THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Pre-Release Thread - Page 82

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Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 

I think it's pretty evident that the Lazarus Pit in this film IS the prison in the well that Bruce is sent down into. So, symbolically, Bruce rises from it and escaping is the resurrection and fulfillment of health.

Really, man? Right now it's just a hole in the ground. Wait till you see the thing in context before you start assigning subtext.

I'm thinking, if there is a lazarus pit, it will only a be a hot spring located in the mountians.  Maybe a flash back of Ra's using it to "cook" plants and such, and once inhaled, it acts as a natural pain killer.  That is what Bane uses, and later maybe Bruce uses a more advanced form to combat his own pain. 

Both films, have had an evolution when it comes to a plot points like this.  The blue flowers in Begins, and the phone sonar in The Dark Knight.

And no, Henry Ducard will not be back in anything more then a flashback.  Can't see Nolan relying on cheap parlor tricks.

Ra's might be back, and I think that will be Miranda Tate.  Goes into her swearing she isn't Talia.  Nope, she's the new Ra's.     

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Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

And no, Henry Ducard will not be back in anything more then a flashback.  Can't see Nolan relying on cheap parlor tricks.

Ra's might be back, and I think that will be Miranda Tate.  Goes into her swearing she isn't Talia.  Nope, she's the new Ra's.     

Maybe they'll go with what they did in Batman Beyond and have R'as transplant his mind into the body of Talia?

No?  Not grounded enough?

I'm fully expecting a major 3rd act swerve.  If I had to guess, Miranda is in charge, and Bane is her figure head.  He poses as the leader, but in reality, she is. 

Miranda Tate is really Catwoman!  Anne Hathaway is just a decoy!

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Originally Posted by neoolong 

Miranda Tate is really Catwoman!  Anne Hathaway is just a decoy!

So, Anne Hathaway is playing Anne Hathaway?

Marion Cotillard is playing Miranda Tate playing Anne Hathaway playing Catwoman.

INCEPTION.

The Lazarus Pit -- the most boring ongoing speculation concerning THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. I'll be so happy when the movie comes out (with no Lazarus pit) for the sole reason that I won't have to hear about the stupid Lazarus pit anymore.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

 

Really, man? Right now it's just a hole in the ground. Wait till you see the thing in context before you start assigning subtext.

It's written all over the wall, Jacknife. The Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Wayne climbing up a gigantic well which leads to the prison he was sent into. A prison in which he's been training and doing push ups. In the comics, the Lazarus Pit was a literal rejuvenation bath that healed wounds and de-aged. How can you not see the parallels here? Chris Nolanized the pit to be a literal hole but a non-literal resurrection. Not to mention he's connected it (full circle!) back to small well he fell into and his father saved him. The true test of a man is now rising out of metaphorically from defeat. When he was a boy, his father helped him. Now his father is no longer there. "Why do we fall, Bruce? So that we can learn to pick *ourselves* up."

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Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

Bane has Batman's broken mask, so it's clear that Bane won round 1.

That's not a finished cowl -- it's one of the molds they ordered in bulk in Batman Begins. Bane definitely finds his way into Wayne Manor and the cave, but I don't think it's any indication of a fight.

Reading up to page 82, it looks like the speculation is going to get more and more goofy, the closer we get to release.

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Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

The Lazarus Pit -- the most boring ongoing speculation concerning THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. I'll be so happy when the movie comes out (with no Lazarus pit) for the sole reason that I won't have to hear about the stupid Lazarus pit anymore.

Sorry for even bringing it up. I just remembered seeing the pics a long time ago, and for my part hadn't heard anything about it since. Didn't know it was going to spark debate over whether or not it was some kind of metaphorical hole to do push-ups in.

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Originally Posted by D.T. 

 

That's not a finished cowl -- it's one of the molds they ordered in bulk in Batman Begins. Bane definitely finds his way into Wayne Manor and the cave, but I don't think it's any indication of a fight.

That would be really misleading, don't you think? Especially in light of the poster.

It's pretty clear to me that Bane and Batman do fight in the Batcave. That's what we're seeing in thelatest trailer. Batman is arriving/leaving the Batcave and surprise surprise Bane is there and he knows he's Bruce Wayne. They fight and Batman gets the shit beat out of him. I'm shocked how much this looks like it's following Knightfall so far. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.T. 

 

That's not a finished cowl -- it's one of the molds they ordered in bulk in Batman Begins. Bane definitely finds his way into Wayne Manor and the cave, but I don't think it's any indication of a fight.

 

Reading up to page 82, it looks like the speculation is going to get more and more goofy, the closer we get to release.

Clearly they still have the wrong graphite mix then.  Batman should really talk to the factory in China about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.T. 

 

That's not a finished cowl -- it's one of the molds they ordered in bulk in Batman Begins. Bane definitely finds his way into Wayne Manor and the cave, but I don't think it's any indication of a fight.

 

Reading up to page 82, it looks like the speculation is going to get more and more goofy, the closer we get to release.

.... you are being sarcastic, right?

do you really think Bane get's into Wayne manner, finds a box of unused cowls, and decides to carry one around?  

I don't think you can comment on speculation getting goofy.  

But who knows, if I wrote his character, I'd have him carry it around like a kid carrying a doll.  Maybe he can talk to it.  

Not a mask, but he does have a teddy bear named Osito he carried around.  Does that count?

only if he has it wear a mask.  That would be really cute.

He could call the bear Mr Batman. 

The fight (Yes there is a fight. Parts of it are in almost every trailer.) looks like it takes place in some sort of sewer system. Why would Bruce install so many pipes? It also goes with the scenes of Catwoman/Batman fighting the mercenries underground and Gordon and the police in the middle of a raid of a similar area. Bane's lair also looks to be in the same spot as was sown in the Mtv footage.

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Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 

 

It's written all over the wall, Jacknife. The Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Wayne climbing up a gigantic well which leads to the prison he was sent into. A prison in which he's been training and doing push ups. In the comics, the Lazarus Pit was a literal rejuvenation bath that healed wounds and de-aged. How can you not see the parallels here? Chris Nolanized the pit to be a literal hole but a non-literal resurrection. Not to mention he's connected it (full circle!) back to small well he fell into and his father saved him. The true test of a man is now rising out of metaphorically from defeat. When he was a boy, his father helped him. Now his father is no longer there. "Why do we fall, Bruce? So that we can learn to pick *ourselves* up."

I can't see the parallels because I haven't seen the movie. There's some information we have that allows us to draw an educated guess about some elements of the film, but Wayne crawling out of a well or whatever the hell it is, out of context, doesn't mean anything. Honestly, even if your "reading" ends up being the case, I won't be sorry that I said this because there's no way anyone could be so comfortably specific based on so little.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

 

I can't see the parallels because I haven't seen the movie. There's some information we have that allows us to draw an educated guess about some elements of the film, but Wayne crawling out of a well or whatever the hell it is, out of context, doesn't mean anything. Honestly, even if your "reading" ends up being the case, I won't be sorry that I said this because there's no way anyone could be so comfortably specific based on so little.

Nevermind what he is adding up, doesn't make sense

Here is the image of the pit, apparently.

Yep, totally the same.  LOL

I can't wait to see Bane kick Batmans ass.  This version of Batman has lacked that kind of detective flourish that shows like BBC's Sherlock or Supernatural embrace as the main strength of their heroes.  Bales Batman is best at kicking butt, so it will be nice to see him outclassed by somebody who evidently has a lot more going for him than physical menace.

Honestly, Bale's Batman does more detecting than any of the other screen incarnations thus far. He spends pretty much the first half of Dark Knight out of costume, searching for clues and doing daylight investigations. And there's the whole sequence of him in The Narrows in Begins hunting down who was really behind bringing in the drugs (leading up to his first run-in with Scarecrow). It's not on the level of the animated series or some of the comics, but Batman's never been as clue-based as Sherlock to begin with.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

 

I can't see the parallels because I haven't seen the movie. There's some information we have that allows us to draw an educated guess about some elements of the film, but Wayne crawling out of a well or whatever the hell it is, out of context, doesn't mean anything. Honestly, even if your "reading" ends up being the case, I won't be sorry that I said this because there's no way anyone could be so comfortably specific based on so little.

Fair enough, Jacknife. I could be wrong too, I've just been following set reports, stills, and speculation for a very long time now and that's probably why I'm so comfortable with my theory. But to each his own. I'm not asking you to be wrong or anything. I'm just asking you to consider this as possible. I'm speculating too, I'm just placing bets is all.

Also, Monster Pete: It's not as round as the digitally enhanced expandable well, but the pit has a green screen inside of it, which could mean it was used to digitally expand down. I doubt it was used to digitally put in a spring.

Why does that upset you Sairus?
 

Fair enough.  In Arkham City they keep stressing that he's the worlds greatest detective, so I assumed he was more in line with a Sherlock Holmes.

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Originally Posted by Freeman 

keep stressing that he's the worlds greatest detective

Comics gotta give a superhero a super human thing.

So he actually is in the comics or they just say he is a bunch?

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Originally Posted by Freeman 

So he actually is in the comics or they just say he is a bunch?

There's a whole Batman comic book series called "The World's Greatest Detective" if I'm not mistaken. How far they take that I don't know. I'm not a comic reader.

He does some sleuthing in the better stories, though it's more just to show that the dude's really smart and really cunning. If it's a Justice League team up, chances are he's the one doing the figuring of things out. The "world's greatest detective" comes from him constantly getting the better of villains whose real weapon is their minds. It's also something that Ra's Al Guhl condescendingly calls him to get Batman's goat. But he's never been Sherlock in tights.

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Originally Posted by SAIRUS 

So I saw a bunch of Batman toys on sale at Barnes & Noble, and it revealed what the giant light gun Batman was wielding in the trailers...Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

EMP gun

Take a look at the little mini-figure sets. I spotted a few the other day and it looks like Bane is striking dance poses in each one.

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Originally Posted by Greg Clark 

He does some sleuthing in the better stories, though it's more just to show that the dude's really smart and really cunning. If it's a Justice League team up, chances are he's the one doing the figuring of things out. The "world's greatest detective" comes from him constantly getting the better of villains whose real weapon is their minds. It's also something that Ra's Al Guhl condescendingly calls him to get Batman's goat. But he's never been Sherlock in tights.

I thought Nolan did that well in the previous two films. He's not the greatest detective ever but he's certainly smart. I know some people didn't like that he was stumbling upon answers in Begins because of everyone else around him, like Fox. But I think that was a screenplay shorthand for the film that spend roughly an hour establishing Batman. It didn't bother me.

I'm sticking with my "Batman is using a cane because he got his ass beat by Bane" theory. Those of you that are theorizing that he's using it because of the fall at the end of TDK or some sort of wear and tear he as endured as Batman; I just think you're insane.

... and let me say this. If this movie doesn't have Batman getting crippled by Bane at some point I'm going to be severely disappointed. Everything about the film so far has been (to me anyway) very clearly pointing to a battle damaged Batman that must... RISE. Anything other than this would be a pretty major problem for me. Especially in a film that will end up being about 30 minutes too long no matter how you slice it.

And no, I do not believe the "rise" is Batman coming out of his (alleged) "retirement" in TDK... which I believe wasn't a retirement but just an indication that he no longer had the police as allies in his vigilantism anymore. 
 

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

You know how they demonstrate his detective skills in the comics? Someone says "you'll never guess what" and Batman replies "I figured that out two weeks ago and I've developed a comprehensive contingency plan". Anyone who claims it's way more than that is either lying, doesn't know what they're talking about, or both.

I swear some fans want a whole movie of him thinking and pondering shit.

RE: the Lazarus Pit:  I can't see Nolan using that as it'd be a tremendous cheat to reveal that kind of healing power in the third and final film in a series.  People will ask why Wayne didn't take Dent there. 

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

The fact that people are still even bothering to debate the subject proves to me that way too many of those people have no idea of how to acclimate themselves to the reality of the films they pay to see.

A lot of people don't know what an "adaptation" means. They feel because it was in one medium that it should have a checklist of things that that medium did.

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Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 

 

I swear some fans want a whole movie of him thinking and pondering shit.

Don't we already have those movies?  Didn't mean that as an attack against Nolan's trilogy, but they do contain, if not strictly when it comes to Batman's character, quite a bit of pondering.  If fans simply wanted that, then I think that they would be satisfied with what has made it to the screen.

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Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

 

Don't we already have those movies?  Didn't mean that as an attack against Nolan's trilogy, but they do contain, if not strictly when it comes to Batman's character, quite a bit of pondering.  If fans simply wanted that, then I think that they would be satisfied with what has made it to the screen.

I guess I misspoke. I meant a whole film of Batman trying to solve a mystery as a wannabe P.I. 

I don't mind Batman/Bruce thinking and pondering. I don't mind cerebral Batman. 

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Originally Posted by brandhay 

RE: the Lazarus Pit:  I can't see Nolan using that as it'd be a tremendous cheat to reveal that kind of healing power in the third and final film in a series.  People will ask why Wayne didn't take Dent there. 

How would he even know about it? Jesus, 'people' ask the dumbest goddamn questions.

As for the detective thing, I'd agree this set of films have - so far - shown enough of it to be doing with. When your leading character is a ninja dressed like Dracula, it's kind of odd to want to see him spend most of the film doing CSI/Sherlock stuff.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 


You're going to feel awfully dim on July 20th. Batman is on the cane when talking to Fox about being retired. The guy is retired at the start of the film, it's been said as much and shown. Can he not be physically debilitated twice in his life? He's clearly going to get laid out by Bane because he's old and not in shape.

It's amussing to think that people can't piece together the trailers. 

Bane destroys much of Gotham in the trailers.  Football fields, the stock market exchange, bridges!  He knows who Batman IS!  It was said in the last trailer.  We can piece together that the underground fight takes place early.  How?  Well, Catwoman prevents Batman's escape (we know they team up in the climax, so her being bad takes place in ActI), and forces him to fight Bane.  We see Batman get beat up by Bane, and we see Bane carrying a broken cowl.  We also have seen scenes of Bane talking to an unmasked Bruce telling him that he can die after Gotham is destroyed.  That most likely takes place right after Batman has his mask ripped off.  He even asks Bane, why don't you kill me?   So, we can clearly assume that after their first fight, Bane captures Bruce.  We've seen Bruce in a prison cell as well, and him escaping (apparently). 

So, let me get this straight, people think that Bruce, after escaping, is going to fancy gatherings and dancing with Selina Kyle? 

Isn't it more realistic, that Bruce, after suffering injuries seen or unseen before this film, is really hurt.  Bane takes advantage of that fact, and beats an already weakened Batman. 

But sure, I guess it can be.  Bane and Bruce fight, Bruce is hurt, but Bane allows Bruce to live, and to go to parties with Selina, who then warns him of an obvious storm that he already knows is coming????  Who's insane? 

TimothyQ, you also do know that Nolan has said in interviews that Batman HAS been gone for 8 years.  That when this movie starts, 8 years after TDK, Batman has been retired because of the Dent Act, and the majority of the Mafia being locked away.

According to director Christopher Nolan, The Dark Knight Rises “picks up” eight years after The Dark Knight; it is what he called the film's “jumping off point,” and that this was done primarily to give meaning to a “big sacrifice, a big compromise” that occurred at the end of The Dark Knight between Gordon and Batman and that it “takes time to establish that and to show that” meaning. Entertainment Weekly magazine stated that the film will explore the ramifications and repercussions of the ending of The Dark Knight. Actor Gary Oldman stated that Gotham City has been cleaned-up with the “Harvey Dent Act,” but the city is “seething” below the surface. Nolan said that Gotham has “moved on” after The Dark Knight, and the city has gotten “better in a sense.” Gotham is prospering from Batman and Gordon's deception “superficially,” as the cracks have been “papered over,” Nolan said to Entertainment Weekly. Nolan said Gotham has come to revere Harvey Dent in the way Batman intended at the end of The Dark Knight within those eight years. Co-writer Jonathan Nolan stated that Batman's plan to “stamp out crime” had succeeded.

Christopher Nolan said that The Dark Knight Rises is about “finishing Batman and Bruce Wayne's story.” He also said that Bruce is “not in a great state,” and “He's frozen in time. He's hit a brick wall,” and that he “has nowhere to go” after The Dark Knight. Entertainment Weekly stated that Bruce is “still recovering from the physical and psychological traumas of his Joker/Two-Face double whammy,” and that Batman was “still a reviled cultural scapegoat.” It said that Batman “continues to be reviled and MIA as the story begins,” but new threats to the city will “force Batman to end his exile