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TURNS OUT ARONOFSKY'S ON THAT SUPERMAN LIST, AFFLECK WAS TOO - Page 2

post #51 of 94
9/29/10 at 1:10am
So you want an auteur with their own style to make the precise Superman film you wish to see in the only style you personally believe to be appropriate to the material.
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post #52 of 94
9/29/10 at 1:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
So you want an auteur with their own style to make the precise Superman film you wish to see in the only style you personally believe to be appropriate to the material.
No, I don't want to see a guy, whose style is an opposite to Superman, tackle the project that needs to be rather strait forward IMO.

This is not about "the Superman Only I Want To See" this goes to the 3 decades of mishandling WBs have shown with the project and the fact that the character is 70+ years old and has proven more times then not what makes the character a hit is his optimism, hopefulness and the action... things that I worry Aronofsky isn't capable of delivering right now.

EDIT: Grammar fix
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post #53 of 94
9/29/10 at 1:38am
If there's been three decades of misses (which I don't disagree with, give or take a cartoon), on what do you base your assertion that "more times than not what makes the character a hit is his optimism"? Two movies? A cartoon? The Kirk Alyn serials? It sounds as if, once you do the math, he's worked less often than he has worked.

Wouldn't even the biggest Superman fan in the world be jazzed for a fresh, inspired take, as opposed to any kind of "definitive" version at this point?
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post #54 of 94
9/29/10 at 1:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
If there's been three decades of misses (which I don't disagree with, give or take a cartoon), on what do you base your assertion that "more times than not what makes the character a hit is his optimism"? Two movies? A cartoon? The Kirk Alyn serials? It sounds as if, once you do the math, he's worked less often than he has worked.

Wouldn't even the biggest Superman fan in the world be jazzed for a fresh, inspired take, as opposed to any kind of "definitive" version at this point?
I was referring to the stories told in comics, serials, cartoons, movies, novels, tv shows that were hits during the 70 years run.

The 3 decades of failure is a specifically cinematic thing. Superman stories have been big hits in comics, TV and novels in that same 30 time frame.

And I do agree any Superman fan would be jazzed for a fresh, inspired take... but in my mind, Aronofsky doesn't represent that. Can he do that? of course, but I don't have a ton of faith that he can right now.
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post #55 of 94
9/29/10 at 1:56am
But even in the (irrelevant to the cinematic discussion at hand) media of comics and TV (never read a Superman novel, no idea there), Superman's been pretty much terrible more often than not. It's not as simple as you indicate. He's hard to do right, or at least to do "well", especially in live action. I don't think that's debatable. Singer could have done something interesting, everyone was trying, but he got lost up his own ass trying to resurrect the Donner version.

I want a Nicholas Meyer type who thinks he's above the material to come and kick it all in the ass, devoid of nostalgia and sentiment. Otherwise what you're going to end up with is the same lukewarm reaction The Incredible Hulk got. People need to be talking about this for months ahead of time; the Nolan name buys you that.

On top of all that, I'm ready for a take on Superman by a guy who's not American born yet has taken America as his adopted homeworl- er, country.
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post #56 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
But even in the (irrelevant to the cinematic discussion at hand) media of comics and TV (never read a Superman novel, no idea there), Superman's been pretty much terrible more often than not. It's not as simple as you indicate. He's hard to do right, or at least to do "well", especially in live action. I don't think that's debatable. Singer could have done something interesting, everyone was trying, but he got lost up his own ass trying to resurrect the Donner version.

I want a Nicholas Meyer type who thinks he's above the material to come and kick it all in the ass, devoid of nostalgia and sentiment. Otherwise what you're going to end up with is the same lukewarm reaction The Incredible Hulk got. People need to be talking about this for months ahead of time; the Nolan name buys you that.

On top of all that, I'm ready for a take on Superman by a guy who's not American born yet has taken America as his adopted homeworl- er, country.
I agree generally, it is not easy... part of why there has been such a long drought of quality in the movies is because it is so hard.

I just don't think a drastically different take on the character is what should happen right now. I also have reservations about the darkness that Nolan and Aronofsky could bring to the table.

Of course we are all speculating right now... but I will summarize once more.

I just think of the listed names Snyder makes the most sense, and Aronofsky scares me the most... nothing more nothing less.
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post #57 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:25am
You're worried about Nolan's darkness but down with Snyder.





EDIT: I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you, but I literally have no idea what you mean at this point. A quote from Snyder:

Quote:
"I started reading Heavy Metal (as a kid), and when a friend gave me a regular comic book, I was like 'when do they start fucking and killing each other?'
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post #58 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
You're worried about Nolan's darkness but down with Snyder.
Yep...

but to be fair, Snyder's "darkness" comes from his source material... Aronofsky's comes from his head.

Even though Snyder has really only made bloody R rated films, they have a fun tone about them.

but it is possible Snyder makes a balls awful Superman film, he is not my perfect choice.

And Aronofsky is talented enough to perhaps buck every trend of his career and make an amazing Superman movie... I just wont get excited about the prospect until he shows me something to lead me to that thought.
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post #59 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:29am
See my edit for the inside of Snyder's head.
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post #60 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
See my edit for the inside of Snyder's head.
Yeah, that doesn't change my mind very much... for an even better look inside Snyder's head I could point to the first original film he is doing, the PG13 Sucker Punch... and that is if you don't want to count the PG The Owls of Whatever the Hell...

But ratings aside... if given the choice between Snyder and Aronofsky I would say Aronofsky is a more pessimistic filmmaker. Which is the core of my reservations.

I also don't want it to seem like I don't like Aronofsky... The Black Swan is among my most anticipated winter films and the Fountain might even rate in my top 10 of the 2000s... I just think the combined powers of Aronofsky and Nolan represent a type of Superman film that I think is a mistake. But I am just one guy, with an opinion like everyone else.
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post #61 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:38am
I would prefer that the project go to the most interesting and talented filmmaker, and nevermind what he's known for. Who'd have pegged Burton or Nolan early on in their respective careers as people who should do Batman? Who would have said "Hey, you know who should make a Superman movie? That guy who directed The Omen"?

If you give a great filmmaker a chance to step out of their usual skillset, they'll often make something worthwhile.

Besides, it's about time for Snyder to step away from adaptations. He's built his career on playing in other people's playgrounds.
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post #62 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
I would prefer that the project go to the most interesting and talented filmmaker, and nevermind what he's known for. Who'd have pegged Burton or Nolan early on in their respective careers as people who should do Batman? Who would have said "Hey, you know who should make a Superman movie? That guy who directed The Omen"?

If you give a great filmmaker a chance to step out of their usual skillset, they'll often make something worthwhile.

Besides, it's about time for Snyder to step away from adaptations. He's built his career on playing in other people's playgrounds.
I would agree 100% most of the time... I just think Superman is a unique and special case.

Donner might have been coming off The Omen... but it is not like he had 5 films in his back pocket and was already known for a style at that point. Burton and Nolan both have filmogrophies that make a ton of sense for Batman. Singer is the perfect choice for X-Men because of his personal life, Raimi for Spider-Man makes perfect sense for their frenetic visual styles and humor.

Look Aronofsky is great, but the whole "best filmmaker available" idea is neat in theory but doesn't always work out.

Wes Anderson is a better filmmaker than Martin Campbell, but that doesn't mean I want Wes Anderson to do James Bond films over Campbell if given the option... does that analogy illustrate my point any better?
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post #63 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:49am
Not really. I'd kill to see a Wes Anderson Bond film.

From what I can tell, your whole point is that you want to see the same thing you've always seen with a bigger budget, and you want the filmmaker most likely to knuckle under and do exactly what's expected. And I suspect that most comics fans would agree with you.

That's not what I want.
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post #64 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
Not really. I'd kill to see a Wes Anderson Bond film.

From what I can tell, your whole point is that you want to see the same thing you've always seen with a bigger budget, and you want the filmmaker most likely to knuckle under and do exactly what's expected. And I suspect that most comics fans would agree with you.

That's not what I want.
A Wes Anderson James bond would be interesting to see, but I would rather the guy who is more capable of making the film awesome.

Also it is not about going with what I have always seen... there has NEVER been a Superman film like I have been talking about on this thread... not even Donner's. And what is wrong if someone does what you expect and you expect something amazing? Plus I am not saying I need to see the same Superman the same way, I just don't think it is smart to change him wholesale which is what I fear they might be trying to do. I don't want something like Burton's Superman ideas... that would have been different and unexpected, but also crap.
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post #65 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:01am
If you don't think a Wes Anderson Bond film would be awesome, then there's not a whole lot to say. I still want Tarantino's Godzilla movie.

So yeah, you're probably just trying to convince the wrong people.
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post #66 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
If you don't think a Wes Anderson Bond film would be awesome, then there's not a whole lot to say.
Fair enough, because I wouldn't have a whole lot to say about a Wes Anderson James Bond film... But I will say this, if given the choice I would take Martin Campbell/Zack Snyder but that doesn't mean I think Wes Anderson/Darren Aronofsky would make a horrible film, just not the film I think would be the best right now.
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post #67 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:06am
In other words, the same old thing. Gotcha.

And damn you, now I want a Wes Anderson Bond film. With Bill Murray as Bond.
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post #68 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalanoWally View Post
Fair enough, because I wouldn't have a whole lot to say about a Wes Anderson James Bond film... But I will say this, if given the choice I would take Martin Campbell/Zack Snyder but that doesn't mean I think Wes Anderson/Darren Aronofsky would make a horrible film, just not the film I want and expect.
Fixed that for ya.
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post #69 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
In other words, the same old thing. Gotcha.

And damn you, now I want a Wes Anderson Bond film. With Bill Murray as Bond.
Yeah because when Martin Campbell directed Casino Royal we got the exat same thing when he directed Goldeneye... and Snyder would make exactly the same type of Superman film we have been enjoying for ages... The Exact Same Thing!
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post #70 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:09am
A Wes Anderson Bond film would be totally awesome. Just maybe not in the way you expect.

Just like an Aronofsky Superman would likely be awesome, and likely in ways you would expect it to.
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post #71 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:09am
I'm trying to imagine a Mark Mothersbaugh Bond score, and I like what I'm hearing. Now stick that on any FPS Bond video game footage, and I think you have your Wes Anderson Bond movie.

But at least M would have to be a man again.
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post #72 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
Fixed that for ya.
That is not entirely true... The film I want is probably never going to happen, and Zack Snyder is not on the top of my wish list... and the film I expect is something much to close to TDK or Donner's Superman to be the Superman film that would be the best IMO.
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post #73 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:12am
I don't think you need to worry about the film resembling Donner's stuff. Pretty sure the Superman Donner Party is over. (Heyooooooooooooooooooooooooo)
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post #74 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:14am
Okay, so Wes Anderson directs Superman with Luke Wilson, Bill Murray as Lex Luthor, music by Mark Mothersbaugh.

Done deal. Roll it.
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post #75 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
Okay, so Wes Anderson directs Superman with Luke Wilson, Bill Murray as Lex Luthor, music by Mark Mothersbaugh.

Done deal. Roll it.
I like it... we have no dissenting opinions anymore... lets storm WB and make it happen!!!
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post #76 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:17am
Jason Schwartzman as Superman! The whole Siegel/Shuster Jew thing.

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post #77 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:22am
Now I want Murray as Luthor no matter WHO ends up directing it. That just needs to happen.
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post #78 of 94
9/29/10 at 6:48am
Wasn't Murray the first choice for Obadiah Stane in IRON MAN?

I now want Gene Hackman to come out of retirement to do a Royal Tenenbaum take on M.

"I'm sorry about Moneypenny getting tortured and killed, Bond. She was a terribly attractive woman."
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post #79 of 94
9/29/10 at 7:11am
Murray is 100% built to play the role of Lex Luthor!
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post #80 of 94
9/29/10 at 11:04am
If he played Luthor exactly like Ernie McCracken, wardrobe and all, I'd be down.
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post #81 of 94
9/29/10 at 2:15pm
Although I like Aronofsky's films, I'm not convinced that he's the ideal director for Superman yet. Superman needs to be more optimistic and more uplifting than his darker counterpart, Batman, and from what Aronofsky has done he hasn't shown that he's capable of make a film that isn't too pessimistic. I think Affleck may be a good candidate down the line, but he needs more experience as a director first.
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post #82 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anger Management View Post
Although I like Aronofsky's films, I'm not convinced that he's the ideal director for Superman yet. Superman needs to be more optimistic and more uplifting than his darker counterpart, Batman, and from what Aronofsky has done he hasn't shown that he's capable of make a film that isn't too pessimistic. I think Affleck may be a good candidate down the line, but he needs more experience as a director first.
Not to derail but I consider The Fountain uplifting. Those last minutes said so much about transcendence that it will be cool if it is translated to Superman.
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post #83 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:23pm
The point here, ultimately, is that Tony Scott shouldn't be let within five miles of a Superman movie.

...or ANY movie, really.
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post #84 of 94
9/29/10 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
The point here, ultimately, is that Tony Scott shouldn't be let within five miles of a Superman movie.

...or ANY movie, really.
That's a bingo...

well at least on the Superman front... I do dig Tony Scott films for what they are.
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post #85 of 94
9/29/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalanoWally View Post
That's a bingo...

well at least on the Superman front... I do dig Tony Scott films for what they are.
Fair enough. The last Tony Scott film I genuinely enjoyed was Crimson Tide.
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post #86 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Custer View Post
Fair enough. The last Tony Scott film I genuinely enjoyed was Crimson Tide.
I still love Days of Thunder, even if it's mostly ironically.
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post #87 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:32pm
I'd love to hear a Mothersbaugh Bond score. But I'd also love to hear a Mansell Bond score...
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post #88 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
I still love Days of Thunder, even if it's mostly ironically.
I really like Man On Fire, and the guy did direct True Romance and the Last Boy Scout (a guilty pleasure of mine)

Scott is a fine director, just probably not the right guy for Superman... that is unless he wants Denzel Washington to play the Man of Steel... imagine that, and Washington has the right feel for Superman IMO.
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post #89 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:40pm
Yeah but look at what happened when Donald Glover joked about playing Spider-Man. Imagine that times a million.
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post #90 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:49pm
Other than being too old, I would totally support Denzel Washington's Superman.
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post #91 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Youngblood View Post
Yeah but look at what happened when Donald Glover joked about playing Spider-Man. Imagine that times a million.
Yeah it would be a giant cluster fuck of internet destroying proportions... but it is interesting to think about, just like it is interesting to think of Glover as Spider-Man.
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post #92 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:53pm
And Ejiofor's Bond. I'm prepared to move mountains to make that happen.
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post #93 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg David View Post
And Ejiofor's Bond. I'm prepared to move mountains to make that happen.
That would be wonderful, he would KILL as James Bond... but that is because he KILLS in everything he ever did/does.
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post #94 of 94
9/29/10 at 5:56pm
I'll help you push, Greg.
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