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Should drugs be legalised?

post #1 of 69
10/21/10 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
It should at least be tried.

Proposition 19 is looming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...ition_19_(2010)

What are your thoughts?

This article makes a great case for legalising drugs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...s-legalisation

Drugs will always be a challenge to individual and communal discipline, alongside alcohol and nicotine. The curse is different: the declaration by states that some drugs are illegal and that those who supply and use them are criminals. This is the root of the evil.

By outlawing products – poppy and coca – that are in massive global demand, governments merely hand huge untaxed profits to those outside the law and propagate anarchy. Repressive regimes, such as some Muslim ones, have managed to curb domestic alcohol consumption, but no one has been able to stop the global market in heroin and cocaine. It is too big and too lucrative, rivalling arms and oil on the international monetary exchanges. Forty years of "the war on drugs" have defeated all-comers, except political hypocrites.
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post #2 of 69
10/21/10 at 11:43am
After prostitution and gambling, yes.
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post #3 of 69
10/21/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Nunziata View Post
After prostitution and gambling, yes.
I can sort of get the hesitancy about prostitution (even if I don't agree with it), but I simply don't understand why gambling is such a big taboo. Yes, people can become addicted and blow tons of money on it. Like they can with the perfectly legal state lotteries.
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post #4 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:03pm
Yes, legalisation of marijuana is inevitable and a good thing. Look at how many people are overcrowding the prison system because of minor drug offences.
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post #5 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:07pm
Absolutely. But I'm biased.
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post #6 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:10pm
Yes and yes. Let people handle their own vices, which is, *gasp*, really what goes on right now.

People that want to get loaded on heroin... find a way to do that just fine as it is.
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post #7 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:10pm
Yes to all three. Absolutely. Regulate 'em, tax the hell out of 'em, and remove the criminal element out of the equation.
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post #8 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Absolutely. But I'm biased.
But sometimes, the biased man is biased because he already made the right choice.
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post #9 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:13pm
Nah, Jake's just biased because he's got three Mexican teenagers with stomachs full of heroin condoms living in his garage.
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post #10 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:22pm
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying some drugs are worse than others. I don't think heroin should be legal. We should reduce the penalties for consumers to none, but we can't condone its use across the board.
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post #11 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:28pm
I don't think all illegal drugs should be legalized. But Marijuana? Absolutely. the stuff that's genuinely hurtful? Not so much, but as noted above the onus of blame should be on distributors, not consumers.

Gambling and Prostitution too (though like my fellow poster above I understand the hesitance about prostitution). Though I'd say gambling is de-facto legal as it stands. Most folks probably live within a relatively short distance of someplace they can gamble.
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post #12 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:31pm
My feeling has always been that drugs like marijuana, where you're basically taking a naturally occurring substance and using it with little or no alteration to it, shouldn't be a big deal. Cooking meth, well, that's out.
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post #13 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Nah, Jake's just biased because he's got three Mexican teenagers with stomachs full of heroin condoms living in his garage.
Listen, when you need money you'll do whatever it takes to get it. THE WORLD IS MINE.
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post #14 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
My feeling has always been that drugs like marijuana, where you're basically taking a naturally occurring substance and using it with little or no alteration to it, shouldn't be a big deal. Cooking meth, well, that's out.
I'm fine with weed, but the "naturally occurring substance" argument has always seemed like the weakest pro-marijuana argument there is. All sorts of things that grow naturally can kill you.
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post #15 of 69
10/21/10 at 12:44pm
As long as it doesn´t affect the next season of Breaking Bad, go for it.
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post #16 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:05pm
Ex-US Surgeon General: Legalize Marijuana

We consume far more dangerous drugs that are legal: cigarettes, booze, prescription pills, etc. Weed has never directly killed anyone and is not physically addictive. The US should make it legal, tax the shit out of it, and use the revenue to fund worthwhile social programs. But you know, since weed is associated with Black people, its an easy way to lock up our Black youth and ensure their records will be tarnished forever for minor/harmless crimes.
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post #17 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
I can sort of get the hesitancy about prostitution (even if I don't agree with it), but I simply don't understand why gambling is such a big taboo. Yes, people can become addicted and blow tons of money on it. Like they can with the perfectly legal state lotteries.
The most assbackward thing about the lotto is that is that it's both the "purest" form of gambling there is (in that there's no skill element whatsoever) and far and away the worst odds of any game of chance you can find. To use compare it to drugs, casino gambling would be like heavily regulated medical marijuana, while the state itself is selling meth.

Our drug policy is beyond fucked, though. From a strictly fiscal view, it's the worst investment maybe in the history of the world. We're in the biggest economic downturn in decades, and everyone's freaked about the deficit. Meanwhile it would be the simplest thing in the world to turn one of our biggest economic sinkholes into a potential revenue source, but no one is gives it any serious thought. Can't be seen as soft on victimless crime, no sirree.
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post #18 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
I'm fine with weed, but the "naturally occurring substance" argument has always seemed like the weakest pro-marijuana argument there is. All sorts of things that grow naturally can kill you.

Like panthers. Seriously, never try to snort a panther. I tried it once back in the eighties. Didn't go well.
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post #19 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Absolutely. But I'm biased.
And, as someone who has never smoked a joint in his life, I absolutely agree with you. It's retarded that in 2010 we're still going round and round on this issue. Make some easy money, California!
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post #20 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:23pm
Weed should be 100% legal. Other drugs, decriminalize their use, continue to pursue dealers. Human nature being what it is, some drugs are just too dangerous to be openly available (see China during the opium wars or Afghanistan today).
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post #21 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:30pm
This makes too much sense. You know like spending less than you make or a health care system that serves the public good or throwing away trillions of dollars at the Military-Industrial Machine instead of funding children's education.

Adults should be allowed to make choices barring it having a negative impact on someone else's life. I don't give a fuck if you want to spike your veins with Chinese Dancing Pigeon Black Tar Heroin as long as you're not harming anyone else...it worked for fucking Lou Reed! That's how we should live our lives: What Would Lou Reed Do?
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post #22 of 69
10/21/10 at 1:34pm
Not only should they be legal, some should be *mandatory.* When you turn 18, first you should have to register for selective service, then you have go to one of the national parks for a weekend where a park ranger smokes you out and does mushrooms with you.

You'll be able to handle anything after laughing your ass off over pinecones one minute, and the next minute seeing the top of a mountain lift off and a horrifying mass of Old Ones spill out of the crater into the sky.
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post #23 of 69
10/21/10 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeball Kid View Post
You'll be able to handle anything after laughing your ass off over pinecones one minute, and the next minute seeing the top of a mountain lift off and a horrifying mass of Old Ones spill out of the crater into the sky.
That happened to you too?
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post #24 of 69
10/21/10 at 2:15pm
It would save thousands of lives. Billions of dollars. Free major resources to be put to a more positive use. Generate huge tax income.

Of course it won't happen. Don't be ridiculous.
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post #25 of 69
10/21/10 at 2:36pm
And I mean REALLY tax the shit out of it. Because the rest of us with half a brain will have a modest grow closet that takes care of that little issue.
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post #26 of 69
10/21/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
And I mean REALLY tax the shit out of it. Because the rest of us with half a brain will have a modest grow closet that takes care of that little issue.
Ok, I know you were being funny. But seriously when I hear about how the goverment will make billions selling marijuana I'm always questioning "but can't people either make their own or buy it where it won't be taxed like from their friends?"

Granted, I don't know shit about buying drugs at all, but won't the stuff on the street be way cheaper than the stuff in stores?
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post #27 of 69
10/21/10 at 3:30pm
Wait, you guys think cocaine and heroin should be legalized?
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post #28 of 69
10/21/10 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post
Granted, I don't know shit about buying drugs at all, but won't the stuff on the street be way cheaper than the stuff in stores?
Let's ask the people who grow their own tobacco and make their own alcohol. Sure, it's cheaper but not that many people want to make the time.
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post #29 of 69
10/21/10 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTSMGL View Post
Wait, you guys think cocaine and heroin should be legalized?
Don't worry, those are the two biggest money making operations for the CIA so they'll never be legal. They wouldn't want anyone muscling in on their war/foreign government overthrow money.

The pot smoking paranoid side of me thinks this could all be a clever rouse for the federal government to be able to claim marshal law in a sovereign state that they designate as breaking federal drug laws through Prop 19, and the pot smoking sleepy side of me thinks I should hit this vaporizer again.
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post #30 of 69
10/21/10 at 4:03pm
Drug use, at least for the middle class, would likely be limited to recreational marijuana use as businesses can still require employees to be drug free & probably wouldn't tolerate anything harder than bud. Not to mention that laws, such as driving while intoxicated will still be a punishable offense.
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post #31 of 69
10/21/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post
Ok, I know you were being funny. But seriously when I hear about how the goverment will make billions selling marijuana I'm always questioning "but can't people either make their own or buy it where it won't be taxed like from their friends?"

Granted, I don't know shit about buying drugs at all, but won't the stuff on the street be way cheaper than the stuff in stores?
Unless, your friend has major connections, usually the stuff you can buy cheaply is swag. The regulated stuff is the good shit. Make the good shit legal, people will buy it.
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post #32 of 69
10/21/10 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post
Ok, I know you were being funny. But seriously when I hear about how the goverment will make billions selling marijuana I'm always questioning "but can't people either make their own or buy it where it won't be taxed like from their friends?"

Granted, I don't know shit about buying drugs at all, but won't the stuff on the street be way cheaper than the stuff in stores?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Unless, your friend has major connections, usually the stuff you can buy cheaply is swag. The regulated stuff is the good shit. Make the good shit legal, people will buy it.
Well, there's plenty of good shit on the streets as is. It's been my experience that's the majority of the market in bigger cities. In say, NY I don't even know anyone who bothers with swag.

And DerekT, yeah, a lot of people would still buy it from stores. While it's "easy," it also takes quite a bit of work to grow it yourself. Although if you're willing to learn you can grow stuff just as amazing as the best "regulated" weed.

And while I'm sure people will still sell stuff they've grown, I'd think the black-market will be reduced to almost nothing, especially in terms of the current way of one guy buying in bulk and then selling that downwards.

Most people want it the easiest possible way, taxes be damned.
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post #33 of 69
10/21/10 at 4:53pm
looking at the amount of money the UK government makes from Tobacco already, it's a wonder Pot wasn't leagalized years ago.

However as long as we live in a world where people buy The Daily Mail Prostitution never will be.
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post #34 of 69
10/21/10 at 4:55pm
And I will trust you guys on buying it in stores legal.

I still think though there will be maybe not so much a black market but bootlegging that we already seen with cigarettes. Basicly people will probably drive past a state line to get the cheaper stuff (I image it would be the states that would be deciding the tax rate after all).
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post #35 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Savage View Post
looking at the amount of money the UK government makes from Tobacco already, it's a wonder Pot wasn't leagalized years ago.

However as long as we live in a world where people buy The Daily Mail Prostitution never will be.
Only solicitation of prostitution is illegal in the UK. Therefore, its legal for all intents and purposes.

And of course bud should be legal. Tough to argue against it when alcohol is legit.
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post #36 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post
Basicly people will probably drive past a state line to get the cheaper stuff (I image it would be the states that would be deciding the tax rate after all).
I'd have to imagine anyone who would put that kind of effort into it would just start a garden.
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post #37 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTSMGL View Post
Wait, you guys think cocaine and heroin should be legalized?
Heroin I dunno.

Whatever measure should be taken at least regionally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
Unless, your friend has major connections, usually the stuff you can buy cheaply is swag. The regulated stuff is the good shit. Make the good shit legal, people will buy it.
I guess some major players will jump immediately into the business eg the ones in Europe who sell only seeds etc.
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post #38 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTSMGL View Post
Wait, you guys think cocaine and heroin should be legalized?
Definitely. Not legalizing them would be half-assing it.

The thing is, hard drugs are just too good at what they do to ever be eradicated. It will never happen. So I much rather they are available in a controlled environment, with quality control and free of everything the illegal market brings than the current nightmare that drug addicts go through. I prefer that these people get some help and dignity back than let them waste their lives just to make a point.
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post #39 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
Definitely. Not legalizing them would be half-assing it.

The thing is, hard drugs are just too good at what they do to ever be eradicated. It will never happen. So I much rather they are available in a controlled environment, with quality control and free of everything the illegal market brings than the current nightmare that drug addicts go through. I prefer that these people get some help and dignity back than let them waste their lives just to make a point.
Nop. Because legal research could increase the dependence of the product (as the industry usually do).
I kinda agree with you, W.S. Burroughs was right, you can eradicate drugs.
About the stuff in bold above: legal drugs have low quality control sometimes...
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post #40 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:30pm
I used to say yes to only marijuana but my dad of all people made some pretty strong points for all drugs being legal (personal choice, it's your body, as long as you aren't harming others, etc).

It's impossible to legalize all drugs now, it'll never happen. I'm still not completely on board but, in theory, I can see why we should.
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post #41 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:40pm
No only should drugs be legalized - they must be legalized. You cannot wage a perpetual war on American citizens

Good luck to California, I hope they strike a fatal blow to this monstrous marijuana prohibition
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post #42 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:44pm
Considering how much shit already legal stuff like alcohol and tobacco causes, I can't see how making even more drugs legal would make things better.
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post #43 of 69
10/21/10 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexxon View Post
Considering how much shit already legal stuff like alcohol and tobacco causes, I can't see how making even more drugs legal would make things better.
How about we would no longer be jailing Americans over a matter of taste? As a drug user who has suffered enormously because of our nations drug laws, your statement is quite frankly insulting
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post #44 of 69
10/21/10 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexxon View Post
Considering how much shit already legal stuff like alcohol and tobacco causes, I can't see how making even more drugs legal would make things better.
You can't enforce an age limit on an illegal drug. You can't safely regulate an illegal drug. You can't tax an illegal drug.

Those that want to use drugs already are. Those that don't aren't likely to start simply because it's legal.
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post #45 of 69
10/21/10 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexxon View Post
Considering how much shit already legal stuff like alcohol and tobacco causes, I can't see how making even more drugs legal would make things better.
Yes, alcohol and tobacco does cause a lot of misery. But imagine if they were illegal? Things would be a lot worse.
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post #46 of 69
10/21/10 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluelouboyle View Post
Yes, alcohol and tobacco does cause a lot of misery. But imagine if they were illegal? Things would be a lot worse.
I guess nobody is actually paying attention to Boardwalk Empire.

Does anyone really think the violence and terror currently being spread all around Mexico wouldn't be drastically minimized (if not eradicated altogether) if cocaine and marijuana were legal? Look at the markup for a kilo of cocaine or a pound of marijuana due to the prohibitive nature of its cultivation, production and distribution. There would be no incentive to actually be in the dope game if the cost vs profit and risk vs. reward ratio's were reduced to close to nothing.
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post #47 of 69
10/21/10 at 7:51pm
Don't hide it--legalize it!

I'm voting yes on prop 19. I'd like to see prostitution legalized and regulated as well to protect women.
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post #48 of 69
10/21/10 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancroft Agee View Post
I guess nobody is actually paying attention to Boardwalk Empire.

Does anyone really think the violence and terror currently being spread all around Mexico wouldn't be drastically minimized (if not eradicated altogether) if cocaine and marijuana were legal? Look at the markup for a kilo of cocaine or a pound of marijuana due to the prohibitive nature of its cultivation, production and distribution. There would be no incentive to actually be in the dope game if the cost vs profit and risk vs. reward ratio's were reduced to close to nothing.
The Rand Corp. study says no.

Quote:
Legalizing marijuana in California would not curtail Mexican drug organizations, study says

A new study concludes that Proposition 19, which would partially legalize marijuana in California, would do almost nothing to curtail violent Mexican drug organizations that ship the drug across the border, a finding that undermines one of the main arguments proponents have made.

The report, released Tuesday by the Rand Corp., the non-partisan research institute in Santa Monica, estimates legalized marijuana could displace Mexican marijuana sold in California, but says that accounts for just 2% to 4% of the revenues gangs get from drug exports.

The researchers said that if California’s legal pot were smuggled around the country, it could replace most Mexican marijuana sales, slicing more deeply into cartel revenues.

They say, however, that that scenario is highly unlikely. “We do not believe that the federal government will stand idly by if California were to capture the entire national market now held by Mexico-sourced marijuana,” they wrote in the report, called “Reducing Drug Trafficking Revenues and Violence in Mexico: Would Legalizing Marijuana in California Help?”
Comparing the Mexican drug gangs to the mafia after alcohol prohibition, the researchers also say that they are likely to find other businesses, just as the mafia did to replace bootlegging. In the short term, they conclude, violence might even increase as gangs fight over smaller revenues.
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post #49 of 69
10/21/10 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post
You can't safely regulate an illegal drug.
We can safely regulate legal drugs? I think I've seen enough "did you or a loved one use this drug. Its now known to be the cause of head explosions. Call us and we will sue for you" to know thats not true.

I got to image if we did legalize everything then there be a whole lot of lawsuits due to the now legal drugs killing people. Unless there was some sort of "recreactional drug are used at your own risk so you can't sue if you die law"
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post #50 of 69
10/21/10 at 8:43pm
Legalised? No.

Decriminalised? Most definitely.
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