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SAW 3D Discussion - Page 2

post #51 of 66
10/30/10 at 12:29am
I actually found this installment shockingly watchable. So far I've liked the first and third, loathed the last one and been indifferent to the rest. I'd probably rank this one third.

It was nice to see the series make a notriceable move away from the ridiculous ADD editing and absurd chronological masturbation and play it a little straighter. This one has a bit of that stuff but, for the most part, feels more like its own film as opposed to lazy connecting tissue. The traps were also more interesting than those in the last couple films: the broad daylight opening scene seemed positively novel compared to the usual generic warehouse settings and that fish-hook scene was pretty nauseating. It was a joy to see Betsy Russell's character destroyed. People can talk shit about Mandylor all they want, but she was the fucking worst. Plus, Cary Elwes acted that group therapy scene into the grave.

That said, the 3D was among the worst I've seen.

Note: According to imdb in Quebec this movie is called DECADENCE 3D. Sounds about right...
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post #52 of 66
10/30/10 at 3:48am
The movie was a pretty good ending to the series. At least until they continue it or reboot it. I liked that the traps were all pretty nasty, and from what I read, the "Garage Trap" had been previously rejected for being too brutal.

Cary Elwes being shoe horned in as a secret accomplice was lazy, but I liked how they established that he did a lot of the stuff that required surgical procedures. It's an open ending, so it could go either way for another sequel or be the definitive "final chapter".

Wished Tobin Bell was in it more rather than the 2 scenes he had, Costas Mandylor was awesome as Hoffman, particularly during the Police Station sequence.

The opening in the outdoor area PLAYED in the theater I was in. People went nuts over it.

I liked it, and would see more of them if they continue. Especially if they find a way for Hoffman to escape the bathroom.
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post #53 of 66
10/30/10 at 5:03pm
I really don't get the love people have for Costas as an actor. Hes just bland monotone and boring to me.
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post #54 of 66
11/1/10 at 1:15am
Thread Starter 
I'd go as far as saying that this has the most open end of all the seven flicks. With the addition of Gordon as a new apprentice, there is new room for many more Jigsaw/Gordon flashbacks, maybe even Amanda/Gordon flashbacks in case she also knew him.

We didn't see Gordon being dead, so not seeing Hoffman actually die leaves it open to have him back - again. Taking revenge on Gordon? He could even kill MORE cops. Seriously, you do not want to be a police officer in that district. This series must have one of the biggest police bodycounts ever, Hoffman just piles em up.

Let's take the other pig masked guys. In case Cary Elwes is not available to do another Saw, they can just cast whoever they want and make him one of the helpers. Then tell a whole story and when his is over, they can go with the other one. You can have endless apprentices and apprentices of apprentices. At least this ongoing, growing army of Jigsaw followers explain how they could have built all those machines etc. in time.

I just don't get why Gordon would actually work for Jigsaw. It made sense for Amanda because she was weak and naive, it also made sense because Jigsaw threatened Hoffman something would happen if he didn't, but Gordon? Well-payed doctor with a beloved family? Why? I don't think he was all too happy when he saw he hadn't came up with the idea of just smashing his ankle instead of cutting his foot off, like Eric Matthews did.

This would have been so much better if Hoffman had just walked away in the end, as an "ending", it didn't need one more twist. Especially as everyone saw that coming. Even if Elwes return had been kept super secret you'd have known it the moment he sits in the dark and begins to speak during the meeting, than standing up and grinning. Now it's only a question whether Saw VIII will come theatrically or dtv in 2011.
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post #55 of 66
11/1/10 at 6:53am
The way to end this series is for the last accomplice to somehow get caught in a trap that Jigsaw devised before death, and for a video to start playing of Jigsaw explaining that whie they are doing righteous work, he and all his apprentices still deserved to die for the pain they have visited on others. Follow his philosophy to the logical end - he knows he's doing bad things for what he sees as good reasons, so he and all those he trained must die once their work is complete otherwise they'd be hypocrites.

But the films aren't smart enough for that.

Hoffman is fucking TERRIBLE. But no matter how shitty an actor you are or how boring the character is, if you end up playing a killer in multiple parts of a horror franchise there'll be people somewhere who think you're awesome.
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post #56 of 66
11/1/10 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Myers View Post
I just don't get why Gordon would actually work for Jigsaw.
He appreciates his family, blah blah. It's a weak explanation, but it makes more sense than Hoffman continuing Jigsaw's work after his death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Myers View Post
Now it's only a question whether Saw VIII will come theatrically or dtv in 2011.
$24m opening weekend on a $17m budget. Probable $100m+ worldwide gross. I'm betting the series takes a year off, then Saw VIII hits Halloween weekend 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Hoffman is fucking TERRIBLE. But no matter how shitty an actor you are or how boring the character is, if you end up playing a killer in multiple parts of a horror franchise there'll be people somewhere who think you're awesome.
It has nothing to do with him popping up in multiple sequels, it's the fact the series dropped the ambiguous shit and just made him evil. The moment he popped that "fuck you" head tilt to Scott Patterson in Saw V, I was in love.
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post #57 of 66
11/2/10 at 6:44am
So easily impressed.
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post #58 of 66
11/2/10 at 8:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post
He appreciates his family, blah blah. It's a weak explanation, but it makes more sense than Hoffman continuing Jigsaw's work after his death.

$24m opening weekend on a $17m budget. Probable $100m+ worldwide gross. I'm betting the series takes a year off, then Saw VIII hits Halloween weekend 2012.
Yeah, there are some narrative problems. For example, why did Amanda not just kill Hoffman? By killing the doctor in front of Jigsaws eyes, she should have expected that it'll lead to him abandoning her and most of all, him dying. She could have told Jigsaw that Hoffman attacked her and everything would have been fine.

Also, why did Jigsaw involve his wife? He knew what Hoffman was capable of, so making her "test" him was a major risk. If Gordon was along all the time, he should have done that. Also, this test just wasn't fair, because there's no realistic chance to escape it and no "game explanation". It'd also be no freeing of Jill, as Hoffman could not have trapped himself that way alone, thus leading to more police work. This way, it's clearly Jigsaws fault that she died a grisly death. He also should have told her about Gordon, so that she could have gone to him for help, not to the police.

Like you said, it also makes no sense for Hoffman to continue his work after the events of VI. So far, he only did it for not getting outed to the police and not getting killed by other apprentices, but he outed himself in VII to Gibson and planned to leave after killing Jill, so there was absolutely no reason to do that Bobby Dagen game. They should have revealed that Gordon did that.

As for VIII, I wouldn't know how to continue. Does Hoffman escape again and again take revenge on those who trapped him? Will Gordon and his henchmen continue Jigsaws work? If so, will he go against cops as hard as Hoffman did? Whatever happens, it has to lead to an army of cops searching for clues as the Saw murders wiped out about 20-30 cops by now.
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post #59 of 66
11/2/10 at 4:19pm
I understand Hoffman setting 3D's traps -- they're all just ways to get the cops out of the way as he gets to Jill. (Over the course of the film, how many cops does he kill? The entire SWAT team is definitely dead.) But there's no reason for him to set up William's game in Saw VI, especially as the films had pretty much stated he didn't want to keep doing this.

You're right that it doesn't make much sense that John would have Jill put Hoffman in the RBT. But I long ago accepted that this series is short on logic. I could write a thesis on how Saw IV sort of rapes the point of Saw III.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
So easily impressed.
If you killed someone from Gilmore Girls with the same head tilt, I'd love you too.
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post #60 of 66
11/5/10 at 8:52pm
Cary Elwes performance in the group therapy scene is the best thing to happen in this movie.

I don't really remember much of the SAW movies, but this is probably on the lower end of the spectrum. It's so cheap looking and there is absolutely no flow to the story, it just jumps back and forth between people screaming and boring shit like the cop investigating the crimes and flashbacks (actually, that might be a description of all the SAW films). Plus the gore in the movie peaks about 20 minutes in when they murder the guy from Linkin Park and his racist friends, the rest of the kills are no fun at all. I did like when the intestine flew at my face in 3d though, a little more of that would've helped.
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post #61 of 66
11/7/10 at 1:47am
Thread Starter 
Seriously, where has Cary Elwes been the last decade? He did Shadow of the Vampire, The Cats Meow, Saw... and then he went dtv. Best thing that happened to him was being in a dtv movie Eliza Dushku went topless in. And he wasn't even in that scene, so...

He may not be A-list, but he's got chops. He's better than being the star of Saw eight.
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post #62 of 66
11/8/10 at 12:17am
He wouldn't even be the star. Tobin Bell would get first billing!
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post #63 of 66
11/8/10 at 4:18pm
First time Saw theater goer, second time Saw film viewer. I have one question and one question only: what's with the muppet on a tricycle?
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post #64 of 66
11/8/10 at 4:35pm
I believe the puppet was originally a toy that Jigsaw made for his unborn baby. But the fetus was pancaked in the womb by a crackhead who opened a door too quickly when Jill Tuck -- Jigsaw's pregnant wife -- was on the other side of it.
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post #65 of 66
1/8/11 at 6:00am

Saw this today. Some pretty gruesome Traps. In overall I liked it better than SAW V and VI. Some of the people in my audience laughed when that machine gun showed out of nowhere and gunned down all those cops. Cary Elwes seems to have put on a lot of weight since the first SAW as well.

 

How many of you would like to bet that Platinum Dunes does a remake of all this crap in a few years?

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post #66 of 66
10/17/11 at 5:39am

Watched this on Instant last night as I'm in the Halloween spirit and figured to finally finish out this series. 

 

I've had an up and down relationship with the Saw franchise. After initially being blown away by the first movie (I was 19), I thought the second film actually had a compelling lead in Donnie Wahlberg's Eric Matthews and provocative story. The gore can be mean spirited, which I'm not always in the mood for, but the traps themselves are usually fun and II had a few creative ones. The third movie, as pointed out above, had a strong thematic message about legacies and parenting, and would have been an appropriate ending for the series. After all, as I don't buy into Jigsaw's bullshit philosophy (but at least give the filmmaker's credit for attempting a philosophy, aesthetic, and modus operandi), Amanda proving to be a failure is the only way the films should end.

 

Yet they kept going. IV is truly when the retcons start, everything is accelerated, and the quality starts dropping. At least the first few movies had recognizable B-listers that attempt to bring gravitas to the silliness on display. IV is like a spastic music video. It has the parallel narrative to III to add spice, and there are a few practical transitions between sets/scenes that put a smile on my face, but the leads started to feel desperate. Lyriq Bent as Lt. Daniel Rigg is a non-entity, given very little background (except that he's pissed that Hoffman is dead). What a failed attempt at giving a minority lead engaging material.

 

I do like Scott Patterson as Strahm, and that he holds over to the next movie, but V is a complete failure as a motion picture. Hoffman is a truly boring killer and lead, and a problem of the progressing movies is that John was never a lead and mostly maintained a mystique whereas we're privy to all of Hoffman's actions. How is Hoffman so ninja clever? At least the earlier movies had the "main character" dealing directly with the traps, but here there's a half dozen faceless characters I don't care about (and only recognize Julie Benz with a bad wig job) stuck in a trap while Strahm fumbles around the city picking up clues to a mystery the audience is already in on. VI, as has been pointed out, is an improvement as it feels topical and the trap framing device is again focused on the main character. Still, Hoffman and Jill suck. I will admit, however, that every time someone manages to escape a trap it is a bit of a thrill, and Strahm's escape at the start of V and Hoffman's at the end of VI went a long way to winning my good will towards this last film...

 

So, The Final Chapter fails on so many levels. The gore looks very rubbery. The traps have become completely gratuitous, now jumping to the money shots in flashbacks without any set up. The best part of the movie, the opening public trap, has nothing to do with the rest of the plot, which is unfortunate because it would've added a new shade to this whole debacle. Maybe Gordon and Hoffman could've been competing with different methodologies? Whatever. It's become apparent at this point, although II and V did an alright job at faking it, that the screenwriters have no idea what real cops are like. This is like the worst episode of CSI ever, and I felt myself going numb to the whole thing. If the first had a twist, and the second puts a twist on that twist, and third attempts thematic weight, and the sixth tries to take a poke at politics, this movie has nothing to say. Those other examples at least prove that by chance, the odds of putting so many minds together produced some semblance of quality. This felt like a complete cash-in.

 

All it has is the Gordon revelation, which feels completely obvious in retrospect. In a series that prides itself on looking back in on itself continuously, Gordon was never given any closure. Adam's body was shown in the second movie, we find out characters that were thought dead are actually alive (only to die again), but not Gordon. I'm thinking the filmmakers kept this in their back pocket for years, hoping to shove it into any script once the franchise ran out of steam.

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