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The Billy Zane is Caledon Hockley in Titanic Appreciation Thread - Page 2

post #51 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
Say what you want about Titanic, but Victor Garber and Bernard Hill are unassailable.
Don't forget Kathy Bates and David Warner. Cameron has assembled some pretty exceptional casts throughout his career, but Titanic boasts one of the best ensembles, in my opinion.

But yeah, Garber is one of the absolute standouts in Titanic, even though he only has a few substantial moments and is mostly glimpsed in the background. Still, that final scene as he's sadly adjusting the clock in the smoking room during the montage of some of the passengers acknowledging that they're going to die...Garber owns the movie in terms of actors that were portraying their roles completely straight.
post #52 of 120
Thread Starter 
"I'm sorry for not building you a better ship, Rose." Enough said.
post #53 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Bernard Hill fixing his clock as the room tilts is the saddest scene in the entire film.
That was Garber. Hill was the captain.
post #54 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkraven28 View Post
Pardon me for having only just read the first page of this thread and I'm sorry if someone already mentioned this before, but how could we forget the truly most awesome moment of Mr. Zane's evil in Titanic.

I'm of course speaking of the moment where he chases the lovers deeper into the ship with a gun AS IT'S FUCKING SINKING. He has a one-sided chase and shoot with Rose and Leo and then he expects her to still get back with him afterward by looking all sad on the Carpathia when he's still searching for her? That's evil.

"I'm so sorry HONEYYYYYY!!! I chased after you and shot at you cuz of the diamond and cuz you banged DiCaprio but it's all good. He's dead and we're alive so just call it butterfingers, mmkay?"

He never said that on the Carpathia, but you know in his evil mind he was thinking it. That is why I love watching a Billy Zane performance. For the magic.
I am fairly certain that his concern was not about winning back his fiance's heart, but rather he was focused on recovering the Heart of the Ocean which he'd left in the coat he'd given her
post #55 of 120
Billy Zane is just about the only reason to watch or enjoy Titanic.
post #56 of 120
Thread Starter 
Thank you for that stunning contribution to the discussion, Kate. I missed it the first time it was brought up, as it's obvious you didn't read the thread.
post #57 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by RathBandu View Post
"I'm sorry for not building you a better ship, Rose." Enough said.
Close, but it's "I'm sorry I didn't build you a stronger ship, young Rose" instead.

There's some debate about the fate of Thomas Andrews because his body was never recovered (some accounts say that he was frantically throwing chairs in the water during his final moments to ensure that the drowning passengers had floating devices; the more popular account is that he was last seen staring at a painting, "Plymouth Harbor", in the first-class smoking room; in Cameron's version, he's adjusting a clock in the first-class smoking room by the fireplace, with the painting visible above), but what's incontrovertible is that he was an absolute hero, urging everyone he could to secure themselves and never deluding himself for a minute that they had any realistic chances of survival unless the proper safety procedures were observed. Overall, I think that he was treated well by Cameron in his film portrayal, because his working-class realism, intelligence and kindness were not only retained but emphasized in numerous scenes.

Quote:
Billy Zane is just about the only reason to watch or enjoy Titanic.
Am I the only one here who loves Titanic not solely because of Zane? Anyone? :P
post #58 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Bernard Hill fixing his clock as the room tilts is the saddest scene in the entire film.
That one is tied for me with that brief shot of the old couple holding each other in bed as the water rushes in. There's more love in that five-second shot than in the entirety of the Jack-Rose saga.
post #59 of 120
I still maintain that Jack/Rose is one of the best romances in a Cameron film and manages to be compelling enough in how their relationship is handled with such a sense of fun (table jig, the painting scene, etc), which is pretty respectable considering the technical spectacle that very often threatens to overshadow them.

Quote:
There's more love in that five-second shot than in the entirety of the Jack-Rose saga.
I'd argue that there's just as much love demonstrated in how Rose risks her life several times to free Jack, who trusts her enough to not chop his hands off with an axe, and then when he encourages her to take charge and lead a fulfilling life in spite of him at the end. It's certainly no Twilight. But I suppose we should be discussing Billy Zane as Cal and not our thoughts on the film as a whole.

So, yeah. Anyone think the mayor from TDK is a descendant of Zane's fictional Hockley?
post #60 of 120
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?

I have no idea if those two characters had memorable names/character or it was simply burned into my brain when those two repeatedly shouted each other's names.

Jack!

Rose!

Jack!

ROSE!

JACK!

ROOOOSE!
post #61 of 120
Well, in a movie that's over three hours and involves a tragedy in which communication would have been vital, I don't mind how their names are mentioned a fair amount. Certainly, it's not like I can't enjoy a lot of horror films in spite of the near-constant repetition of profanity because in some ways it works in the right context.
post #62 of 120
Hehehe, I'm mostly being glib. I just remember a friend complaining about it and haven't been able to NOT see it and laugh when I watch the movie.
post #63 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?

I have no idea if those two characters had memorable names/character or it was simply burned into my brain when those two repeatedly shouted each other's names.

Jack!

Rose!

Jack!

ROSE!

JACK!

ROOOOSE!
It is interesting you should point that out, as I've never heard anyone else talk about it. I really like TITANIC, but even back in the day my mom and I had a running "Jack! Rose!" joke. It's kind of hilarious, though I think the first time I saw the movie I was on the edge of my seat and missed the humor
post #64 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?
The Abyss?
post #65 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?
Paxton/Curtis was more convincing.
post #66 of 120
Point made!
post #67 of 120
Kyle Reese came across time for Sarah Connor. Just sayin'.
post #68 of 120
Saddest scene in the whole film for me is still Jeanette Goldstein reading her kids their last bedtime story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?
The Abyss would be the right answer here.
post #69 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
I like the Jack/Rose romance, but is there really much better to compare it to in Cameron's filmography?
I'll take Bud and Lindsay Brigman every day of the week and twice on Sundays thanks very much.
post #70 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post
Am I the only one here who loves Titanic not solely because of Zane? Anyone? :P
Like I said earlier, I far prefer it to AVATAR. Is it ridiculous it stole Best Picture from L.A. CONFIDENTIAL that year? Of course it is! But it's still a stirring and well-made cheeseball of a movie. And while Cameron's script is laughable at times, it also deftly explains the mechanics and deck plan of the ship so that you know exactly how and why the ship is sinking at all times. Plus ... Zane, Warner, Paxton, nekked Kate Winslet ...
post #71 of 120
All I know is that I had a huuuuuuge crush on Billy Zane up until Titanic. Reflecting on it now I have no idea why. Sniper maybe? I think young me liked that movie.

I was so annoyed that ol' Leo was the lead when the clearly dreamier and more awesome Zane should be the lead.
post #72 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker View Post
Rose was a selfish bitch for tossing that diamond.
Fuck YES. Pissed me the hell off when she did the whole "a woman's heart is an deep ocean of secrets" or whatever. Yeah, yeah, grammaw....you had a crazy adventure and learned to live life on your own terms. Now, let's see how well you can set your descendants up by auctioning off this priceless bauble some guy bought you when you were a dish.

I loved the smugness in Zane's dismissal of Leo when they were repairing to the smoking room for cigars and brandy. Arrogance worthy of Gene Hackman.
post #73 of 120
You know, Brock Lovett could have used the proceeds of the sale of the diamond. His expedition was running out of funding after all. I'm sure his crew would have appreciated getting paid.
post #74 of 120
Serves him right for spending so much on that cigar.

Honestly, I have a strange relationship with the movie. I first saw it on the afternoon after my divorce proceedings that morning. I watch it every few years just to see the dude fall and hit the prop and go cartwheeling into the ocean. And Winslet's boobs. And the forlorn hope that one time Leo will push the bitch off the table and save his own damn self and not be a pussy.

Wait....sorry....Hockley. He was the shit. Yeah.
post #75 of 120
I can't belive some talented artist never made a parody painting of Cal wearing the Heart of the Ocean necklace.
post #76 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkatthemoon View Post
I can't belive some talented artist never made a parody painting of Cal wearing the Heart of the Ocean necklace.
...in the Kate Winslet pose?
post #77 of 120
I kind of love Cal's relationship with Lovejoy. That little bit where Lovejoy knowingly bulldozes Jack and Rose's account of their meeting - and then keeps it to himself - makes me wish Warner had been given more to do.
post #78 of 120
The 3-disc SE has 45 minutes of deleted scenes. One has Jack and Lovejoy going fisticuffs.
post #79 of 120
All I ever asked is for Cameron to have filmed an actual scene of Cal blowing his brains out after the Stock Market Crashed where he lost his millions!
post #80 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
All I ever asked is for Cameron to have filmed an actual scene of Cal blowing his brains out after the Stock Market Crashed where he lost his millions!
Lord, doesn't this film have enough solo Russian Roullette?

<Best related image I could find>

post #81 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
Is it ridiculous it stole Best Picture from L.A. CONFIDENTIAL that year? Of course it is!
I have mixed feelings about that. LA Confidential may be better in a lot of ways, but it's not like it's grown in stature over the years or gets talked about as a modern classic very often, and given that Titanic still looms fairly large in culture, I think you could argue that the more significant film won. I mean, it's not like it beat a future film legend like Goodfellas or Pulp Fiction. If anything LA Confidential has benefited quite a bit from losing against Titanic because people probably wouldn't think about it nearly as often if not for the association.
post #82 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
I have mixed feelings about that. LA Confidential may be better in a lot of ways, but it's not like it's grown in stature over the years or gets talked about as a modern classic very often, and given that Titanic still looms fairly large in culture, I think you could argue that the more significant film won. I mean, it's not like it beat a future film legend like Goodfellas or Pulp Fiction. If anything LA Confidential has benefited quite a bit from losing against Titanic because people probably wouldn't think about it nearly as often if not for the association.
I frequently talk up LAC and personally feel it's a much better film than GOODFELLAS (not trying to start a fight, but let's just say the right movie won best picture back in 92). I'd certainly agree with you that TITANIC is more "significant", with LAC being "better", but after all, the award is Best Picture so , no, the right film did not win in 1997 IMHO. For this film fan at least, LAC is very much a modern classic: I watch it frequently, and I can count the number of times I've seen TITANIC since it hit video on one hand
post #83 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury318 View Post
All I know is that I had a huuuuuuge crush on Billy Zane up until Titanic. Reflecting on it now I have no idea why. Sniper maybe? I think young me liked that movie.

I was so annoyed that ol' Leo was the lead when the clearly dreamier and more awesome Zane should be the lead.
Great minds think alike! I was the right age for the Leo-craze that went on at the time, but I thought Billy Zane was so much more handsome. And awesome.
post #84 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
I have mixed feelings about that. LA Confidential may be better in a lot of ways, but it's not like it's grown in stature over the years or gets talked about as a modern classic very often, and given that Titanic still looms fairly large in culture, I think you could argue that the more significant film won. I mean, it's not like it beat a future film legend like Goodfellas or Pulp Fiction. If anything LA Confidential has benefited quite a bit from losing against Titanic because people probably wouldn't think about it nearly as often if not for the association.
You're talking to the wrong people.

LA Confidential is the very definition of a classic.
post #85 of 120
Yeah, Paul C had better hope that Rath has adjusted to his new meds or whatever was making him so pissy lately. Otherwise he's gonna be stomping in with guns blazing real quick.
post #86 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledork View Post
And the forlorn hope that one time Leo will push the bitch off the table and save his own damn self and not be a pussy.
It drives me crazy that he never went to get his own piece of something to float on. There's a point before he finally kicks where everybody is pretty much dead, so it's not like he'd have to fight somebody for a floatation device. I know he didn't want to leave Rose, but come on, man.

A friend of mine used to say that if they had rotated positions every few minutes or so, they would have both survived.
post #87 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
A friend of mine used to say that if they had rotated positions every few minutes or so, they would have both survived.
Yeah but that wouldn't have worked with that excerable Celine Dion song playing in the background now would it?
post #88 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
It drives me crazy that he never went to get his own piece of something to float on. There's a point before he finally kicks where everybody is pretty much dead, so it's not like he'd have to fight somebody for a floatation device. I know he didn't want to leave Rose, but come on, man.

A friend of mine used to say that if they had rotated positions every few minutes or so, they would have both survived.
In such frigid conditions, Bear Grylls teaches that you have only a few minutes before your muscles begin to seize up and you can drown

They'd have risked not being able to crawl back on the door had they attempted to switch IMHO
post #89 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post
You're talking to the wrong people.

LA Confidential is the very definition of a classic.
And then some. L.A. CONFIDENTIAL is one of the very best films of that entire decade.

Although ...

I always say TITANIC stole CONFIDENTIAL's Oscar because both of those films were nominated for Best Picture. But, when considering everything released that year, CONFIDENTIAL was actually the second best film of 1997.

post #90 of 120

Ah, this thread.  Thanks to Chris's Titanic thread for helping me stumble across it again!

post #91 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Ah, this thread.  Thanks to Chris's Titanic thread for helping me stumble across it again!


Could never let go
post #92 of 120

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m380wnIKBv1rumlmmo2_500.gif

 

 

post #93 of 120

So! Finally, finally watched this tonight. And you know what? I wasn't blown away or anything, but it was surprisingly damn good. Especially the second half, when everything goes to hell and it turns into a slow-burn disaster movie.

 

Zane is indeed amazing ("AND I PUT THE COAT ON HER!"), as are the ever-dependable David Warner, Kathy Bates, Bernard Hill, and Victor Garber. The latter two get the best emotional moments in the movie. Though initially I was half-paying attention to Garber's Irish accent, which resulted in a "Wait, when did you turn Irish?" moment.

 

Leo and Kate are fine, they're just given the least interesting roles to play. The effects hold up quite well, and the SCALE is still mighty impressive, especially as everything goes to hell.

post #94 of 120

More random thoughts:

 

-I have no idea what the hell kind of accent Zane was going for (British? Snooty New Yorker? Chicago?), and that just makes his performance even more hilarious. Also hilarious: the brief chase he has shooting at Jack and Rose WHILE THE SHIP IS SINKING. It just... kills the tension for about a minute or two because of how overblown it is. "I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR TIME TOGETHER!"

 

-I wanted to punch Danny Nucci in the face after about a minute. If he really sounds like that, I apologize, but I kept expecting him to ask about someone named Mario.

 

-Good Irish accent: Victor Garber. BAD Irish accent: Jason Barry.

 

-The "Nearer My God To Thee" sequence is probably the best sustained one in the film. It has all the great little emotional moments: the elderly couple on the bed, Garber adjusting the clock and staring at the picture, Hill going down with the ship, and of course "Gentlemen, it has been a privilege playing with you tonight".

 

-As awful as Rose's mother is, I do really like the silent way Frances Fisher plays the realization that half the people on the ship will die. Really, Fisher's fine throughout, but her character (save for a couple moments) is a total caricature like the rest of them.

 

-The scene where the lifeboats are discovering the frozen bodies is scary as hell.

 

-Honestly, the brief bits Kathy Bates and Leo had together kinda makes me want to see them in a son-daughter movie. They have a nice, understated chemistry in that area.

 

-Really, Leo's not bad in this at all. He just has some of the worst lines in the script, but then so does Kate ("I want you to draw me like one of your French girls" nearly made me gag). I think they do a rather nice job of selling the romance since it happens so damn quickly.

 

-The story seems paced quite well, it's just that half the dialogue is awesomely cheesy/dorky. And Cameron banging on the doom-foreshadowing drum got tiresome VERY quickly. My response when Leo's all happy about getting to be on the Titanic: "OK, WE GET IT CAMERON."

 

-No disrespect to Gloria Stuart, but the narration got a little tiresome after about an hour, so I was glad it mostly shut up once the ship began sinking. I agree with the assessment that Bill Paxton looks totally lost in the framing material, although I do kind of like how he plays the last conversation with Rose's granddaughter.

 

So yeah, it's not great by any stretch, but I still enjoyed myself immensely. Especially the second half, which is certainly a better disaster movie than any of Roland Emmerich's.

post #95 of 120

Quote:
BAD Irish accent: Jason Barry.

 

Jason Barry is Irish.  I have no idea what his accent sounds like normally, though.

post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

-I wanted to punch Danny Nucci in the face after about a minute. If he really sounds like that, I apologize, but I kept expecting him to ask about someone named Mario.

Looking at his IMDB page, I find that I've seen him in a few things, but when I watched "Crimson Tide" for the first time a few weeks ago, it was the first time I recognized him as 'Leo's friend from Titanic' in something else. I can tell you there's no need to apologize because yes, his voice in "Titanic" is a total put-on voice and one of lamest stereotypical Italian accents you could ever hear. He sounds like your regular Average Joe American in "Crimson Tide".

 

I caught a bit of "Titanic" on TV recently, and I'd just like re-iterate how hilarious Billy Zane was in it, and how disappointed I am that the movie wasn't as much a springboard to greater stardom and many good roles for him as it was for Kate and Leo. The part where he erupts with "My fiancé...MY FIANCÉ!!!!!!!!!!!" as he knocks over the table is still my favourite part of the whole damn movie.

post #97 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post

 

Jason Barry is Irish.  I have no idea what his accent sounds like normally, though.

 

...Wow, then I have no idea what the hell happened there.

post #98 of 120
I'm pretty sure Zane manages to twirl his mustache without actually having a mustache in this movie, that is worthy of some respect right there. For absolute balls-out ham-tastic over-the-top cartoon villainy, Jeremy Irons in Dungeons & Dragons is still the reigning champion, but Zane definitely gives Cameron his money's worth.

As far as the movie, I have to agree that it's surprisingly pretty good, when it isn't focused on the Blandest Star-Crossed Romance Ever. I wonder if more people aren't just taken off-guard by years of avoiding it due to the absolutely relentless hype when it came out; I know I was.
post #99 of 120

"LET THEIR BLOOD RAIIIIIIN FROM THE SKYYYY!" God, I love Irons in Dungeons and Dragons. It's his best bad performance.

post #100 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

So! Finally, finally watched this tonight. And you know what? I wasn't blown away or anything, but it was surprisingly damn good. Especially the second half, when everything goes to hell and it turns into a slow-burn disaster movie.

 

Zane is indeed amazing ("AND I PUT THE COAT ON HER!"), as are the ever-dependable David Warner, Kathy Bates, Bernard Hill, and Victor Garber. The latter two get the best emotional moments in the movie. Though initially I was half-paying attention to Garber's Irish accent, which resulted in a "Wait, when did you turn Irish?" moment.

 

Leo and Kate are fine, they're just given the least interesting roles to play. The effects hold up quite well, and the SCALE is still mighty impressive, especially as everything goes to hell.

I'm glad you liked the film. It's definitely one of Cameron's most impressive feats. I've been reading over this thread since it got bumped to the top and it's been a good deal of fun reading you guys argue over the merits of Titanic. I come down on the side of it being a good though imperfect film, with impressive production values and technical accomplishments on a historic scale.

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