SUPERMAN STORIES ARE FLYING FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET

Sorry if you've been clicking on this and finding nothing, I was still writing! The complexities of our system are still kicking my butt. I didn't know it would shove out links before I hit Finish.

Again, my apologies. Now talk away.

Sounds like Goyer just adapted Superman: Peace on Earth.

I'm underwhelmed with the pitch. When Nolan said Goyer had figured out how to make Superman "work" I imagined it would involve... well not that.

Loving Snyder's involvement.

Goyer's always a first draft kind of guy; lots of good ideas strung together without focus or follow through. I'm hoping someone else will come in with Snyder to overhaul it, and not make it Superman Begins.

Oh, and also to add in the giant robot punching.

Screw giant robots. I want Darkseid. Go all out for once dammit.

Darkseid controlling an army of giant, punchable robots. Ebony and ivory.

Seriously, enough with the fucking robots.

Nobody wants fucking robots, Litmus. We want punching robots.

To wit (NSFW):

www.fuckingrobots.com

Seriously though...enough with the punchable robots. Those fuckers.

You know, considering the of hotness the Lois Lane fancasting nominees, I wouldn't actually mind some fucking robots.

It must be a full moon, I am agreeing with...Greg Clark. Yes, Superman, should be fighting...Giant Robots, designed by General ZOD, and Lex Luthor. Luthor should also build himself an...Iron Manesque Battlesuit!

You people need to think long term. Robots in maybe 2 or 3. Unless your so jaded that you don't think this francise will get that far? What a sad world we live in...

Works for me. It's the reliable old "mad scientist plans new master race" plot. He creates an army of Insemibots to spread his DNA. Today, Metropolis. Tomorrow, the world.

And yes, Superman can punch a few of them if he likes.

Teitr Styrr, I do think long term. Superman Vs General ZOD/Lex Luthor with Giant Robots in Superman, Darkseid in...Superman 2, and finishing in...Superman 3, with him joined by members of a newly formed...Justice League, against some new intergalactic threat.

Fleeds on the money. Darkseid and Braniac in the second one, and Imperiex as the villain for the third. Lets them bring in Doomsday too

I want a cosmic-feeling comic movie (that isn't green latern) and this could be the best way to do it

Dave Jarvie, While I wouldn't adapt...Death Of Superman, I would love to see the destruction of Coast City, which causes Hal Jordan, to go nuts, and start killing villains. A new GL, could be then added, which would also give the WB a replacement, if Ryan Reynolds ever wanted to give up on Super Hero films. Superman Vs Green Lantern would definitely be an interesting development.

Haven't we seen far too many giant/evil robots in other blockbusters in recent years?

Let's have a major mano-a-mano fight between Zod and Supes. Like the one we should have had in back in '82

I kinda dig this idea of Supes traveling the world contemplating his existence, if true that is. Sounds a bit like the first half of Batman Begins, only instead of him trying to find means to fight evil Supes is looking for reasons why to do it. Seems like a good angle to approach this reboot.

Then Zod appears somewhere halfway and kicks Supes' ass in to reality, with his army of giant robots that Supes finds extremely punchable, that is...

The one piece of film that Snyder needs to watch before making this: The last Neo/Smith fight of Matrix Revolutions. Say what you want about the film as a whole, but that fight is the ONLY "live-action" superhero vs superhero fight that has come close to what Superman vs Zod needs to be for this movie to work. He needs to look to that level of action as inspiration: truly super humans constantly using their powers throughout a dynamic, flying battle causing massive destruction...

I could take or leave giant robots. If they can't work them into a good story for a feature, what's the point. They could get away with that in the Fleischer shorts because Supes punching shit is the entire point of those things. Even in the Timm series, which ran 22 minutes, giant robots were used pretty sparingly.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of a young Clark Kent trying to figure why he should be Superman, or why he should do good. I'd be fine with a "Birthright" style approach, where the character's desire to do good is pretty much innate, and he finds that simply being a journalist isn't enough for him. Superman becomes the means by which Clark Kent can be who he really is (the costume is how people on Krypton dress, etc.), instead of simply a contrived invention to become a "superhero" and move the plot along. "Birthright" strikes a pretty good balance between all of the different interpretations of the character, I think.

But really, I'd like to see them skip the origin altogether. Just treat it like a Bond film. This is another adventure and all that.

No to derail, but very quickly... that was a fantastic write-up and a brilliant article from Elizabeth Rape/Rappey/Rar-pay/Ripey/Ripple/Repe/Rizzfoshizzle. Really well written... Superman has absolutely no interest for me, but this is the first article to get me, at least a little... interested in the property. So kudos. More from Lizzy R and More from Andre D please...

Chud's been on fire these last couple of days!

That's another way to look at it. But Supes was raised as a human, and accepting Superman, his true identity, means never being able to live a full life on this planet as well. Now does he put on the red cape out of necessity or does he choose to?

This is a good angle to explore this character and I think it has more weight to it than wanting to do more than just journalism. And besides, it gets us out of Metropolis, which is something no other Superman movie has really done so far.

Well, here's how I see the Clark Kent/Superman divide: both identities are real and true, and essential to who Superman is. It's how he gets to live a full life, and I think it mirrors the idea of a modern person who fulfills the ideal of the engaged citizen. He (or she) has his 9 to 5, which he (or she) does well, and in his (or her) spare time he steps up and does the right thing. This is why I think the idea of going out of one's way to make a "political" Superman story is kind of superficial, as the central conceit of Superman is inherently political, and what usually happens is that some shitty writer will make a poorly thought out "issue" story that really has nothing of import to say.

Another misstep to be found in a lot of Superman material is the idea of a conflict between his two identities. The best Superman stories usually just run with the original idea and present the two identities for what they really are: Clark Kent and Superman are the same guy. The real choice that he's making isn't who he's going to be in a given moment, but rather which face he's going to show, which is something that everyone deals with every day. Moreover, this isn't a source of anguish for most, and many people in fact glory in switching "masks" now and then. But they still manage to be the same person under both guises.

A lot of people think that going the other direction makes the character interesting, but it usually just makes him boring, and those stories tend to be devoid of any joy or pleasure, which are things that the best Superman stories have in spades (Even some of the darker classic stories "end with a wink").

Well I guess we came at the root of our problem, we have inherently different views on who Superman is. No one's wrong or right, just different points of view I guess.

But I always viewed it from the "Clark Kent is the disguise" angle. And in order to come to this Clark Kent will have to go through something to accept his true identity, because he was raised as a human. This shift from odd human to god-like alien would be huge in his life.

Now for this movie it makes perfect sense to focus on this point of change in his life. That is, if the filmmakers have the same interpretation of the character as I do.

I could see a story where Superman has a crisis of faith. Questioning humanity and where he fits in then returning in the nick of time to defeat the big bad weather it be Darkseid, Zod or Lex.

or you could just go for 2 hours of Jon Hamm punching Big Robots. Present day or period piece, doesn't matter.

I do have to re-interate that the must keep the John Williams theme.

Whatever the script will be, I hope it won't be a story about Clark Kent traveling the world and wonder if he will become Superman; we don't need a movie about Clark wondering if he should don the tights or not. I do think some moviegoers will go see Man of Steel and ask about the whereabouts of Superman's kid from SR.

This. Bringing a belabored, dramatic examination of Clark Kent's inner life is just not what a Superman movie needs to be right now. That's a mistake Ang Lee's HULK made &, IMO, the result couldn't have been more tepid & uninteresting.

I don't get the Snyder hate out there. Are people really that homophobic that they couldn't handle a little blue cgi dick in their life?

This movie has so much potential, it is unreal. Snyder has done a fantastic job so far in his film catalogue and those that are worried it will be simply visually appealing seem to forget that most of his movies are action orientated. The dude knows out to grind out an action sequence.

As to the storyline itself? I 100% agree that the idea of a young Clark Kent wondering if he should or shouldn't be Superman is absolute shit and I'm positive that with the creative team in place.. that ain't the story. I could see a pseudo origin story similar to Watchmen where they panel out the highlights of Superman's birth to the big ol' giant S on his chest and maybe even delve into his first foray into the public spotlight. Fuck this has me excited.

I'm the biggest John Williams fan there is, and I adore the Superman theme.

That said, I don't want that theme for this iteration of Superman. It's really nothing against Williams at all. I just think if we're to cut all ties from the Donner/Singer films than a new theme is needed, even necessary.

Now, if they intend to make another Donneresque Superman movie, then by all means keep it. But I really hope Snyder's got something different up his sleeve.

...I agree. AND I'll fight you for the 'biggest John Williams fanboy out there' title. You're absolutely correct, what Superman needs is FRESH ears, eyes, and music is key. I'm not saying go the Zimmer route (ala the Batman Franchise) but find a new ear, Giacchino is Williams-lite but he may do a nice take. What I don't want is another John Ottman 'homage' score like last time. Line in the sand time, from the ground up this needs to be a 'new' Superman to get me onboard.

One of the greatest untapped composers lately is a guy by the name of Jesper Kyd who has written music for videogames - but his best work has been the Assassins Creed series. I'd love to hear his take on Superman.

I think they should take it a step further with this whole immigration-metaphor and have Lex Luthor constantly cry "See? Superman's not one of us! He's DIFFERENT! All Kryptonians are bad!" once General Zodd starts causing havoc and whatnot.

They couls have all the Kryptonians picking fruit, except, you know, really fast.

Seeing how Marvel is having characters crossover... I wonder if this film will take place within the same "Universe" as Green Lantern and the rumored Flash film?

And as far as the Superman theme goes... Williams score is fantatic, but it shouldn't be brought back. Elfman's is just as iconic in my opinion, and that wasn't brought back. Plus, I think it would link the new film to the old ones, which is the last thing I would like to see. New film, new superman, new start......

Sounds like another damn origin story to me, which would suck no matter how interesting the concept.

Superman needs to be epic and dramatic in scope not wandering around debating if he wants to be Superman.

The Kyrptonians-as-immigrants idea is interesting however.

Those of you saying Danny Elfman's Batman theme is as iconic as Williams' Superman theme: what's it like to have an awful, dank pit where your soul should be?

Agreed that they shouldn't use the theme again, though.

I bet it get's recogonized the same, if not more by general audiences.

Maybe on Earth-Terrible.

Comic book diss!

To me the theme is like James Bond, Indiana Jones and Star Wars. It's iconic, it's timeless. You know what it is when you hear it. And above all it works. So if it's not broke why fix it.

And yeah, Elfman's Batman isn't even in the same League.

I love the John Williams theme for Superman, and it is one of the all-time classics, but I agree that maybe it is time to do something new. Danny Elfman's Batman theme was also the signature score for that superhero, but Nolan did not use it in BB & TDK, and the movies did not suffer in any way. I think they can try a new score, although it will not replace Williams' score by any means.

I was thinking Mark Waid's "Birthright". But to be fair, that's always my answer/hope when people start talking up a new Superman film.

Yup, that's in "Birthright" too.

Lose the theme. Fleischer Bros cartoons had a good theme too. Enough tying this shit to Richard Donner's one and a half good movies.

In my mind the Williams theme is as much a part of the Superman iconography as the costume itself, and I would no sooner change one before the other.

I'm not going to see the movie in your mind.

There were plenty of classic Superman stories before the 1970's. It is completely absurd to assert that it is as important to the iconography as his costume.

NEW SCORE. The old score is classic, but this film needs it's own identity if it is to succeed.

Right. The score is tied to one very specific interpretation (granted, a very, very well-known interpretation) of the character. New movie, new score. Which would have been the tagline to the sequel had The Score been more successful.

Elfman's Batman score is great. If one thinks otherwise, I will happily collect and refrigerate a cup of my ball sweat, FedEx that chilled manly liquid right to your home address and await for your ecstatic phone call, exclaiming that you've not had a beverage so goddamn tasty in all your life.

Also, there was this girl I knew in the 3rd grade who kept repeating that line from the Mylanta commercial "My doctor said Mylanta", and she would crack up everytime, a few others would too, but not me, because if it was a joke, I didn't fucking get it. Still don't. That's exactly how I feel about the internet and robots (punching, fucking, killing, etc.). I do not get it.

Anyhoo, if you want an intriguing story, for all of its flaws, Brian Azzarello's "For Tomorrow" has a wonderful central conceit that has Superman using Phantom Zone technology to create a "perfect world" to house people in in the event that his mission to save mankind falls apart. Of course this leads to a huge clusterfuck. The great thing about Nolan and Goyer's two Batfilms, particularly TDK, is the way that they borrow liberally from many, many sources but create one cohesive story that feels fresh and interesting. The central conceit of "For Tomorrow", if nothing more than that, can, I think, serve them very well.

I've always seen it as Superman and the Clark Kent of Metropolis are both disguises for the real Clark as he is in Smallville with his family and friends. Both are exaggerations of his personality designed to make nobody connect the dots.

ETA: Birthright is definitely the best version of the Superman origin that's been done recently. Too bad its already been phased out for another one. The Geoff Johns Sliver Age/Donner-y angle is interesting, but its way too episodic, feeling more like snapshots from Superman's origin rather than a fluid narrative.

I know he recently composed a score for a certain science-fiction reboot, but Giacchino writing a fiery and bombastic Superman theme would be phenomenal. But you just know that Snyder will fight for ass-clown Tyler Bates, though.

So by that logic, shouldn't they have changed the signature James Bond theme when Connery left the role because it was very closely associated with him and his take on James Bond?