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Se7en (1995)

post #1 of 30
10/15/10 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Can’t believe we don’t have a thread for this. Maybe I searched wrong, I DarkMited it and everything.

Anyways.

“This isn’t even my desk”

I gravitate between this and Zodiac as my favourite Fincher film. I’ve got an issue with Fight Club’s fan base which makes it hard for me to see eye to eye with the film and for all of the hemming and hawing I do about the relative merits of Alien3 it still sits alongside The Game and Panic Room as lesser or compromised Fincher.

Se7en and Zodiac both perform this amazing high wire act by being deeply serious in their own ways and deeply humourus. Se7en is grim and gritty, it almost feels like the archetype for the ideal, but counters it against some truly hilarious dialogue and some really nicely done ‘slow’ scenes between Mills and Somerset. It’s dark and grim, but there is a sly wit at work and it makes the ending work, because you like Mills, and Somerset and Tracey. They’re not perfect, but they’re rounded and likeable.

One of my favourite things about the film is the way in which the film keeps focusing on Somerset’s knife, it’s focused on through the entire film. We even see him throw it around a few times and so the expectation is that it’s going to be a big thing, then it’s used to open the box at the end.

It’s still something of a Chekov’s gun, but it’s such a fun twist on what you expect. I’m way aboard the Brad Pitt lovetrain and I’m usually the first to speak his praises, but he really is overshadowed in this film by Freeman. There’s still the patented Freeman sage like quality, but there’s a darkness and sadness to Somerset which is really well played. Pitt does well, but it’s a really twitchy performance. It’s the sort of thing he does a lot in his earlier work and it’s a tendency he seems to have exorcised now, but there’s something agitated about him which just feels off. Which is probably the point.

As an addendum, this looks AMAZING on Blu-Ray. Definitely worth an upgrade if you have it on DVD.

Anyways, thoughts?
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post #2 of 30
10/15/10 at 10:40pm
I'm a fan of Se7en. The scene in the hotel room with the 'dead' body scared the hell out of me the first time I saw the movie years ago. Kevin Spacey was creepy as hell in his small but pivotal role of John Doe.
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post #3 of 30
10/16/10 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Matrix View Post
I'm a fan of Se7en. Kevin Spacey was creepy as hell in his small but pivotal role of John Doe.
The long dialogue scene between John Doe and the two detectives in the car is my favorite scene in the whole movie. Great writing with all three actors kicking ass.
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post #4 of 30
10/16/10 at 12:32am
I thought Pitt's jittery ADHD agitation was supposed to sort of highlight how he wasn't really focusing on the here and now, and his head was in a million different places. It's how he lost track of what was happening at home, and how Ms Paltrow ended up in the box

Great film, I own the Criterion Cut (I think, or else it's just a great DVD set). I remember first hearing the plot from a camp councilor as a scary story in the summer of 1996, so by the time I finally saw it, it already held a special place in my imagination. There have been so many imitators since Se7en first came out, it can sometimes be easy to forget the power of the original, but Fincher's direction and command of the menacing tone is top notch and unmatched in later years by Se7en wannabes like SAW
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post #5 of 30
10/16/10 at 6:57pm
I love that diner scene between Somerset and Tracey. Reveals so much about both of them in just a few minutes.

I watched this for the first time in like four years a few weeks ago and I noticed Somerset's habit of folding napkins. It just demonstrates his methodical nature.
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post #6 of 30
10/16/10 at 8:08pm
"A WOMAN!"

I completely DEVOURED the fantastic composition notebook special edition DVD that came out all those years ago. It's strange. I don't think I've ever considered the film one of my favorites, but it is one I watched and read about quite a bit. Checked out the BFI book on it by Richard Dyer from my university's library as I dug into the commentaries (which also featured Dyer).

Is there anything new to the features on the blu-ray? Or is everything pretty much ported over from the DVD?
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post #7 of 30
10/20/10 at 2:49pm
It's sort of interesting and at the same time depressing to think of a film like Seven being a precursor to dreck like Saw but the influences of the former can definitely be felt in the ideas of the latter. I might call Seven the granddaddy of the "righteously motivated serial killer" archetype, even, and Saw the miscreant teenage grandson. But then again I might be jerking off. In the end, Seven is a bit of thriller/horror executed so perfectly that the entire grim picture feels really beautiful. I won't at all hesitate to call it my favorite Fincher film, in the slightest.

I actually love the fuck out of Pitt's performance here. Seven's got the kind of conceit at its core that induces a sense of unease in its audiences, so arguably it doesn't need any help on that score, but Mills is perhaps even more unsettled than we are. He's definitely agitated, obviously uncomfortable, and for me that really underscores the dread that slowly creeps up and builds in our minds as the story unfolds. It's sort of a "get me in the mood" kind of thing, I guess. Of course Freeman and Spacey both run circles around him but Pitt, I think, brings something very valuable to this picture in giving us "twitchy".
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post #8 of 30
11/28/10 at 12:06am
DAMN, that was good. Y'all in The Social Network thread weren't kidding when you said that I had much to look forward to with Fincher's other films, and this is marvelous proof.

I think what I like most about this film is that the only murder we see is that of the villain; we only see the aftermath of John Doe's other killings, and it's far more horrific, especially thanks to Rob Bottin's gruesome makeup and effects work. The performances are par excellence, and it's nice to see R. Lee Ermey get a different type of role.

Great stuff.
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post #9 of 30
11/28/10 at 12:31am
Get. To. Zodiac! Such a different film for him...
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post #10 of 30
11/28/10 at 10:14am
If we're gonna give the boy a Fincher road map from here:

Fight Club---->Alien 3 Workprint----->Panic Room----->The Game----->Zodiac

The important thing to take away from this? Fight Club. NOW.
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post #11 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

The important thing to take away from this? Fight Club. NOW.
While he's still an angry young man! HURRY!
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post #12 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
If we're gonna give the boy a Fincher road map from here:

Fight Club---->Alien 3 Workprint----->Panic Room----->The Game----->Zodiac

The important thing to take away from this? Fight Club. NOW.
Where would Seven, Social Network and Benjamin Button go on that roadmap? And I thought Zodiac was considered one of his best...
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post #13 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post
Where would Seven, Social Network and Benjamin Button go on that roadmap? And I thought Zodiac was considered one of his best...
It's possibly his best, period. But in terms of really roaming through his filmography, thats just the order I'd tackle it.

If we were starting from scratch, Se7en's definitely first. Social Network before Zodiac. I could do without Benjamin Button entirely, truth be told.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
While he's still an angry young man! HURRY!
Thats not that far off from what I was thinking, actually.
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post #14 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I could do without Benjamin Button entirely, truth be told.
Thats not that far off from what I was thinking, actually.
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post #15 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:32pm
On the Fincher Road Map, BENJAMIN BUTTON is a serious wrong turn. I'd skip that offramp entirely. And I say that as a huge Fincher fan. It was pandering, Oscarbait dreck, beautifully-crafted but catastrophically hollow. It really felt like Fincher woke up one morning and decided he had some shelf space to fill so why not get that Oscar thingy some of his peers had in their living rooms?

And yes, ZODIAC is, in my opinion, his best film. But FIGHT CLUB and SEVEN aren't far behind.
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post #16 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:33pm
See, I saw Button first (what a lovely, well-acted piece of tripe), then Network, and Seven last night. I'll probably watch Fight Club tonight, and the other non-Alien 3 films are near the top of my Netflix queue.

Wish me luck!
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post #17 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:35pm
This film is a great example of both how some time between viewings can really make a difference, and how a story - be it film, book, or otherwise - both remains the same and yet "changes" as you change, mature and grow.

I first saw this when it came out on VHS; intensely disliked it, though I admired the visual and production design elements. It depressed me, disturbed me, and I had no desire to see it again.

Almost ten years go by...and I watch it on DVD. It felt like watching an entirely different film, like I was watching it for the first time. Loved it. Loved every dank, rusted and amazing moment of it. Yes, it's dark and disturbing and unsettling. It's supposed to be. It also has, through Somerset, Tracy and Mills, a thread of hope and humanity.
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post #18 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:36pm
Nowhere to go but up!

You don't need luck.
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post #19 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
I actually love the fuck out of Pitt's performance here. Seven's got the kind of conceit at its core that induces a sense of unease in its audiences, so arguably it doesn't need any help on that score, but Mills is perhaps even more unsettled than we are. He's definitely agitated, obviously uncomfortable, and for me that really underscores the dread that slowly creeps up and builds in our minds as the story unfolds. It's sort of a "get me in the mood" kind of thing, I guess. Of course Freeman and Spacey both run circles around him but Pitt, I think, brings something very valuable to this picture in giving us "twitchy".
Brad Pitt seems more often than not to be a very busy actor on screen and this is the film which best employs that energy for me. A lot of time that business comes across as something close to hammy, but in Seven it comes across as very human.

It's my favourite Spacey performance too. He always plays some variation on "smug", and this is the absolute perfect character for that, perhaps matched only by his work in The Usual Suspects.
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post #20 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:42pm
As unforgivingly dark as SEVEN is, I also love that it has these random great, funny lines in the middle of all the evil that's unfolding. Things like: "If John Doe's head splits open and a UFO flies out, I'll want you to have expected it." Everyone remembers how disturbing SEVEN is (and it most certainly is) but there's quite a bit of humor throughout.
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post #21 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:46pm
Pitt plays Mills in deep, deep denial that the world is as shitty as Somerset had come to believe. He's twitchy whenever that optimism gets threatened, and he's so very subdued and normal in other scenes, especially when with Tracy, that it's got to be a conscious choice.
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post #22 of 30
11/28/10 at 2:47pm
It's a little bit TOO cute, but I still love Spacey's delivery of, "I didn't do that..." at the sight of the dog carcass. Mills' use of Cliff Notes was also a chuckle-worthy (and totally relatable for me) detail.

The commentary track pretty much confirms your thoughts, Justin. Pitt sometimes played Mills as a bit of a antsy spazz, constantly jabbing the air with his finger to make a point, expending all the energy that contrasted well with Somerset's efficiency of movement. It was a good combo.
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post #23 of 30
11/28/10 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litmus Configuration View Post
As unforgivingly dark as SEVEN is, I also love that it has these random great, funny lines in the middle of all the evil that's unfolding. Things like: "If John Doe's head splits open and a UFO flies out, I'll want you to have expected it." Everyone remembers how disturbing SEVEN is (and it most certainly is) but there's quite a bit of humor throughout.
And, of course, "This is not even my desk." I love that Ermey doesn't even yell it like we expect him to, but he's matter-of-fact. I like Spacey's "I didn't do that..." as well, and Pitt has the great line "Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda!"

So yeah, it's quite funny in places.
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post #24 of 30
11/28/10 at 3:08pm
I've always been partial to "Bondage?", "Not what you think", "Okay."
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post #25 of 30
11/28/10 at 3:12pm
Somerset's irritation at the guy scratching his name off his office door is funny.

Fincher's irritation at having to wait for that guy to come to that day's shoot (the guy was someone kinda famous and Fincher didn't know or give a shit)... even funnier.
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post #26 of 30
11/28/10 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
I've always been partial to "Bondage?", "Not what you think", "Okay."
Yeah, that's another good one. Pitt and Freeman make a great team here; have they done anything else like this together?
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post #27 of 30
12/1/10 at 7:02am
You should also check out Fincher's traumatizing commercial work! That man continues his ability to scar even in short bursts!

From 2007:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM124k2JU8c

Oh ho ho ho ho!
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post #28 of 30
12/1/10 at 9:14am
I remember reading an interview (or it might've been in the commentary) about Fincher and Pitt reading the first draft of the script which included the head in a box ending and absolutely loving it, by the time Fincher got ahold of the writer, it had already gone through multiple drafts and the original ending had been scrapped for a more conventional ending. Fincher immediately got the writer to go back to that ending.
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post #29 of 30
12/2/10 at 10:42pm
The ending makes me sick to my stomach. In a good way. It's one of those endings that makes you angry. I thought I hated it at first(I think I first watched this when i was 15 or 16) but the more time I've had to digest the more it grew on me. The ending with Freeman's character shooting Jon Doe would of been a diaster.

Oh, and I can't stand it when people compare Saw to this.
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post #30 of 30
12/3/10 at 12:38am
edit: bad post.
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