in the Absolute format if you haven't yet, as Quitely's art really benefits from the extra size.

 

After All Star, you're pretty much primed for anything from Big Blue's history. There are a lot of classic stories and runs out there, and I think Superman is slightly underrated in terms of how many objectively really good stories that have occurred in his pages over the years. Don't get me wrong, there have been some stinkers, but once in a while something comes along that reminds us why we all liked this character so much.

Superman really is the classic example of a fascinating character who's often mishandled, to the point where ignoramuses think he's "boring". (I think Wonder Woman's even worse--she could be really, really cool, but there are so few good Wonder Woman comics. I REALLY want Grant Morrison to tackle her at some point.)

 

Anyway, yeah, All-Star Superman is the definitive version. Alan Moore's Superman stories are also great, which is ironic because a lot of them (Marvelman/Miracleman and Supreme) aren't actually literally about Superman. It really is a crying shame that DC screwed over Moore, because if they'd let him, he could have been a major force in reinventing the DC Universe post-Crisis, which might have led to something far more intriguing than the gimmick it ultimately turned out to be. You actually get Moore's version of the Crisis on Infinite Earths in the pages of Swamp Thing, and it's awesome, much cooler than the real thing, and suggests some deeper thematic directions to take the DC Universe in. His abortive suggestion for a big, multi-company crossover, Twilight of the Superheroes (which was essentially ripped off for Kingdom Come) would have been amazing, too. (You can actually read his pitch here). Anyway, Alan Moore's work on Superman definitely lays the groundwork for All-Star, particularly the aforementioned Supreme.

 

I've also heard really good things about Garth Ennis's handling of Supes in the pages of "Hitman". Haven't read it, but my understanding is that it's actually a very respectful and true-to-character depiction of Superman from a guy you'd expect would hate everything about the character. But I know Ennis is a good enough writer that he can put aside his personal quirks and write a character truthfully and sympathetically when he needs to.

All-Star Superman it is, then. Thank you gentlemen.

 

If I had to build a reading order for All Cap, it would be this. An asterisk marks the Brubaker stuff.

 

ESSENTIAL CAPTAIN AMERICA VOLUMES 1-4 (a cheap way to get caught up on Cap in the 1960s and 1970s)

Captain America by Jack Kirby Omnibus

Captain America: War and Remembrance

*Captain America: Winter Soldier, Book One
*Captain America: Winter Soldier, Book Two
*Captain America: Red Menace, Book One
*Captain America: Red Menace, Book Two
Civil War
*Captain America: Civil War
*Civil War: The Confession (after Cap # 25, before Cap # 26)
*Fallen Son: The Death of Captain America (after Cap # 25, before Cap # 26)
*The Death of Captain America, Vol. 1: The Death of the Dream
*The Death of Captain America, Vol. 2: The Burden of Dreams
*The Death of Captain America, Vol. 3: The Man Who Bought America
*Captain America: The Man with No Face
*Captain America: Road to Reborn
*Captain America: Reborn
*Captain America: Two Americas
*Captain America: No Escape 

 

There's a lot of great Gruenwald material that's uncollected that Brubaker pulls upon. Plus, the Waid stuff is a little dated...so I left that out.

Thanks a million! Without your advice I would've started with REBORN, just because of the title and the cover.