2010-11 NBA SEASON - Page 3

Just taking the new chud out for a spin. Mr. Blake Griffin. For sure ROY and an All Star this feb.

Nets finally turned down the Carmelo trade. The whole thing was a charade, good of NJ to finally realize they were pawns. Guess this means Carmelo Anthony will be a Knick?

Its almost hilarious how people thought it never would be. The real question is if they can land Paul.

We don't want or need Melo.  We need a serviceable shooting guard (Heinrich or Salmons would look so fucking good right now) and we'll compete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis 

After the Celtics beat the Spurs I was ready to call them the best team in the league. It was a statement win. Then they fell off , losing to some stinker teams. But after defeating offt the Magic in a really great game, once again it's hard to argue.

 

I;m surprised the Nets nixed the deal. Carmelo must have made it clear they didn't have a chance of resigning him. I'm holding out hope he goes to the Bulls.

The things is I think Boston, at least the veterans, doesn't go 100% unless it's a big game. They're not the best regular season team, but in the playoffs I think they'll show up and be one of the best, if not the best.
 

Definitely get points for making it on the first attempt, especially in this contest.  However the Kia dunk was a bit anticlimactic jumping over the hood as opposed to the roof.  And I thought the choir was absolutely shameful.  "I Believe I Can Fly?"  Really?

I dunno, Javale McGee dunked three balls at once. That was kind of awesome.

McGee was indeed outside the box, at least in the first round.  But again, I think the end result would've been more effective (for me anyway) if he would've made one of his first twenty attempts.

Every guy did well, but I thought DeRozan had the best dunk of the evening.

And Blake's best dunk was his first one. The car thing was kind of lame. I would have been impressed if he jumped over the sun roof.

And Unfortunately, McGee was out of ideas at that point.

That DeRozan dunk was my favorite as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SevenYearItch 

Definitely get points for making it on the first attempt, especially in this contest.  However the Kia dunk was a bit anticlimactic jumping over the hood as opposed to the roof.  And I thought the choir was absolutely shameful.  "I Believe I Can Fly?"  Really?

Agreed.  He went over the lowest part of the car, for Pete's sake.  The props outshone his actual dunk.
 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AvPbD6t1xoNOwczoO3Nysoq8vLYF?slug=aw-thomasknicks022011

I love how Isiah Thomas has become freakin' IAGO in the ongoing Knicks drama. What a snake.

It's official, NY - your roster is now Amar'e, Carmelo, Chauncey, and Toney Douglas. Congratulations!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Elvis 

The Kendrick Perkins trade breaks my heart.

Can't understand this at all. His size is what gives the Celtics an advatage over the Heat. Morevover, if he's healthy in Game 7 of last year's Finals they almost certainly beat the Lakers. I will say, as a Laker's fan kinda of glad to see this. If the Lakers play them again in the Finals they won't have to contend with Perkins, Garnett, and Big Baby; Shaq is a non factor at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhn3LJum3mg&feature=player_embedded

Oh Bosh....

Bosh is such a hose head.  Seriously, has that clown no shame.  This makes me hate the Heat even more.

More ammo for us Heat haters

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/the-miami-heat-are-apparently-crying-in-the-locker-room-right-now/#

This is a team of pussies.  I hope they draw the Knick in the first round and get the boot.

Poor Bosh Spice....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=6196012

So the Lakers are the only quality team this season that the Heat have defeated. And I have to say, as a Lakers fan, its a bit unsettling. I don't think both these teams will be in the NBA Finals so my fears should safely be put to rest.

I can't believe the Bulls might win 60 this year and get the #1 seed.  Last year it was .500 and barely in.  It's scary they got this goog this fast.

Rose MVP. 

I am not on the Derrick Rose train. I don't think he's a brilliant-enough defender, but I do think he's an excellent offensive player. However, these Bulls are so good this year because of Coach Thibedeou and the defense. I think they're well-coached enough that if Rose missed a couple of games and everyone else was healthy, you'd still have a formidable team. I think Rose belongs in the discussion, but I don't think he deserves to be a frontrunner. Read a great piece that illuminated stats that I had not been privy to, on how Rose and Russell Westbrook are having nearly similar seasons. So Westbrook isn't an MVP candidate because he plays with Durant, the better player. So should Durant be the MVP? Don't think so, though he should be in the conversation as well, like Rose. Not frontrunners.

I still give it to Dwight Howard. I think his scoring has kept Orlando majorly afloat in addition to his predictably-superb defense. I don't like to keep going back to the "take him off the team and they're still good/maybe terrible" argument, but Orlando has overtraded themselves to the point where they're kinda shitty. SVG is a great coach, but its a sub-playoff team, and to see them in the East top four is a testament to how much of an impact Howard has on the game. He deserves it 100%, I think.

Does Westbrook take the majority of game winning shots?  Does Rose have a Kevin Durant type player that defenses key on?  Plus the bulls play a different typ of offense & defense than Oklahoma City. OKL gives up over 100 PPG so they have to push the game more and score more.

And forget stats, what do you see?  Granted I see more Rose than Westbrook, Howard, or James but Rose is a dominant player at a generously listed 6'3.  Plus they guy makes his teammates better.  He help turn Luol Deng into a legit scorer.  And Howard may be doing alot to keep his team the 4th seed(2nd last year) but Rose made his team a #1 seed. 

Maybe the Celtics are saving for the playoffs?  Last year they used Perkins as the reasons they lost the Finals and now they trade him.  Shaq is in a walking boot and they have looked bad since the break.  Not NY Knicks bad, but not what they were.  Watch Howard go to the knicks next year via FA.

I may be biased, but Rose is far and away the most deserving candidate.  I understand the calls for someone like Howard, but I think it boils down to the difference between "most outstanding player" and "most valuable player."

Also, Thibedeou for COY?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel 

Does Westbrook take the majority of game winning shots?  Does Rose have a Kevin Durant type player that defenses key on?  Plus the bulls play a different typ of offense & defense than Oklahoma City. OKL gives up over 100 PPG so they have to push the game more and score more.

 

And forget stats, what do you see?  Granted I see more Rose than Westbrook, Howard, or James but Rose is a dominant player at a generously listed 6'3.  Plus they guy makes his teammates better.  He help turn Luol Deng into a legit scorer.  And Howard may be doing alot to keep his team the 4th seed(2nd last year) but Rose made his team a #1 seed. 

 

Maybe the Celtics are saving for the playoffs?  Last year they used Perkins as the reasons they lost the Finals and now they trade him.  Shaq is in a walking boot and they have looked bad since the break.  Not NY Knicks bad, but not what they were.  Watch Howard go to the knicks next year via FA.

Some relevant points here, but...

1) Rose is a dominant player, sure. How does that discount Dwight Howard? He is a man amongst boys at his position.

2) Luol Deng's numbers haven't exactly skyrocketed from previous years. He's always been a pretty decent scorer. And it's not like Rose "crafted" him into becoming an All-Star or something.

3) My argument is that Rose DIDN'T make his team a #1 seed. The team was the elevated play of Joakim Noah, the arrival of Carlos Boozer and, most importantly, Thibedeou's offensive and defensive schemes. Rose is a big part of that and, again, a worthy competitor for the MVP, but he's not the main component in the Bulls' improvement. To be honest, the main component is probably that Vinny Del Negro was finally fired.

I just think Dwight Howard fits the classical definition of MVP more this year. His numbers are superb both offensively AND defensively. Many teams have no answer for him. He's been keeping a team with an absurd roster turnover afloat in the East. And he is more valuable to his team than any other player is to theirs.

Howard should be out of the discussion because his team is in 4th place in the Conf.  When do they ever give out the MVP award from a team that low in the standings?  It's almost always someone who is on the top team in a conf. 

Rose is the one who stepped up his game on the Bulls.  Watching him last year to this he's just different.  He takes over games.  He's signifacantly better at everything.  Most Bulls fans would have said 50 wins tops for this team and if things went well a spot in the ECF.  Now with Rose jumping into MVP territory it's NBA championship talk.  Not just from Bulls fans, but from everyone around the league.  And it's because of Rose.  

I think the coaching is also a big reason.  Vinny always had a guy like Deng taking a jumper instead of actually getting him into the offense.  His keeping the 2nd unit together in a set rotation is also a big step up from shitty Vinny.  The Bulls probably have one of the top 3 benches 6-12 in the league.  Old man Kurt Thomas was a beast in games when Noah and Boozer were out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel 

Howard should be out of the discussion because his team is in 4th place in the Conf.  When do they ever give out the MVP award from a team that low in the standings?  It's almost always someone who is on the top team in a conf. 

 

Rose is the one who stepped up his game on the Bulls.  Watching him last year to this he's just different.  He takes over games.  He's signifacantly better at everything.  Most Bulls fans would have said 50 wins tops for this team and if things went well a spot in the ECF.  Now with Rose jumping into MVP territory it's NBA championship talk.  Not just from Bulls fans, but from everyone around the league.  And it's because of Rose.  

 

I think the coaching is also a big reason.  Vinny always had a guy like Deng taking a jumper instead of actually getting him into the offense.  His keeping the 2nd unit together in a set rotation is also a big step up from shitty Vinny.  The Bulls probably have one of the top 3 benches 6-12 in the league.  Old man Kurt Thomas was a beast in games when Noah and Boozer were out.

Ah, but then you're challenging the very notion of what it means to be "valuable." I mean, the team with the league's best player isn't always the championship winner, right? "Most Valuable Player" means the one player that has dominated above all this year.

Rose has improved greatly this season, and he has become one of the league's ten best players. He can absolutely dominate a game now, and has stepped up his outside shot so that he can be a decent threat from anywhere on the court. But you're talking about a popularity contest, of making the MVP a way of celebrating how well a team with an excellent coach, an All-Star post threat, an athletic shot-blocking center ranked as one of the top 5 in his position and a 15-20 ppg swingman with excellent defensive skills can achieve the number one seed in a weak Eastern Conference. Saying Rose deserves the MVP is a misrepresentation of what it takes to become the MVP and something of an insult to the rest of that team. Also, we're in a fantastic time for point guards right now, and if it weren't for the injuries, I would like Chris Paul's play at the position much better.

I think Howard's statistical dominance can't be argued, but really watch the games. Without Gortat out there to give him breaks, Howard has been beastly on BOTH ends. He's the league's most dominant defensive presence. On top of that, he alters teams' gameplans, because he can easily put up 20-25 points per game without breaking a sweat, while putting up nearly comical rebounding numbers. Howard is involved with EVERY play on both ends when you watch a Magic game. He's having a borderline LEGENDARY season for a big man, and is the SOLE reason Orlando has homecourt advantage, because he is NOT getting any help from that Mickey Mouse operation they've surrounded him with.

Team Howard, all the way.

I think a strong case can be made for Howard, and for me personally it comes down to him and Rose.

When talking about MVP, I think the first thing to do is to set out our criteria for determining who deserves the reward.  Otherwise we wind up equivocating between different standards, and there's no way to agree.  For me, the MVP has to have at least the following factors in his favor:

-he has to put up numbers, they don't have to be the best but they have to be up there

-he must be the leader of that team (the better the supporting cast, the lesser the weight this is given)

-his team must be a legitimate contender (the better the record, the more weight this is given)

-cannot be a liability on either end of the court

-being clutch (MVP candidates usually are, though this will tend to weigh against big men, which in their case it means less)

Under my criteria Lebron will never get consideration so long as he's playing with Wade.  They put up almost identical numbers, and it's hard to say which player is better, more of a leader, or more integral to the team.  Frankly, if I'm Miami I'd rather see Wade with the ball in his hands at the end of a game.

For me, Rose is the MVP under my criteria.  His numbers are great.  They're not the most efficient, but the offense lives and dies with him.  The greatness of Rose is that even when his shot, still in need of some refining, isn't working he's able to get involved in other ways.  He is unequivocally the leader of the team, and it is his infectious energy and swagger on the court that gets everybody else going.  He's quiet and humble, yet it's obvious that everyone else looks to him to set the tone.  Even though he has an excellent supporting cast, through injuries all season Rose has remained constant.  A large part of that is attributable to Thibs, who I think is COY, but without Rose this team would be another Milwaukee Bucks.

I'll put forward another reason why Rose deserves the MVP, and this one is, frankly, controversial but I think legitimate: it's good for the game.  Consciously or not, I think this is one of the biggest reasons Rose is running away with the award.  People want to reward Rose because of his combinations of work ethic, leadership and humility.  He is just as quiet and humble off the court as he is driven to win and be the best on it.  He's the first superstar since Tim Duncan to have these qualities, but unlike Tim Duncan, who made everything look so easy you sometimes overlooked just how amazing he is, Rose's game has flash and thus more appeal.  This may not be a conventional factor to weigh in favor of an MVP, but I think in this era of egocentric, prima donna athletes, Rose stands out so much, and is such a strong candidate for MVP anyway, that this pushes him over the top.

Ah, excellent points, Judd, but don't those also apply to Howard?

"the offense lives and dies with him"

Howard. Also, the defense.

"able to get involved in other ways"

Howard

"unequivocally the leader of his team"

Howard

"without [PLAYER], this team would be the Milwaukee Bucks"

Howard. Hell, take him off the Magic, and they aren't even the Cavs.

Also, my argument there is that the Bulls are so well put-together that if Rose were absent for a couple of games, CJ Watson could step in, and that offense wouldn't be too off. Boozer and Deng would get the remaining shots and Noah would be the on-court leader (this wouldn't last, since he's a little nuts, but in short spurts, it would work). And the defense would still be airtight.

And as far as good for the league? Yes, Rose puts out a wonderful image for the marketing people, and he seems like a good guy. But Howard is a multimedia goofball, always yukking it up with talk show hosts, always having a good time. Rose is more reserved, but Howard is a genuine ambassador to the league. And unlike Rose (who still has that fudged SAT story on his record), Howard's always stayed clean, always out of trouble.

TEAM HOWARD.

NBA MVP last 10 years

James - Top team

James - top team

Bryant - 2nd(bos)

Dirk - top team

Nash - 3rd

Nash - top team

Garnett - top team

Duncan - top team

Duncan - 2nd

Orlando is 8th best in the league.  Do you honestly believe Howard will be in the running for the award?  He may be having a great year, but not great enough to overcome his teams place in the standings.  Be realistic.

Anya, to be fair we're not talking about who will win (I think most would agree Rose has it in the bag) but who ought to win.  To that end, your data does lend credence to why Rose should win it.  His team is in control of the East and may end up with 60 wins.  I'd also like to point out that the assertion that Orlando would be the Cavs without Howard is spurious.  He's not devoid of supporting talent.  Nine players average over 10 pts per game, I doubt any other team in the league comes close.  They're also arguably the best 3 point shooting club in the league.

I think it's a bit much to say Howard is single handedly keeping his team in it.  He is a beast on defense but he has alot of help on offense. 

And I wouldn't sat The Magic are top tier.  Bos, Chi, Mia, LA, SA, & Dal are the top tier teams IMO.  The Magic have no shot.  Their first round opponent has beat them 2/3 times this year.  Might not even make it out of the first round.

Howard has the stats but you can't just pick an MVP on stats.  You have to look at everything-leadership, closing ability, how they help their teammates.  Rose excells at all.  Howard is tecnical foul happy and has missed a game because of it and could miss more.  You can't give the ball to Howard at the end of games because he'll get the Shaq treatment.  He makes his mates better on defense by covering the middle but he has major holes.

Can you really be MVP when you are a detriment to your team in the final minutes of a game?

Rose was great down the strech again tonite.  Bulls didn't have much going but they turned it up in the 4th, got it close and Rose took over.  17 assists too.

Switching topics-What is up with the Knicks?  They are playing horribly.  The Melo trade looks like a bad idea.  Melo is criticising the coach, Amare is saying some guys(Melo) should buy into the system, they aren't playing defense(well less than before) and they are losing to the bottom tier of the playoff teams in the East. 

Before the Trade I thought the Knicks matched up well with the Bulls.  Losing Felton, Chandler and Gallinari killed their depth.  I was actually a bit worried about them if they were a 6 and Bulls were a 3.  Now I say bring them on.