TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA REBOOT: HEROES IN A HALF-ASS - Page 2

I have a lot of nostalgic love for the turtles (too much, really) but I question why anyone would be looking for a dark and mature take on the characters. The concept is really too absurd to ever be taken seriously. Even in the original comics, which I always see people describing as dark and bloody, the turtles were battling inter-dimensional triceratops aliens by the fifth issue.

As far as the new film goes I doubt we'll ever get a very good Ninja Turtles film, hell the quality of the original strikes me as kind of accidental. But I have to admit I have a certain morbid curiosity to see exactly what Platinum Dunes is going to produce.

Couldn't the same be said of almost any comic book property though? And yet the fans warmly embraced Nolan's take on the BAT-verse and welcomed an end to the winking and nodding of Schumacher's campier work

I think when you have a concept that is as "out there" as TMNT, you have no choice but to play it straight. The movie can still be fun, because the turtles are wise cracking pizza eating teenagers (in turtle years, at least, which I assume means that they are actually in their 30s or 40s in human years), so there is no doubt going to be alot of humor when they interact with each other. However, their struggle against The Foot -- as well as the tragedy that lead to their mutation -- is something any TMNT reboot should take deadly seriously. (IMHO)

Alfred and Mr Wayne can still trade jokes when back in the cave, but that doesn't mean that Batman in costume should be treated as one.

EDIT: The only over the top stuff from the comic or TV show that should make their way into the new (hopefully) grim and gritty turtles film are the Technodrome (which could be explained as a secret government weapon designed to get behind enemy lines by burrowing beneath the earth) and perhaps the idea that the Technodrome at some point becomes trapped in the center of the earth, an idea that would be a good spring board for TURTLES 2

EDIT2: Krang is a fantastic character, but I don't know if I'd want his extra dimensional orgins to be part of the cinema turtle verse. You could probably explain him as a feat of biological engineering, and have him teased at the end of the first film the way the Joker was teased in BATMAN BEGINS, setting up the sequel to be the Krang V Turtle story, with Shredder perhaps either helping Krang or you could leave Shredder presumed "dead" only to have him return in T3 to close out a potential trilogy

First of all, after googling her, I'm not convinced this Rachel person isn't a man. 2ndly, you're casting is so utterly unrealistic for this property, I'm at a loss for words (Christian Bale?_.
It's truly a silly property (one for 13 year olds), I agree. But that 13 year then still knew that when ninjas poked each other with sharp weapons, blood could occur. It had this juxtaposition of ridiculous concept and Miller-style tone early on that worked IMO. It was meant to be a homage to Daredevil/Elektra and didn't wink at the audience constantly with catch phrases. It wasn't meant to sell cereal to the kindergarteners till later when the cartoon came out. Course, that's what it developed into and is mostly known for. Batman's evolved through different phases over the years and there is no one definite canon or measuring stick for adaptations, so...

It's really dumb for me to argue for this isn't it? I thought the original movie was "this close" to getting it right in hindsight. I loved it as a kid though. I'm not looking at Tarantino or Stallone levels of gore. I look at BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA as a target for tone/balance/rating/demographic.

We're hating on Rachel Maddow here? Seriously? Are you one of those guys who has to look at the blond picture of her from high school to determine her gender? Too funny in a terribly sad way dude.

But I suppose we have different tastes. I don't need a gritty and bloody TMNT. I also never ever ever want to revisit that franchise as an adult. I'm pretty sure it's one of those franchises that doesn't hold up well (though that ninja rap is killer).

Not hating at all. Don't know her. My comment was mostly for hyperbolic effect, but I just think she looks like a man in the pics I've seen during my brief research. Just an observation. April O' Neil would look more like Neil O'April. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

EDIT: Did a bit more research. Apparently, she's also a lesbian. Apologies to the female and/or lesbian Chewer community. Didn't mean to offend with my male ignorance.

I'll echo others on the board and say the first one holds up great. I really think it's one of the best kids movies from the 80's.

However, even though I loved Turtles 2: Secret of the Ooze" when I first saw it as a kid (twice in the same weekend at the theater), both it and the third Turtle film are absolute shit.

I wonder if the first one holds up more due to it being helmed as an independent film? If the new movie is just another means to sell merchandise (like the rest of the films and tv shows) then I have even less of an interest in it than I did before this news.


And somehow I don't think Rachel Maddow would even consider the April O'Neill role. Hmmm... she can continue to interview world leaders and people that affect the outcome of the world, and be seen as a (slightly biased) journalist, or..... she could be in a movie about big turtles that talk, fight, luv pizza and say "Cowabunga, Dude!"

I'll defend the original TMNT movie till my dying day. I think it hit just the right tone for my 8 year old self to love it. It was ,and is, a kids movie but it doesn't take the kids to be stupid. Characters get hurt and killed but that just made it all the more exciting. It still had the fun and the jokes but it also brought good fight scenes.
In short,I hope they shoot for the tone of the original. It wasn't too dark but also not totally goofy. I also thought it was totally awsome that Raph said Damnit and they "Killed" Shredder at the end. Oh the joys of being 8.

The original...TMNT film is...Awesome! I also love the...TMNT (07)! I also love the final episode of the...2003 series of the...TMNT, as they team up with the...80's TMNT, and the original black and white comics...TMNT! The triple team up of...TMNT, was originally supposed to get a theatrical release courtesy of...Fathom, but the negotiations fell through.

Sorry, I forgot to check on your reply. I kind of hate the Goonies, and think Karate Kid is pretty average looking back, and wouldn't consider Ghostbusters a kids film at all (or really Empire), but I'll give you TMNT and Honey I Shrunk the Kids. I think the Stuart Gordon factor ups HIStK though.

I also think you overestimate the appeal of toys these days, and I entirely disagree that the majority of kids films, especially popular ones, aren't aimed to appeal to adults (The recent CG TMNT had some really funny bits aimed DIRECTLY at the grownups in the audience). They don't really make toys for movies anymore, or they do, but they don't sell. The most popular toys are aimed at really young kids, or are actually the same old brands, like Star Wars and Transformers.

Again, I'm not picking on you, or trying to be a dick, but what kid's aimed flicks have you watched recently?

Actually I want to do a first on the Internet and say I was wrong with my original posts. I think my original attempt at logic was masked by the lack of a PG13 rating. Really those posts were on a lack of sleep.

The only films I watch that would be considered for kids are Pixar.

I still think though that the original TMNT film at least tried to entertain the adults. After that, violence shielding patents got involved.

Fair enough. I watch a lot of kids movies, and even more kids tv shows (more than I should admit), and I'm consistently surprised at how much better it is on average than mainstream grown-up stuff.

The original TMNT is great. So great. Lightning in a bottle stuff.

As I said, I think he'd supply VO work and you'd get skilled suit performers to actually portray the turtles on set. Christian Bale is no stranger to the voice acting world. Remember HOWEL'S MOVING CASTLE ?

However, I also said that it was unlikely he'd take it (as a Brit I'm not certain he'd understand the franchise, unless you had someone dedicated like Nolan pitching it to him) and so Edward Norton's voice might be cool for Raphael instead

PS Chet actors have shot films around their TV shooting schedule before, it's not unheard of. Sadly I think you're right that it won't come to pass though

I watched ten minutes of Turtles Forever on youtube and I say fuck it, make that the next live-action movie.

Or just release it as is in theaters...

I especially love how every other thing out of the '87 Turtles mouths is about pizza or some ridiculous pun. Were they really like that when I was a kid? I'm thinking so.

The old show is terrible. I've tried revisiting it.

But they have their initials on their belt buckles!!!

So for a live action movie, how about slimming down their look a bit? They don't really need the giant heads.

Are you kidding? They need to be physically imposing, and maintain a relatively accurate turtle anatomy. They're giant mutated turtles, not human terrapin hybrids


PS The belt buckle initials need to be kept as well. By putting their initials on their belts, they're reaffirming their given names, their "humanity". They are not horrible turtle monsters, but truly heroes in a half shell. The initials say to anyone who encounters a TMNT that it's more than a frightening ninja mutant, it's a person, an individual with an identity.

Like the pizza eating, the initials are part of how they always struggle to be human even though society at large would never accept them. They embrace the human in themselves (because there could be no ninja turtles without human intervention, by concocting the ooze we're just as responsible for their existence as Shredder), and strive for respect and friendship. That's what they ultimately find in their platonic friendship with April, who comes to know them not as "turtles" but as friends with names.


IMHO, TMNT is very deep

Kate, I loved the Turtles when I was a kid too, but...they turned a van into a TURTLE VAN. They are silly by definition, and should be enjoyed as spectacle.

So inter-dimensional creatures and aliens are too silly for your Ninja Turtles movie but individually initialed belt buckles are mature and deeply symbolic?

I don't know any van owners who wouldn't prefer to have a Turtle Van

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. All superheroes are pretty silly when you think about them at length. The turtles deserve a chance to be taken as seriously as Batman or Superman, and be treated with the same respect by the studios and filmmakers involved. That's my over all point I guess

EDIT @JLAssiter

I think the extra dimensional stuff has value, but I don't see a studio making a film that successfully incorporates "super natural" sci fi elements into the story while maintaining the gritty BATMAN BEGINS reboot tone I think is required to properly demonstrate the potential of TMNT to the public

I can agree to disagree, because I also want a silly Superman that fights mad scientists and dinosaurs from Dimension X, and post-Nolan a Batman that encounters vampires and Killer Crocs.

Let me put it this way: When adapted into movies, I want comic books come to life, not comic books set in real life.

Does that make sense?

I understand your perspective, and sometimes I enjoy films along that line, however I just think the Turtles are more interesting in a super realistic setting than in one with Krang as an alien. I think you can introduce Krang in the second film after having a more down to earth ninja war in the first movie. Also, Krang should be biologically engineered, and not from another dimension. That's just my take

EDIT: Frankly, when you think about it*, the turtles are the most successful new comic book characters since the 1960s/70s. The level of fame they achieved in the late 80s/90s is pretty unique for a new independent comic book. Spawn and MacFarlane's whole saga might be important within the comic publishing world, but Spawn never achieved even one percent of the Turtles' pop culture success. It's not outlandish to say that the turtles are some of the most famous and important comic book heroes of all time

Deadpool? He may have fans, but I doubt as many people know who he is as can name each and every turtle. Before Robert Downey Jr, more people knew the Turtles than Iron Man (and that may even still be true). The turtles are more well known and popular than 70% of the heroes that get their own movies




*and I admit to being terribly unfamiliar with most comics

I disagree that the '87 series is completely terrible when re-visiting it as an adult. It's inevitable that a show lasting such a long time would have a lot of crappy episodes (1987-1996 with 193 episodes!), but re-visiting it as an adult, I discovered that there were some truly inspired plots, dialog, and characterizations in that show. You just have to look hard (and admittedly, past a lot of junk). I think the real underrated triumph of the show is the Shredder character. The turtles themselves are quite one-dimensional and silly characters that often seem grating and hollow through adult eyes, but watching Shredder sometimes, I can see how the writers and actor involved in that character's portrayal snuck in a lot of clever stuff. Look at some of this dialog for example:

Shredder: "Patience, Krang. In a short time, the citizens will be too cold to resist us: the solar syphon will soon drain all the energy from the sun and store it in these solar batteries, while the entire planet is turned into a deep freeze that will make the Ice Age seem like a Turkish bath! HAHAHAHA!!!!"

Krang: "Whoo, you have a way with words, Shredder!"

Shredder: "Uhhh, actually I always wanted to be a writer. Being a ruthless conqueror was my second choice."

Shredder was an awesomely hilarious villain and it was great how (as the voice actor who played him confirms), he and Krang played the roles like a bickering married couple. The way Shredder would boss around his goons was really funny too. The movies reduced him to a mute in a stupid mask. I don't think this is a case of what worked in a cartoon being impossible to translate to live action. The people who made the old movies never even tried. There are plenty of comic book/cartoon-inspired movies that get a lot of mileage out of the charisma of the villain and if some of the cleverness that went into Shredder's portrayal on TV went into a TMNT movie, I think the result would be excellent.

To my surprise, the 2007 TMNT movie was the first one that did a good job of establishing the personalities of each turtle as unique and interesting (they all pretty much seemed the same in the live action ones, except maybe Raphael having an accent and being a little tougher), but as Devin pointed out in his review, the story and villains in that 2007 flick stank. All they need to do is get the turtles' simple, appealing personalities down (party animal, tough guy, brains, leader), come up with a good story (of which there are many to draw inspiration from in the 1987-1996 series) and do justice to Shredder and they'd have a fine film.

I had been a fan of the cartoon long before I saw the first TMNT film. Though the humor and interplay between Rocksteady, Beebop, Krang and The Shredder was indeed often hilarious, I grew to appreciate the darker more adult tone of the live action film. The Shredder that cracked me up on Saturday mornings became genuinely frightening, and a compelling threat for the characters that I'd come to care deeply about. While it's sad to lose that "married couple bickering" in a live action movie, when you only have two hours to convince the audience to care, you don't want to undermine your villain with that kind of embarrassing banter. As you point out, when you go for 197 episodes, the show had time to let it's hair down and explore the characters. The first film doesn't have that luxury

I'd also take issue the idea that the live action films didn't develop the Turtles themselves. In the first one especially, the characters are remarkably human and complex.

PS As for giving the Shredder a "stupid" helmet in the live action films, I fail to see what's stupid about this:





Super Shredder's helmet is even cooler! ( IMHO )

"Your take" would just make it EXTRA ridiculous.

I think it's funny you want a super-serious NINJA TURTLES film. TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURLES. TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURLES. A series that was originally intended as a one off parody. A parody of the silliness of the super-serious Frank Miller Daredevil.

BTW I don't think his helmet is dumb, either. But I HATE that shimmery purple disco fabric they used for the rest of his costume.

And even when I was a kid I was like "Yeah, Shredder mutated with the ooze. But how did his ARMOR mutate? Dumb."

I can't speak to the original purpose of the Turtles, but I know what they became. Let's agree to disagree on that front

As for the Shredder fabric, I'd pretty much agree with you (it's impractical for combat, or at least looks that way), but perhaps because he's from the orient he has a silk cape (That's the best explanation I can come up with)

And as for his armor, when I was posting that image before I almost mentioned how it mutated too, but rather than "dumb" I was going to go with "awesome" (though in a new film I'd want some kind of mechanical explanation for the extra spikes)

Fun fact I learned earlier: Chris Evans was in TMNT

PS I just listened to the TMNT theme song on youtube for the first time in like two years, it was incredible! It got me psyched up instantly, it definitely still holds up today. I'd want it to play over the end credits of a grim and gritty TMNT film for sure

It's not terrible for a kids show, but it has no purpose for adults beyond sheer nostalgia. Pretty shoddy storytelling.

EDIT: Yikes. Thanks, Joshua Miller.

Let's not derail with a Princess K discussion. There is a thread for that kind of thing.

On the subject of a turtles reboot..

If they do another turtles movie I want something like this


I would totally dig seeing some progress with the turtles and with them a bit older.
Maybe just drop the teenage, Mutant Ninja Turtles perhaps?

Joshua Miller, The...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is not...Shoddy storytelling, just simple. The, TMNT are heroes, and Shredder, Krang, and The Foot Clan are...EEEEEEEEEvil Villains. The turtles, even have their own Lois Lane inspired gal pal in April O'Neill. I enjoy how both the turtles and the villains constantly break...the 4th wall.

Bartleby_Scriven, Yes, the original TMNT did, tell alot of bad...Puns. I really wish, that...Turtles Forever was released at theaters, as it is a loving tribute to the original comic turtles, and the 87 series. April O'Neill, has proven hard to cast, as really, neither Live Action April, is as good as the character in the 87 series.

Fleed, I think you're mistaking my use of "storytelling." Which may be my own fault for lazily using it. TMNT is great conceptually (characters, mythology, etc). And I loved the show when I was a kid. But having recently rewatched some episodes, I was a little disappointed to

Joshua Miller, That is cool. I introduced the series to my cousins (both Girls), when they were 4 and 6 respectively, and they unabashedly love the series, as do I.

Weird. My thought got cut off there.

I was saying. "I was a little disappointed to..." see that it did not continue to appeal to me. This happened to me with most kids shows though - THUNDERCATS, HE-MAN, etc. DUCKTALES remains one of the few shows the I still find artistically viable as an adult, and that's quite possibly just cause I'm a Carl Barks nerd.

This shit is still around?

I kept hearing via IMDB trivia and the original actress who played April (yeah she actually writes back), that the sequel's original script was a lot darker and continued where the previous movie picked off right away. Shredder while back didn't fight due to Leo cutting his arm in the first movie. The original mutagen was supposed to mutate him into a hulking mass with his clothes and armor torn and there was supposed to be an actual battle between him and the turtles with their weapons. The ending was supposed to reveal Professor Jordon Perry as an uptrom.

Then the producers and scared parents got in the way.

That does sound kind of cool, but I did like Shredder's appearance in TMNT2:TSOTO anyway. The shot of his hand coming out of the garbage dump is pretty chilling, and the Super Shredder battle at the end is also great

That's really cool that April wrote to you, BTW

PS I ultimately think it is wise that no one was revealed to be an alien, but that's just me.

PPS Tigeroovy, while that is an interesting look for the turtles, my big problem with it is that their shells are too small for the turtles to retreat back inside. That's a key feature for any turtle (it's why they have shells in the first place) and when I said they needed to keep a semi realistic turtle anatomy that's exactly what I was talking about: they should remain in proportion with their shells. The themesong might talk about "heroes in a half shell" but I sure as heck wouldn't want to try and cram a real life turtle into one

Well I loved the initial part of the Super Shredder intro. The hand through the dock was crazy, but you then caught a small glimpse of him, and for a kid it was scary.

What fight?

All he did was start destroying the dock like an idiot (although the ooze was contaminated to make Tokka and Razar a little dumber). I would of loved to see a battle where if the Turtles couldn't beat a human Shredder, what they would of had to do against a really pissed off Shredder on steroids?

Well, when I say "fight" I mean turtles avoiding his attacks as he brings down the dock. However, the fact he could punch through solid wood beams like that was quite scary as a kid. In the end, the turtles didn't "beat" Super Shredder, they just lucked out on the location where they faced him. Shredder, by arrogantly demonstrating his new abilities by punching the beams, ultimately brought about his own destruction. This is what makes teh ending of the movie so compelling to me.

I agree seeing an extended fight would have been cool as well though

I had a...Shell of a good time tonight. My best friend, her husband, and their sons, and I watched the original...Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We even ate pizza this weekend, in anticipation of such a...Kick-Butt, action film! I hope that...TMNT (2012) is just as great, or the Paramount film will get...SHELLacked at the box office!

That sounds like a great time, and I'm glad it provided an opertunity for delightful turtle related puns too!


IMHO, if the TMNT2012 film takes the right approach, Paramount stands to make plenty of ... greenbacks!

Princess Kate, Cowabunga...Dudette! That was...TURTLEy Awesome!

IT'S HAPPENING.

LOL, I am all out of turtle puns so I guess I'll just go with this image:




"Cowabunga, Dude!"

Patrick Ripoll, What is...Happening?

Are you the Keymaster?

Double rainbow.