The Un-Scary 90's - Page 2

Horror fandom considers the late 70's to mid 80's a golden age.

No worries. I've just seen it a lot lately and decided to take it out on this thread.

Yup. I do too. Course I'm a horror fan, so there you go.

The closest thing the 90's had to something special was Full Moon Entertainment, but their output I think is more of a generational niche and thus not fully relevant here.

The reasons that people say cinema shit the bed in the 80's are the exact same reasons that horror movies were great in the 80's. Go figure.

*sigh* I watched A LOT of Full Moon Entertainment releases. I still have a Bad Channels poster around here somewhere.

The 90s sucked. When the inevitable rehash comes along I'll shake my head and tell the kids, "It was a crap decade, sonny. Just watch Puppet Master 4."

I'm with ya man.

I've never gotten the Full Moon thing. I think it's for people who were teens in the 90's and I'm too old.

Hold up. You mean I'm not the only one who saw all the SUBSPECIES and TRANCERS movies, then sent off for that catalog where they sold Puppet Master puppets for $100 a pop? I feel less alone now.

The fiscal element of this is that the drive-in's were dying and the studios squeezed out the B movie studios. It took the studios a while to figure out how to do low budget horror in house.

Yeah, not really apologizing. Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions. [/derail]

No, sir. I stand beside you in that sad sad line. I actually looked forward to those awful video "magazines" after the movies to see what other cool shit was coming our way.

Count yourself lucky Sebastian. You dodged a bullet of suck.

Why are you so brilliant?

There was an excellent article in a Fangoria anniversary issue that addressed just that. Cronenberg still had some juice despite the M. Butterfly debacle. Carpenter shit the bed. Argento...the less said the better. Dante wasn't working in horror anymore. Landis did Innocent Blood which is ok but never more than that. Craven did Scream. And, yeah, that's it. Unless I missed someone.

ETA: Vampire in Brooklyn. Hang your head, Craven. Hang your head.

Yeah, the masters were either off their game (Romero, Carpenter) or going mainstream (Cronenberg, Raimi).

I left Romero off there didn't I? Fuck man. I'm slipping.

ETA: I also just recalled from the same Fango article: Clive Barker with Lord of Illusions. No one really defends that film do they? I saw it once, didn't hate it and never thought of it again. Until now....

Hmm, I must have been confused by the word "sorry," which actually appeared in your post:

Must have been sarcasm. My bad. And, you know, I was ready to just ignore the fact that your excuse made no sense. AUDITION was first mentioned yesterday at 9:51 p.m. That's a long time to have the "Post Reply" page open!

Okay, I'm rereading this and realizing how childish I'm being. Time to stop. Better add something beneficial to the conversation. Hmm ...

As has been discussed, horror films became very self-referential in the 90s. You all have talked about SCREAM. Don't forget NEW NIGHTMARE (which I actually keep trying to do). I guess a lot depends on your tolerance for the meta.

YES. I actually own that film on DVD and still didn't think of it. ILLUSIONS is criminally underrated. (People watching it now might not be able to get past the early CGI.)

Yeah, compare Gulf War and post to 9/11 and post. Some tensions needed to be worked out onscreen for the latter. Not so much during the former.
I didn't. See post 7.

NIGHTBREED (love it) happened in 1990 and then it went downhill from there, till shit got scary again thanks to our xenophobia in full effect a decade later. Terrorists, home invasion, reality television (Survivor started in 2000!). Scary.

There's another thread I was just reading about the difficulty of adding humor and horror. While I realize this isn't necessarily the same thing, I do think that this is at least partially the reason horror began to go so damn wrong during the 90s. It creates this "seen it all mentality" that really kills any suspension of disbelief.

Goddamnit! Now, I'm officially a huge hypocrite! This thread is no good for me, and I deserve whatever's comin'.

Moving on ...

So I guess while others tried different genres, or got too self-referential, Barker tried his best to get weirder, darker and/or scarier in the 90s. (What with ILLUSIONS, NIGHTBREED and CANDYMAN having all been discussed.)

LULZ

And Full Moon rocked. Not anymore. But it did. Once upon a time.

I don't think it was shitty...Exorist 3, lost Highway, Tremors The Prophecy and The Puppet Masters as well as those already mentioned were all good to great.

Also worth remembering that horrific imagery really entered the mainstream, thanks to Silence, and of course to old Quentin. When male rape S&M imagery is a major part of a oscar contender, horror had to regroup.

I always wondered with films like LORD OF ILLUSIONS and EVENT HORIZON (and as a kid I loved both these films, but haven't revisited in a long time) whether people 'liked' them because that's all they had.

I like EVENT HORIZON. I don't want to, but I do. I've watched it several times hoping the sass-mouthed black guy would finally make me shut the door on it forever, but no. I get sucked back in. I can't quit you, EVENT HORIZON.

Great. Now I need to revisit Event Horizon and Lord of Illusions. Good question there, Spike. I was pretty starved for anything from the genre growing up where I did and when I did. Suncoast video changed a lot of that with their Widescreen VHS section though. I still have my Maniac tape I bought there.

Yeah EVENT HORIZON is weird. Because it's watchably mediocre. It's got so much potential that each time I see it I expect it to be better than it is. But it's still terrible despite the fantastic set-design (save those stupid chairs) and insanely strong cast.

I don't know, when your only other option for claustrophobic 'space horror' is SPHERE I guess EVENT HORIZON seems like the SHINING.

Also, I know for a fact that LORD OF ILLUSIONS is terrible. But my <3 for all things Clive Barker and the fact I was 11 or 12 when I 'found' it on Sky Movies make me think back on it warmly.

LORD OF ILLUSIONS is bad, unless your idea of a kick-ass noirish hero is Scott Bakula.

Or if you're utterly terrified of Daniel van Bargen and Kevin J. O'Connor.

It's kind of pitiful that each time I see O'Connor all I can think of is his retarded death on that revolving table of sword doom.

That scene totally works for me, but it might be because of the bitchin' score. (By some dude named Simon Boswell, who I know next to nothing about. But I really like his work in this movie.)

And say what you will about ILLUSIONS, but it plays its horror straight.

EVENT HORIZON is poop. I'd rather watch FLATLINERS (another sub-par '90s "thriller"). Wait. Actually I wouldn't, but you catch my meaning.

I don't know if this is at all related, but it seems fitting that ED WOOD would come out in the '90s, when ironic appreciation of bad horror films was at an all time high.

I'm just waiting for someone to make the case for Quicksilver Highway and my trifecta of 'omg! What was I thinking?' movies will be complete.

I will fight anyone who disparages Demon Knight though. I will fight to the death for that movie, not so much Bordello of Blood.

Also going back to my hypothesis about horror films in the 90s not really knowing what they want to be (even my beloved CANDYMAN tries to have its cake and eat it with regards to the nature of Candyman himself) the two Alien films released in the 90s both seem unsure as to how to handle the creatures themselves. How to make them scary, how to use them to play on peoples fears.

As much as I may grumble about it ALIENS has a very clear throughline about what makes the critters scary, ALIEN 3 just doesn't have a raison d'etre for its beastie and RESURRECTION just doesn't give a fuck.

Speaking of 90's horror, right now I'm half watching this 90's British show I never heard of called SHE WOLF OF LONDON. It's about a, well, she-wolf. In London. Spike, you're British, remember this one? Is it well regarded?

Yeah Lords of Illusion is pretty dull. I remember enjoying Cast a Deadly Spell much more, but that maybe because of the better cast.

Not really, it was one of those shows SKY got behind early in their existence, the comedy was much better than the horror elemtns. Kate Hodge was a cutie, thou as the lead...

Just googled it, I would have been about six years old when the show originally premiered, so no. Can't help you.

Ask me all you want about the original Ultraviolet or Killer Net or Chimera though.

I keep glancing up at it as I work and there's been some pretty intense stuff for 90's TV. Maybe you Brits are used to harder stuff, but this would have scared the crap out of me if I was a kid. Way more freaky than Doctor Who.

Horror also went a little mainstream in the 90s, but the problem there is, in some cases, the films almost cease to fit snugly in the horror genre. Google any list of of the best horror films of that decade, and you'll see, over and over again: SE7EN, SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, SLEEPY HOLLOW, BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, JACOB'S LADDER, THE FRIGHTENERS, etc.

Yeah, I guess some of those are horror movies. But not horror horror movies, ya know?

I'm hesitant to start naming more movies, lest I jam my foot deep, deep into my throat again, but I remember quite enjoying BODY PARTS when it came out. (Always a sucker for Fahey. Haven't seen it since.) Same goes for Gordon's PIT AND THE PENDULUM. Somebody tell me they're actually terrible so I can continue on not rewatching them.

I could never get the love for Event Horizon. Its completely lackluster and superficial execution is only made worse by the fact that it has one of the greatest horror premises ever. For squandering that my hate for it is much amplified.

Fuck that movie.

BODY PARTS is as terrible as FREAKED (ie, NOT). It's a better comedy than a horror film, but it's still a lot of fun.

I love the shit out of EVENT HORIZON. I've seen a LOT of horror movies and for some reason it's one of the few that actually manage to creep me out.

It wasn't aimed at kids, IIRC it was shown at 22.30 or later. I saw it as a teen and never really cared for it.... and anyway we brits don't talk about 90s Dr Who. It's just not the done thing

I dislike the film, but the line "Hell is just a word, the reality is much, much worse" was fab

I'm sorry. Your country both fascinates and confuses me.

And MST3K spanned that entire decade.
I remember liking the pilot ep well enough. I should crack open that DVD set again soon.

I'm also wondering how much wonky early CG started to effect the genre and practical FX were ignored for the new flashy toy. I remember the Latex Masters working a lot less. Practical transformations (AMER WW IN LONDON VS PARIS) and puppet/suit/stop-motion monsters seen as "old school". Bah. CG just doesn't scare me like practical does. Waiting to be proven wrong here.

I also think that casting plays a part. Remember all the floating heads on the Dimension Home Vid cases? More of a WB model shoot than grindhouse/drive-in feel. Less realistic cast. Not that there weren't gorgeous women and guys in horror in the 80s (Crampton!), but there seemed more of an attention on natural beauties in the low budget schlock. And no names. In the 90s, studios were placing name celebs in the horror. I always feel when I'm watching a "persona" on the screen, there's a little lost in the immersion dpt. Less real, less scary IMO.

Not to mention film stock. The slick HD vid just isn't scary like the grainy film of the 70s, no matter what After FX filter you put on it.

And I liked PHANTOMS for what it was. Shoot me. Probably my crush on Going, fondness for Schreiber in creepy mode, loyalty to Bottin (despite the reliance on CG here), and love for anything resembling Lovecraft. Plus, Ben Affleck was the bomb, yo.

I think what you describe is by-product of horror moving into the mainstream more in the 90s, as others have pointed out. Alot of the well remembered horrors movies from the period placed more emphasis on entertainment than strict scares (Tremors, Scream, The Puppet Masters, The Frightners etc) and thus went with the slicker GCFX.

Plus it doesn't help that the best visual FX horror of the 80s bombed at the BO...

I don't think THE THING finding its audience (not at the BO but) later could have effected the studios' 90s decisions behind using practical FX, do you? I thought it was all about the "OOH NEW SHINEY TECHNOLOGY PUBLIC WILL LIKEY". At that time period, ILM was the only one who did it half way decent (JP). Anyone one else early on (SPAWN, AMER WW IN PARIS) looked dated before it was released.

Making CG scary is hard (hello, I AM LEGEND). THE MIST is the closest and maybe BLADE 2. I hope DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE DARK will also succeed.

But I digress... Sorry for the FX derail.

I still say the 90's was hurt by not having a horror subgenre in which it excelled and eventually over-did. Or I just can't think of what it was.

I just want to say that you guys discuss the genre with more intelligence and enthusiasm than any other group of folks I have encountered. This really has made my day.

I kinda touched on this in an earlier post but it does bear a little further discussion I think. Despite the sad state of affairs with 90s genre production the collectors market really boomed during the decade. Elite laserdiscs, Goodtimes Video and Anchor Bay became forces to be reconned with. Mail order houses like Blackest Heart Media began cropping up and distributing some unheard of gems. Mainstream horror mags like Fangoria began to cover older stuff from that fabled golden age because the dross that was hitting the cinema was just not cutting it for fans of the genre.

So in a way some good came out of the 90s wasteland. It forced fans and distributors alike to reach back and rediscover stuff by Argento, Fulci, Lustig, Romero and all those guys. It also created an subindustry of cleaning these old films up and presenting them letterboxed for the first time. Those early Anchor Bay tapes were incredible for me as a kid. I never had a laserdisc player but now I could see these awesome older films it what seemed at the time like pristine new transfers. I'd never heard a commentary track put now I could see deleted scenes and trailers and interviews after the main feature was over. Some of the boxes even had liner notes.

Sorry for such a trip down memory lane. I'll stop now.

True, but don't forget the VHS explosion in the 80's. Most video rental stores had a whole section devoted to Horror titles (2nd only to the P0rn section), there was a real "forbidden" vibe to all those films, from the classics to the slasher films. Hence, the money flowed.