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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES?

post #1 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
But hasn't he been rising for two films?

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post #2 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:23am
To be perfectly honest, I don't like that title very much.

Now, I know that I'm most likely very alone in thinking this, but I felt that Dark Knight was a step down from Batman Begins, which I regard as the better film out of the two. Hopefully, Nolan will regain his favor with this fan by re-introducing what I think his interpretation of the character lost after the first film, although I know that he's already pleased the vast majority of fans, so...

EDIT: And I think your take on Batman's rogues gallery is surprisingly simplistic, Nick. The Penguin is often stereotyped as a "fat ass with an umbrella", but a lot of writers have done wonders with him as a serious crime boss who knows how to organize, operate effectively, and bring together a bunch of criminals for common goals.
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post #3 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:25am
Well he kinda took a stumble at the end of the last movie, I guess.

Says he'll be using "many of the same characters" along with introducing new ones. Returning good guys is obvious, so.. the re-reappearance of Cillian Murphy? Unkillable Liam Neeson?
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post #4 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post
Now, I know that I'm most likely very alone in thinking this, but I felt that Dark Knight was a step down from Batman Begins, which I regard as the better film out of the two.
I'd love some of what you're smoking/injecting/sniffing off of a hooker's ass.
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post #5 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:27am
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Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
I'd love some of what you're smoking/injecting/sniffing off of a hooker's ass.
That was entirely expected. *shrug*

Personally, I felt that his take on Gotham was more inspired in the first film with a style that was effectively maintained, whereas in TDK I got the impression that he was being lazy in creating a cohesive atmosphere for the city, and I liked the third act of Begins much better, rather than the bloated, overly moralistic finale of TDK.
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post #6 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:29am
Holy shit BEGINS third-act mention DUCK AND COVER
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post #7 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Holy shit BEGINS third-act mention DUCK AND COVER
I'll just leave it at this: I felt more David Goyer in TDK than in Begins, as if the Nolan brothers were letting him have too much of a say in getting the concepts out. For me, that's a tragedy.
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post #8 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:34am
Well, Draco, I'm not going to kill you over it.

BUT I DON'T HAVE TO SAVE YOU EITHER
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post #9 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post

EDIT: And I think your take on Batman's rogues gallery is surprisingly simplistic, Nick. The Penguin is often stereotyped as a "fat ass with an umbrella", but a lot of writers have done wonders with him as a serious crime boss who knows how to organize, operate effectively, and bring together a bunch of criminals for common goals.
I was being mostly silly. That said, I am very not a DC fan for the most part.
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post #10 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:35am
Before this turns into another BB 3rd act pile-on, I just wanted to say the pic that went with the article is a wonderful kind of genius. Bravo Nunz
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post #11 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:36am
Ledger's performance carries The Dark Knight. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say.

I'd go one farther and say that Gary Oldman carries a significant portion of Batman Begins. The choice of a villain for the third film will matter less to me than who they cast for the role. It's not as if the scripts have been Shakespeare.
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post #12 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:36am
BATMAN RISES would have been better. Would have made a nice bookend to BEGINS. But it's the one called THE DARK KNIGHT that made a bajillion dollars, so ...
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post #13 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:38am
Penguin is cartoony? I guess in the Burton film, and the later animated shows, but if kept to his roots of being an arms dealer, I think he could be a real interesting villian for Batman to face. Just make Penguin a code name that he goes by due to his love of wearing tuxs all the time.
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post #14 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:39am
Yeah, that's perfectly understandable, but I've heard this complaint against many of Batman's classic adversaries so many times that it's difficult to tell if someone is being serious. I just think that a lot of members of Batman's rogues gallery have been redone and redone by such a great deal of solid writers that, with a little creative thinking, Nolan could even make a villain like Mr. Freeze work with his take on Batman's world. After all, his films aren't so much concerned with a slavish devotion to reality (he didn't try to make Two-Face's condition especially realistic, allowing him to drink without so much as a reaction from the wounds) as they are with a more straight-faced interpretation of Batman.

Quote:
Penguin is cartoony? I guess in the Burton film, and the later animated shows, but if kept to his roots of being an arms dealer, I think he could be a real interesting villian for Batman to face. Just make Penguin a code name that he goes by due to his love of wearing tuxs all the time.
This.
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post #15 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUD Main Site Feed View Post
But hasn't he been rising for two films?

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I assumed that the title means that the film begins with him getting out of bed in the morning.
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post #16 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:47am
They should have just used the title from the unfilmed script for the proposed 5th Batman movie from the original franchise.

BATMAN TRIUMPHANT.

That works so well, and makes a lot of sense given the ending to The Dark Knight.
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post #17 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:47am
I could see a serious version of the penguin. Mob boss/Arms dealer with a penchent (ie NOT obsession) for penguins. Patton Oswald would be a interesting choice

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post #18 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:49am
Does anyone think that Victor Zsasz may appear in the third film? He was featured in Begins and was fairly memorable when he cornered Rachel with a knife after the mass break-out, but Zsasz is such a fantastic character and deserves more than a one-time cameo. Plus, the promotional websites for TDK established that he's still at large, and it would be interesting for Batman to encounter him on the streets, so...
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post #19 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:53am
Yep, it's a title alright. When I read it, it makes me think of vampires, which is not good. Or maybe a Phoenix, which isn't much better for DC.

I think a more serious take on the Penguin is doable.
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post #20 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:53am
Terrible Title.

And I've never understood why so many people think the Penguin is cartoony. He's just a mobster with a thing for tuxedoes and birds.
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post #21 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:53am
Zsasz is a terrible, cliche "psycho" character. He's like Bats' Venom.
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post #22 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:53am
Begins started out as "Intimidation Game". Still plenty of time to revise that shit.
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post #23 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
Zsasz is a terrible, cliche "psycho" character. He's like Bats' Venom.
There have been some fantastic story arcs for Zsasz. Plus, one of his most common origin stories involves gambling with the Penguin, so it's not entirely far-fetched for him to return.
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post #24 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
BATMAN RISES would have been better. Would have made a nice bookend to BEGINS. But it's the one called THE DARK KNIGHT that made a bajillion dollars, so ...
I'm reminded of Rambo III ditching the title of the franchise because of the second film's massive box office.

I was open to The Caped Crusader as a title. But I guess that would sound too "gay" to your average ticket buyer.

Bring in Talia al Ghul and the League Of Shadows to tempt the fallen Batman into becoming the murderous vigilante everyone assumes he is. That would give him something to rise from.

And cast Eva Green. That way, plenty of other things will be rising too.
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post #25 of 135
10/27/10 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post
(he didn't try to make Two-Face's condition especially realistic, allowing him to drink without so much as a reaction from the wounds)
What? Did you even watch the same scene I did? The shot is clearly shown leaking through the wound.
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post #26 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
What? Did you even watch the same scene I did? The shot is clearly shown leaking through the wound.
as soon as he put the glass down, he was wiping the excess off his chin with his shirt cuff.....
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post #27 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Begins started out as "Intimidation Game". Still plenty of time to revise that shit.
That was the title used to "hide the production", never the official title. I'm fine with this. It's smart. It keeps the TDK recognition, suggests movement for the character, and again, suggestively orbits around one of the better known stories from the Batman universe.
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post #28 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:05pm
I will totally accept the title if Batman loses the Froggy McBulldog voice in the process of "rising".
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post #29 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post
I'm reminded of Rambo III ditching the title of the franchise because of the second film's massive box office.

I was open to The Caped Crusader as a title. But I guess that would sound too "gay" to your average ticket buyer.
I'd love it if that was the title, but I'm the nerd that wanted all the Spider-man sequels to have fun titles like "The Amazing Spider-man," "Spectacular Spider-man."
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post #30 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeypants View Post
What? Did you even watch the same scene I did? The shot is clearly shown leaking through the wound.
It's how they made the wound seem like nothing more than very obvious CGI with no physical connection to the character whatsoever beyond it being plastered over his face. Regardless of Harvey's psychological state, drinking with a massive, untreated wound such as that would cause more than simply the drink leaking.

I was disappointed with Two-Face as a whole. I would have liked to see more practical work.
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post #31 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:10pm
It would cause severe pain that the mentally-unbalanced Harvey would probably ignore due to him being halfway through an intidimating entrance.
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post #32 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
I'd love it if that was the title, but I'm the nerd that wanted all the Spider-man sequels to have fun titles like "The Amazing Spider-man," "Spectacular Spider-man."
You're not alone. I like what Nolan is doing with the titles. I think comic book movies need to drop numerical sequel titles and go with "graphic novel" type individual titles.
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post #33 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:11pm
I might have fanwanked this into the story, but I'm under the impression Harvey had taken an incredible amount of painkillers once Joker freed him from the hospital.
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post #34 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Merriweather View Post
It would cause severe pain that the mentally-unbalanced Harvey would probably ignore due to him being halfway through an intidimating entrance.
It would still cause visibly more than the drink leaking, though, regardless of whether or not Harvey reacted to it by showing the agony with even the briefest flicker on his face. I was disappointed with how they missed such an opportunity to show how gross an untreated wound like that can become if left to the elements.
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post #35 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:13pm
I think you're one'a them "Batman is dark and nasty" types, arentcha. We don't take kindly to your type round here, boy! *spits*
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post #36 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
I might have fanwanked this into the story, but I'm under the impression Harvey had taken an incredible amount of painkillers once Joker freed him from the hospital.
If he was refusing even basic reconstruction work with skin grafts, then I doubt the guy would care enough to start popping painkillers. Then again, him taking unadvisable amounts of medication would have made the storyline even more interesting than the disappointingly clean version in the film.
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post #37 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post
BATMAN RISES would have been better. Would have made a nice bookend to BEGINS. But it's the one called THE DARK KNIGHT that made a bajillion dollars, so ...
Agreed. Kind of weird to live in a world where it's considered more commercially viable for a Batman movie not to have the name Batman in the title. Part of me wondered if they wouldn't just go for Dark Knight Returns. Obviously it couldn't be a straight adaptation, but aside from the middle age aspect the general story and themes of that comic actually follow on reasonably well from where Dark Knight ended.
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post #38 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:16pm
Yeah, good point. I suppose he's just so damn focused on his revenge against the crooked cops and the mob that he's shunting the pain.
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post #39 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
I might have fanwanked this into the story, but I'm under the impression Harvey had taken an incredible amount of painkillers once Joker freed him from the hospital.
This was my assumption. He's not terribly steady on his feet after he gets out either. But I also got the impression he's using the pain as fuel. Which, you know, is true to the character. That is to say, who gives a fuck about medical accuracy when that's the case?
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post #40 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post
It would still cause visibly more than the drink leaking, though, regardless of whether or not Harvey reacted to it by showing the agony with even the briefest flicker on his face. I was disappointed with how they missed such an opportunity to show how gross an untreated wound like that can become if left to the elements.
Surely the PG-13 has a say in this.
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post #41 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Nunziata View Post
I was being mostly silly.
I appreciated it as it made me giggle. Though, as someone mentioned, I think it's gonna be less the character and more the actor. The Joker, by almost all counts, is pretty cartoony on his own, Ledger just did a great job with flipping it. I think the same could be said for almost all of the villains.

And yeah - that's a bad title.
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post #42 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
Agreed. Kind of weird to live in a world where it's considered more commercially viable for a Batman movie not to have the name Batman in the title. Part of me wondered if they wouldn't just go for Dark Knight Returns. Obviously it couldn't be a straight adaptation, but aside from the middle age aspect the general story and themes of that comic actually follow on reasonably well from where Dark Knight ended.
Pretty sure WB isn't going to have any of their comic book movies Return(s)ing for a loooong time.
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post #43 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:18pm
Yeah, and I'm absolutely not arguing against that point. Let's assume that Harvey didn't react even in the slightest for psychological reasons. What I was mostly disappointed with was that, even if he was mentally shielding the pain like Superman, physically his wounds should have reacted more to the liquor than simply leaking it back out so cleanly.

Quote:
Surely the PG-13 has a say in this.
Possibly, but I'm sure that there are a few ways to show that kind of stuff without compromising a PG-13 rating.

Even so, this is all diverting somewhat from the main point: Nolan is not really slavish when it comes to his devotion to making Batman as realistic as possible. Therefore, a lot of classic Batman villains wouldn't be terribly innapropriate, even in his interpretation of the world.
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post #44 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco Senior View Post
Yeah, and I'm absolutely not arguing against that point. Let's assume that Harvey didn't react even in the slightest for psychological reasons. What I was mostly disappointed with was that, even if he was mentally shielding the pain like Superman, physically his wounds should have reacted more to the liquor than simply leaking it back out so cleanly.
At least 70% of Batman Begins is just as unrealistic. In the third act, about 110%.
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post #45 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:25pm
There's also a difference between "Two-Face's wounds aren't nasty enough" type fakery and "this guy invented a chemical and fell into it and now he lives inside a freezer that's been turned into a suit of armour oh and also his name is Fries" type fakery.
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post #46 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
I might have fanwanked this into the story, but I'm under the impression Harvey had taken an incredible amount of painkillers once Joker freed him from the hospital.
He rejected pain killers, that's the dialogue, so he was definitely letting the pain fuel his anger.
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post #47 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post
At least 70% of Batman Begins is just as unrealistic. In the third act, about 110%.
Yeah, and I acknowledge that. I think it was just jarring in TDK, if that makes any sense. Throughout Begins, I was at least thinking that Nolan was very much aware of the ridiculousness of the premise and was managing to not take it too seriously, making the leaps of logic easier to ignore. Plus, the leaps of logic weren't so much missed opportunities in that case, IMO.

Quote:
this guy invented a chemical and fell into it and now he lives inside a freezer that's been turned into a suit of armour oh and also his name is Fries"
If they design his suit like they designed Batman's armor in Begins, it could be easily explained through Nolan's inventive pseudo-science. All he has to do is use a few big medical terms with as straight a face as possible, ensure that the tragic elements of the character are kept, and the audience will eat it up.
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post #48 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:30pm
The title is...fine. The Dark Knight Rises, has...Tons, of superhero competition in, 2012, so right now, I would expect, TDKR, to be 6th, out of the...7 superhero films arriving that year.
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post #49 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:48pm
Eh. It suggests a beginning rather than an ending, which is what this is supposed to be.
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post #50 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:55pm
TRANSFORMERS 2: Revenge of the Fallen
GI JOE: The Rise of Cobra

Enough with the falling/rising! I vote for SHADOW OF THE BAT or LEGEND OF THE DARK KNIGHT!

But you guys go back to talking about Two-Face's 2facehole.
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