2010-11 NBA SEASON - Page 12

Well snaps, now I'm kind of concerned about the NBA labor situation. The Mavs starting 5 could be on some NBA Jam ish with Butler coming back and the Fernandez trade. 

I think Dirk looks like Andy Dick in those glasses. Sean Marion was the Mavs secret weapon in the finals, and I'm as happy for him as I am for Dirk. I've always liked the Matrix, and the Suns/Mavs rivalry, at it's height, is unsurpassed for me in terms of pure entertainment value.

Following Steve Nash on Twitter, he has been genuinely thrilled for the Mavericks. Nash is a one-hundred percent professional, one of the greatest guys in the League, and would have a ring of his own if it weren't for Robert Horry and the cheapshot Spurs. 

Charles Barkley, never one to mince words, said recently that he doesn't think there's even going to be an NBA season. Both sides are so far apart; not even in the same ballpark.

 

Unlike the NFL lockout, however, I don't think the public outrage and concern will be there for an NBA lockout. We all know the NFL is king and even though the NBA is popular people won't generally be in as big an uproar as they are with the NFL. So if there's no season, oh well.  

The league got everything they wanted from the last CBA, and now they want salaries at 2/3 their current level. Such bullshit. They fought for all sorts of caps and restrictions on earnings, and it was THEIR CHOICE to make these decisions to give Eddy Curry, Hedo Turkoglu and others $60 million a piece*. The league doesn't have a SINGLE case, but they're going to play hardball and bleed out the players, because unlike them, these owners and CEO's are billionaires with OTHER JOBS. Once Antawn Jamison has to sell his fifth Rolls Royce, the players will cave and accept a ridiculously limited deal.

 

Or the NBA will go away forever.

 

*Seriously, someone needs to tabulate all the completely retarded, ill-advised free agent deals signed since the last lockout ended. It would be just a laundry list of stupid decisions.

Tend to side with the players when it comes to the NFL

Side more with the owners when it comes to the NBA.

Yea I agree Nash is one of the classiest and nicest ballers in the history of the NBA.

And regarding this lockout, well you cannot compare it to the NFL. The NFL has revenue sharing so everyone is profitable. NBA does not.

Yes we can blame the small market teams for making bad deals, in the NBA. But with or without these deals they'd still be losing money. In fact that's why these deals were made, desperation to compete and make profits. The way the NBA is structured it's not feasible for most small market teams to make money, at least supposedly. According to the NBA, but also acknowledged by espn, mote NBA teams are losing than making money.

It seems almost certain there will be a NBA lockout, the owners will try to destroy the players wills, since they can hold out much longer. But the players may verynwell push to decertify and take it to court. Personally I think there needs to be fewer teams in the league.

There does need to be fewer teams yes. Revenue sharing and a salary cap like the NFL would be optimal.

 

The problem the league has first and foremost are terrible god awful owners. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_draft_labor_war062511

 

Second are the players who many just aren't very smart and have image issues.

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Revenue sharing would pretty much solve the problem of teams losing money.  The only problem is the big market NBA teams will never go for it.  They make far too much money to let this change.  It also would change something a little fundamental in the NBA.  It would pretty much destroy dynasties, as it would even the playing field.

 

Some of the players are also assholes.  I think it was Kenyon Martin that said something like that he was a 100% fit, but he was still going to rest for a few more games, just to reduce the probability of getting injured again.  I think that's the problem a lot of NBA teams have, they pay way too much for players like Rashard Lewis, but there's really no way of knowing if it'll be worth it.  The NBA is trying to figure out a way to make sure players remain motivated.  I think they need an injury clause, like the NFL.

 

To me, it's quite simple, just let some teams go under.  That's callous, since people will lose jobs, but it's better in the long run.  Teams will be loaded with more talent, and games will be more exciting. 

Hard to disagree with any of what you said. The NBA has huge image issues with its players no doubt.

 

Thing is its owners are a lot of the problem as well.

 

Big market teams might have a problem and in Baseball the Yankees and Red Sox might say fuck em all day long to the Royals, Pirates or Padres but I say fuck them!

 

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Sharing is caring. In the words of our current president spread the wealth around.

wonder who's side His Airness is on

Kenyon Martin, $95.5 million, seven years.

Allan Houston, six years, $100 million

Jermaine O'Neal, seven years, $126.6 million

Ben Wallace, four years, $60 million

Eddy Curry, six years, $56 million

Erick Dampier, six years, $73 million

Larry Hughes, five years, $70 million

Jerome James, five years, $30 million

Raef LaFrentz, seven years, $70 million

Rashard Lewis, six years, $118 million

Peja Stojakovic, five years, $64 million

Gilbert Arenas, six years, $111 million

Brian Cardinal, six years, $37 million

DeSagana Diop, six years, $32 million

Darius Miles, six years, $68 million

Samuel Dalembert, six years, $64 million.

Josh Childress, five years, $34 million

Hedo Turkoglu, five years, $53 million

 

This is what the owners started. After four of these types of contracts, there's really no excuse.

God DAMN..who are half of those players?? FIgures, right when the Pacers just turning things around the NBA goes to shit.   

i dont even think lebrons contract was as big as some of these

and this is completely ridiculous, but as a non user i find it funny

Wow..that is just funny as all hell, and kind of sad.. so the NBA is just a bunch of pricks.

Simmons has Stern back on his podcast. Stern comes across well. Simmons comes across as, well, a fan regurgitating heresay and periphery info.

Okay, am I the only one going through withdrawal here? The last meetings, or at least the rumors that emerged, suggest that the league is a far off distance from coming back. It really sounds like the owners, who have yet to submit their own proposal, are not on the same side at all, and haven't agreed on what their demands should be. Great, guys. Meanwhile, I know the players submitted a proposal that lowers their cut of league profits from 57% to 54%, which is a collective loss of a couple hundred million. And yet, most of the owners are saying they'll START the conversation when the players move below 50%. Which is borderline disgraceful.

 

Anyway, I've been breaking up the monotony by checking out old NBA footage on YouTube, reading about classic players and such. Every little morsel of NBA goodness excites me. The Sarah Palin rumors the other day made me spend a half hour looking up Glen Rice highlights! THANK YOU SARAH. There's footage of a Hornets/Bulls game where Jordan and Rice went shot for shot, it gave me a minor thrill.

 

Anyway, now's a good a time as any to bring up the Hall of Fame debate. Who should go? Who shouldn't?

 

DEFINITIES

Shaq

Kevin Garnett

Paul Pierce (possible all-time Celtic leading scorer - kind of a big deal)

Ray Allen

Reggie Miller, Glen Rice (Rice is a tougher sell I would think, but the dude could score, but why isn't Miller in yet?)

Tim Duncan

Nowitiski

Kidd

LeBron, Wade (I think they've both done enough that, if they retired tomorrow, they would HAVE to be inducted)

Dwight Howard (Well on his way to being the dominant big man of his era, for the last four years or so, and for the next decade)

Steve Nash

Kobe

 

ON THE BUBBLE?

Yao Ming (I would argue his career did not go on for too long, but he's got ambassador status. If Arvydas Sabonis is in...)

Grant Hill (I vote yes, though maybe I just like Hill so much - who doesn't? Hasn't had an All-Star season since Orlando)

Tracy McGrady (No. Was the league's best scorer for a couple of years, but not nearly one of the league's absolute best)

Mitch Richmond (Is he eligible? Loved this guy, and he definitely had the numbers)

Chauncey Billups (Leaning towards yes, though he really only had a handful of years as a difference maker)

Allen Iverson (I say absolutely. That crossover!)

Stephon Marbury (Went legitimately crazy. Stats are there, but was a cancer as soon as things went bad in Jersey. No.)

Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker (Would not have won without Duncan. I say no for now, but a couple more good years...)

Chris Webber (One injury too many. Zero Finals appearances. Out.)

Vince Carter (No guts, and not much game beyond the dunks and the occasional jumper. Has spent around five years now not giving a shit.)

Rasheed Wallace (I guess this argument could be made, but I wouldn't make it)

Pau Gasol (Mmmmm, sure, ok. He led a not very good Grizzlies team to back to back fifty win seasons before getting that championship. Stats are there, and the guy can play)

Joe Johnson (There is no Hall of Very Good)

 

MAYBE ONE DAY

Amar'e Stoudemire (really hasn't done much other than pile up statistics)

Carmelo Anthony (Ditto)

Jason Terry (If he put up the same stats for the next four or five years, and another championship happened, maybe)

Elton Brand (If he can't return to his former glory, five or six more years with stats like last year AND a Finals appearance or two could sway me, and I think he's capable of that)

Kevin Durant (Too young! But if he stays healthy, no doubt)

 

Am I missing anyone?

Nobody will miss the NBA till April when college basketball is over.

 

The lockout is a huge mistake.  Will set them back another 10 years.

 

As for the Hof list-does the pro bball one even matter?  Seems to be a fairly low bar.

YES!!!  No more NBA interruptions on MyTV when they are showing Simpson reruns!!!!!

only a matter of time, before the Lock-Out was called "Modern Day Slavery"....

 

If making millions to play a kids game somehow equates to slavery, sign me up.  

 

(imo, anytime you make comparisons to Hitler, Slavery, the Holocaust, you point becomes invalid)

In my thinking, just on sheer principle alone, the players don't have a leg to stand on. I wish I could go to my boss and demand my money, even in spite of him losing his because of the economics of business. It's just so silly to me.

 

The season is already lost to me. They started subtracting games from the schedule and who really is going to fully embrace the winner of a shortened campaign?

 

This is not "the economics of business." This is "a group of people making absolutely stupid decisions." How can it be the players' fault that the market is set (by the owners) where DESAGANA DIOP earns a $32 million deal?

 

THEY fucked up, and they're asking the players to pay.

 

They are not asking them to PAY, they are asking them to take cuts so the sport can survive.  Guess what, that's business.  Happened at my job.  Business got shitty, and people had to take cuts.  We could have refused, and the place would have went belly up.  Way of the world.  I think anytime you make a millionaire take a pay cut, and he is still a millionaire afterwards, it's hard for the public (rightfully so) to understand.  That's without even adding in the 10% unemployment and people making shitty wages right now due to the economy.  

 

I think the owners want a 50/50 split. Sounds fine to me.  It's not like the players are paying back any of the money they made.  They made out when the going was good... and now that it's not, it's time to make cuts.  I'm sure the millions they will be making will be comfort enough.  

If it's through bad business decisions or good business decisions....the economy is what it is at the end of the day. Deal with it and change with the times (or don't and work somewhere else), like the rest of us have to.

 

 

that's the 800lb Elephant in the room that people are scared to talk about, because they might get viewed as racist.  Most of the players are entitled punks.  Probably since high school, they have been given a free pass because they can throw a rubber ball through a hoop well.  After getting a free ride through college, and more co-eds to fuck then Ron Jeremy, they get to the NBA and make more money in a year then this entire forum will make in a lifetime.  They live a life of luxury and no responsibilities.  Sure, the owners enabled them throughout their careers, giving them insane amounts of money, but guess what, times have changed.  Normal people are having a hard time making ends meat, and they aren't spending the money they once did on stuff like going to NBA games.  Their business is hurting, it's a domino effect, and it's time that they  take a cut in order to keep their job.  But being the entitled punks they are, they can't see the big picture, it's "all about them", as it's been their whole life.  Don't expect the public to feel bad for them, because if they lose their job, they will still have a chance to live a life of semi-luxury, whereas if we lose our job, we are eating Raman noodles and shopping at Good Will.  Fuck them............ 

Yeah, and I'm keeping my job and still having to eat Ramen noodles and shop at Good Will. 

 

Excellent points, Nick. 

For the record, the owners demanded a 46% share for the players originally, down from 57%. Which makes sense as a starting point, of course, and the beginning of a good, tough negotiation.

 

HOWEVER... apparently the owners haven't submitted any proposals beyond the blanket 50/50 split*. Why? Because they don't care to end this lockout. Because, unlike the players, they're still billionaires, and they're still making money. They haven't been able to agree amongst themselves about issues like the mid-level exception, about a hard or soft salary cap, and about grandfathered contracts. They are not unified, and as a result, are not taking this lockout seriously at ALL. If you need to reform the system so the owners can stave off extinction**, that's fine. If you don't want to admit you fucked up the system on your own, AND you don't bring ANYTHING to the negotiation table, you're kind of a fucking asshole.

 

*I am happy to be wrong about this, as the owners may have submitted some sort of proposal beyond splitting revenue halfway down the middle. Regardless, if they have, it's been very recent, and they dragged their feet through the summer.

 

**For the record, the claim that owners are not making money are specious at best. I've heard from a number of money crunchers that NBA franchises who claim they're broke are lying through their teeth. Nobody can produce the evidence that these franchises are bleeding (I think the now-famous blanket statement is that 22 teams finished in the red last year). Even David Stern, who regularly spends All-Star break and an annual Finals press conference to talk about certain franchise's money troubles, crowed this year about huge overseas profits and global multimedia expansion, ignoring his usual greatest hits of "Oh, it's rough out there for an NBA team owner."

Actually, Billionaires is a mistake.  Most are millionaires, and many teams have multiple owners.  Of course the owners help make the mess, and I'm not going to blame the players for taking advantage of a good situation, but the reality is, it's not good business wise out there... most people have had to make sacrafices, and when then they see millionaires fighting with millionaires, the attitude will be "fuck them" by the majority of the public.  And that's just looking at the numbers.  When you add in who the owners are, mostly older guys who are clean cut and articulate with their words, and the players, who aren't exactly that... who is the blue collar America going to side with.  But like I said above, the players can't comprehend that.  The owners can, because they are millionaires and billionaires for a reason.  Perception is key, and when the public isn't behind you, you will get the owners going "let them sit, and we'll see who crumbles first".  Smart move.

They're about to cancel two more weeks. As soon as they do, I'm done with the NBA. For good.

 

I put up with this garbage back in '98. There won't be a third time.

To be honest, while I hate this whole situation, I will say that the lockout-shortened fifty game season back in '99 was AWESOME. If we can get that again, it's worth sitting through this childishness.