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Hellraiser (1987)

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
I figured that I should start a thread for this movie here, as believe it or not tonight was the first time that I've seen any of the films in the series, let alone the original. I mean, of course I knew Pinhead and the cenobites and the Lament Configuration, but I had only seen some clips from the first film, which were of course some of the freakier scenes that could be shown on regular cable TV. After that disturbing footage, I thought, "Oh, I can wait to see all of this film." It wasn't until tonight that I bit the bullet and I realized that it wasn't all cenobites all the time and I was a fool for not seeing it much sooner.

Rather, it was a story about a guy (Frank) who was looking for more ways to derive pleasure and pain, and he certainly found it when given the Lament Configuration and was introduced to the cenobites. From there you saw Frank trying to become human again and his impact on his brother, his wife, and the very cute young daughter. But, I don't need to recap the plot as I'm sure all of you are more familiar with it than I was before tonight.

It was certainly a fucked-up movie with some unforgettable images but I managed to really enjoy it, despite how dated it was at times (oh, the special effects at the end; I know they were good considering the circumstances, but yikes. At least I really enjoyed the effects before that. They look great for the 80's and the budget. I'll never forget Frank reforming. Also, the big hair and some of the fashion got chuckles out of me).

It was certainly unique with how it was focused on sadomasochism and sex, pleasure and pain, with an unsatisfied woman doing all that in order to try and be satisfied. It also creeped me out from just about beginning to end. I liked how it wasn't all that graphic gore from beginning to end but instead it told a rather twisted yet fun story and it saved the effects for the right time. I also enjoyed how the unforgettable cenobites weren't seen that often and thus did not become overexposed. I have a feeling that the sequels DID show them too much and it's probably best if I didn't see most of them. I mean, seeing a giant blob creature wearing what looked like sunglasses... it's probably best if that creature isn't seen too often, so that you don't wonder why it's wearing what looks to be sunglasses, for example. Them not being the focus of the mayhem and rather them being the reason why a character wants to escape from them (and thus causes someone they know to cause mayhem)

So, I am very happy I finally saw this movie, which rates higher than most of the horror films of the 80's in terms of originality, creepiness, story, and characters going very far to try and fulfill their desires, no matter how twisted. If there's anyone who happens to be dumb like me and haven't watched this yet, you better get your ass in gear and check it out as soon as you can.
post #2 of 39
Yes, while the effects are dated, the storytelling itself it top-notch. A truly fucked up love story. With mucho scary creepy fucked-upness.

If you enjoyed it, give the second film a try. It continues right where the first left off and isn't to shabby at all as far as horror sequels go. It's not quite as scary and fucked up, but it has some interesting ideas and some trippy camera work.

Also, I may get shit for saying this, but I really dug Hellraiser: Inferno. One of the direct-to-video sequels. It definitely puts Pinhead and the gang back in the shadows, with very little screentime at all. It's kind of like a Silent Hill story featuring the Lament Configuration. It isn't trying to constantly wow you with kills and one-liners. If you're going to check it out, blindly watch it. It's a mystery so the less you know, the better.

DO NOT bother with any of the other films.
post #3 of 39
I like how the Cenobites aren't really bad guys, they just want to help a guy out. He wants to experience the ultimates of pleasure and pain, and they grant him that. It's also the only Clive Barker based film I've seen that really captures the twisted sexuality that his stories are dripping with.
post #4 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
I like how the Cenobites aren't really bad guys, they just want to help a guy out. He wants to experience the ultimates of pleasure and pain, and they grant him that. It's also the only Clive Barker based film I've seen that really captures the twisted sexuality that his stories are dripping with.
Yeah, it's too bad they dropped that aspect of neutrality regarding good and evil later on.
post #5 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubWilliams View Post
Yeah, it's too bad they dropped that aspect of neutrality regarding good and evil later on.
I'm not so sure about this. These guys have never been non-partisan (a cenobite is a religious follower, after all); they really want souls for Leviathan. I don't remember the movies couching it in "good" and "evil" terms. The way I saw it, the Cenobites were just trying to convert as many followers to their religion as possible. Sort of like Mormons.
post #6 of 39
What?

Quote:
The philosophical motivations of the Cenobites change with time and medium. In their original incarnation, they manifested as devoted followers of a supernatural hedonism with unorthodox definitions of pleasure; although vaguely described, this form of pleasure endorsed by the Cenobites involved two distinct forms: the expansion of sensation to an extremely painful point of sensory overload, and enduring excruciating pain through incessant tortures that transcend traditional laws of physics. They exhibited no discernible morality or immorality, merely the unwavering devotion to their craft. In the film adaptation (Hellraiser) they exhibited a more severe tone: impatient, stern, humorless, and almost intractably officious towards their duties, as well as capable of duplicity, illustrated when they attempt to violate their bargain with Kirsty Cotton (in the novella, they honored their agreement). As the film and comic books series progressed, the Cenobites--particularly Pinhead--began to manifest traditionally evil and sinister traits, due likely in part to an attempt to streamline them into a more mainstream characterization of horror archetypes.
post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
What?
Yeah, but in Hellraiser II, we see more of their world and their motivations, which includes their desire to collect souls for Leviathan. That idea is further elucidated in the comic's back story. Since both Hellraiser 2 and the comic "bible" were written with heavy involvement with CB, I consider it to be canonical.

The way I see it, their motivations in the first Hellraiser are muddled but clarified in the second movie. In the novella, they're referred to as "theologians," so there's definitely a religious streak in their make-up. Add that all together and you get a bunch of religious freaks that like what they do and try to collect souls through their little boxes and such.
post #8 of 39
I don't know about that, though:

Quote:
"But back to what I was saying about the work being possessed by others. After Hellraiser came Hellbound: Hellraiser II in which writer Peter Atkins and director Tony Randel took the open threads of the first movie and wove their own sequel. It wasn�t the movie I would have made, but it was immensely interesting to see how other minds and other talents dealt with the ideas; exploring avenues I hadn�t even contemplated when I first set pen to paper."
post #9 of 39
The film is surprisingly faithful to the novella it was based on. Captured the look of the Cenobites perfectly.

I am still waiting for Clive Barker's Scarlett Gospels to come out. It's got Harry D'Amour and Pinhead all in the same story.
post #10 of 39
I'm really glad you got around to catching this one Weapon. It's just damn interesting storytelling, and was definitely a very different kind of horror movie for the 80's or now for that matter. It's a personal favorite of mine and I liked Hellraiser II and parts of the endless sequels for visual reasons alone, but the first one really takes it's own approach and makes Frank the star and not Pinhead (I know people love horror icons, but that is really not the point of this film).

While it's probably Barker's best and one of the best representations of his material, I still recommend his Lord of Illusions and the adaptations of his work in Candyman and Midnight Meat Train. They all may have some problems, but I will always deal with them if the tone of the film is interesting enough to trancend them.

Nightbreed has a lot of problems, but Cronenberg as a phychokiller in a mask makes it almost worthwhile.
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
I am still waiting for Clive Barker's Scarlett Gospels to come out. It's got Harry D'Amour and Pinhead all in the same story.
I'm waiting for that too. The random comments Barker has made make it the definitive take on Pinhead and by extension the cenobites. Then again, we talking Clive "where the fuck is the third book of the art" Barker here.
post #12 of 39
Yeah, he seems to have a shitload of projects lined up. But except for the Arabat Children books nothing seems to be happening.

Not sure whats he's up to these days.
post #13 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
I don't know about that, though:
Then what do you consider canonical?
post #14 of 39
The Hellbound Heart.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I have against my better judgement even enjoyed one of the later mostly incoherent sequels, but seeing as how there's reasonable doubt on anything from Hellraiser II on, I see them mostly as cash-in horror sequels.
post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
The Hellbound Heart.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I have against my better judgement even enjoyed one of the later mostly incoherent sequels, but seeing as how there's reasonable doubt on anything from Hellraiser II on, I see them mostly as cash-in horror sequels.
Yeah, but even the Hellbound Heart, there are distinct indications that these guys are part of a religion, and any religion is trying to recruit more people into the fold. What would be the point of the little boxes then, if not to gather more people into the fold.

I get your point on the sequels, which is why I stop at Hellraiser II (though I dig 4, and it was originally based on a plot by Barker). The way I view it is sort of like Kurtz and Lucas with Empire. Yeah, Empire was largely created by other people, but Lucas was involved in and approved the concepts used by the creators, ergo it's canon. Same with Hellraiser 2. It wasn't Barker's film, but he was involved in the process that ultimately created the movie and extended the film's mythology.
post #16 of 39
Interesting to see this thread pop up now as I actually caught a little bit of HELLBOUND on pay cable last night. The first two remain two of my all-time favorite horror movies. Barker is a master of world building in the horror/dark fantasy genres, something that especially comes through in the second film, which has such a huge scope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
I am still waiting for Clive Barker's Scarlett Gospels to come out. It's got Harry D'Amour and Pinhead all in the same story.
You and me both, brother. Barker tweeted a few weeks back that the book was finally done and just needed a publisher. Which kind of blew my mind. Barker's completed his first adult horror novel in god knows how long ... and it features Pinhead and D'Amour ... and nobody has stepped forward to publish the damn thing?!?!
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
Interesting to see this thread pop up now as I actually caught a little bit of HELLBOUND on pay cable last night. The first two remain two of my all-time favorite horror movies. Barker is a master of world building in the horror/dark fantasy genres, something that especially comes through in the second film, which has such a huge scope.



You and me both, brother. Barker tweeted a few weeks back that the book was finally done and just needed a publisher. Which kind of blew my mind. Barker's completed his first adult horror novel in god knows how long ... and it features Pinhead and D'Amour ... and nobody has stepped forward to publish the damn thing?!?!
That's awesome news. And I'm sure he's just looking for the best deal before settling on a publisher.
post #18 of 39
When I first saw HELLRAISER in theaters as a teen, I really didn't know what to make of it. It was the height of the 80's horror franchises era, and it was sold as another Freddy or Jason, so I thought that was what I was getting. Being unsophisticated both intellectually and sexually, most of what the film did deliver either went over my head or just skeeved me out. I remember leaving the theater feeling disappointed. Didn't stop me and my buddies from seeing HELLBOUND though, and I remember feeling like that one delivered more on what I felt I was "promised".

Since then, I have learned to appreciate and even love HELLRAISER, and now it sits comfortably in my top ten favorite horror films. Such a unique vision. I highly recommend listening to Barker's commentary; it's interesting to hear him talk about his experiences as a first time filmmaker. It makes you wish he hadn't gotten so frustrated later with the process because I honestly feel he could have been great if he had pursued it further than he did.
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
It makes you wish he hadn't gotten so frustrated later with the process because I honestly feel he could have been great if he had pursued it further than he did.
I have this love/hate thing with Barker, because I feel you could make that same statement discussing him as a "horror writer" (as Stephen King's famous quote hoped for) and, even, as a fantasy writer (or fantastique or whatever he wants to call it). I mean, not that his contributions or influences are negligible or anything like that, but he seems like one of those writers that manages to make shockwaves without ever focusing enough to have his "masterpiece", and I say that pretty much as a former fanboy.
post #20 of 39
As time goes on, I consider II to be the stronger, definitive Hellraiser tale. The first film's psychofuck love story is good, but the second film really lowers the boom thematically. The Cenobites reverting to human when realizing how far down they'd gone in pursuit of the perfect orgasm, essentially, could've been a total disaster, but instead it's one of the most beautifully bittersweet human moments in a horror film.
post #21 of 39
Re: Hellraiser/Nightbreed Comics- i sortof remember there being a theme that the cenobites were agents of Order, and the Nightbreed as being agents of Chaos. While prolly not Canon, I always liked the way it flipped expectations about their motivations. There was even a run where the pinhead's group had to prevent a rogue cenobite team from killing key people on earth, otherwise mass random chaos would ensue- and that's not kosher.
post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post
I have this love/hate thing with Barker, because I feel you could make that same statement discussing him as a "horror writer" (as Stephen King's famous quote hoped for) and, even, as a fantasy writer (or fantastique or whatever he wants to call it). I mean, not that his contributions or influences are negligible or anything like that, but he seems like one of those writers that manages to make shockwaves without ever focusing enough to have his "masterpiece", and I say that pretty much as a former fanboy.
Pretty much true. I think he gets bored easily, and that's why we've seen him jump from horror books to more fantasy-oriented stuff to film to kids lit to painting ... and so on. And that's why fans get left hanging without a third Book of the Art, or a sequel to Galilee or Nightbreed, or whatever it is Clive promised that you're still waiting for. (And there have been lots of unfulfilled promises.)

Although IMAJICA is actually my all-time favorite novel, so I do have to go ahead and give him credit for his masterpiece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinusual View Post
Re: Hellraiser/Nightbreed Comics- i sortof remember there being a theme that the cenobites were agents of Order, and the Nightbreed as being agents of Chaos. While prolly not Canon, I always liked the way it flipped expectations about their motivations.
I quite enjoyed those old HELLRAISER comics. Still have some of them. I should dig them out one day.

I remember this one in particular where a pianist was trying to find his way to the hell/Leviathan dimension by discovering the correct string of notes. He eventually did it. The song was a tonal variant on the Lament Configuration. Neat.
post #23 of 39
I love the mythology of Barker. It feels like the next logical modern evolution from Lovecraft. You can't help but feel there's a whole 'nother plane of weirdness BEYOND his stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PragmaticPriest View Post
Nightbreed has a lot of problems, but Cronenberg as a phychokiller in a mask makes it almost worthwhile.
Unless you adore it. Which I do. It may be flawed, but it's more than "almost worthwhile" IMO.
post #24 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

If you enjoyed it, give the second film a try. It continues right where the first left off and isn't to shabby at all as far as horror sequels go. It's not quite as scary and fucked up, but it has some interesting ideas and some trippy camera work.
Truth be told, right after this movie was shown on Encore Mystery-of all channels-they showed Hellbound (zak must have watched that same showing). I didn't watch it as I wanted to talk about this movie online and also watch part of the (bad) mixed marital arts show that was taking place on the other channel. Now I'm starting to think that I should have changed my plans.

In the B-Movie Action thread, Erix stated that the second movie is like a gory R-rated footage of something like Labyrinth due to how the story is structured and the plot itself. I managed to see a few minutes of the ending-and talk about dated special effects there-and I had no idea what was going on in that bizarre-looking world but at least it looked interesting.

But anyway, yeah I do realize that most of the sequels are not really worth seeing at all and were just cash-ins, which is a shame. Sure, it's understandable why they went and dumbed it down for profit, but the original movie was pretty great for what it was.
post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
The film is surprisingly faithful to the novella it was based on. Captured the look of the Cenobites perfectly.

I am still waiting for Clive Barker's Scarlett Gospels to come out. It's got Harry D'Amour and Pinhead all in the same story.
You're forgetting Jesus.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post
DO NOT bother with any of the other films.
Yeah, no kidding. After revisting the great 1 & 2 recently, I decided to throw in 3. I haven't seen it since it first hit home vid. Totally wrong direction. Too many Judeo Christian tie-ins and stupid Cenobite replacements. Cigarette Burn Cenobite? CD Changer Cenobite? Cameraman Cenobite? Jeez. I guess anyone can join the ranks. Really cheapened the mystique here. I'm gonna give 4-8 a try... sometime. I'm in no hurry and have better things to do.
post #27 of 39
Don't.
post #28 of 39
HELLRAISER 3 is total garbage. God, how I hate camera-head and CD-changer Cenobite.

HELLRAISER 4 (or BLOODLINE) has some interesting ideas behind it, but by all accounts, the production was a disaster and it shows in the finished product (which I believe is credited to Alan Smithee). Still, I'd rather watch it again than 3.

5 and 6 (INFERNO and HELLSEEKER) are ludicrous "mind game" thrillers with the HELLRAISER mythos shoehorned in in all the wrong ways. The best part of HELLSEEKER is a deleted scene where Kirsty and Pinhead bitch at each other about all the shit that happened in the first two movies. Why it was deleted from the final film is a mystery, since without it there's no reason for Kirsty to even be in the movie. It could be any random chick and the story would remain the same.

I never watched 7 and 8 (DEADER and HELLWORLD) because they seemed like more of the same: Direct to DVD, cheaply made, tenuous ties to the mythology ... yadda, yadda.

And HELLRAISER 9 is filming right now on the cheap -- without Doug Bradley! Fuck you, Dimension.
post #29 of 39
I don't know what you guys are talking about. CD changer Cenobite is terrifying and I am shivering in fear waiting for mp3 Cenobite in part 9.
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post
I don't know what you guys are talking about. CD changer Cenobite is terrifying and I am shivering in fear waiting for mp3 Cenobite in part 9.
If they go in that direction, I want older technology, not newer.

TOASTER-HEAD CENOBITE: "Your soul belongs to us now, child. Don't dare try and --"

DING! PASTRY POPS OUT OF CENOBITE'S HEAD.

TOASTER-HEAD CENOBITE: "Uh, excuse me for a second."
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
If they go in that direction, I want older technology, not newer.

TOASTER-HEAD CENOBITE: "Your soul belongs to us now, child. Don't dare try and --"

DING! PASTRY POPS OUT OF CENOBITE'S HEAD.

TOASTER-HEAD CENOBITE: "Uh, excuse me for a second."
Have it be an ear/hand that pops up and then the Cenobite eats the ear/hand and that could totally fit in retarded part 3.
post #32 of 39
Cool that you got to see it, and liked it. I recommend quiting after part II.
Some said the effects were dated, but if by dated you mean that they didn't look like phony CGI that left you emotional unattached to the film, and that you were able to enjoy it and suspend your disbelief unlike when you see phony CGI, then I agree with you. Also besides Hellraiser I and II, and Lord of Illusions, I think Clive Barker is mostly a pretender. I tried to read his Book of Blood and it was so awful that I put it down. If you compare his writing to F. Marion Crawford, W.W. Jacobs, William Hope Hodgson, Poe, Le Fanu, or Algernon Blackwood then you will see how limited Clive's ability is. That's just my opinion though - I know many people dig his stuff. I think he got a bit lucky is all b/c his best stuff hit quite big, and then he has milked it on reputation since then. But I will always love Hellraiser. So simple, yet so effective.
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
HELLRAISER 3 is total garbage. God, how I hate camera-head and CD-changer Cenobite.

HELLRAISER 4 (or BLOODLINE) has some interesting ideas behind it, but by all accounts, the production was a disaster and it shows in the finished product (which I believe is credited to Alan Smithee). Still, I'd rather watch it again than 3.

5 and 6 (INFERNO and HELLSEEKER) are ludicrous "mind game" thrillers with the HELLRAISER mythos shoehorned in in all the wrong ways. The best part of HELLSEEKER is a deleted scene where Kirsty and Pinhead bitch at each other about all the shit that happened in the first two movies. Why it was deleted from the final film is a mystery, since without it there's no reason for Kirsty to even be in the movie. It could be any random chick and the story would remain the same.

I never watched 7 and 8 (DEADER and HELLWORLD) because they seemed like more of the same: Direct to DVD, cheaply made, tenuous ties to the mythology ... yadda, yadda.

And HELLRAISER 9 is filming right now on the cheap -- without Doug Bradley! Fuck you, Dimension.
You can find that deleted scene here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tLxQakYK4.

Pinhead needs to lay off the double burritos.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildoubt View Post
Pinhead needs to lay off the double burritos.
Yeah, that leather's being stretched and pulled even worse than a chained-up Frank.
post #35 of 39
It bothers me that by the later movies Pinhead and the Cenobites are relegated to simple demon archetypes, considering the first two movies (and the comic series) take pains to distance them from Christianity. It's obvious that the first movie is a twisted genie from the lamp story, and Frank says in the second one "Dead is dead." By the fifth movie, Pinhead is basically out of an EC comic lecturing the detective character on morality.

Although I do enjoy three and four to a certain degree, I was confused by the introduction of the Princess Angelique character, and Pinhead telling her that hell had changed since her time. The Cenobites are supposed to be a new addition, because of the Lament Configuration? Dislike.

Those youtube cut scenes are illuminating, however, as to just how much Doug Bradley's voice is altered in post. Kind of like Robert Englund as Freddy. He seemed to have three voices: Englund's own creepy pedophile rasp ("Always room for more" in Dream Warriors), a deep growl ("I'm gonna kill you slow" in the first one) and a big, boisterous gameshow voice ("It's a boy!" in Dream Child).
post #36 of 39
Kari Wuhrer isn't bad in VII. VIII was advertised as Hellraiser: Hell Online but in fact the internet stuff is just an invitation to a party... where hell is unleashed. Unremarkable dtv hell.

The bad news is that Doug Bradley recently said no to a ninth Hellraiser project that was to be filmed in only a handful of days. They did it to not lose the rights. So there's a ninth Hellraiser with a new Pinhead coming up that very likely has the looks and quality of an Asylum production.
post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
Those youtube cut scenes are illuminating, however, as to just how much Doug Bradley's voice is altered in post.
It's been awhile, but if memory serves, they actually stopped altering his voice for entire movies later in the series. In part 6, he sounds nothing like he does in part 1. Of course, ol' Pinhead's also barely showing up by that point. But it's just one more reason the films grow increasingly shitty.
post #38 of 39
From Barker on Twitter today:

LA is all rumour and hype and I no longer know what to believe.People have been asking me about the status of two seperate Hellraiser pix...

..one a re-make of the first film,which I would be interested in writing and directing.The other is reputedly being made to hold on to...

.. the underlying rights.I can confirrm nor deny none of this .Can anyone? It really would be nice to know if somewhere there's ...

...a producer who dreams he is a Cenobite,or a producer who dreams he is a man.

Interesting that he'd be interested in not only writing but directing a remake of the first film. Also kind of funny (and sad at the same time) that he's ridiculously out of the loop on the Bradley-less sequel they're making now to keep the rights.
post #39 of 39
Barker says a lot of stuff. Of about a tenth of it is true.
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