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US church to go ahead with 9/11 Qu'ran burning. - Page 2

post #51 of 389
9/8/10 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
I like the idea that this is happening. Muslims burn the US flag regularly in foreign countries, a few US citizens are burning something they care about. It's hateful sure, but relatively harmless, much less so than flying a plane into a crowded skyscraper.
Part of freedom of speech in the US is that negative things are going to be said about religion. Ever see what has been written about Mormons or Catholics? Why is Islam such a sacred cow? They need to get over themselves, if your going to get irate a hick from Florida and 14 followers your wound way too tight.
The fuck is wrong with you

Seriously

Organized book burnings have NEVER led to good things. EVER. Let alone the burning of religious texts.
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post #52 of 389
9/8/10 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
The fuck is wrong with you

Seriously
Okay, I just read this hearing the actual Master Shake's voice in my head and completely lost my shit.
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post #53 of 389
9/8/10 at 7:12pm
Gee, whoda thunk this guy has a history of radical hatred and was kicked out of the church he founded in Germany?
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post #54 of 389
9/8/10 at 7:20pm
I just wish news outlets would just stop paying attention to these nut jobs.
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post #55 of 389
9/8/10 at 7:21pm
Re: the statements from Muslims about how people who burn their holy book need to be killed

Grow up, and join the 21st century. We don't need to follow the rules of a religion we don't belong to. If we want to draw Muhammad, that's our right, and you just need to deal

Re: The danger to the troops/average citizens this book burning poses

Sadly very real, and troubling

Re: the National Social-- er, I mean, "Christian" book burners in Florida

They are despicable, unAmerican, and should be stopped. Doing so would not violate the fist amendment. They lack the proper permit to hold the burning. They've stated it's their plan to ignore the need for a permit. The police have said they'll be "fined" if they go ahead with it. How about you physically stop them from breaking the law instead? America would get credit for stopping this horrific "protest", and yet not have to compromise our core principals of free speech. The racists have declared it's their intention to break the law in order to burn the books.. I don't see how this event is still going forward if that's the case.
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post #56 of 389
9/8/10 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
I just wish news outlets would just stop paying attention to these nut jobs.
I agree, but at the same time this similar sentiment is expressed all the time and yet it's too late. The toothpaste is out of the tube. Now we have to figure out how to deal with this crap. Hopefully we can just all get together and enjoy a nice, long, relaxing circle-piss on a hogtied Pastor Fuckwaffle.
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post #57 of 389
9/8/10 at 7:45pm
Our Defence Minister, Peter McKay, has said as well that this thing could put not just American troops in harms way but the other coalition forces over there:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...tor-quran.html

Quote:
Qur'an burning puts Canadians at risk: MacKay
Burning Muslim holy book 'no different than burning a Bible': defence minister
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 | 5:23 PM ET


Canadian Defence Minister Peter MacKay says a U.S. church's plan to burn the Qur'an on Saturday — the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks — will put soldiers from Canada and other countries at risk in Afghanistan.

MacKay's comments regarding the plan by the Dove World Outreach Centre in Gainesville, Fla., echo those made earlier this week by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan.

Petraeus said images of a burning Qur'an could be used for the extremist cause.

"I do believe that in Canada we are quick to embrace people's expressions of freedom, but burning a Qur'an is no different than burning a Bible," MacKay said Wednesday. "This is a book of faith."

"It's important to point out that we are not fighting Islam or Muslims [at] large in Afghanistan. We are fighting extremists," he said from Victoria.

Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs has also condemned the plan.

The White House and the U.S. State Department slammed the church's plan on Tuesday, saying it would jeopardize U.S. lives in Afghanistan.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...#ixzz0yys5KW7L
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post #58 of 389
9/8/10 at 8:26pm
I do not like Pastor Fuckwaffle.
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post #59 of 389
9/8/10 at 8:37pm
You know how people handcuff themselves to trees and such in an effort to save them? It would be rad if a bunch of awesome people just went to Florida and sat on the pile of books with signs that said "BURN ME TOO, MU'FUCKA'."
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post #60 of 389
9/8/10 at 8:46pm
Either that or just stood across the street with a high-powered water-hose and extinguished any fire as it started. I mean obviously, 1st Amendment only protects you from the Government - it doesn't do a damn thing to protect you against other citizens. If somebody so chose they could do PLENTY to stop this from happening.
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post #61 of 389
9/8/10 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post

Re: the National Social-- er, I mean, "Christian" book burners in Florida

They are despicable, unAmerican, and should be stopped.
No. They just need to be ignored.
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post #62 of 389
9/8/10 at 9:40pm
Why do I get the feeling that the people that are okay with this book burning would be apoplectic if someone across the street from them burned the American flag?
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post #63 of 389
9/8/10 at 9:51pm
Have we settled on whether this is delusions of holy grandeur or just good old fashioned media whoring yet?

I disagree to some extent with the just ignore it and it'll go away mantra. If he wasn't representative of a large portion of the populace, yes, but this is like ignoring the guy who's playing with matches in the woods during dry season. And then using those matches to burn a few Qu'rans and further inflame the hate storm.

That whole fire motif is unintentional, but I'm gonna let it ride.
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post #64 of 389
9/8/10 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasMN View Post
So what you're saying is that we should behave more like terrorists because they did it first.
Nope, I'm saying I support the right for someone to say "We don't like your group". I really don't get the liberal guilt mock outrage over this issue. Someone compared this to Nazi bookburning, it's 12 red necks in Florida.
In the schoolyard of religions, Islam gets left alone while the other kids get picked on.
Enjoy this atomic wedgie Islam, you've more than earned it.
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post #65 of 389
9/8/10 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Foster View Post
No. They just need to be ignored.
Did you read my suggested justification to use? It would not be violating first amendment freedoms, it would be acting to prevent the riotous, demonstrably unlawful assembly that these cretinous bumkins made clear their attention to conduct. We have the right to assembly; not the right to set public bonfires. These people lack the permit needed to carry out their plot. My point is that rather than sit back and fine them after the fact (like the police have said they will do), they should actively prevent the crime from taking place. As far as I can tell, the only reason the police wouldn't stop it is that they are scared of being seen as anti Christian. They don't want to take a side publicly, so instead they offer inaction even in the face of the calamitous peril it risks to the troops

It would be doing us all a favor to enforce the law, and my first amendment principals wouldn't feel violated one bit

EDIT now that it has become a widely reported story, it is more important than ever to quash it. It can no longer be swept under the rug
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post #66 of 389
9/8/10 at 10:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
In the schoolyard of religions, Islam gets left alone while the other kids get picked on.
Since when? It seems to have been pretty fucking demonised throughout the western world in the last decade so I'm pretty convinced you're talking out your arse.
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post #67 of 389
9/8/10 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
Did you read my suggested justification to use? It would not be violating first amendment freedoms, it would be acting to prevent the riotous, demonstrably unlawful assembly that these cretinous bumkins made clear their attention to conduct. We have the right to assembly; not the right to set public bonfires. These people lack the permit needed to carry out their plot. My point is that rather than sit back and fine them after the fact (like the police have said they will do), they should actively prevent the crime from taking place. As far as I can tell, the only reason the police wouldn't stop it is that they are scared of being seen as anti Christian. They don't want to take a side publicly, so instead they offer inaction even in the face of the calamitous peril it risks to the troops

It would be doing us all a favor to enforce the law, and my first amendment principals wouldn't feel violated one bit

EDIT now that it has become a widely reported story, it is more important than ever to quash it. It can no longer be swept under the rug
Courts have proven time and time again that it isn't the police departments job to stop crime or protect you. When the law is broken it will be enforced. That's what police do.

But good to know that you advocate Minority Report type justice.
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post #68 of 389
9/8/10 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
Nope, I'm saying I support the right for someone to say "We don't like your group". I really don't get the liberal guilt mock outrage over this issue. Someone compared this to Nazi bookburning, it's 12 red necks in Florida.
And you. You aren't just supporting a right, you're glad it's happening. You said so yourself.

Now tell me more about this liberal guilt business.

Quote:
In the schoolyard of religions, Islam gets left alone while the other kids get picked on.
Yeah, I bet it's tough being a Christian in America. The smoke from all the bibles burning makes the sunsets a pretty red, but I can hardly hear my stereo over the furor regarding those Christers insisting on building another church. Must be awful, being Christian and American.

The two most distrusted religious groups in the US are Muslims and - although religious group is not an accurate term - atheists.

Quote:
Enjoy this atomic wedgie Islam, you've more than earned it.
I see this isn't about supporting rights for you at all, it's just more "9/11wahhhhhhhhh!", same excuse as was trotted out in defense of the invasion of Iraq and the US's use of torture. Get over it already.
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post #69 of 389
9/8/10 at 11:58pm
Wonder what Hitchens thinks.
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post #70 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
Nope, I'm saying I support the right for someone to say "We don't like your group". I really don't get the liberal guilt mock outrage over this issue. Someone compared this to Nazi bookburning, it's 12 red necks in Florida.
In the schoolyard of religions, Islam gets left alone while the other kids get picked on.
Enjoy this atomic wedgie Islam, you've more than earned it.
"ABLOO ABLOO OTHER RELIGIONS GET MADE FUN OF WHY NOT ISLAM ABLOO ABLOO."

Fuck off with that nonsense.

Book burning is the classic 'shitheel tactic'. It is done by people who are tremendously insecure about something existing that they don't personally agree with, but since they don't have the mental capacity to actually debate and find common ground about things, they burn books. They don't debate, they don't reason, they just torch what frightens them and yell stupid shit.

So no, they shouldn't burn the holy book of 7 million American citizens. Maybe it's their right to do so, but it SURE AS FUCK is tasteless and will not lead to positive things.
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post #71 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
I like the idea that this is happening. Muslims burn the US flag regularly in foreign countries, a few US citizens are burning something they care about. It's hateful sure, but relatively harmless, much less so than.
Does it hurt when I see someone burn the US flag, yes it does, but I also have the piece of mind to sit back, and feel sorry for that person who is doing the burning. That is what everyone in this country should remember. Lets not "play to their level", let them burn our flags, because in the end, us educated individuals remember that it's only a flag, and their is more to America then the stars and stripes. That's what separates us, from people like the radical Islamics. By burning books, especially religious books, we are just feeding into this cycle of hate.
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post #72 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
Enjoy this atomic wedgie Islam, you've more than earned it.
You are so dumb.
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post #73 of 389
9/9/10 at 5:58am
I think it's great that the right's response to this seems to be "well, they're assholes for putting so much stock in one EVIL book" when these are the guys who have constantly tried to make fucking FLAG burning a criminal offence.

A-COD, other things that terrorists do: blow up children, behead aid workers, spoil people's red-eye flights in September. Hey, let's do all that shit too!

You're such a dick it's horrifying.
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post #74 of 389
9/9/10 at 8:17am
If someone was to "accidentally" get burned by this illegal fire, who would be legally responsible?

KA'CHING!
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post #75 of 389
9/9/10 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded.
Spot on as always, George.
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post #76 of 389
9/9/10 at 9:17am
Its times like this I am very thankful I live in the UK. This did would have been arrested by now for inciting religious hatred.

Which before anyone asks has also been used against Muslims extremists, see Abu Hamza for example
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post #77 of 389
9/9/10 at 9:34am
How about the massive media presence that is surely turning out for this instead focus on the overwhelming condemnation of the burning from a united, multifaith front? That would be swell.

Oh and ps - Gainesville's pretty damn liberal. I take umbrage with the hick sentiment. It even has a gay mayor!
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post #78 of 389
9/9/10 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
Its times like this I am very thankful I live in the UK. This did would have been arrested by now for inciting religious hatred.

Which before anyone asks has also been used against Muslims extremists, see Abu Hamza for example
Same here in Australia - and agreed.
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post #79 of 389
9/9/10 at 10:16am
A-COD, other things that terrorists do: blow up children, behead aid workers, spoil people's red-eye flights in September. Hey, let's do all that shit too!

You're such a dick it's horrifying.[/QUOTE]

I think we should blow up children and behead aid workers?!. I don't even understand your argument, are you attempting a slippery slope fallacy? I stated I consider 14 people in a field in Florida burning the Koran to be harmless.
Keep patting yourself on the back for your open and loving world view, you are a man of the world, just avoid being seen in public with Salman Rushdie.
I believe the average American Muslim will find this event in poor taste, but shrug and say "whatever". It is my opinion that the only people that would be seriously offended by burning the Koran are Extremist Muslims and extremist liberals. I take great joy when either of those groups are seriously offended.
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post #80 of 389
9/9/10 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
Wonder what Hitchens thinks.
He doesn't specifically talk about the Koran burning here, but...
http://www.slate.com/id/2266154/
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post #81 of 389
9/9/10 at 10:30am
I don't like the idea of being bullied by a minority of religious fanatics of any persuasion. If we're all about religious tolerance--and the majority of us in here seem to be--we have to accept their right to be idiots.

Granted, there's a big swing of behavior between misguidedly and stupidly burning a book to irritate a group, and piloting planes into buildings, but still. Where does the right to exercise one's religious freedoms and First Amendment rights end and the common good begin?
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post #82 of 389
9/9/10 at 10:34am
I propose a counter-burning gathering which will satisfy both Muslim, Christian and Atheist... we gather up all the copies of Ben Afleck's 'Daredevil' and torch em for the good of all religions...
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post #83 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
I think we should blow up children and behead aid workers?!. I don't even understand your argument, are you attempting a slippery slope fallacy? I stated I consider 14 people in a field in Florida burning the Koran to be harmless.
Your argument was essentially "wah wah wah they burnt our precious flag so they've got this coming". They've also done all those things listed above - are we gonna take the "eye for an eye" approach with those too?

Quote:
Keep patting yourself on the back for your open and loving world view, you are a man of the world, just avoid being seen in public with Salman Rushdie.
I believe the average American Muslim will find this event in poor taste, but shrug and say "whatever". It is my opinion that the only people that would be seriously offended by burning the Koran are Extremist Muslims and extremist liberals. I take great joy when either of those groups are seriously offended.
Oh, grow up. Other people that might take offence to this: the soldiers who are going to have to deal with the neanderthal violence that this moronic preacher's actions will provoke. Like others have said, he's a coward - if he wants to "fight the good fight", he can enlist. Instead he's doing something mighty stupid and provocative and leaving others to pick up the pieces.

Incidentally, do you know many "average Muslims"?
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post #84 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:02am
Even the Director's Cut?
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post #85 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:04am
It's pretty interesting to see the posts you choose to respond to and the ones you don't. It suggests a level of intellectual dishonesty you may not even be aware of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-COD View Post
I think we should blow up children and behead aid workers?!. I don't even understand your argument, are you attempting a slippery slope fallacy? I stated I consider 14 people in a field in Florida burning the Koran to be harmless.
There's that intellectual dishonesty again - you stated a lot more than that. It's a bit hard to re-write history when it appears on the last two pages.

Quote:
Keep patting yourself on the back for your open and loving world view, you are a man of the world, just avoid being seen in public with Salman Rushdie.
There goes a healthy dash of bigotry that contradicts with your subsequent assertions again - hows that intellectual dishonestly working out for you?

Quote:
I believe the average American Muslim will find this event in poor taste, but shrug and say "whatever". It is my opinion that the only people that would be seriously offended by burning the Koran are Extremist Muslims and extremist liberals. I take great joy when either of those groups are seriously offended.
So you actually equate people with left wing opinions with people prepared to commit suicide attacks against the west? Why do I get the feeling your true feelings are finally slipping out with comments like this one?
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post #86 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
I propose a counter-burning gathering which will satisfy both Muslim, Christian and Atheist... we gather up all the copies of Ben Afleck's 'Daredevil' and torch em for the good of all religions...
NOW I'M ANGRY!!!!!!
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post #87 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post
I don't like the idea of being bullied by a minority of religious fanatics of any persuasion. If we're all about religious tolerance--and the majority of us in here seem to be--we have to accept their right to be idiots.
If we're all about religious tolerance shouldn't we respect all religions enough not to support the burning of their holy books in the first place?
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post #88 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:28am
No religous scholor here, and I slept through most of my Sunday School classes... but isn't the Qu'ran, the Bible, and the Tanakh basically very simular. Isn't the old testiment, in all three books? So if that is the case, why would the church want to burn part of what they beleive in?
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post #89 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post
I don't like the idea of being bullied by a minority of religious fanatics of any persuasion. If we're all about religious tolerance--and the majority of us in here seem to be--we have to accept their right to be idiots.
Tolerant, sure... I'm not going to go start shooting at them, or busting skulls. Being Tolerant, doesn't mean I have to like what they are doing. Infact, it's well within my rights to hate what they are doing. Same thing goes with KKK ralleys. Those fools are well within their rights to march, and protest, and bleach their sheets in public. But I have the right to squirt ketchup all over them.
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post #90 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:32am
These guys have the right idea.

Quote:
LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Clifton Universalist Unitarian Church will host a reading of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks Saturday.

The church is opening its sanctuary to anyone who wants to read or listen to the Islamic scriptures.

Church members said the event is an effort to promote solidarity with Muslim-Americans who are being discriminated against.

"This isn't about promoting Islam," said Rev. Todd Eklof. "We want to promote freedom of religion and equality, which is supposed to be the American way."

The event is also in direct response to a Florida church who plans to host "International Burn a Koran Day" Saturday.
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post #91 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Incidentally, do you know many "average Muslims"?
I'm thinking no, but homeboy might be all like "I HAVE MUSLIM FRIENDS AND THEY FEEL THE SAME AS I DO"

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Why do I get the feeling your true feelings are finally slipping out with comments like this one?
Figured it wouldn't take long, what with the hopscotching about and cherry-picking shit to fit his point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
If we're all about religious tolerance shouldn't we respect all religions enough not to support the burning of their holy books in the first place?
Nah, that would never work!
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post #92 of 389
9/9/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
No religous scholor here, and I slept through most of my Sunday School classes... but isn't the Qu'ran, the Bible, and the Tanakh basically very simular. Isn't the old testiment, in all three books? So if that is the case, why would the church want to burn part of what they beleive in?
.....sort of. But not really.

But that's besides the point.
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post #93 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Bean View Post
.....sort of. But not really.

But that's besides the point.
I don't think it's besides the point. Just another element of how dumb this church is for doing it.
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post #94 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:05pm
You know when the Vatican, Obama and Palin all agree soemthing is bad.....

It really is sad to see that terrorism worked. The predominant rational for stopping this isn't moral but fear.
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post #95 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:06pm
If this can happen in Memphis, maybe there is hope.
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post #96 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:06pm
The question is do YOU agree. Because...y'know CHAOS!
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post #97 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Kate View Post
Did you read my suggested justification to use? It would not be violating first amendment freedoms, it would be acting to prevent the riotous, demonstrably unlawful assembly that these cretinous bumkins made clear their attention to conduct. We have the right to assembly; not the right to set public bonfires. These people lack the permit needed to carry out their plot. My point is that rather than sit back and fine them after the fact (like the police have said they will do), they should actively prevent the crime from taking place. As far as I can tell, the only reason the police wouldn't stop it is that they are scared of being seen as anti Christian. They don't want to take a side publicly, so instead they offer inaction even in the face of the calamitous peril it risks to the troops

It would be doing us all a favor to enforce the law, and my first amendment principals wouldn't feel violated one bit

EDIT now that it has become a widely reported story, it is more important than ever to quash it. It can no longer be swept under the rug
To play devil's advocate (or neo-nazi god advocate) Is there any reason why they couldn't get a fire permit? Is there any reason why the local government would not allow it if it were just a bonfire? If so, then I say that the local government is infringing on the first amendment. I still feel dirty for defending these d-bags, but I feel horrible for defending flag burners as well.
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post #98 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
If we're all about religious tolerance shouldn't we respect all religions enough not to support the burning of their holy books in the first place?
The majority of us do. It's the annoying and tiny minority that don't. But these people still have the same rights under the Constitution as the rest of us. We can't revoke said rights based upon our near-universal disagreement with these fools. The Constitution was established in part to protect everyone's stand on issues, not to suppess any minority of thought. And with this crew in Florida, they definitly have a minority of thought in every sense of the word.

But tolerance is tolerance, be they part of the largest religion on the planet or a member of a snake handler church with three surviving parishioners. It sucks, but it's America.
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post #99 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
No religous scholor here, and I slept through most of my Sunday School classes... but isn't the Qu'ran, the Bible, and the Tanakh basically very simular. Isn't the old testiment, in all three books? So if that is the case, why would the church want to burn part of what they beleive in?
The Christian Old Testament canon and the Tanakh are basically the same (though the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics have some extra books in the "deuterocanon", Old Testament books written by Greek Jews, whereas the Tanakh is limited only to texts written in Hebrew originally), but the Qu'ran is quite different. It has many of the same characters as the Tanakh, Adam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, but the stories are sometimes simplified, sometimes embellished, often altered. Certain stories from Jewish folklore are added.

There's New Testament material in there too, but since Islam teaches Jesus was just a prophet, it's of course very much altered in the Qu'ran.

So it's a very different text from that which these horrible book burners hold as divinely inspired.
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post #100 of 389
9/9/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post
We can't revoke said rights based upon our near-universal disagreement with these fools.
Is someone here arguing to revoke someone's rights? 'Cause I ain't seeing it.
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