TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA REBOOT: HEROES IN A HALF-ASS - Page 3

JacknifeJohnny, If that is addressed to me, no. I am excited for the next...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle film, game, etc...whenever.

COWABUNGA! Apparantly, there are now over...100 reasons, to post about the future of the...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

This picture is creeping me out. They look like they belong in furry porn. Maybe it's their serious as hell faces mixed with bright colored ninja scarfs.

...and sorry, no offense to the artist meant. It is certainly very skillfully rendered.

p.s. I dig your Deviant pics Tigeroovy

I disagree. I think adults looked down on kids when it came to television entertainment from the inception of TV through most of the 80s, and as soon as they removed laws prohibiting companies from using cartoons for advertising toys things got worse. '80s cartoons were about selling toys, lame MacGuffins, and repetative story elements. Modern cartoons are so much better on the whole, even the stuff aimed at little kids. Nostalgia is just fine, but watch the new show, especially the 2nd-4th seasons, and tell me with a straight face it isn't much better storytelling than the old show.

What are we comparing it to? It was worse than any of the contemporaneous Disney afternoon shows, but I'd say it was better than a majority of the other toy-cash-in shows, like HE-MAN.

Though, I find it kind of funny that we (the two people in this thread who noted having no love for the original show series) are arguing about the exact grade of its quality.

I completely agree about modern kids shows though. We lucked out with live-action kids movies, but kids growing up in this century are experiencing a golden age of television animation.

... really? I'll admit that I don't really watch children's cartoons these days, but everything I have seen appears to be animated from the same anime-identi-kit and is loud, fast and obnoxious. Doug, Hey Arnold, Rocko's Modern Life ETC, I've yet to find a show half as good as those. I look at Nickelodeon now and it seems like a pale reflection of it's former self.

PK, I will confess that the mid/late 90's were a time when I had intentionally checked out of TV animation - in that awkward phase where I'd become too old to go with the new kids stuff and not yet old enough to objectively appreciate things again. I haven't seen the shows you mention. They could be great.

But calling today's shows "loud, fast and obnoxious" would seem to indicate that you're maybe currently in such a phase yourself.

You're absolutely correct, it's better than He-Man, Transformers, Jayce and the Wheel Warriors, Dino Riders, Fucking Super Mario Super Show etc. But that's some pretty sorry competition. I'd put it on an even keel with stuff like GI Joe, which is ironically entertaining at best. I'm comfortable comparing it to Justice League (all the other Timm shows), Avatar, Foster's Home, Invader Zim, even stuff I don't really like very much like Sponge Bob, which occasionally entertains, or stuff aimed at the wee ones like The Replacements, Phenius and Ferb, or Kids Next Door.

I watch a lot of cartoons by the way. I won't blame anyone for judging me.

Mr Miller,

The shows I mentioned all had heart, humor and (with the exception of ROCKO*), dealt with very down to earth problems that young people face.

As for my characterization of modern cartoons.. I admit that I really have put no effort into discovering them. They *could* be great, however, what I have seen often looks like it was animated on the cheap in a Korean animation studio, and it's hard to tell the various shows apart. They seem to all have an anime aesthetic which I really just do not like, and they seem focused on loud action stuff and not characters. It could just be nostalgia on my part, but I feel like the scope of kids shows, what they can be about, has been narrowed in the same way that Hollywood has been focusing on toy adaptations and theme park ride films more and more in recent years

Again, since I don't watch those shows, maybe I'm 100% wrong. My opinion is based off what I've caught while channel surfing.


*From the creator of SPONGE BOB, but I like it alot more than Sponge Bob. It was on Nick and was for "kids", but when you look back all the humor was aimed at post college 20 somethings. Rocko himself was a 20 something Wallaby who had to navigate the perils of dating and employment, ETC

Still no talk of Bay and Platinum Dunes shaping this property for public consumption huh?

Its still a bad omen.

I wonder how much creative involvement Bay will have in this. Maybe enough so I can finally relate to my "Bay raped my childhood" attitude Transformers-loving friend (the Transformers cartoon was before my time and I thought the first movie was pretty okay, aside from stupid writing/acting in a few spots).

I'm kind of the same way.. I never much cared about TRANSFORMERS (before my time, and I don't think I'd have been interested in cold emotionless robots*), and while I dislike Bay's TRANSFORMERS films, I can't claim that they wound my psyche in any way. In this case though, I really really care about TMNT. I'd like a franchise as potentially rich (both creatively and fiscally) as TMNT to get a chance to exist as something other than a frantic collection of pixels smashing into one another. I hope the action scenes stay grounded in reality, and Bay doesn't embrace the leaping and bounding action of the animated series. I know some people say the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are inherently silly, but I think an audience will only think something is silly if you allow room in your film for them to think that way. On that note, I think a "Terrapin Bourne" style approach (while for hand to hand combat keeping the focus heavy on martial arts, given their ninja training) would work best. By this I mean, embrace what is unique about them as turtles, but also keep it within the bounds of plausible reality. A giant turtle may be capable of feats that a human is not (stopping a sword or shiv with it's shell, for instance), but they are still big and heavy and it would be physically impossible for one to jump two, three times it's height (the way the ones in the cartoon do). The turtles could do realistic ninja maneuvers, deft and quick and unwired stunts (Tony Jaa style), and engage in death defying parkour (an activity greatly enhanced by the shell, which can be used for rolling and sliding). Additionally, they may be mutant, but they have no super powers to speak of. They have only their training, strength, and shells to rely on. Bay should keep the action fast, but the camera pulled back to show better showcase the skill and style of each turtle and how they fight together. Like NINJA ASSASSIN, in a way (a film I enjoyed, I liked how it brought in the Interpol aspect of the story, so we kind of "discovered" the world of the ninjas along with the interpol agent). I think the same could be done for April O'Neils discovery of the turtles)



IMHO, there is no need to always be over the top with action every minute. They are *ninjas*, they sneak and chase in silence, and to make their job harder they are in a city of 8 million people who would freak out if they ever spotted a TMNT. That is another way I see the Bourne style coming into play, the Turtles having to act stealthily and quickly, thinking on their feet to fight a ninja war with The Foot in the midst of a hostile urban environment.

The best part about this approach? It's relatively cheap compared to a totally effects heavy version with fantastical elements and creatures ETC. It can be shot with suit actors ETC.

*Not slamming TRANSFORMERS, just saying I'm more naturally drawn to amphibians and aquatic reptiles than giant robots

I'm still waiting for my Bucky O'Hare live action movie dammit

That reminds me, anyone else love Usagi Yojimbo? I think the episode that introduced him was one of the better ones of the 80s-90s series. I wonder if he'd work well in a live action movie.

I'm actually coming around to Kate's ridiculous super-realistic version:




Seriously, though, my biggest hope for his movie is that it's at least as good as TMNT (which I thought was pretty good for the most part) but is a hard PG-13. It takes place in 1985. They all have red bandanas like they're supposed to. That's all I expect, and that's not asking a lot, I think, even it is Platinum Dunes.

If I could get my way, I'd have them completely ignore the cartoon series. None of this "DUUUUUUDE" "RADICAAAAL!" "COOOOWABUUUNGAAA!" "HOLD THE ANCHOVIES!" "TURTLE POWER!!" bullshit.

Also, after thinking about it, I'd cast Kevin Durand as Casey Jones

That photo is amazing. I think it would be fun/adorable if a Turtle (Mike, perhaps?) kept a pet turtle in a terrarium and tried to train him to be a ninja, which would meet with obvious but hilarious failure. That would be a good way to include humor in the film, but keep it based in the reality of the characters. (IMHO, it would be kind of bitter sweet humor because try as he might, there is no way to train up another TMNT/"Brother".. they are the only ones of their kind)

I think that by using their shells to deflect damage, you can have incredibly hard hitting combat but keep the coveted PG13. Imagine an "OLD BOY" style corridor fight with Raphael, fighting Foot soldiers with his Sais when suddenly he takes a claw hammer to the shell. It can get wrenched out (along with bits of shell ), only to have Ralph reenter the fray with renewed vigor!

While I think it would be cool to make it a period peace, I think there are alot of thematically rich present day anxieties and concerns that it would be a missed oppertunity not to set it in modern day NYC. 80s New York may have been a hell hole, but it was quite frankly probably a welcome haven to a TMNT looking to hide out. Gentrified NYC though, post 9/11, would be a very difficult place for a giant turtle to remain undetected. Splinter would have to train his Ninja Clan to operate much like a terror cell, where any contact with the outside world (April O'Neil included) is considered a risk to the overall operation. Remember, they only become heroes by accident (and because they have good hearts). Their war is with The Foot, and The Foot happens to be in NYC. Their goal at first should be the waging of that war in secret, not random violent crime prevention.

Also, it would be a shame to lose cell phones and stuff (and yes, payphones do offer alot of neat dramatic oppertunities, but still), I can picture a million different "Bourne" style scenes involving the Turtle finding power of modern tech



Why on earth wouldn't they have headbands? What would make you think they could be left out? I agree, the headbands would be critical
Well, I agree, it shouldn't be constant, but the surfer slang they've use is an attribute of their personalities that they've deliberately adopted. It's a part of human culture that they've embraced as a way of defining their own individuality. They may be mutants and lead secretive lives of ninja solitude, but with each-other they try to enjoy themselves and act more like fratboys than ninja killers. It's how they retain their sanity and avoid the depression that would no doubt result from living in the sewer alone. The Pizza and the slang need to be retained, but I agree that it shouldn't be a constant presence in every scene. BTW, the Turtles always did know when to get serious, which was usually when their sensei was giving words of wisdom. They're not goofy by nature, they just like to kid around in their down time (and occasionally when fighting as a team)

PS Your turtle picture reminded me of something I was going to say before, which was that I'd hope they don't just make them all brown and lumpy like toads*. Different kinds of turtles all have different looking skin, so I'd appreciate seeing some mottled color variation ETC on the turtles. They've always been slightly different colors (Don is a darker brown green, where as Mike is a more of a greeny green), but I'd want to take that to the next level a bit. Don't go overboard though, there is no need to make them look like Vietnamese Box Turtles or something, just make them different enough that you can tell them apart at night. It's perfectly plausible that they all mutated from slightly different species of turtle, so I don't think that's *too* much of a stretch

PPS I've been thinking over the Casey Jones casting dilemma, not sure who would be best yet. Lemme get back to you on that



Personally, I don't think it would work.

*stereotypical toads, at least.

I never said that they shouldn't have bandanas. I just said that they should all have the original red bandana (I edited the post, I originally had 'Read' headbands). I hate the rainbow bandanas, and you'd have to be a complete idiot not to recognize each individual character.


Disagree. The pizza and surfer slang (in NEW YORK?!) never once showed up in the comics until the cartoon took off and the comics are a much better for it. Have you seen Secret of the Ooz? It's the exact opposite of what I'd want to see.


I really think you're taking the franchise much too seriously. The version I think you're seeing in your head would be so far removed from the original content that it'd be pointless. "Let's take the Ninja Turtles from the orignal movies and basically stick them in The Bourne Knight" . Frankly, that's not the Ninja Turtles. TMNT is so connected to the 80's and it's such a weird idea it almost wouldn't work in a modern setting, I think. At least the one you'd want.

EDIT: I'd also recommend you read the original comics. I think you'd get a kick out of them. I don't think they have a decent collection outside of "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Book I" (124 pages) and "Book II" (126 pages) that came out in '86. I still have my 5th printings from '89. And they're awesome. I'm actually reading them right now... at work... All this TMNT talk has put me in the mood for some new turtle action. Also that tv movie Turtles forever was pretty cool.

Ah, I clicked "reply" before I saw "Read" change to "red". IMHO, the different colors are key to my interpretation of the TMNT. Each color reflects their personality. Blue is cool, calm, the color of leadership. Red is anger, war, orange is joy and the good things in life, and purple is emotion and contemplation. The Foot all dress alike, the turtles wear colors because they fight as individuals working together towards a common goal.

Plus, it allows them to all have a "uniform" yet still each wear a distinctive element of Ninja garb that's unique to them.

I have seen SOTO, and I did say that I'd drop most of that kind of dialog from most scenes, I just wouldn't cut it entirely. IMHO, it's key to the character of the turtles, but then again I had a different entry point to the series than you did


As for incongruous surfer dialog in NYC, I've always assumed that the because of their mutations, the TMNT are spectacularly long lived (like giant tortoises, 200 years life span), you could explain stuff like "Cowabunga" by saying that they've only recently come of age because they grow slowly, but they grew up with that kind of slang in the 1980s. They're teenagers in turtle years, not people years

I guess we will have to just agree to disagree. I feel like my vision for the series stays true to the spirit of TMNT while adapting it to succeed in the modern box office environment. I don't think a film about mutated turtles is so strange it couldn't work in a post BP oil spill America. We just don't see eye to eye on that

As for "removed from the original content", you want to cut pizza and cowabunga. I think that just needs to be said. For most TMNT fans, pizza is the original favorite food of the Ninja Turtles. Plus you know they're going to product placement it anyway with some pizza chain, so it's a moot point). In the original film, Dominos paid for that honor. I'm sure the pizza people are already starting up a bidding war


PS More insight on the possibilities of the modern approach: I think the people who invented the ooze could contract the Foot, in order to 'redact' the turtles. The very existence of a "mutant ninja turtle" would be proof of illegal chemical dumping and a multibillion dollar corporation like Monsanto would want that covered up at all costs (MICHAEL CLAYTON style), plus the Foot's leader obviously has a very personal reason to stop the TMNT. Meanwhile the CIA is also working with the Foot (unaware of the ooze situation) because the Foot is providing actionable intel on terror stuff here in America and abroad (via their secret ninja connections over seas), in exchange the CIA turns a blind eye to the ninja treachery of the Foot so long as they keep a low profile. The foot could try to frame the turtles as some sort of terrorist or foreign agents (We recently learned about the real life Russian sleeper spies in the US, so might some paranoid 1% doctrine four star desk jocky at the Pentagon believe Shredder's tale of an old soviet genetically engineered super squad operating in NYC in secret?), and trick the CIA into fighting their war for them.

All sorts of good options for plot points, you could take those three basic power groups (CIA, Corporation, and Foot) and have them working at fascinating cross purposes

EDIT: Do you at least like my idea about Mike hopelessly trying to get a real turtle to excel at ninja training? He could give it a little outfit like in your image

If Imagi ever gets to make another animated Turtles flick, then yeah that sort of gag I can get behind.

But that sort of goofiness is what I'd like them to get away from for a live action picture.

Fair enough, I'm trying to do the same thing I'm just goofiness reduction from the opposite direction -- trying to remove the goofiness from the story but not the turtles themselves (Though they no doubt would have been hardened by their experiences over the years).

Indeed, she would! That's a call and a half.

Just was doing some thinking about turtles last night and had some ideas for this film!

Turtles.. that are ninjas. It's not the first profession that comes to mind when you picture a seven foot tall mutant terrapin. Why then have these mutant reptiles dedicated themselves to ninjutsu? Well, Splinter raised them to avenge the murder of his master, for one. They've been raised as purpose bred assassins from moment one since their 'rebirth' via mutagen

It's more than that though. They're like classic movie monsters. Their very nature is fearsome. They have crushing razor sharp beaks, and titanically powerful limbs. Hard shells and leathery green/brown skin. Their strict dedication to an ascetic life lived in the sewers, isolated from the rest of society, as well as their mastery of the art of ninjutsu and the Bushido (along with other eastern philosophy) is about their eternal struggle to control their base reptile nature and suppress those "reptile brain" impulses. They seek to overcome their biology with philosophy, to replace the amoral animal inside them with zen philosophy and a respect for friendship. They are mutant turtles, but through dedication to the martial arts, they becomes more than the sum of their parts, and are able to earn their 'humanity'

With that said, the audience should be able to feel the inherent conflict of a ninja turtle's existence from a single glance at their physical form. They are towering, ox strong reptile monsters, yet they use their grasping hands to delicately and precisely wield the tools of Ninjitsu. They could grapple a foot soldier and break him like a bundle of sticks, but they pride themselves on economy of movement and perfection of the martial arts. Their very appearance should make plain the war for the soul that exists inside the turtles, the struggle between the savage reptile berzerker, and the zen/renaissance warrior-philosopher. I have therefore come to the conclusion that the classic TMNT visage of the wide open eyes and smiling mouth should be cast aside in favor of a more accurate -- and indeed terrifying -- giant turtle appearance

Essentially, picture Razor from TMNT2:TSOTO combined with a traditional ninja turtle face and then mix in some of the "no neck" look from the recent DARK SEID concept art that ran with a recent SM article

There should be moments in the combat, where as part of a character's arc, he breaks away from his ninja training and reverts to a demented, mindless rampage mid combat. Perhaps this should involve Ralph, as he's always been the Turtle who has struggled the most to apply himself to Splinter's tutelage

Anyway, I am picturing a climatic moment in the midst of a giant ninja battle against the FOOT or a SWAT team, where after seeing either his friends or Splinter injured, Raphael loses his cool and his grip on his humanity, and begins to unleash the full breadth of his unrestrained fury upon his foes. He'd pick up a FOOT soldier with both arms, lifting him high into the air. The enemy, suddenly terrified of his unhinged opponent, screams pitifully as Ralph, mad with blood lust, brings his opponent's head up to his maw and crushes his skull between his jaws with a sickening crunch


Going over the edge like that would be something that character had to grapple with for the rest of the film, as he struggled to regain his center and remember why the TMNT adopt human traits in the first place

He'd have saved his friends, but compromised the ninja principals he was taught to value above all else in the process

Anyway, that's my idea for adding pathos to TMNT
EDIT: BTW, some turtles can look more friendly than others. Leo could be a mutant Box Turtle, and the differences in species could be used to highlight different aspects of their personalities

I Just... holy fuck.

Wasn't Ninja Turtles originally a parody of the grim and gritty comics of the time? I mean, I know the cartoon was toned down, but jeez, that's going pretty far in the opposite direction.

And, how violent are non-mutant turtles anyway?

Yeah, they were total Frank Miller riffs at the start, which is why I find it so funny that some people always refer to the comics as dark and gritty, when the whole thing was meant as a joke - it's all there in the title, folks.

The comics do have some worth, though, as they quickly started incorporating a lot of awesome/weird sci-fi elements (several of which made it to the cartoons) that I'd love to see on the big screen.

Honestly, when it comes to tone, I think the original movie handled it best. The turtles can be serious, but with a comic touch. Not grim 'n gritty.

Man, I hope the reboot has them as alien wrestlers. Or is that not dark enough? Alien gladiators?

Since turtles are naturally slow, every fight should be like bullet time, but with their foes moving at regular speed. Wouldn't that make the TMNT vulnerable to atack, you ask. That's where the shells come in. Natural body armor. Plus the mutagen should make their neck skin look even more scrotum-y. They are mutants after all.

Having finally taken the time to read some of the early comics, Coombs has it completely right, the turtles were parody from the beginning.

You know, if you look at Kate's version of the Ninja Turtles as satire of Nolan-style super serious and gritty superhero films then I'd say she's actually being pretty true to the spirit of the originals.

If you read the previous two pages of this thread, you'll see that I definitely want to keep the humor and pizza loving attitude intact, I just have been putting alot of thought into the TMNT and turtles in general lately, and it occurred to me that as far as we've seen the TMNT depicted on screen before, the characterization usually focuses on the TEENAGE and NINJA aspects to the exclusion of stark reality that these characters are mutated turtles. We see them solely as they relate to each other, which is as a normal family unit with Splinter as the Sensei. Their connection to the larger world outside the sewer consists entirely of April O'Neil and miscreants like Casey Jones, people predisposed to accept these TMNT on their own terms and who readily refer to them by their given names

When "rebooting" this concept for The New Millennium though, you are going to be putting these characters before a general audience that has not really had the TMNT at the forefront of pop culture for over 20 years. People have stated in this very thread that the basic concept of the TMNT is "silly", and so I think for any reboot it's critical to tackle the outlandish nature of our protagonists head on and ask the questions the audience would ask. What would life *really* be like to be a giant turtle in modern day New York? How could it be possible for these creatures to engage in a covert blood feud with a ninja clan that leads a criminal empire in a post 9/11 world? What drives a mutant terrapin to adopt such specific affectations of human behavior (surfer slang, pizza) in order to define it's sense of self and it's moral code? There have never been mutant turtles before in all of history. There is no TMNT "culture" for them to conform to or look to as a guide as to how to lead their lives. They only have names because Splinter adopted them in a last ditch effort to realize his vengeance. What would have become of them, had he not brought the ideals of the renaissance and the discipline of clandestine martial arts to their lives? Tragically, I imagine they'd live out their days in the sewer as mindless monsters, becoming battle scared and blood crazed after numerous encounters with giant alligators and NYPD squads. They'd be intelligent, but savage and amoral. The reptile bran would take over and they'd be no different than the Tokka, Razar or Vanilla Ice

I think the reboot can't shy away from depicting the base, feral nature of these tragic, walking abominations. They might talk and high five and seem like cool "dudes", but we need to be made aware of their awesome physical strength and potential for horrific violence. This is what makes their decision to fight as a team (using coordinated and calculated martial artistry to down foes with a maximum economy of motion) so powerful -- and admirable. It would be so easy for them to be less than they are, but they strive to better themselves in spite of everything -- in the face of their own DNA!

They could win through brute force alone, but they better themselves by dedicating their lives to perfection in all things. This is Splinters great gift to them, their sense of self worth. The fact he gave them names is probably the single most significant event in their lives. Splinter was, as far as my understanding goes, already fully mutated and capable of speech by the time the TMNT were being forcibly evolved via the OOZE. Splinter was in hiding, and on the run. He could have trained them as monster hitmen, emotionless killers to wage war on the foot at his command. Instead he attempts to enlighten them about the ideals for which they fight, and why their struggle against the forces of dark ninjutsu will come to define them

The manner and style through which the turtles approach ninja combat can be used to help tell the story (a concept familiar to anyone who has ever seen a martial arts film). How they fight as a team, and individuals, can say just as much about their characters as five pages of expositionary dialog could ever hope to. People who go to this movie will either go in knowing about the TMNT or they will go in clueless. How they see these action heroes behave *in action* will be key to communicating the essence of these characters to the public at large

Personally, I'd have a very practical, gritty, yet elegantly shot approach to most of the team based ninja action. Picture the ninja attack in LAST SAMURAI meets BOURNE. Quick, brutal, but efficient and clean

To contrast this, I think it's critical to have a sequence or scene in the film where the movie forces to look at the potential of our heroes to be monsters. You need to have that sudden turn where the humor drops away and all at once we're taken aback with fear by the terrible specter of a turtle unhinged. We need to have a moment were we see a TMNT as no longer a character, a hero... but a creature

Some people have suggested this is too extreme for a TMNT film, that the violence is too much

1) I have read on CRACKED.COM about early TMNT comics, and they were pretty grim. It is true to the spirit of Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman that the TMNT shall from time to time exhibit dispassionate displays of cruelty. They adhere to the Bushido code and defeated enemies are unworthy or mercy, as far as Ralph, Leo, Mike and Don are concerned. This is what Splinter has taught them, because this is the only way they can survive. Theirs is a world of ninja violence, and they have to adapt to survive, and go much further than that if they ever hope to avenge Splinter's master



2) Some have suggested that the action I have laid out here is incongruous with real life turtle behavior. I can only say that I encountered a Snapping turtle at Sleepaway Camp back in the day, and it was pretty feisty and grabbed someone's shoe who had been feeding it raw hot dogs and potato chips. Turtles can move fast when they want to, and they have the tools to inflict a fatal strike if the situation calls for it. This is why I am all about 'economy of motion' in the action scenes. I have been playing the videogame ASSASSINS CREED 2.5 B and in that game the main character's preferred method of dispatching foes is to wait for them to attack, and then use that as an opening for a devastating counter strike. This is almost exactly how a Snapping Turtle lures in it's prey (deploying it's tongue as a ruse to fool fish there is a worm). I think if you used suit performers, you could get some brutal hand-to-hand / ninja sais-to-hand encounters using this counter attack based method. It's going to be difficult for a turtle that weighs probably a ton and a half to jump around like Spiderman in the midst of an action scene*. However, it would be easy for one to instantly, cinematically and brutally cripple a FOOT Soldier opponent by deploying Tony Jaa style limb disablement based counter with the full force of it's weight and bulk. I think you could probably go pretty far with the violence and keep a PG13, given the "fantasy" trappings of the narrative. Savage hand to hand combat of this type will help to distinguish the turtles from other Wire Fu super heroes. I feel like there is no way to realistically tell this story without getting into the fact that the very existance of the TMNT will lead to violence, with the FOOT, the Shredder and the outside world. Let's be frank: they are not Planeteers (though that is an admirable calling, no doubt), they're ninjas

Last but not least, after the success of AVATAR I think there is no excuse not to make the Turtles 7, 8, 9 or even 10 feet tall. They need to be of a height that they won't have to bend over to fight normal sized humans, but they should exist on a scale so inhuman that the very idea of facing one would seem like suicide.. or to a ninja, perhaps *a good death* (I think it's key for the audience to at least be able to respect the fact that the FOOT are bound by Bushido, where as various other corporate/government forces that may face the turtles are not). Their craniums should be huge, like two old style iMacs stuck together. Their faces can look pensive, and thoughtful, and could emote clearly during dialog scenes, but when the film calls for it you can light them from underneath, color time with a blue filter, slick it's face in black looking blood and they'd look like a something out of Del Torro helmed JURASSIC PARK flick. I have a mental image of a TMNT stooped over in a labyrinthine sewer like the one in BLADE 2, it's eyes rolling back white like the shark in JAWS as it prepares to munch on a FOOT Soldier's noggin, and it both cracks me up and awes me with how crazy awesome it would be. That is why I go to the movies


BTW

That's not to say there should not be humor and warmth! As previously stated, it would be great if Mike could have a little turtle friend in a terrarium back at the Sewer HQ, and April should add some much needed humanity and conviviality to the film. The turtles will have a sense of humor, and it will be fun to spend time in their company, it's just that their struggle with The Shredder will never be treated as anything other than a matter of life and death, honor and dishonor. By combining the humor with the serious stuff, you make the jokes funnier and the action harder hitting



(just MHO)

*not that they can't do parkour and limited flips ETC

Since this thread got brought up today, I thought it might be of interest to some that today's Teefury shirt is related to the Turtles.

Unfortunately, nobody's head is getting bit off on it.

heh nice. could have used a better shredder pic but whatevs.


also, I think Kates put more thought into a Turtle movie then everyone involved in all the previous movies put together

Has anyone considered the paradox of them being called ninjas rather than samurai? Now maybe I'm totally off because I'm basing this on what I learned in "Batman: The Animated Series", but I thought samurai are the ones who use martial arts honorably, while ninja are the more sneaky, deceptive, immoral martial artists.

At least that's what the episodes about Batman's training in martial arts say. Trying to reconcile this idea with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the only explanation I could come up with is that "samurai" just has too many syllables to be a part of what they're called. It makes sense from an aesthetic point of view, but just to be a nitpick/play devil's advocate, if they're good guys, shouldn't they technically be called samurai?

I take that as a sincere compliment given the fact that many in this thread have stated that they found the first TMNT movie to be a worthwhile film in it's own right

Precisely. I am so glad you point this out. Ninjas can be rogue agents or Samurai who have fallen or failed in whatever noble purpose they had (protecting a Samurai lord ETC), and have formed a clan for the purposes of treacherous and dangerous acts, either as part of a blood feud or a more traditional for profit ultra secret mercenary force

Our Ninja turtles study under Splinter, who is essentially a Ronin having failed to protect his master from the FOOT and Shredder. Now in exile and dishonored, he has to redeem himself by raising the turtles as a force for moral good, as well as a ninja clan dedicated to the eradication of the FOOT in order to avenge his Master

Essentially Samurai are an institutionalized honorable order of warriors/feudal lords. Ninjas are a rogue force fighting for their own private reasons

Now.. Splinter does endeavor to govern his ninja clan by the Bushido code that defined his Master's life. That is admirable. I must say though that while the Shredder himself is a grossly dishonorable individual, I think the average FOOT soldier would at least have some appreciation for certain basic principals of Bushido and to some degree would be bound by them (at least when facing another ninja), even if they were not part of the Samurai high class clique. Honor in battle would be a shared virtue between the turtles and FOOT, I have to imagine, given the cultural forces that shaped Ninja and Samurai alike

(could this lead to a climactic moment where the FOOT turns on Shredder? Since the FOOT's masters only fight for profit and not a legitimate cause? who knows! )



With that said though, the turtles are ninjas and as such have no compunctions abput practicing the art of ninjutsu. Every moment of their lives since their 'rebirth' they have lived in exile, hunted by a fanatical enemy that would not hesitate to end their existence swiftly and with ruthless violence. This is the price they pay for their salvation at the hands of Splinter. He saved them from the fate of being doomed to wander the sewers eating mice and garbage, but through their connection to their sensei they have made themselves the target of a vast and diabolically powerful criminal network. The TMNT fight for the honor of a sensei in disgrace, and until the Shredder is killed that will never change. They will stop at nothing to realize their ultimate goals and bring about the end of the FOOT. That is not the mission of the Samurai (who have a more broadly defined peace keeping role), that is the way of the ninja

EDIT: As for "sneaky deceptive tactics", they are absolutely part and parcel of ninjutsu and the only way the TMNT could realistically hope to take on the FOOT. There four TMNT an army of ninjas (not to mention various governmental and corporate forces). They need every advantage available to them, including darkness, shadow and fear itself

EDIT: BTW, I forget if this was already mentioned in this thread, but I have decided upon my pick for Casey Jones: ELIAS KOTEAS

EDIT It was mentioned! Good for that poster. It's note perfect casting and I see no reason he shouldn't retain the role. It makes sense that Jones would be older, because as I said before the turtles are probably in their 40s in human years

Maybe, but then these guys would have to change their names too...

Kate I would like to submit some concept art for your Ninja Turtles reboot. I feel it really represents the mature and serious direction you have in mind for this franchise.

Well, The...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, did appear in the...80's. Ninja, not Samurai, were all the rage then. If Sho Kosugi and his contemporaries, starred in, Samurai films, then the TMNT, would have become...The Teenage Mutant Samurai Turtles. The Turtles were also a parody of, Daredevil, and he battled the...Hand Ninja Clan.

Of course, Elias Koteas, is a little too old now for Casey Jones. I could see that like the...Shaft remake, the new Casey could be the original's, nephew. I would cast...Scott Adkins as the new...Mr. Jones! He could be of course from...Indiana!

I've been reading this thread with my head cocked to the side like a confused terrier.

Haha, thanks JL. I said seven feet tall though, not seven hundred!
This is good information to have! Thank you, Mr Fleed

I'd definitely be down for Jones bringing a younger hockey enthusiast in on the TMNT secret, I just would want Koteas to have larger role than ROUNDTREE in SHAFT REDUX

Well I tried to explain my reasoning and ideas as best I know how, and put a good deal time, energy and heart into sharing them with you. Can't do much more than that