Religious persecution in Manhattan - Page 2

That's due to the Bush oil days - wouldn't do to insult all those family friends.

I'm really beginning to love the whole "I believe in freedom of religion but fuck those mooslims" attitude permeating from people who should really know better coming out of the states after all this nonsense.

Looks like the Repugnicans are getting some serious mileage out of this now...

Obama's mosque support hurts Democrats


How is no one other than seemingly Jon Stewart calling 'bullshit' on this xenophobic nonsense in the US media or political spheres right now?!? Is the US pretty much finished with the better angels of it's nature at this point?

It's seem America's "occasional descents into widespread madness" (to borrow a paraphrase) are occurring at an increasing frequency.

It just doesn't stop! There's always some really stupid thing a big chunk of Americans are using to prove themselves bigots and/or cowards and/or fools. I saw a sign on TV today; No 9-11 Victory Mosque! Someone was interested enough to go outside and make their voice heard, but not interested enough to find out anything about what they're mad about. It's like watching a 4,583-ring circus! It just doesn't stop!

And amplitude. Consider Glenn Beck.

The Dems are getting swiftboated with bullshit fabricated from nothing again. And still they have no idea how to deal with it.

THIS.

Seriously... why is this doing so much damage? I don't have millions of dollars, friends in every TV network or an extremely powerful political office from which to draw credibility, but I'm not having ANY trouble rebuffing people that start this argument up around me.

Ball = dropped.

This whole non-issue is such a disgrace.

Echoing the previous posters I am aghast that this could develop into this rampant offensive xenophobia offensive that has been unleashed in recent weeks. Whatever happened to public debate?

There is hardly a need to point out all the historical inaccuracies and blatant lies that have been spewed in regard to the community center itself, your constitution and founding fathers and the history of Cordoba to only name the most obvious.

This should not even be an issue about partisanship. After all, your constitution and the federal papers and all that only leave one, and only one, truth on the table. But obviously this is not about intellectual honesty but exploiting the sheeps for the gain of a few. I am appalled at how easy the masses can be led on their noses to act diametrally opposed to their own interests. But if you have a media and political scene that can claim "death panels", "terror babies", "ground-zero-mosque", "tax hikes when Bush tax cuts are over" and other blatant distortions of reality without even the tiniest try to stand against this lies (and make no mistake, they are nothing else), how can you even debate the future of your country in earnest.

Hell, even Obama dropped the ball big time on this one. And don´t even get me started on Harry Reid. Fear is never a good advisor. Ignoring or even selling the very foundation your nation was founded upon to score cheap votes, which won´t happen rather than alienate what´s left of decency, is such a weak policy that equals not only giving in but actively aiding demagouges. What a disappointment and disgrace. This appalling debate is pretty much an epic present for Al-Quaida and everyone that views the US as an enemy or just your typical "anti-american-sentiments". As someone that adored and defended the idea of the United States even in recent years this is coming close to be the straw that breaks the camels back. The slippery slope we entered can not end well.

I was offered a job with Reid for Senate earlier in the month but was kind of on the fence about it given that the guy proved to be a huge pussy his entire Senate career outside of the HIR debate. Part of me thought that maybe he deserved a little support and maybe that support might lead him to see the virtues of not being a complete pussy all the time.

Then, yeah, as a fucking Mormon who grew up poor in the Southwest during the post-war period, he somehow didn't have it in him to fight for the First Amendment. FUCK. THAT. GUY. So glad that I did not take that job.

The Democrats are afraid to take a stand on anything lest they upset anyone. They're tip-toeing while the Republicans are stomping around.

Pussies and assholes. My god, it truly is nothing but pussies and assholes..

How depressing.

I enjoy the various people from other countries on this board who consistently look at America and say "WTF? Seriously, WTF?"

I enjoy it because I most always agree with 'em.

Just a word that we're not all morons.

Olbermann weighed in. Pretty thorough takedown.

I have my qualms about the man — mostly his blustery attempts to be the new Murrow — but when he's on, he's on. "Terrorist chefs? Terrorist point guards??"

Truly, I can't speak for us all, but I'm almost certain we all know that. We wouldn't even bother lamenting if we didn't.

We grew up on the myths you've sold to yourselves as well remember.

My friend from Ohio came to visit NY yesterday and he asked me to take him to Ground Zero and the site of the community center to see what all the fuss was about and be more informed when he went back home to his bigoted family members and neighbors. He was basically like, "This place is a shit hole" referring to both Ground Zero and the surrounding neighborhood. This community center is a bright spot in a bleak part of town.

It is much needed space for kids and community members to gather. It's crazy how a small group of people have managed to turn this into a national debate. If there's one thing that has disappointed me most about Obama's tenure so far is his inability to shape the debate on any issue, whether it be health care, the economy, the gulf oil spill, or this community center. He won the presidency with his great oratory skills and it seems since taking office he's been unbelievably quiet on every issue, only speaking to do damage control (and doing it badly at that). Being bipartisan does not mean never taking a stand. It means that your stance on various issues won't be solely along party lines. You assess each issue at a time and make an informed decision based on facts and not party affiliation. Obama now backing off his stance on the community center to kowtow to opposition is unbelievably frustrating.

I could give a shit what America thinks. They don't live in a city where soldiers holding M-16s are commonplace, and people like Sarah Palin would like nothing better than to see this bastion of liberal faggotry nigger kikedom wiped off the planet.

Fuck 'em. They don't get a vote, and I'm sick and tired of people using this city as a political tool when it's convienent or makes for good theater.

That there's still just a hole in the ground where the towers once stood should be more infuriating to people than someone wanting to open a Muslim community center.

Yeah, but NYC isn't really in America. Except for...

Aah, I can't even parody the shit since I have no idea what, logically, the rethugs are even talking about.

Construction has started on the new building right?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_686099.html

...*throws hands up in air, surrenders*

Back in 2004, while I was a student at Iowa State, Rob Corddry came up for a chat and Q&A. He was talking about when he was covering the Republican convention in NYC, and he told us about when an old lady wearing an American flag hat came up to him and told him "New York should be glad this happened to this city!" She was referring to 9/11. Corddry told us he genuinely wanted to hit her.

Yeah, I'm upset that it took as long as it did to even start the rebuilding process, but there were so many mitigating factors that it was going to take a while, regardless. Nobody was going to just turn over some of the most valuable real-estate in the world.

That being said, I don't know if you've seen pictures lately, but you'd be surprised at how fast building is progressing. It's more than a hole in the ground: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:On...el_7-28-10.JPG

Also, fun wiki fact!

Uh, it is still a big hole in the ground. There are no structures built yet. What you see in that picture are cranes and material that will be used to build structures. And despite that photo being dated 2009, as of yesterday Ground Zero looks exactly the same.

Hahaha I'm a dumbass. This is what I get for coming out of retirement.

I haven't been down there in months, and maybe it's because I'm not by it every day, but the last time I was, the construction seemed like it was progressing, and you could definitely see the skeleton of One World Trade Center.

But yeah, the fact that it won't officially open until more than a decade after the attacks is ridiculous.

This isn't just happening in New York.

About 10 miles from where I grew up:

http://www.westkentuckystar.com/News...ue-in-Mayfield

And about 20 minutes from where I live now

http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=12670386


This stuff is happening all over America and there's no convenient 9/11 excuse to trot out as a bullshit defense. The American People need something to channel and focus their rage away from the real problems facing this country and evil Mooslems (and it helps that a black man with a Mooslem-sounding name sits in the big boy chair looking like a do nothing) and immigrants are just the scapegoat du jour.

My biggest fear is that we are heading down a road that's going to lead someplace that nobody wants to end up.

Wait, they found the Black Rock at the WTC?

Yeah, most of the people I argue with this about tend to ignore that point when I bring it up. Just like Obama's birth certificate and "secret Muslim" background, it's just a convenient cloak for, "We don't approve because these people are brown."

It seems all sorts of people are protesting the community center. Two Christian Arabic speaking Egyptian men were at a protest, and I imagine that you can guess what happened.

On This Ground, Zero Tolerance

Yeah, man... fuck brown people.

This is really weird. If it's a few blocks away who knows, maybe it is much ado about nothing. I can definitely see where building it at the proposed memorial site that was supposed to be where one of the towers stood wouldn't be cool. Then again, I think WTC 1 and 2 ought to built exactly the same with one extra story on each one just as a middle finger to the poeple that perpetrated 9/11. I'm not sure utilizing what, to my understanding, is valuable financial sector real estate for even a gaudy memorial is a good thing.

No mosque could possibly offend the eyes and brain as much as Touchdown Jesus did. What an eyesore. Lightning was too good for Touchdown Jesus.

There is only one Touchdown Jesus and God smote that infidel for it's hubris in thinking it could take away from the glory of God's team.

Thanks, thread, for giving us the glorious fucking banner above:




"Obama's mosque?" Holy shit.

Governor of Florida? What kind of say would he have in a mosque in New York City? I don't see that being a particularly Florida or federal issue.

Just look at the ad, man. It's not just some mosque in NYC; it's the personal mosque of the President of the United States of America. Duh.

Have they started calling it Obamosque yet?

Ugh. This ad is at the top of the page now. Doesn't CHUD have say over the type of ads posted on the message board?

Huffington Post has ads like those all over, all the time. So I'm guessing no.

Every Salem needs its witches.

I will personally escort any Muslim who wishes to visit this community center through its doors and safely inside. The majority of my fellow NYCers would do the same. If some hayseed who thinks NYC should be run more like Wasilla wants to yell at me/throw crap at me while I do it, let them.

Only one of us will be able to clean ourselves via shower after the fact.

It's good to see that all of Florida's problems have been solved so that our gubernatorial candidates can focus on building permits in NYC.

It's a transparent fundraising ploy. "I"m against 'Obama's mosque'! Send me your childrens' college tuition!"

A lot of retired New Yorkers live in Florida.

You have to understand, this issue isn't about logic or what is right but about emotions. The wound that is 9/11 still hasn't closed for a great many people and you're not going to convince them otherwise.

I disagree that the mosque should be built because it is so wildly unpopular right now that nothing good could come of it. It won't unify a community or change people's emotions and the most likely result would be violence by someone who is emotionally imbalanced and with children possibly in harms way... I just don't see stubbornness as a rational reason to put people in harms way to an extremist. Use eminent domain to take over Rush Limbaugh's place and build it there.

Plenty of good will come from it. It'll show these narrow-minded fuckwits that people aren't going to let their unhinged racist paranoia intimidate them into giving up their rights.

Jesus, let's not do the right thing because it might be unpopular? That's the best you've got?

This is terrible logic.

By this same logic, the government should never have desegregated the school systems of the south, since "It won't unify a community or change people's emotions and the most likely result would be violence by someone who is emotionally imbalanced and with children possibly in harms way..."

Arguing for tolerance always incites violence. History bears this out time and again - but bowing before bullies is what cowards do.

He actually admitted he's not using logic, or even "what's right." It kind of made my brain hurt to read it.

Religious intolerance is perpetrated by all people. Ugliness isn't monopolized by any particular creed, party, or belief system. Yeah, this particular issue is an ugly one.
Surely you mean everyone everywhere, right? Cause I see this ^ all over the boards. I could probably count on one hand the MB members that actually speak up about their religious affiliations round here.

Hey, holy shit! A compilation of actual conservatives with a smidgen of sense (including Pat Buchanan?!). However, I'm not sure they actually support the mosque, but hey, it's a start:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0....html?ir=Media

ETA: He doesn't explicitly say the words, but it sure sounds like Scarborough actually supports the mosque.

Hip, hip hooray! Here is to the tyranny of majority!

Like those stubborn black people who wanted to go to nice schools and ride in the front of the bus. If only they were more considerate!

Well Maureen Dowd's sinking the boot into Obama over this this morning. Unfortunately I can't say I disagree with her take...

Obama turns tail and flees in the face of mosque madness


I had such deeply felt hopes for your current president. I dreamed of a new FDR. Yet in my quieter more cynical moments I had nightmares of a modern Jimmy Carter.

It seems you poor bastards got the latter. 'Heart breaking' just doesn't cover it really.

You can't change Washington.



Washington changes you.

That does seem to be the depressing reality Pomp tis true - and when you see how utterly broken Washington has become it really makes me weep for the future of your nation.