Batman: Arkham City - Page 7

It's as if you saw Hulk's response column, but only read the numbered items in bold.

You know what'd be a lot more realistic than the derogatory language and attitude to women in this game? Most of Batman's rogues gallery having long ago been shot in the head and buried in a ditch for attempting to just muscle in on some Outlaw MC's turf. This game doesn't feature a realistic take on criminals, it's not even in the ballpark, so I don't really have any care about that defense at all.

 

 

And maybe I'd be a little bit more easy-going about this if the characters in the GAME addressed it every now and then. If say Catwoman gave some post-fight one-liner about these tough guys getting laid out by a girl, or Harley actually shown asserting authority over the minions she leads, or maybe having a character like Renee Montoya(she's good enough for my avatar! So she's good enough for the game) leading a group of cops who can assist you in your mission.

 

 

Just something instead of casual misogyny that goes completely unremarked by anybody.

picked it up, loved the beginning, totally didn't see them starting it off like that. that said, i'm a little overwhelmed. to me, at least, it seems a little more complicated starting off than Asylum. if this is your first rodeo, you might have trouble.

 

had to take a break. i knew it was going to be big, but damn, this is awesome. do wish the different buildings and lairs were a little more....distinct?

Man..Catwoman and sexism in Batman!

 

I think its goofy, just like Batman being this massive wall of rippling slab. Yet as Bruce Wayne he looked pretty fucking normal..I dunno. All the bitch shit and this that and the other. I mean you're in a giant prison city, I hear most assholes talk to women like that in public. World is burning, hell in a hand basket, streets filled with vomit..etc. all your typical Travis Bickle sort of stuff.

 

To me it always feels like Catwoman is the most honest person in town. Her tits are hanging out, she's got a whip and she suckers pretty much everyone around her with all that sway and jiggle. Scenes with her and Batman are always so fucking awkward. Like she's the hot teacher that WANTS to fuck his brains out and he's all, "Miss Kyle! Indeed!"

 

You've got Oracle, who's always chatting him up (Not in this game but you get my drift.) and they're "friends" so of course she's a fucking cripple. So it's natural that Catwoman is all, "Meow.." and all that stereotypical shit. My oldest daughter thinks she's fucking awesome and has played the living crap out of the Catwoman levels over and over and over. She did ask why her "susu"s were hanging out though and I just sort of shrugged and said it made it easier for her to climb....less restriction etc. I dunno, I'm a guy.

 

EDIT: Oh, and though Harley is crazy, in this and in the comic. In that one shot Brian Azarello wrote...and yes I know she was stripping at a club in it...she was also the one that pretty much held the Joker together when he would do shit like lay in bed and cry like a little bitch.

 

Anyone looking for the reason comic book writers don't know how to write women? Exhibit A, right above.

 

FY daughter's I, giant tits make it HARDER for athletic women to do things, not easier, especially if they're just hanging out. That's why sports bras compress instead of push up.

 

By the way, why did no one stop looking any further than Batman Returns for a fucking guidebook on how to make the sexualization of a character meaningful? Catwoman's a complete, pants-stiffening sexpot in that film, and yet every sexual moment means SOMETHING for that character.

Fellas, admitting that the sexism is a bit over-the-top and offensive in Arkham City won't make your penises any smaller than they already are. You can still drink Mountain Dew and snap into a Slim-Jim if you so desire.

I'll give you a bit over the top. But not offensive. This is a video game. Based on a comic book character. I appreciate the sentiments of the female gamers. The world isn't always fair. As someone from a military family, I didn't get offended when you could play as the OpFor in COD games, killing US soldiers, or that 75% of military/spy games use the tried and true "military conspiracy" to take over the US and plot war, because that is why most people join the service, right? (And yes, I roger that women have real issues in the world, whereas folks in the service do not - it is not my intention to equate the circumstances).

It is OK, because that is a staple of fiction, as is an over the top, highly sexualized femme fatale. It is there, but it is not malicious, and it is hardly worth climbing up the high horse.

If we are going to go after societal challenges with respect to women's issues, let us start in grocery store checkout magazine racks.

I don't think anyone's accusing the game of malicious sexism, just poor decision-making design-wise. And making fun of the silly fanboy rush to defend it at all costs, even from those who haven't played the game.

 

As far as the actual game goes, I still can't get the hang of dive-bombing and pulling off the glide properly. Guess I need to practice that more.

But the question becomes, if this is how criminals act, how come nobody calls Batman a punk-ass bitch? Same word, same context, and hey, how satisfying would laying that smackdown be on the guy who said it. But, nope, they use it exclusively for her. And, aside from Ivy, from the missions I've played so far, nobody threatens her in ANY OTHER WAY. The laziness is more offensive than the fact that they keep calling Catwoman a bitch.

 

Again, like the article says, think about how The Joker threatens Rachel Dawes in The Dark Knight. Or how the Animated Series handles Catwoman, especially when Roland Daggett's involved. There's so many ways to play malicious with sexuality without using the same lunkheaded epithet over and over. And without the character of Catwoman seeming aware of all this in any way, shape, or form, it makes her almost complicit.

 

I'm probably gonna find out tonight, since I'm finally tracking a League of Assassins grunt across the city (after 6 hours of gameplay, I might add.), but does the game handle Talia Al Ghul any better?

The AR missions are most definitely your friend here.

 

Speaking of which, for those looking for it, AR Mission 4 (southwestern part of the map, near the restricted area), puts you down near Ace Chemicals. The Monarch Theater and Crime Alley are in that general neighborhood.

 

Also, you need to kneel down next to the rose, not Hugo Strange's bouquet (though his monologue when you examine it is just chock full of awesome menace), for a full minute for the Moment of Silence achievement to kick in.

And just a heads-up, if the map seems a little bewildering to you from time to time, there's now an iOS Map App available for $2.99.

Batman would use Android, damn you, Warner Bros Interactive!

Still a cool idea, though.

Finished the story the other day...loved the bejesus out of it.  The definitive Batman experience.

 

Chipping away at side missions/Riddler stuff/whatever else in this MASSIVE game.  I don't know that there's ever been a game with more after-completion content.  I'm overwhelmed.

 

For me, this is the game to beat for GOTY.

 

As for the sexism angle...the critics of its handling in the game REALLY expect these hardened, sadistic, psychotic criminals to respect the possibility that a woman might kick their ass?  That would be  impossibly unrealistic.  Moreover, Catwoman is hot.  She has always been hot.  That isn't going to change.  Nobody is gonna expect a chick like that to kick their ass.  And again, they're PRISONERS.

So I understand the complaints...I just think they're reaching. 

I did that anyway, not even aware of the achievement...the music was too good to get up and possibly ruin the moment.

 

 I've already switched to custom soundtracks. When I found Crime Alley, this was JUST coming on. By the time the Achievement went off and I was heading up to the rooftops again, this was starting. Improved as the music is this time, I can't imagine anything fucking with how amazing that was.

heeelllloooooo Talia

I dunno what game you're playing but I'm pretty sure when I was Bruce Wayne more than one guy was going to make me "his bitch".

 

Some of you bleeding heart motherfuckers are ridiculous, day after day it's one soap box after another. Christ, I'll just shake my head and lolz in my corner.

 

I don't really think I was arguing against it being sexist or somehow teaching my daughter that it's okay for a girls boobs to be hanging out..if we're gonna sit around jacking off over the details though then Batman should be in fucking tactical gear and fall to a flaming death the first time he tries to grapple glide around the city.

 

I love you guys but sometimes...fucking game, etc.

 

Edit: And the tits thing was said with a smirk that my seven year old actually understood...your tits hanging out would never make it easier to climb. Le sigh. Sometimes..fuck it.

Just overheard an inmate say something along the lines of "Did they ever actually say what the deal with the island was?"  Heh.

I think it's time all of you really took a moment and did a bit of self-examination about how you've made theGhost feel. All he wanted to do was make some hanging tit jokes with his daughter and defend the shit out of this Batman game, and you've taken your super-gay sensitivities and Fucking Liberal Agenda and just shat up everything for all the real men. Fucking lesbian bitches.

 

 

This isn't a realistic depiction of a prison, or prisoners, or criminals, or any type deviant out there on the wrong side of the law. I don't know why people keep attempting to use this excuse, it's fucking lazy. If you took away the swearing and the attempts to be gritty? There would be nothing to seperate this from the 60's version, at all. Actually I take that back, at least in the 60's Catwoman got treated as an actual threat by people.

 

And let's get nerdy here for a second! Gotham City has been shown over the course of many years to contain many professional female criminal types ranging from thieves, to assassins, to even high-ranking Mafioso. That's not even counting the fact that the villian who's possibly the biggest threat to the city trusts his own daughter to usually come ahead of him and carry out a lot of his plans, or the criminal that supposedly "scares the fuck" out of everybody" usually has his girlfriend as second in command of whatever homicidal plan he's got brewing. All in all I'd actually expect Gotham criminals in any setting to be WAY less likely to start screaming bitch, or threatening rape to the random women walking around who just might beat the shit out of them at best, and murderize them at most. And really, like I've been saying constantly from the beginning, if somebody actually "ADDRESSED" this shit at some point? I'd have a much easier time as a woman myself with the way the prisoners act, but nobody adresses that whatsoever in the game.

 

I mean just look at Harley Quinn in the game. She's obviously leading these mooks around, giving them orders, and getting her hands dirty. But from top to bottom there's really not either a sense of respect or fear whatsoever. Hell even Batman points out that she's an idiot, and you constantly hear henchmen discussing her in constantly leering terms. And there's no point in the game where Harley maybe asserts herself or gets to really be a threat. And considering that the Animated Series was capable of doing that, it drives me up the wall when this game doesn't. Why can't Harley be capable of holding her own a little bit? Why can't Harley be shown as crafty herself? Why can't Harley get a scene where she puts a few henchmen in line?

 

I don't think this shit is intentional by the way. I don't think all these dudes are he-man woman haters. But I do think they don't really give a thought about how they present things, and that annoys the fuck out of me. Even in a game I ADORE.

 

Somebody posted this on the board once before, but I think in the context of your post about clueless game designers and industry ignorance, it's a good video to bring up

 

(start watching at the 10 minute mark)

 

I've been hashing this argument out with my boyfriend - why I don't think it's okay, and while he thinks I'm just overreacting and that 'Women are confusing, becaues they're okay with some things some times, and then they're not."

 

Thank you Lauren, for puttingit so well. 

      Quote:

That's always the thing isn't it? "Super-gay sensitivities and Fucking Liberal Agenda" Do I need to put winky faces on posts so it's more clear that I'm not really taking it all that serious? I suppose that would help.

 

But yeah, complaining that Catwoman, a sexy criminal from a book for man-children, is overly sexualized is kind of retarded when you say in the same breath that everything is exaggerated. You can rumble on with all the pseudo-psychological bullshit and carve pieces of your own opinion from articles like Film Critic Hulks but I've never been one that argues for the sake of. Sooooo, think what you want.

 

The game kicks ass and honestly I would pick up a Catwoman game from Rocksteady without batting an eye. Hopefully they'd take some time to flesh her out and make her more interesting but if not it's like anything else that's poorly written, you pick it up for the art or gameplay.

 

For the record I like lesbians and bitches.

Warren Oates does not deserve to be associated with this dumb-assery.

 

Ok....THAT is awesome.  Custom soundtracks is something I never utilize but now that I've finished the game I can think of nothing that would satisfy me more than flying through Gotham playing Elfman's music. Or the Nolan soundtracks. 

sexism aside...the second catwoman mission really opens things up.

 

It is super fun playing as catwoman and just whipping around the city.  The little timing mini-game in climbing walls is fun too.

 

Its almost more fun playing with Catwoman than with bats.

If somebody would actually make me an Ed Brubaker-scripted Catwoman game with Darwyn Cooke in charge of concept art, using the Arkham City mechanics? I'd change my sexual orientation and marry them.

 

So, if anybody would like to bring home a perpetually depressed Salvadoran who will gladly sit on your couch all day and smoke pot while your working? Hurry up and get cracking on this game!

I don't really get why I can't grapple onto the little ceiling fences like Catwoman. I mean I get it from a game play stand point. You're encouraged, with Riddler trophies only she can get, to go look around the city and beat ass but after I got that grappling boost thing for Batman I'm such a fuck up at the timing with her wall jumps it feels like work. Her combat kind of makes me wish Batman felt heavier, he's so spry on his feet.

 

To be honest after the ending of Arkham Asylum I was kind of hoping to avoid the Joker this time around. I get it, he's Batman's archenemy but it doesn't feel like they gave Mark Hamill much to work with. I love his voice and how he rolls things around but I want him to be somehow MORE of a threat, or not in it at all. Early on I thought Harley was going to be the standout this time and then she does that first little cartwheel toward you and Batman is all, "Bitches Leave!" They could have used it as a way to put the Joker more in the shadows and Harley in the spotlight.

 

Am I the only one that Hugo Strange isn't working for? I just fucking hate him and every time I see his face all I can think of is that horrible fan made poster of Robin Williams.

OK, I'll get into this a bit. I'm not overly aggrieved with the sexism in Arkham City, because at the end of the day, it is of course a Batman video game. And let's be frank, writing two 5000 word articles about it with the authorial voice of the Incredible Hulk is a bit silly. But to deny it exists, or that people are just being "retarded" about it, well, that just seems willfully dismissive of something that almost everyone, particularly the women who've been playing the game, have found to be quite apparent. Add in a helping of fratboy dickishness with a soupcon of conservative rhetoric about the toxic threat of political correctness, and yeah, I'm gonna be a smartass about it.

 

But if you want to get down to it, I just don't understand why anyone would bother to defend Arkham City on these charges. Even the people who've pointed out all the bitch talk still agree the game is pretty kick ass. Personally, I find this sort of discourse fascinating; I would love to read a full blown feminist perspective piece on Batman video games. It's certainly made this thread awesome. I wouldn't even be reading it if it were just a bunch of complaining that the Penguin is cockney or whatever. To get up in arms over this doesn't even make sense to me.

I'm sorry that you feel I'm giving off fratboy dickishness. The fact that I shrug this sort of thing off probably means I'm a poor consumer for not expecting more from a group of academics like Rocksteady. I don't want you to think I'm defending it and the "smirky"ness of my post didn't come through but whatever. I felt the same way about the blackface trash lady in Deus Ex. Is it dumb? Yes. Poor taste? Absolutely.  But I don't share the same interest in reading that perspective piece either.

 

When it comes to this sort of thing I'm the kind of guy that goes, "Wow, we can sit on our couches and play Batman videogames. That's fucking incredible." And yes, I'm well aware that the Film Critic Hulk covers that whole, "There are real problems in the world." thing. I'm one of those guys I guess. But I'm also a combat vet so unlike most I've seen first hand just how crappy things can be. It wasn't my intent to stifle the conversation or come off as..how was it you put it? A real man that is against super-gay sensitivities and Fucking Liberal Agendas that shit on everything I like. If it was a portrait I'd hang it on my wall.

 

*waits for the chuckle behind that to be missed again*

For the earlier poster asking if Talia is handled any better, well at least no one calls her a bitch. Without giving too much away I felt her role in the story was somewhat half assed; but I'm not going to go into spoiler territory just yet. I can see the point of her, I just don't think the execution was there. 

 

As for the Catwoman issue, it just struck me as a little juvenile. It didn't bother me when prisoners were talking about wanting to fuck her, of course they would. Hell I heard one guy talking about being willing to fuck Mr Freeze's wife since it had been so long since he had any. She's clearly meant to be a sexual character and again that's fine, but it's a nerdish view on what a sexually confident woman is. Which is to say it's tits hanging out and not so subtle sexual references every chance she gets. Even towards Poison Ivy. 

 

I didn't really notice the 'Bitch' issue all that much until I entered a room and 3 thugs were talking about me (Catwoman). All three called her a bitch or variations thereof. In fact pretty much every thug encounter involves someone throwing the line out. It's not like the word bothers me, it's the overuse of the word that's an issue. And as was mentioned above, the fact that it's never commented on at all just makes it seem like it's OK. I'm not saying Rocksteady have any kind of moral obligation, it's just that they handle the rest of the game so well that that whole issue is at odds with everything else. 

You and me both. The best thing I can offer is to not or barely pull back on the right stick. Those AR missions are a pain in the ass. If I here "Advanced Reality Training initiated......Advanced Reality Training FAILED.".....one more time, I was gonna go crazy.

 

Here's a tip that seemed to work for me in a few spots. When you come out of the dive bomb leave the stick alone, Batman seems to level off on his own. 

Completely with you on that, that one fucking AR mission where you have to dive bomb and then soar through one of joker's fun house dealies almost made me fucking break my controller.

 

i still havent passed it.

yeah those are tough. beat the first set to get the turbo boost grapple or whatever its called. havent touched them since though

 

so hey, for anyone who has already beaten it....

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Still loving this game.

 

If anyone wants one of the Batman Beyond codes, shoot me a PM. I only used one of them, and there really is no reason to horde them (the Skins pack is available the 1st week of December).

 

 

I was having a lot of difficulty with the advanced AR missions until I figured out that pulling back on the stick before letting go of the dive button makes Batman gain altitude quickly while slightly touching the stick AFTER letting go of the dive lets Batman glide quickly without gaining much altitude.  Once I figured that out, I was able to finish the couple of AR missions that had been giving me fits, especially the one that dives under the overhangs and takes a turn towards the subway entrance.

Fuuuucccck, finding and getting someone of these Riddler trophies is killing me. There's one that's in the same long outside hallway as the Advanced AR mission in the Industrial area. You need to go down this long hallway then somehow glide up into the ceiling to break through the wall and I can't figure it out for the life of me and it's annoying.

Beat the first riddler room...while it was pretty simple to figure out I just fucking loved the whole concept behind it.  That was one of the more iconic "batman moments" for me.

 

Did anyone run into the riddler death trap room in the subway?  Is it really supposed to be unbeatable?

 

The one with three ??? on the floor,

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

 Solution below:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (solution) (Click to show)

 

I'm pretty much at the end, and I just figured out NOW that after Batman comes out of a dive bomb, and while gliding, you can press forward on the right stick and he can break through some of those breakable walls.

Also:

- there is a nice fake out towards the end ...which completely fooled me. I sat there in shock, until I realized what was going on. Well done, Rocksteady.

- the Mr.Freeze boss fight is the best in the series by FAR....though still a little too easy.

- this game holds your hand too much. at least on the Normal difficulty. I don't like how it gives you hints after you die.

- and maybe its just me, but Hugo Strange is FAR creepier than Zzasz in this game.

Quote:

It's kinda funny that it's actually easier to save the Riddler's hostages, than to get some of those damn Riddler trophies!
 

 

ahhhh, ok that makes a lot of sense now.

I don't know whether it was the designs of the rabbits or the fact I was playing past midnight in the dark, but the Mad Hatter segment freaked me out.

 

 

It was the design of the rabbits.

Is the Mad Hatter segment this game's Scarecrow levels?

Batman's rabbit face was pretty messed up.

 

Just finished the main story last night and loved the ending. It's good to see that Rocksteady finally figured out how do design boss encounters that work as cool set-pieces and are fun to play. Freeze was definitely the highlight, it's nice to see a boss adapt to your attacks and tactics instead of cycling through the same  3 or four attack patterns.

 

My biggest problem with the game is that it's trying way to hard to be "mature" and "gritty". This is a problem I had with the first game and but I feel its a bit more pronounced here. While in general the story is interesting and compelling the whole "gritty" tone just takes me out of it at times. It's a problem that goes from the character designs (What does replacing Penguin's monocle with a broken bottle bottom add to anything?) to the dialogue. I think the discussions about the sexism in the game go along with this. The creators seemed to have gotten over-zealous in compensating for this inherently ridiculous source material.

 

But I loved the game anyway and to end the post on a positive note, did anyone watch the whole credits and catch

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

If you're talking about the trophy that I think you are, it has absolutely nothing to do with gliding.  Start thinking with gadgets.

Perhaps I only tried the explosive gel on the tightrope and not on the ground itself. I dunno, I was a little burned out last night after going around and getting some 100 or so trophies/riddles.