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THE DARK KNIGHT RISES? - Page 2

post #51 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:58pm
Overreaction to the title. It's fine.

The more intriguing elements for me are the fruition of the redemption story, the villains that will stand in the way, and the new female that Batman will almost undoubtedly rescue from certain death. Plenty of debate can be had on that stuff. All of which is more interesting to me than talk about a title.

And TDK>BB
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post #52 of 135
10/27/10 at 12:58pm
What's wrong with THE CAPED CRUSADER? Too Saturday matinee?
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post #53 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:02pm
"Holy Third Film, Batman" is the title I would have went with.
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post #54 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorF View Post
Overreaction to the title. It's fine.

The more intriguing elements for me are the fruition of the redemption story, the villains that will stand in the way, and the new female that Batman will almost undoubtedly rescue from certain death. Plenty of debate can be had on that stuff. All of which is more interesting to me than talk about a title.

And TDK>BB
Sure. Plenty of debate... when we receive those particular details in a future article. Otherwise, it's fanwankery. There' s thread for that.
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post #55 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:06pm
why does it have to be a bat villain in the next film? Given bats is a wanted murderer, it would make sense for the govt/police to send in a hero(ic) character (or at least a merc) to hunt him down. Hell you could even have Dick Grayson do it...
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post #56 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:07pm
Well, if the rumors of Catwoman having a role in the story are true, at least we're assured that there won't be a Rachel Dawes 2.0 to serve as the romantic interest and occasional damsel in distress. Unless, of course, Nolan displays a break from his normally solid casting and brings in another Katie Holmes.
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post #57 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
Sure. Plenty of debate... when we receive those particular details in a future article. Otherwise, it's fanwankery. There' s thread for that.
And there's not plenty of fanwankery in complaining about the title?
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post #58 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:11pm
It's not a bad title, it's not a great title...it's just a title.

I'm just wondering where they're going to go with the story. How are they going to end it? I'm assuming this is Nolan's last Bat film, correct? So is this the end of the franchise or just the end of his take on the series?

Also, as far as villains:

I hate Catwoman. Never, EVER liked her.

The Penguin could be done perfectly fine in a realistic fashion, but the mob was the main thrust of the second film so would they really want to go back to that? But of course the mob has always been such a large part of Batman's world.

I haven't read a comic in about 10 years...have any interesting new Batman villains come out in that time?
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post #59 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love Machine View Post
why does it have to be a bat villain in the next film? Given bats is a wanted murderer, it would make sense for the govt/police to send in a hero(ic) character (or at least a merc) to hunt him down. Hell you could even have Dick Grayson do it...
Oh! I actually really love that idea! That would be awesome!
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post #60 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:14pm
Yeah... It's not the best title they could have come up with. But whatever. I'm more concerned about the content.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the villains were Penguin and Catwoman again. Seeing as TDK was a "remake" of Batman (You could even argue that Anthony Michael Hall was a revisionist take on Alexander Knox!), I'd appreciate a remake of Batman Returns.

...

About the title... I'm still disappointed that the second one wasn't called Batman Continues. You know why? Because, that way, this one could have been called Batman Ends. And that means that - in Spanish - they would have translated it as Batman Termina or Batman Acaba.

The endless laughter that would have provided for me is something I miss.

Any Latin American board members will understand why. Unless you're Colombian... Where it would have to be Batman Se Corre. But... Anyway... I'm bored. Carry on.
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post #61 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
What's wrong with THE CAPED CRUSADER? Too Saturday matinee?
Yep. Although, I keep waiting for someone to at least say it.

The sad irony is that all the good titles are taken, or financial suicide (Returns).
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post #62 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:22pm
SHADOW OF THE BAT or SHADOW OF THE BATMAN would have been ideal.
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post #63 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorF View Post
And there's not plenty of fanwankery in complaining about the title?
It's at least on topic. And when I said "fanwankery", I should have said "fan-fiction". But that's the way the Bat-cookie crumbles in these threads.

Jabs at BB's 3rd Act? Check.
Villain theories? Check.
I haven't seen any fan art or ridiculous theories that Two Face is still alive though.
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post #64 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:31pm
I don't think I've said this before, but the Catwoman hatred and the general resistance to the character is stupid. There are so many versions of that character in the comics alone that it's entirely too easy to do something outside of the Julie Newmar or Michelle Pfeiffer model.

If she's in the film, and I strongly suspect that she is, I'm very eager to see how Nolan plays her against his Batman. Thematically, she's actually one of the best villains he could use to end his run on.

Edit: On the plus side, no more "Zodiac Riddler" fanwank bullshit.
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post #65 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:35pm
Horrible title, but I'm not sure what you could replace it with. It's all silly.

And thank the gods he's finally shot down The Riddler. I can't tell you how many times random people tell me about Joseph Gordon-Levitt or Johnny Depp is playing the fuckin' Riddler in the next Batman.

Now to kill the Philip Seymour Hoffman as Penguin rumor.
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post #66 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:41pm
To me, wanting Catwoman is "fanwank bullshit". I'm more in the camp of wanting the villains to be less rogues gallery and more organized crime-y because I think more originality can come from it. Seeing different iterations of the same bad guys in movie form gets old.
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post #67 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
It's at least on topic.
Well, the article in question does talk about villains in as much as that the Riddler won't be in the film. I kind of feel this thread can be pretty open to the discussing of any and all things Batman concerned.
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post #68 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:43pm
Someone should just start a THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Pre-Release Thread and unleash the beast.
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post #69 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:55pm
Rises seems so banal. I'm sure there are other words that can say the same thing.

The Dark Knight Erect?
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post #70 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matches View Post
To me, wanting Catwoman is "fanwank bullshit". I'm more in the camp of wanting the villains to be less rogues gallery and more organized crime-y because I think more originality can come from it. Seeing different iterations of the same bad guys in movie form gets old.
And I assume more ticket sales, right? Be realistic. Two things held back Batman Begins box office: one, it came after Batman & Robin and two, no one knows who the fuck Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow are. I enjoy the movie quite a bit, and love those villains as a Batman fan, but the fact remains that there are certain characters the general public knows and want to see, and it's certainly not fucking mobsters. Nolan and the WB are keenly aware of this, I'm sure.

Given that, you go with the characters that have the best name recognition and story possibilities, i.e., someone like Catwoman. Showing a little business sense doesn't mean sacrificing creativity.
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post #71 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matches View Post
Someone should just start a THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Pre-Release Thread and unleash the beast.
Good idea.
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post #72 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
I don't think I've said this before, but the Catwoman hatred and the general resistance to the character is stupid. There are so many versions of that character in the comics alone that it's entirely too easy to do something outside of the Julie Newmar or Michelle Pfeiffer model.

If she's in the film, and I strongly suspect that she is, I'm very eager to see how Nolan plays her against his Batman. Thematically, she's actually one of the best villains he could use to end his run on.
Agreed. I think in many ways she'd be extremely easy to integrate into Nolan's Gotham, and could provide some nice tension as a "grey" figure, sometimes working against Bats and sometimes with.

But I'm really hating the title. Here's hoping it's simply a working version. The "Rises" part, as noted above, seems more fitting for the beginning or middle of a story, rather than the conclusion.

Quote:
Edit: On the plus side, no more "Zodiac Riddler" fanwank bullshit.
Fucking A-men.
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post #73 of 135
10/27/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll View Post
Good, now we can delete that Batman 3 speculation thread.
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post #74 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
Agreed. I think in many ways she'd be extremely easy to integrate into Nolan's Gotham, and could provide some nice tension as a "grey" figure, sometimes working against Bats and sometimes with.

But I'm really hating the title. Here's hoping it's simply a working version. The "Rises" part, as noted above, seems more fitting for the beginning or middle of a story, rather than the conclusion.
For people to pigeonhole the character seems really silly to me. Batman has the most pliable rogues gallery in comics, fitting since he's the most pliable superhero in comics.

And, yeah, I understand why people have an issue with the title, but I can't be bothered with it. In all honestly, it's been way in the back of my mind when the subject of this film comes up.
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post #75 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8 View Post
TRANSFORMERS 2: Revenge of the Fallen
GI JOE: The Rise of Cobra

Enough with the falling/rising!
This is pretty much why I don't like the title at the moment.
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post #76 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
And I assume more ticket sales, right? Be realistic. Two things held back Batman Begins box office: one, it came after Batman & Robin and two, no one knows who the fuck Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow are. I enjoy the movie quite a bit, and love those villains as a Batman fan, but the fact remains that there are certain characters the general public knows and want to see, and it's certainly not fucking mobsters. Nolan and the WB are keenly aware of this, I'm sure.

Given that, you go with the characters that have the best name recognition and story possibilities, i.e., someone like Catwoman. Showing a little business sense doesn't mean sacrificing creativity.
I agree with you that no one knows who the fuck Ra's Al Ghul or the Scarecrow are, and that's why I said I wish they wouldn't use Batman's rogues gallery for the movies.
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post #77 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:06pm
Suggested title: IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY KNIGHT.

I almost think WB has to go with a "name" villian like Penguin or Catwoman. They got away with Ghul for the first one, because it was a reboot, but Joker set the bar pretty high, and I think audiences will crave another iconic villain.

Glad to see I'm not the only person who prefers BEGINS to KNIGHT.
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post #78 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by matches View Post
I agree with you that no one knows who the fuck Ra's Al Ghul or the Scarecrow are, and that's why I said I wish they wouldn't use Batman's rogues gallery for the movies.
So just dudes in pinstripe suits? Or a movie only McVillain? Batman's rogues gallery is one of the major reasons, if not the major reason for his enduring popularity.
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post #79 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:10pm
Disappointing title. I spent a lot of time (too much) speculating about titles and apparently the people responsible for naming the movie did not. They could have done a lot better. I was imagining them going with "The World's Greatest Detective" to use another Batman moniker (and it would have fit if The Riddler was the villain, since it could be about how he would fancy himself worthy of such a title, only to be thwarted by Batman). I guess that title would have been too long and clunky, but at least it wouldn't have been almost exactly the same as the title of the previous movie. I am sick of these "rise" titles:

"Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines"
"Hannibal Rising"
"Carlito's Way: Rise to Power"
"4: Rise of the Silver Surfer"
"Van Wilder 2: The Rise of Taj"
"The Scorpion King: Rise of a Warrior"
"G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra"
"Underworld: Rise of the Lycans"

Not exactly prestigious company.
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post #80 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
So just dudes in pinstripe suits? Or a movie only McVillain? Batman's rogues gallery is one of the major reasons, if not the major reason for his enduring popularity.
Don't forget the fedoras.
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post #81 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
And, yeah, I understand why people have an issue with the title, but I can't be bothered with it. In all honestly, it's been way in the back of my mind when the subject of this film comes up.
The good news is that, at this point, the title is the least important part. Thanks to the success of TDK and INCEPTION, Nolan's name and knowing it's a continuation of the same world is what's going to sell tickets.

But even BATMAN RISES would have been better; as someone said, it would have had a nice bookend feel and wouldn't feel as, well, lazy as THE DARK KNIGHT RISES.
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post #82 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:18pm
Just from a marketing perspective, I would expect there to be at least one iconic villain in the film. It'd be an unusual move if they made the movie completely mob-centric (without including a character like the Penguin in there). That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a Batman film that involves some more detective work. Making a good detective story is challenging. Making one where the detective is a dude dressed up as a bat is probably more so. But it would be a nice nod to some of the great early Batman comics.

I still think we'll end up with an iconic villain though. It'd be hard to sell the movie to the average film fan otherwise.
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post #83 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:24pm
Knightfall would've been a great title if that didn't threaten to bring Jean Paul Valley's bitch ass into the mix.
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post #84 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:24pm
The title is beyond terrible, but who really gives a shit? Anyways, they should have simply flipped it around to Rise of the Dark Knight if they really fucking wanted to include the banal "rising" phrase.
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post #85 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post
Knightfall would've been a great title if that didn't threaten to bring Jason Todd's bitch ass into the mix.
Ohhhh... I like that.
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post #86 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:28pm
The Dark Knight Rises is a stupid and lazy title. So was Batman Begins. Avoiding an iconic villain because he or she is unrealistic is ridiculous for a movie based on a superhero comic book.
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post #87 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:30pm
Gangsters and FBI agents hunting the Batman isn't going to sell action figures.
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post #88 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan "Nordling" Cerny View Post
Eh. It suggests a beginning rather than an ending, which is what this is supposed to be.
Yeah, that's exactly what I came in here to post. I hope the plan hasn't changed. My only interest in this is that Nolan viewed it as an actual end to the story, not just as a third entry to a franchise --even if it would be the final run of Nolan and Bale's take on the character. But...but...just a title.
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post #89 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hill View Post
Avoiding an iconic villain because he or she is unrealistic is ridiculous for a movie based on a superhero comic book.
But I don't think Nolan is choosing purely on realistic/unrealistic grounds. Much as we like to kick that dead equine, Nolan's said in interviews that he wanted to "ground" the movies in a believable reality, not make documentaries.

I think Nolan, Nolan and Goyer chose the villain(s) based on thematic congruity as well as how adaptable they are to Nolan's Gotham. He's made smart, cinematic choices so far re: villain choices and interpretations. And the Joker, IMNSHO, opened up the possibilities for more comic-y villains. Without completely changing what he is, the Riddler is simply very bad fit for the fims (as is Victor Freeze). I trust Nolan's ability to choose a good, screenworthy villain.
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post #90 of 135
10/27/10 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigam Retah View Post
Gangsters and FBI agents hunting the Batman isn't going to sell action figures.
It's Mattel. They're just mainly going to sell a bunch of variations of Batman anyway. They don't need villains.
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post #91 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:07pm
I stand by my "Black Mask as an evil bruce wayne" fanwankery, people.
Not too crazy about the title either.
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post #92 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:12pm
Wouldn't that kinda be more like Hush?
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post #93 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
Wouldn't that kinda be more like Hush?
Yeah, but Black Mask is more interesting visually, I think.
Plus, if you add Catwoman to the mix, Black Mask coulf fit as well.
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post #94 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:17pm
I have my doubts that Nolan would go as far as that storyline did.
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post #95 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:17pm
You have to let all those people who came to see that Heath Ledger movie know that this is indeed the sequel to it.
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post #96 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:18pm
As opposed to those that didn't think that The Dark Knight was the sequel to Batman Begins?
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post #97 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:21pm
I'd say there was a good amount of people who weren't really aware of that, or at least wouldn't have been interested in DK if it wasn't for Ledger's Joker and more to the point...Ledger's untimely demise.

I mean it would have still made the monies, but just sayin'. Grandmas came out to see that shit.
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post #98 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoolong View Post
I have my doubts that Nolan would go as far as that storyline did.
Well, yeah, but could be adapted and mixed up with other stories...I'd love to see a "Wargames" style story, where the post TDK gotham crime families and gangs just go into an all out war and essentially turn Gotham into a warzone after Joker pretty much wrecking their status quo and leadership, with Black Mask manipulating events in the middle.
Maybe I just want to see Batman truly fight a one man war on crime on a huge scale.
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post #99 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post
Well, yeah, but could be adapted and mixed up with other stories...I'd love to see a "Wargames" style story, where the post TDK gotham crime families and gangs just go into an all out war and essentially turn Gotham into a warzone after Joker pretty much wrecking their status quo and leadership, with Black Mask manipulating events in the middle.
Maybe I just want to see Batman truly fight a one man war on crime on a huge scale.
I think that's close to the concept of the Arkham Asylum sequel, everything I've read about it so far reminds me of War Games or No Man's Land. I'd like to see something like that too, and the ending of TDK would make you think that's what Gotham has devolved into.
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post #100 of 135
10/27/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorF View Post
Well, the article in question does talk about villains in as much as that the Riddler won't be in the film. I kind of feel this thread can be pretty open to the discussing of any and all things Batman concerned.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
And I assume more ticket sales, right? Be realistic. Two things held back Batman Begins box office: one, it came after Batman & Robin and two, no one knows who the fuck Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow are. I enjoy the movie quite a bit, and love those villains as a Batman fan, but the fact remains that there are certain characters the general public knows and want to see, and it's certainly not fucking mobsters. Nolan and the WB are keenly aware of this, I'm sure.

Given that, you go with the characters that have the best name recognition and story possibilities, i.e., someone like Catwoman. Showing a little business sense doesn't mean sacrificing creativity.
My thoughts as well. The mob underworld is always present (as it has been in BB and TDK), but making them more than set dressing or catalysts/secondary baddies might not appeal to general audiences. Course, "SOPRANOS/THE SHIELD with Batman" might make an interesting TV series. But a summer superhero movie needs to be bigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
But even BATMAN RISES would have been better;
And an easy jumping off point for the XXX parody!
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