TEASING THE RED STATE

I can't believe I'm intrigued by a Kevin Smith film. More than intrigues, even - there's actual honest-to-God anticipation going on here!

Eh, cool poster but I can't say I have high hopes for this. Smith's strengths have never been his eye or directing skills, so I'm not sure why anyone would have thought he'd be able to sell a creepy slow burner atmospheric horror film

It's an intriguing concept, but I just have to remind myself not to get my hopes up

I'm glad myers87 got some work, but that poster's not gonna be worth much with all that wear.

Yay. More crap. I'm glad Kevin's having fun, though.

Curious to see this mostly for the writing. I don't expect much from Smith as a visualist (although I suppose that means this is where he has the most room to surprise me) but there's almost no excuse for this to be a film not be about some really interesting ideas.

Just found out a few weeks ago that Michael Parks is the lead in this (or has a major role). That alone is enough to get me interested.

Oh, man. You all are really going to fall for this, aren't you?

I think it'd be churlish not to at least give the man a shot, given how far he's leapt out of his comfort zone on this thing. You can't spend years bemoaning his lack of ambition then scoff when he casts people like Parks and John Goodman in a film entirely unlike anything he's done before.

Wasn't that the pitch for Cop Out? Swapping out Parks for Willis etc etc?

I think buddy-cop comedy was still very much an extension of Smith's usual schtick, though. A horror is a totally different beast - this is a real sink-or-swim situation for Smith. He's got nowhere to hide.

We'll see. Need a trailer.

Yep. I would like to see some footage mainly because nothing so far in Smith's filmography suggests that he can direct a film like this. And the poster is pretty amateurish too.

I'm a fan for the most part, so I want this to be good, but then again I also wanted COP OUT to be good and well...

I'll admit I'm curious in a morbid sense, but that guy's worn out all the "shots" I'm ever going to give him.

I will eat my words..hat...crow.. whatever you want me to eat if that movie has half the atmosphere the poster attempts to have.

Also as far as giving him a shot. hasn't that been his entire career since Amy?

I think Smith's output mostly sucks but also have to agree that sneering at him for this is churlish. If he was doing Cop Out 2 or Clerks 3 or the equivalent he'd be torn to pieces. About the only credible option is to cut ties to the past and try something totally different. He's doing just that and good on him for it.

He's never shown any flair as a director whatsoever, which makes me doubt that he can pull this off, but then we have almost no frame of reference to guess what a serious Kevin Smith horror movie would even be like. But the old school slightly Hammerish vibe of the poster is a nice start and I'm honestly curious to see how this turns out.

Shown no flair? He barely shows competence. This movie won't be good. The guy stinks within his comfort zone

I'll be the fool. I'd written Smith off and never thought he'd get this movie off the ground. But it looks like he financed it himself and plowed through and actually had a cut to show at the wrap party. There's some renewed energy going on here (from pot to coke?).

But most of all, it's the cast that interests me. No ViewAskew people in it at all! It looks like it was actually... cast.

I'm curiously optimistic about the idea of this film, at any rate. Just that someone is tackling Christian extremists as the basis for a horror film in this climate piques my interest, especially from someone as publicly devout as Smith. We'll see. I'm willing to give him a fair shake at the moment, though I worry it will follow in the footsteps of some of the preachier segments of Dogma.

At this point, I think we can denigrate Kevin Smith's filmmaking ability without appearing churlish. Kevin Smith is deserving of churl, and this hastily Photoshopped graphic and Kevin's "I called it the Holy Ghost, isn't that cooool?" quote aren't enough to persuade me.

I'm your churlishberry.

Another way of saying that is "his career is in the shitter and this is some sort of hail Mary." I get the sentiment, but you're more than reaching across the aisle for him. This sentiment is kissin' cousins with "he has spina bifida and deserves props for getting out of bed every day." He's been making movies for almost TWENTY YEARS, guys.

So, you were concerned he had no money?

That he financed it himself is going to be spun into "going back to his roots...and this time, he brought REAL ACTORS", but not a huge cause for optimism, there.

But not morbid in a Kevin Smith sense right Heyooooooo #tiredKevinSmithFatJokeTrend

Not that he didn't have the money, but that it is basically putting his money where his mouth is, right? (unless it's just that it's not studio money, and that he got lots of independent investors...). He was passionate enough to finally get it going. As I said, I never thought he'd do it. So that's a big bump up from my perspective.

And the prospect of him working with actors like Michael Parks and giving him a lead role (I'm assuming) does make me optimistic. Not about the final film, maybe, since that remains to be seen. It's just that I'm actively curious about how it'll turn out now. Cop Out... I couldn't give a shit.

I fail to see how this is a good thing, or something one should brag about.

I'm going to remain cautious, but hopeful, in regards to Red State.

That said, Smith's already started up his victim complex on twitter regarding critics. Acting like he's treated unfairly by "the media" and reacting like a 4 year old is really off-putting and makes it hard to want to root for him.

That, and Cop Out.

Hahahaha, I can't believe I'm coming across like a Smith defender now...

It's just an early cut. Something that'll need to be fine-tuned. The way I'm choosing to interpret it is that Smith is working full tilt. I'm reading that he shot the film digitally, which makes an early cut like that possible.

I can't imagine that it was a particularly long shoot.

He's made a single good movie, 13 years ago.

There hasn't been a single point in his career where shifting into horror would be an obvious or commercial move, and given that he's been pushing to get this specific project off the ground for years I have to assume it's something he feels strongly about making. I'll always have respect for someone failing in an attempt to push themselves creatively over someone failing out of laziness or disinterest. It's a gamble that might not pay off, but either way the result should have a bit of intrigue about it, for once.

I was a Smith defender for a long time. I still feel the pinch to jump into the fray arms swinging. And I'm happy that he *seems* to be making a movie outside his comfort zone.

But the jury's way fucking out on this one, and until I see it or people I trust see it and like it, I am not going to have an opinion one way or another.

Also, am I the only one who thinks the poster even looks terrible?

I see all of you saying, "well, if it has just a bit of the atmosphere of that poster..." and I just don't get it.

It looks like shit.

My concern is that he doesn't have experience outside of his own stuff. He's wasted his career in that way. Why would a Kevin Smith horror movie be worth anything when he's shown no kind of gift for the tools required to be a great horror director?

That's fair, but I can't help but be super cynical about the move. Again, another way of looking at this is he's stepping outside his comfort zone because no one is interested in his comfort zone anymore. And think about how long it took him to even realize THAT.

This is a definite step into new territory, I'll give you that. Considering how much horror depends on tone, atmosphere, and an understanding of the language of cinema, one wouldn't be amiss wondering how good an idea this step into new territory is.

Trying to get the project off the ground for years, and then funding it himself, is indeed a bona fide display of Smith's conviction. So too was his public relations war with Southwest Airlines. Smith's never been much for letting something go (please enjoy his Twitter for lines and lines of proof), so him feeling passionate about anything isn't cause for optimism. And I think that's on him.

This made me laugh. A pertinent point.

Can we all agree that Fred Pelphs needs to be mocked?

Not sure on the exact casting but making some assumptions, isn't putting John Goodman as a conservative in this a bit of a ripoff of his West Wing role as well? I'll be interested to see how bad this fails (especially as a tituarly divisive 'horror' flick).

I hate defending Smith, because he's a bad filmmaker, and I have no problem skipping the movies he makes that don't interest me (Cop Out, Jersey Girl). But I'm familiar enough with his filmography to definitely be seeing this. I don't really care whether it's good or bad, because it will almost certainly be interesting.

But then, I don't get too worked up over whether I'm going to see something or not. At the end of the day, it's not like my time is that important. I'll watch any damn thing once.

Based on the casting, I'd see Parks in the Fred Phelps role before Goodman.

True (I endured Carnival Magic yesterday), and I'll probably check this out, but at this point in Smith's career, I have zero expectations when it comes to his work.

Did anyone else (beside the Talkbackers) think my "rarely have any use for his films" line was arrogant trash? It wasn't meant that way - only I don't like any of his movies. Just curious if it came across to real people that way.

Nope, just came off as being honest. But then, I agree with you, so maybe I'm biased.

You gonna start tweeting all goddamn day about what the talkbackers think, Steve? Maybe just for a week, as a kind of performance installation.

Mallrats? Mallrats is still the only Smith film I can revisit and enjoy.

I don't know if you dudes have revisited Chasing Amy recently, but it's pretty awful. It's difficult to watch, just for the camera work alone.

I'll see this. Smith is the kind of guy I'd never expect this sort of film from; the fact that he's actually getting it made, and that he hasn't just been bullshitting for the last few years about Red State, is enough to get me interested. Couple that with the fact that this is way outside what I consider to be Smith's wheelhouse and I don't see any reason not to at least consider checking it out.

Maybe it's because I skim pretty fast, but I didn't catch it that way at all until I read the talkbacks. Only then could I see how someone could think of it as arrogant.

Chasing Amy is a good movie. The rest range from passable to awful.

I kinda like parts of "Clerks II," especially the way it ends as a callback to the original; I also still laugh really hard at the "Silence of the Lambs" homage. Smith has made a few movies that I really liked when I was younger, particularly his first two, but they don't hold up. "Chasing Amy" has a lot more heart to it, even if it's overly sappy and heavy-handed. It's still his best example of writing naturalistic dialogue, and the only one I enjoy rewatching on occasion. I genuinely enjoy the conversations they have in that movie the most,. But he's really gone down the crapper over the years. The last 20 minutes of "Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back" aren't nearly as funny as I thought it was when it first came out and "Zack & Miri" didn't do much for me at all. I want to cheer on for the guy though because I love his podcast(s). I remain cautiously optimistic about "Red State"

CLERKS was hip and original and somewhat clever in its time. Doesn't hold up all that great, but I think the shoddy filmmaking and worse-than-amateurish acting is more to blame for that than the script.

MALLRATS is an awful movie made eminently watchable by Jason Lee, who's practically a revelation in it. Affleck being a total douche still cracks me up, too.

CHASING AMY is fantastic ... except for the shitty, nonsensical last 20 minutes. ("Yeah, a three-way! That's the ticket! That's gonna fix everything!")

Based on this thread, I'd say DOGMA is Kevin Smith's most underrated movie. It's seemingly directed by a retarded monkey and somewhat bloated, yet Smith's dialogue and kooky religious/fantasy/roadtrip mishmash plotting still end up making it a mostly enjoyable experience. Oh, and Rickman and Rock are fine in it. It's Fiorentino who's terrible. (What the hell happened to her, BTW?)

JAY & SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK was crap when it was released. And it's crap now. Totally unbearable.

JERSEY GIRL is treacly bullshit ... but still a million times better than J&SBSB.

I'll say it: I like CLERKS 2. Well, actually, I like some of CLERKS 2. That Elias character is terrible, and the donkey show segment is embarrassing. But Rosario Dawson expertly delivers Smith's dialogue while looking hot as hell in the process. Randall is still a hoot. And the "ABC" musical number may be the most visually appealing thing Smith has ever shot. (Not too difficult an order, I realize.)

ZACK AND MIRI MAKE A PORNO is agreeable. Banks is radiant. Long and Routh are hilarious in the time they get. Tyler Labine cracks me up as the drunk, idiot Yinzer. (Hey, I live in Pittsburgh, whattdya want?)

I haven't seen COP OUT. I probably never will unless it comes on HBO one night when I'm too drunk to find my Xbox controller.

I liked DOGMA but didn't love it. The same with CLERKS 2 in that it had really great elements, but really dumb ones too. The shit monster & the donkey show are laugh-free travesties that should've been nixed and left as deleted scenes.

CHASING AMY's last 20 minutes have always bothered everyone, especially my female friends. I can totally understand the argument, but it didn't really bother me as much despite knowing why it didn't make sense. WHY would Holden decide that a threesome was the solution after talking with Silent Bob? It made no sense, and seemed completely out of character. All it would've taken is a rewrite of the confrontation/intervention scene between Banky, Holden, and Alyssa. I guess one can chalk it up to "Guys are dumb & impulsive, and have no idea how to repair broken relationships," but coming after Silent Bob's speech... it KILLED the payoff at the end. The only movie that I've seen to really portray that idea of a threesome as a "good" thing, is the movie THREESOME, which I really really liked when it came out. That glaring flaw aside, I still really like CHASING AMY quite a bit.