CHUD.com Community › Forums › ARTS & LITERATURE › Comics & Anime › House of Mystery and the vitality of a shared Vertigo Universe
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

House of Mystery and the vitality of a shared Vertigo Universe

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
The Vertigo Imprint for DC Comics serves both as an out-of-universe brand name, and an in-universe means to tell both darker stories starring characters that congregate on the fringes of the DC Universe, and standalone stories with no relation to the DCU proper. While this began unofficially with Alan Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing (1984), Hellblazer (1988), Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol (1989) and The Sandman (1989), the imprint was not made official until 1993.

What was notable about the early titles is, inherent in the fact that they were spinoffs from DC, they shared a world together. Constantine was introduced in the pages of Swamp Thing, and appeared in both The Sandman and The Books of Magic. There was even an ill-advised massive crossover event from 1993-1994 called The Children's Crusade, that featured the Deadboy Detectives from Sandman as well as Tefé from Swamp Thing and Tim Hunter.

Starting with Preacher (1995), however, a trend began of Vertigo becoming more of a brand than a universe. I do not lament this at all, however, because it allows a high degree of creative freedom, and brought such classic titles as Y-The Last Man and 100 Bullets. What I do regret, however, is the loss of the sandbox that Alan Moore created and Neil Gaiman went on to nurture. With the cancellation of The Books of Magic: Life in Wartime and Swamp Thing in 2005, as well as Lucifer ending in 2006, those characters have either disappeared into limbo or been reappropriated back into the DCU proper.

Sandman (most notably the Daniel version) has made a few sporadic appearances in DC; Swamp Thing showed up in Infinite Crisis albeit briefly; and Death of all characters will be seen in Action Comics with Lex Luthor on his deathbed. The nature of Vertigo allows for stories with a beginning and end (I actually LOVE the ending of Lucifer, in which the title character leaves Creation to explore the Unknown), but with that in mind I want them to either be given a proper ending (which Swamp Thing and Tim Hunter were never allowed), or left out of DC entirely so as not to be neutered.

Which brings me to my point: Matthew Sturges and Bill Willingham's House of Mystery. What an incredible comic this is, with characters from every time and reality boarding together in what is essentially the cavern from At World's End. While the A plot involves the characters trying to figure out what the house is and how they got there (with a few shout-outs to Cain, who wonders what happened to his house), the B plot has the characters telling stories that usually tie back into the A plot thematically.

Awesome, a whole lot of fun, but it makes me sad because the only Vertigo comics that still acknowledge each other's existence, however loosely, are House of Mystery and Hellblazer. Where have you gone Swamp Thing, Tim Hunter or even Merv Pumpkinhead? I remember a whole line of Sandman Presents mini-series from the late '90s, early 2000s that were a lot of fun, but now...nothing.

Sorry for this long winded rant, but I worry that with the death of Wildstorm and the talk of those characters being appropriated ala the Dakotaverse, my favorite Vertigo characters will either be neutered or cease to be. I give credit to House of Mystery for keeping up the tradition, but I ask wouldn't it be fun to have Constantine show up in Fables?
post #2 of 16
I thought I'd read somewhere that Vertigo was going away as well? That DC was turning away from the imprint idea and having everything under one banner.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Dislike.
post #4 of 16
Vertigo isn't going away at the moment. Didio and Johns wants them to share characters more by force.

Zuda, Wildstorm, CMX and the other lines have been killed.
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Yeah, let me reiterate that I'm not wanting, for instance, John Constantine to become a member of the Shadow Pact or Tim Hunter to join the Teen Titans. Far from it. I just want there to be more of a community amongst the Vertigo characters themselves, which has been sadly lost since about 2005, 2006 or so. Mike Carey went to great pains during his Hellblazer run and Lucifer to tie the events of both series together, even showing Lucifer and Tim Hunter affected during the "Beast of Adam" storyline.

No one seems to care anymore. Morrison's Seven Soldiers of Victory was about as close as a mainstream comic can come to being Vertigo, but I believe that had more to do with Morrison himself and the choice of characters (Klarion, Zatanna) being unorthodox anyway. I don't trust Geoff Johns, who I love as a superhero writer and a creator of spectacle, to have the nuance and grace to handle Shade the Changing Man.
post #6 of 16
The problem, of course, is that DC doesn't really know how to sell anything but their really, really big names at the moment. And even those sometimes struggle, as witnessed by their bumbling handling of Wonder Woman.

To me, having several different imprints made way more sense--you could have different approaches, different philosophies, different people in charge. Of course, it seems like they need a certain amount of muscle to keep Didio and co. from mucking it up even when they're theoretically a separate division.

As usual, the problem here--and this is an issue with comics in general, not just DC--is that too many people in a position of power keep putting all their eggs in an increasingly smaller and flimsier series of baskets. DC in particular has a ridiculously vast library of characters of all different types, but they have no idea how to sell anything that isn't direct market big-name superheroes for the Comic Book Guy crowd. In retrospect, there were no long-term advantages whatsoever to DC buying Wildstorm--for either company. They were just gobbled up and digested to mush.

What's terrifying to me is that DC is this huge, rampaging beast that takes up a lot of real estate in the comics industry, but it's being run incompetently. It's like that cartoon about "amalgamated toothpick", where they use up a whole tree to make one toothpick. DC owns a huge chunk of the comics industry, both in terms of intellectual property and market share, but they don't know how to use 99% of it.

This is why we desperately need diversification and to root for the smaller labels. DC's going to go down eventually, and it would be nice if it didn't take the comics industry with it when it goes.
post #7 of 16
I haven't picked up any comics in quite a while, but I thought that DC had a pretty smart dynamic going on for a while where they would seek out newer or at least more unknown talent and let them develop at Vertigo and then filter in the talent that was willing to write superhero books into their main stable. It was smart because they were able to maintain a sense prestige for their publishing brand and look for talent that could push their superhero brands forward. Of course, it appears that they've fallen on their face, as since Infinite Crisis they've been recycling the same approach over and over again. If anything, All Star Superman should have signaled a sea change for DC, as the line in general seemed to be trying to herald in an age for DC Comics similar to what can be seen in long running Vertigo books like Hellblazer, where a reader can jump into a new creator's run and not be lost and can expect a more or less self-contained experience.
post #8 of 16
To be fair, Marvel hasn't a fucking clue how to sell their smaller characters either. Look at the way they've ham handedly jammed Namor and Blade into the X titles.

There has been plenty of really good titles at Vertigo in the last few years, but nobodies reading them. I can't believe people are wanting more from the Sandman characters. Let it be. Go read Unknown Soldier, Sweet Tooth, Madame Xanadu, Unwritten, DMZ, Northlanders, or Scalped. Now to the person that said they don't know how to sell themselves, that I agree with. It may be that there is just not enough of a market left to sustain the off beat stuff anymore.
post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
As I said in my first post, I'm not discouraging the more standalone comics (I've read DMZ, Scalped, Fables, 100 Bullets, and Y-The Last Man), I just miss Tim Hunter and Swamp Thing. I lament the fact that Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol has been retconned out of existence, and his Kid Eternity showed up in Teen Titans.
post #10 of 16
But those books are still being published. So the market is sustaining them.

My understanding is that Vertigo books tend to do poorly in floppy format, but they make up for it in TPB sales. Which is the perfect example of how there are other sales models waiting to be used, but which the Big Two has no idea how to exploit.

That announcement of the Superman and Batman direct-to-trade stories that they're supposedly working on is the perfect example. The idea of marketing trades to bookstores in partnership with a real publishing company is a great one, but then they went and used it to tell yet another origin story, and geared it towards the same audience who always buys comics. (I think. Are these still even happening?) The delivery system was a stroke of genius, but the content stinks. Meanwhile, the smaller and more offbeat DC characters--not to mention some once big-names like Wonder Woman and Aquaman--languish because they can't reach their larger potential audience outside the confines of the comic store. In both cases, DC isn't thinking the process through--they're changing one aspect of their game plan, but they need to be coming up with new ideas from the ground up. The direct-to-trade plan would be a terrific fit with more kid-friendly titles and characters, for instance, but that's just too far out of the fanboy wheelhouse, apparently. They're only willing to take one risk at a time, which means the books are watered-down, so they fail, and then complain that the audience isn't there.
post #11 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
DC owns a huge chunk of the comics industry, both in terms of intellectual property and market share, but they don't know how to use 99% of it.
Or to paraphrase Joe Quesada, "DC is like a guy with the world's biggest dick being a failure as a pornstar."

On topic, I understand and somewhat sympathize with the desire for more connectivity between some of the Vertigo characters, but I think marketing-wise it would be a nightmare to try and make some Vertigo titles "shared universe" books while still publishing great "non shared-universe" series like Unknown Soldier, 100 Bullets or Y:The Last Man. Too confusing for the marketplace, especially at this point in Vertigo's development. Just as they've trained their readers to wait for the trade, they've trained them to think of Vertigo as a brand, not a fictional universe.
post #12 of 16
Actually they announced the cancellation of Madame Xanadu, Greek Street, Air and most disappointly Unknown Soldier months ago.
post #13 of 16
Well this isn't really good news.

I find it interesting Scalped gets a lotta love, but outside of that book Aaron is writing for Marvel.

Gotta wonder what Brian Wood will do. He really isn't the mainstream super hero type (but then again he is older now and a dad).

We have said it over and over, the mainstream part of the industry just seems broken. But maybe digital distribution will help. Who knows. I think comics will always be around. They are such a great medium for telling stories of all types.
post #14 of 16
Bob Harras is the new Editor-in-Chief at Vertigo.


This was the man who alongside Tom DeFalco called "Sleepwalker"...."SANDMAN done right".

I already miss Karen Berger.
post #15 of 16
Ugh. He seriously said that?

I wonder if a lot of the problems bedeviling the comics industry these days might stem from the many people in charge who seem to have really, really bad taste.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
I wonder if a lot of the problems bedeviling the comics industry these days might stem from the many people in charge who seem to have really, really bad taste.
Not exactly new news.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Comics & Anime
CHUD.com Community › Forums › ARTS & LITERATURE › Comics & Anime › House of Mystery and the vitality of a shared Vertigo Universe