Serious Question.

I'm not entirely sure how you can have all those experiences and not know it used to be a man. Not up to date on the latest surgical experiences. But can they really truly transform someone from top to bottom?

Processing the experience afterward? I mean once the shock wore off I think I'd have to laugh about it, first of all. I don't think it would mean anything to one's heterosexuality, seeing as in perception is was a completely heterosexual act and even though the revelation could possibly retroactively change that . . . But one's desires and preferences are left completely intact.

But I'd laugh. And prepare for the endless crap that I'm going to receive for the rest of my life from friends. And family. And complete strangers.

Also: This

I frown upon anyone who would freak out about this. The labels of "gay" and "straight" are just social constructs. You like what you fucking like.

There was a TV show in the UK a while back called "There's something about Miriam" where a bunch of very hetro men competed to win the heart of a woman. The twist was she was a post op transexual. None of these men twigged for one second that she used to be a he and ended up suing the TV show because they had not been told beforehand. These guys were firemen, policemen, soliders etc all guys who's mates would crucify them over it.

Anyway this is the "woman" in question...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003...b.broadcasting

If I slept with a man and found out later that it was a woman, I wouldn't be happy. If there is something about you that would make me change my mind about sleeping with you, I want to know about it BEFORE I sleep with you. So to answer your question, I'd regret it. The sex may have been great, but it'll always have an asterisk attached.

yeah, but it says right there. She'd lift up her skirt and reveal the truth.
She looks great. But i don't know if a reconstructed vagina would look seamlessly natural.

Have you seen M. Butterfly, Johnny?

Ugh, I can tell this thread is going to end up disgustingly offensive. Already we have 'it' replacing regular pronouns, in Tati's post. Stay classy.

I'm bisexual, so I get that it's easy for me to say I wouldn't care. I get that as a straight guy, an experience like that would be challenging. But having sex with a woman who has a more complex gender identity and/or history than most doesn't make you any less straight - and if you do suddenly figure out that you're bi or gay, that doesn't make you any less of a man, or a different person than you were before.

In short - you get over it. You had sex with the lady because you were attracted to her. Finding out afterwards that she used to have male body parts shouldn't change a thing. Transwomen are still women - 100% women and what they have or used to have between their legs doesn't change that.

Unlike some in the sex positive/glbt rights communities I wouldn't say it's prejudiced to not want to knowingly have sex with a trans or genderqueer person, because I get that if you're straight or gay or have personal issues about it then it's not as simple as not being prejudiced. But if you already had sex with a person, and didn't know that about them, then finding out about it doesn't change the fact that you enjoyed it, you found them attractive, and if you hadn't found out you'd have probably done it again. Having a freak out at that point? Makes you prejudiced.

I think you would have to have seen a hell of a lot of them to know for sure and even then would you really?

Cleo, let's chalk Tati's use of pronouns up to English being his second (or fourth, for all I know) language, yes? He's an incredibly tolerant dude.

Johnny - it's not my favorite Cronenberg, but it's got a lot to say on this topic.

That's not the correct wording? Remember English is not my first language. But thank you for pre judging me based on how i articulate a sentence!

Unless you're a fat chick. Then it goes right out the window, cause those girls have rolls.

Speaking of, do men who have their junk removed to become a woman still get phantom ball itches, like Civil War amputees?

He's a swarthy Latin misogynist, but he's not a bigot or a hatemonger.

Wouldn't care. If they were rad enough, I might even *GASP* enjoy a healthy, fulfilling relationship with them! Especially the woman in Ken's post.

Actually Jake by all accounts she was a vapid cow. Hot, but a cow nonethless.

She used to be in porn. Or, uh, so I've heard.

Sorry if you made a mistake Tati, I'd forgotten English wasn't your first language. But I'm yet to see a discussion on these kind of issues that didn't descend into disgusting dehumanizing language within half a page. For future reference - people are he or she (and it's good manners to use the pronoun they choose to describe themselves, whatever bits they may or may not have). There is a recent trend for using the gender neutral prounon zie but it's yet to catch on and I don't usually bother unless it's for a person who identifies as being neither one. Describing a person as 'it' is considered pretty rude.

What about someone that has both bits, like Jamie Lee Curtis? Which pronoun then? "Them"?

Waitaminnit, don't people usually use "I" or "ME" to describe themselves (and "WE" if there's some personality disorders)? If they used another pronoun, they would be speaking in the 3rd person...

Cleo I just tend to use whichever one they current are, after all that's what they want.

As for the question in hand I honestly don't know. Personality counts for a lot with me but I have never been attracted to a dude. I think it's a moot point now anyway seeing as I'm married and all.

This thread is already awesome.

I'm with Jake. I guess I'd be surprised, but not in an angry or disgusted way, and that's it. I'd be fine with it, and I'd be open to a relationship with a girl like that if we connected that way. At the very least I'd be interested in talking to her, not like oh she's weird or anything, just out of curiosity because I've never known a transgendered person and I'd be interested in learning more about her perspective and experiences. I hope that doesn't sound condescending or belittling.

Plus I could finally use the line "hey baby let me get all up in that ex-dick" and we would both laugh heartily and then have sex.

Truly, lol

Nope. Piss bucket still wins.

For realz though:

Stories like this make me wonder what the obligation of a gender reassigned person is towards their prospective partners. Finding out later seems to be a drama manifestation of all the confusion these people deal with in their lives and an indicator that perhaps they aren't yet comfortable with who they are 100%.

Initially I think my reaction would be, "Damn, thatsa good surgeon!" I'm not inclined at my age and social scene towards one night stands so I expect that this would be something that came up during the course of getting to know someone so not entirely sure it would be a surprise after the fact.

You are gay.
All of you.

Time to pop some popcorn and pull up a chair?

This. I understand that they would like to be referred to and seen as the sex they have chosen to live as but I also think that they should let the person know who they really were. I suppose if it was a one night stand and either party would never see each other again then whatever. But if it's going along the lines of an actual relationship then I think the transgendered person needs to be open. That's just how I feel, I'm sure others feel differently. And don't get me wrong, I also understand that it could be very hard for them to come out and tell the other person about their gender change.

Now obviously I could sit here and say, "yeah, I'd have no problem with it." But really, I've never been in that situation. I don't truthfully know how I'd react. BUT I assume that, yes, at first I'd probably be mad because I was lied to in a sense, but after awhile I'd probably come around and be ok with it.

I'm a pretty laid back guy and I fully support gay rights. I have no problems with gay people at all or transgendered people. So I'd to think that I'd be accepting of it and not hold a grudge or begin to hate transgendered people.

I remember from my childhood a post op transexual spanish celebrity that was dating a famous director. I think her name was Bibi Andersen or something. Looked great.

Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibiana_Fern%C3%A1ndez

I slept with Taylor Hanson four times before I realised he was a he. And before he realised I wasn't a German Shepherd.

A few years ago I saw an article that had Buck the Pussy guy(not sure if the name is correct) and some random "Chick with dick"(forgive the less than kind classification) wherein it was discussed that one of the photos had to turn you on.

Were you turned on by this arguably perfect specimen of a man or woman with the single exception of what was between their legs? It was quite interesting.

Buck Angel. Buck Angel is also pretty fuck-ugly for a man.

I also understand their hesitancy, but I deserve to know who I'm getting into bed with. If the person is that uncomfortable with sharing that info with me, then we shouldn't be having sex. Period.

They have an obligation to tell the truth. It may be uncomfortable, but they have to tell the truth. What if someone else tells the partner before they do? That only increases the feelings of deception and betrayal. There are no two ways around this. Tell the truth.

I guess the argument is 'If you really like someone, shouldn't that shit just not matter?'.

I'd be pretty pissed. You know it's going to bother some people so to leave that little piece of information is lying by omission as far as I'm concerned and it would really annoy me. I'd take it as a pretty selfish move. I'd be just as annoyed if you slept with my Uncle Jerry and just happened to leave that out as well.

If you have any concern for someone else's feelings (or your budding relationship) you should be able to recognize the things could be major issues in the future and bring them up as soon as possible.

hahahaha buck the pussy guy

I don't follow. Drama from the person with whom the transsexual person had sex is an indicator that the transsexual isn't comfortable with who he/she is?

Obligation to disclose is a tricky thing. Is a woman who has some sort of unusual fetish obligated to disclose this fetish to every man she has sex with? Is a bisexual man obligated to tell his male partner that he's had sex with women or his female partners that he's had sex with men? Is a man who votes Republican obligated to disclose this before he has sex with a politically progressive woman?

Every one of these omissions could be no big deal or a huge deal, depending on the two (or more) people involved. There are no brainers like "I have a venereal disease" and "I'm in a relationship with someone else," but "I used to be a man/woman" is a little more in the gray zone.

ETA - yeah, it definitely requires some understanding of what the other person considers important to know. A lot of folks would consider this a relationship-killing omission, but not everyone.

Pssht, that would never work.

Also, all of this.

Yeah, DaveB put it more eloquently than me. I would go back to: long-term, does it matter? If it wouldn't matter to you, why do you need to know?

On top of which, if you're having sex with someone you only casually know (not the best of things but I understand the urge), sometimes not disclosing the information is a safety thing. Not knowing if the person you are having sex with might turn violent upon learning that they were having sex with an ex-man or ex-woman.

There goes Dave talking sense as usual. Part of the deal with one night stands and casual sex is you don't get to cry about it when you find shit out later. If you don't get to know the person you're getting funky with then it's on you. Or, to put it another way; obligation, shmobligation.

"I used to be a man/woman" isn't a gray zone because the other party is actively participating in whatever they might have an issue with. Full disclosure of an unusual fetish happens before the other party is a participant in the act that may bother them. There lies the difference.

It's like knowing someone is a vegan and thinking "Ehhhh, the butter in these cookies might piss them off so I just won't mention it." Does it REALLY matter? No. Are you a dick for leaving it out? Yes... and it's disrespectful also.

The person isn't obligated to tell at all, particularly on a one night stand. If over the course of dating the two people want to get more serious, I would think both partners would want to divulge background information and a sex change may naturally be one of those things. It's not a necessity though.

Like Diva says, for a one night stand? No one goes over their fetishes. It's usually a wham, bam, thank you. Yeah, the only thing that you are obligated to disclose is whether you have any STDs.

Bolded cuz it's dead on fucking accurate.

Have a beer on me tonight, Bucho!

To most people, I think who someone is mentally is just as important as who someone is physically. Sex isn't just a matter of rubbing parts together, whether those parts be what you were born with or what a doctor helped you out with.

Many people might have bigger reservations about having sex with a white supremacist, a furry, a manic depressive, or an objectivist than they would a post-op transsexual. Like I said, it's all about the particulars. If we're talking about a one-night stand here, it's on you to figure out what's important to tell the specific other person.

Yeah, but this analogy requires foreknowledge. If you're a transsexual who knows that someone doesn't want to have sex with transsexuals, it's probably better that you not pursue sex with him or her at all, much less lie about it. The point is that not all people have hangups about it, thus it's very much a situation-by-situation thing.

By the same token, are people who have problems with having sex with transsexuals obligated to share this with all sexual partners just in case one turns out to be a transsexual? Interestingly, I bet they'd end up alienating a fair share of non-transsexuals who don't care to sleep with people who discriminate against transsexuals.

No, drama in the sense of general contention brought forth by the transexual via "dumping" the gender reassignment on the new partner.

Going on two years of trying to fix my own personal issues that were my lane in the two way street of the degradation of my marriage and the subsequent one and half relationships I attempted in that time frame I have dealt a lot with "drama."

I have learned for me personally that my father's alcoholism has lead me to be in a perpetual state of alert. We always had to be on the lookout for the dime to drop and the shitstorm to begin. I feel ill when things are going well in my life and have through the years been a contentious bastard in order to make myself feel better. Recognizing that has helped me recognize drama before I get too deep into relationships.

I would wager that most transgendered people are not, in what most people would call, healthy states. In a general sense they are "surrounded by drama." Choosing to withhold this information from a perspective sexual partner then revealing it afterwards seems to be a deep seated "gotcha" kind of manifestation that while perhaps not intentional is deeply rooted in society's reaction to these sorts of things.

The transgendered person who reveals this information afterward most likely believes if they make a physical connection they can salvage a mental and non-physical connection with someone post-reveal through the physical aspect.